Is Algebra Necessary?

by Rishi Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:02 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:08 am

Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0

what a prize idiot!

by Rishi Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:49 am

[quote="MaxEntropy_Man"][quote="Rishi"]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0[/quote]what a prize idiot![/quote]>>>> Andrew Hacker is a well known political scientist. He has written books on social inequalty which has received great reviews. I think he raises valid points. Requiring top scores in math for admission to majors which really do not require rigorous math skills does not make sense. Why on earth someone wishing to major in Social work or dance at Yale required to score 700 on math portion of the SAT?

What do you say about his following claim?

[i][b]Many colleges seek to raise their status by setting a high mathematics bar. Hence, they look for 700 on the math section of the SAT, a height attained in 2009 by only 9 percent of men and 4 percent of women[/b]. And it’s not just Ivy League colleges that do this: at schools like Vanderbilt, Rice and Washington University in St. Louis, applicants had best be legacies or athletes if they have scored less than 700 on their math SATs. [/i]

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:17 am

i fundamentally disagree with him. mathematics is as fundamental to a person's education as language. i can say a lot more about this, but maybe later.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:29 am

this guy was born in 1929. it's possible senility is setting in.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:38 am

about the only sensible prescription in the whole article is this:

I hope that mathematics departments can also create courses in the history and philosophy of their discipline, as well as its applications in early cultures. Why not mathematics in art and music — even poetry — along with its role in assorted sciences? The aim would be to treat mathematics as a liberal art, making it as accessible and welcoming as sculpture or ballet. If we rethink how the discipline is conceived, word will get around and math enrollments are bound to rise. It can only help. Of the 1.7 million bachelor’s degrees awarded in 2010, only 15,396 — less than 1 percent — were in mathematics.

i am slowly working through this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Mathematical-Offering-Dave-Benson/dp/0521619998

by Seva Lamberdar Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:54 am

The main problem with this article is its headline "is algebra necessary?" The moment a person sees the headline he thinks that the author probably is talking about needlessness of algebra itself as a subject (and not its importance in college admissions etc.) Perhaps the headline needs to change.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:54 am

Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0

It is not like Calculus and Complex Variables are being forced on everyone. Heck simple algebra...

No one is expecting students to master it but to pass and have "sufficient" knowledge.

So if 40 and 50% of "white" students fail should the subject itself be removed?

If Cali's premium Univ and other big schools demand algebra, then there are hundreds of other univ.

Besides, I am sure even more students fail history and geography, English, writing, music.... Heck 90% of americans may not know how to sing their national anthem. So the number that fail in math is similar to the numbers that fail other subjects.

When Engineers, Business, and medical guys are required to study singing and dancing, yapping and philosophizing, what is wrong in everyone learning a little algebra. Does anyone know what they will need later in life?

What is needed is reform any subject to suit the interests of the students. It is quite common to see math and physics teachers/professors just going through the routine without first convincing the students of the importance of the subjects right in the beginning.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:It is quite common to see math and physics teachers/professors just going through the routine without first convincing the students of the importance of the subjects right in the beginning.

this convincing business is carried a bit too far in the american high school system. sometimes you just have to build a minimum background to even see the need for some math and science concepts. i struggle with this with young people. the need for convincing seems especially acute only in math and science, but not for literature, history etc. their already gnat like attention span has only gotten worse with the profusion of hand held electronics.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:05 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:It is quite common to see math and physics teachers/professors just going through the routine without first convincing the students of the importance of the subjects right in the beginning.
this convincing business is carried a bit too far in the american high school system. sometimes you just have to build a minimum background to even see the need for some math and science concepts. i struggle with this with young people. the need for convincing seems especially acute only in math and science, but not for literature, history etc. their already gnat like attention span has only gotten worse with the profusion of hand held electronics.

yes...the gospel-like electronic gadgets and anything that comes out of it MUST be correct is the ultimate sign of an absence of common sense. Ask how many students in your class are taking your class...very few will give you the answer that they are interested in the subject and how. The students need to be bought into the subject to make them interested. Why the subject will help in whatever they are interested in.

Anyway...my 2 cents based on the good/bad teachers I have had in my life.

by Kris Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:43 pm

Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0

>>>Ah, but there is a silver lining here. Do away with math altogether. This could go two ways. Johnny can then be told about the big bad foreigners who are taking away his jobs. Alternatively, there could be more articles be written in that genre that has come into vogue over the past couple of decades extolling America's forte- yes folks- 'service' industries- the one that involves selling hamburgers and making beer commercials, not to mention bubble wrapping and pretty green and red gift wrapping paper.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:54 pm

Kris wrote:
Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0
>>>Ah, but there is a silver lining here. Do away with math altogether. This could go two ways. Johnny can then be told about the big bad foreigners who are taking away his jobs. Alternatively, there could be more articles be written in that genre that has come into vogue over the past couple of decades extolling America's forte- yes folks- 'service' industries- the one that involves selling hamburgers and making beer commercials, not to mention bubble wrapping and pretty green and red gift wrapping paper.

In fact...doing away with math, science will "graduate
" more white kids who will be good to become great excutives - occupying vantage positions.

The desis, Chinkus and the Kims will excel in Math and Physicis - school or no school - and occupy and stay permanently in all nerdy jobs running the country and providing its fuel for growth.

Great formula indeed....to find a role for each class of people and achieve the American dream.

by ashdoc Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:52 pm

The word algebra is based on the arabic/muslim word al-jabr . If we don't give it it's necessarry importance the seculars will get angry .

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:21 pm

Kris wrote:
Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0
>>>Ah, but there is a silver lining here. Do away with math altogether. This could go two ways. Johnny can then be told about the big bad foreigners who are taking away his jobs. Alternatively, there could be more articles be written in that genre that has come into vogue over the past couple of decades extolling America's forte- yes folks- 'service' industries- the one that involves selling hamburgers and making beer commercials, not to mention bubble wrapping and pretty green and red gift wrapping paper.

+1

by southindian Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm

Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0

Rishi, nothing is necessary. Only air and water is.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:10 pm

southindian wrote:
Rishi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=0
Rishi, nothing is necessary. Only air and water is.

so profound yAr!

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