A story of exile and betrayal of a Kashmiri Hindu family

by rawemotions Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:03 am

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/firsthand-account-of-how-a-family-of-pandits-left-kashmir/article6799474.ece

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:17 am

thanks for posting this. the comment section is interesting too:

sheikh mujeeb
Every kashmiri pandit is welcome here in kashmir.we miss you tremendously .we are incomplete without your presence .everyone waiting for your arrival .your arrival is pre- requisite to the spring.

Hussain
Same way some people did that with Kashmiri Pandits. The point is that, as the writer also mentions, Kashmir was a battlefield, a war zone. Pandits should have stayed, they shouldn't have left. Muslim homes were aslso burnt down, sons killed, families erased, that does not mean that Kashmiris should start leaving Kashmir. We the new generation of kashmir want peace, we want kashmir to be restored to its pluralistic nature, we request you to come back. My father's eyes become wet at the mention of his Pandit teachers, which makes me want to respect every Kashmiri pandit I meet (I met few elderly pandits at J&k bank, Prithvi Raj road branch. Their smile towards me was so genuine, so was mine). I don't want the cause of pandits to be taken over by political parties, made into communal issue for vote bank politics. I request the writer to come to Kashmir and see the difference. We will always welcome you!

majid khan
We Kashmiris, particularly I, can understand the pain of Pandits who were forced to leave their motherland. We are with you and will fight until death for the returning of Pandits to Kashmir.

by rawemotions Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:29 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. the comment section is interesting too:

sheikh mujeeb
Every kashmiri pandit is welcome here in kashmir.we miss you tremendously .we are incomplete without your presence .everyone waiting for your arrival .your arrival is pre- requisite to the spring.

Hussain
Same way some people did that with Kashmiri Pandits. The point is that, as the writer also mentions, Kashmir was a battlefield, a war zone. Pandits should have stayed, they shouldn't have left. Muslim homes were aslso burnt down, sons killed, families erased, that does not mean that Kashmiris should start leaving Kashmir. We the new generation of kashmir want peace, we want kashmir to be restored to its pluralistic nature, we request you to come back. My father's eyes become wet at the mention of his Pandit teachers, which makes me want to respect every Kashmiri pandit I meet (I met few elderly pandits at J&k bank, Prithvi Raj road branch. Their smile towards me was so genuine, so was mine). I don't want the cause of pandits to be taken over by political parties, made into communal issue for vote bank politics. I request the writer to come to Kashmir and see the difference. We will always welcome you!

majid khan
We Kashmiris, particularly I, can understand the pain of Pandits who were forced to leave their motherland. We are with you and will fight until death for the returning of Pandits to Kashmir.

a) Why did you choose to ignore a comment by Mr Qazi ? Just because a few fellows say something good, does not mean that every body else ignores Political Islam.
b) Who were the ones who made the ethnic cleansing part of the political issue in the first place ?
c) If they care so much for their brethen, why are they opposing them coming back and living together in one place for security ?
d) If Muslims can live in Juhapura in Ahmedabad and ghettos in many other cities , why can't the Hindus do the same in Kashmir (especially when they victims of vicious ethnically cleansing)?
e) How does it matter what path they took to for their own religious pilgrimages, if they are from J&K? Why do the Muslims create problems there ?
f) Mr Geelani openly states that Muslims cannot live with Non-Muslims, and he has the muscle power in the valley. Are you denying this ?

