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feynman on philosophers

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:06 pm

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:08 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/what-physics-learns-from-philosophy.html
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Post by Hellsangel Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:09 pm

Ha ha ha!
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:54 pm

feynman on philosophers Schrodinger-fc_op_599x800

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

he is criticizing philosophical idealism; he is not criticizing philosophy.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:59 pm

schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.

it is scientific philosophy. the content of the book has an overlap with science and philosophy.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:08 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.

it is scientific philosophy. the content of the book has an overlap with science and philosophy.

here is the book which i have read:

http://whatislife.stanford.edu/LoCo_files/What-is-Life.pdf

i did a cntrl-f on the word philosophy. nada.

do you have a different version?
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.

it is scientific philosophy. the content of the book has an overlap with science and philosophy.

here is the book which i have read:

http://whatislife.stanford.edu/LoCo_files/What-is-Life.pdf

i did a cntrl-f on the word philosophy. nada.

do you have a different version?

do a cntrl-f on the word 'philosophical'.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:21 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.

it is scientific philosophy. the content of the book has an overlap with science and philosophy.

here is the book which i have read:

http://whatislife.stanford.edu/LoCo_files/What-is-Life.pdf

i did a cntrl-f on the word philosophy. nada.

do you have a different version?

do a cntrl-f on the word 'philosophical'.

alright there is an epilogue where he has waxed philosophical. i grant you that. but in a detailed book in which he elegantly describes the thermodynamic and statistical mechanical underpinnings of life, there is a short epilogue where he has introspected philosophically. that hardly qualifies it as a philosophy book. in fact he is almost apologetic about adding that section. see this quote:

As a reward for the serious trouble I have taken
to expound the purely scientific aspects of our
problem sine ira et studio, I beg leave to add my
own, necessarily subjective, view of the
philosophical implications.

i didn't remember that section because i must have fallen asleep reading it.
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:schrodinger's book is hardly a philosophical tract. he explains his view of how biology works, a physicist's view of biology. it is an absorbing read.

it is scientific philosophy. the content of the book has an overlap with science and philosophy.

here is the book which i have read:

http://whatislife.stanford.edu/LoCo_files/What-is-Life.pdf

i did a cntrl-f on the word philosophy. nada.

do you have a different version?

do a cntrl-f on the word 'philosophical'.

alright there is an epilogue where he has waxed philosophical. i grant you that. but in a detailed book in which he elegantly describes the thermodynamic and statistical mechanical underpinnings of life, there is a short epilogue where he has introspected philosophically. that hardly qualifies it as a philosophy book. in fact he is almost apologetic about adding that section. see this quote:

As a reward for the serious trouble I have taken
to expound the purely scientific aspects of our
problem sine ira et studio, I beg leave to add my
own, necessarily subjective, view of the
philosophical implications.

i didn't remember that section because i must have fallen asleep reading it.

Schrodinger's philosophical views are important because he is basing those views on his great scientific knowledge. Now personally i think although Schrodinger was a brilliant scientist, he was a mediocre philosopher. (He seems to have been an Advaita Vedantist.) I brought him up because i know you would respect him even though you may not agree with him. A more detailed exposition of Schrodinger's philosophical views are given in this book:

http://www.amazon.com/My-View-World-Erwin-Schrodinger/dp/0918024307/ref=la_B000APE8SK_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389217064&sr=1-4

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:01 pm

Werner Heisenberg, of the Uncertainty Principle fame, on Quantum Mechanics and the philosopher Wittgenstein:



This is a great video because you get to hear Heisenberg in person. Max, your comments?
Notice that Heisenberg says he liked the later Wittgenstein while he says Bertrand Russel used to like the early Wittgenstein.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:12 pm

look out for the word 'philosophical' again:


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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:15 pm

Rashmun wrote:Werner Heisenberg, of the Uncertainty Principle fame, on Quantum Mechanics and the philosopher Wittgenstein:



This is a great video because you get to hear Heisenberg in person. Max, your comments?
Notice that Heisenberg says he liked the later Wittgenstein while he says Bertrand Russel used to like the early Wittgenstein.

check out the table of contents of this book by Heisenberg:

http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Philosophy-Revolution-Modern-Science/dp/0061209198/ref=pd_sim_b_5

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:39 pm

Looks like many if not most top 20th century scientists had a predilection for philosophy. Here is another one:

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophical-Writings-Niels-Bohr-Vol/dp/0918024544/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389224266&sr=8-4&keywords=neils+bohr+philosophy

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:59 pm

i think most scientists have their own view of the world informed by their experiences in the natural sciences and interactions with the laws of the physical world. certainly that is interesting to read about. however, an enquiry into the nature of the universe by people who are not scientists is uninteresting and insipid to me. i am not a physicist, but work in a closely related field.  i share the churlish attitude of some physicists mentioned in the NYT article towards philosophers i linked to in an earlier post. philosophers probably need scientists. scientists certainly do not need philosophers or philosophy.
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i think most scientists have their own view of the world informed by their experiences in the natural sciences and interactions with the laws of the physical world. certainly that is interesting to read about. however, an enquiry into the nature of the universe by people who are not scientists is uninteresting and insipid to me. i am not a physicist, but work in a closely related field.  i share the churlish attitude of some physicists mentioned in the NYT article towards philosophers i linked to in an earlier post. philosophers probably need scientists. scientists certainly do not need philosophers or philosophy.

often one finds that a scientist makes for a poor philosopher. when i say poor philosopher i mean he subscribes to some variation of philosophical idealism (the world is ultimately unreal, it is only ideas that are real and not the exterior world, etc.). For instance Advaita Vedanta is positively hostile to science since it says the world is ultimately unreal, and denies the law of causality (by denying the reality of the effect), and is hostile to logic and logical deduction and induction. And yet we find Schrodinger supporting such a philosophy because it appears he had some kind of penchant for mysticism.

if a philosopher is not a working scientist but he subscribes to a philosophy which draws support from science and promotes science then i support such a philosopher.

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Post by bw Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:48 pm

i like philosophers and scientists and enjoy both (not the sadguru brand that spews nonsense)

i enjoyed watching/listening to alain de botton's "a guide to happiness" series. 

here's one episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7cgIg4Lfs

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Post by Guest Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:06 am

bw wrote:i like philosophers and scientists and enjoy both (not the sadguru brand that spews nonsense)

i enjoyed watching/listening to alain de botton's "a guide to happiness" series. 

here's one episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7cgIg4Lfs

this seems like a great series. thanks for sharing the video. i wish someone would make a similar series on indian philosophers.

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Post by bw Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:21 am

Rashmun wrote:
bw wrote:i like philosophers and scientists and enjoy both (not the sadguru brand that spews nonsense)

i enjoyed watching/listening to alain de botton's "a guide to happiness" series. 

here's one episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7cgIg4Lfs

this seems like a great series. thanks for sharing the video. i wish someone would make a similar series on indian philosophers.


i like almost all of his talks though some call him a blithe, pop philosopher!

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Post by Guest Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:27 am

bw wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
bw wrote:i like philosophers and scientists and enjoy both (not the sadguru brand that spews nonsense)

i enjoyed watching/listening to alain de botton's "a guide to happiness" series. 

here's one episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7cgIg4Lfs

this seems like a great series. thanks for sharing the video. i wish someone would make a similar series on indian philosophers.


i like almost all of his talks though some call him a blithe, pop philosopher!

He is obviously a little superficial but one forgives him since that is the only way he can reach out to a larger audience.

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