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:42 am

rawemotions wrote:
a) Why did you choose to ignore a comment by Mr Qazi ? Just because a few fellows say something good, does not mean that every body else ignores Political Islam.

because there is plenty of highlighting of that sort of commentary on this board and not enough highlighting of the commentary of moderate voices. isn't the cry here always that there are no moderate voices? well here they are. the qazi type comments are pointed out day in and day out by you and others. it's healthy to have a balance.

rawemotions wrote:
b) Who were the ones who made the ethnic cleansing part of the political issue in the first place ?

nobody said that all kashmiri muslims are the salt of the earth, but they are not a monolithic bunch. and the role of cross-border terrorism and the indian army cannot be ignored.

rawemotions wrote:c) If they care so much for their brethen, why are they opposing them coming back and living together in one place for security ?

didn't the comments i highlighted wish for just that?

rawemotions wrote:d) If Muslims can live in Juhapura in Ahmedabad and ghettos in many other cities , why can't the Hindus do the same in Kashmir (especially when they victims of vicious ethnically cleansing)?
e) How does it matter what path they took to for their own religious pilgrimages, if they are from J&K? Why do the Muslims create problems there ?
f) Mr Geelani openly states that Muslims cannot live with Non-Muslims, and he has the muscle power in the valley. Are you denying this ?

i have never denied that a lot of the problems in kashmir can be attributed to voices like geelani, but kashmiri muslims are not a monolithic lot. on the one hand you guys complain that there are no moderate muslims, and when i picked out the voices of moderate muslims from the comment section, you choose to ignore them. what gives?

let's try it this way. of the four obviously muslim commenters on this article, three were sympathetic to the pundits' plight. that's 75%. do you think that gives a lie to the general claim that the majority of muslims don't want to live with hindus?

by rawemotions Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:08 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

b) Who were the ones who made the ethnic cleansing part of the political issue in the first place ?

nobody said that all kashmiri muslims are the salt of the earth, but they are not a monolithic bunch. and the role of cross-border terrorism and the indian army cannot be ignored.

What do you mean role by Indian Army? If Indian Army had not been there, even those who escaped would have been murdered. They did not rush there for the willingly. If the Pakistani Political Islamists and their local perpetrators, did not indulge in ethnic cleansing, and if an incompetent centre (congress government) did not goof up, there would not be a need for Army in the towns of J&K. The J&K governments were also corrupt and non-performing. But please note the administration always used to discriminate against Jammu and Ladakh.

If you put 600,000 troops among a small area, among a civilian populations shelters terrorists, how does an Army know who is bad and good? Mistakes happen. For someone in this situation, the Indian Army has done much better compared to other Armies in similar situations. Their rules of engagement are superior, fine tuned, and well thought out, and they kept in adapting. No professional army in the world have undergone the massive set of changes they have undergone in such a small time. They have vast experience in handling the kind of Islamic Terrorism emanating from Pakistan in that region. They went out of the way to start sadbhavana schools. It is atrocious for you to comment without understanding what is involved

rawemotions wrote:d) If Muslims can live in Juhapura in Ahmedabad and ghettos in many other cities , why can't the Hindus do the same in Kashmir (especially when they victims of vicious ethnically cleansing)?
e) How does it matter what path they took to for their own religious pilgrimages, if they are from J&K? Why do the Muslims create problems there ?
f) Mr Geelani openly states that Muslims cannot live with Non-Muslims, and he has the muscle power in the valley. Are you denying this ?

i have never denied that a lot of the problems in kashmir can be attributed to voices like geelani, but kashmiri muslims are not a monolithic lot. on the one hand you guys complain that there are no moderate muslims, and when i picked out the voices of moderate muslims from the comment section, you choose to ingore them. what gives?

[/quote]

Hussain is a Shia. So his comment is expected. It is well know that Shias , Dogras, Gujjars, Ladakhi Buddhists do not have any problem with Hindus. I do not need half-baked and mis-understood lecture from you on what I and many others have been saying. I have always stated that Political Islamist (allegedly Ashrafi) Sunni Muslim leadership, all Ulemas and their cohorts in Pakistan perpetrated the ethnic cleansing. But this does NOT absolve the common people from standing up for what is right.
I have never stated that Sunni Muslims do not have moderates. But the issue is that Muslim moderates are NOT able to counter the extremists, because they quote verses from their holy books. This makes them a silent accessory to any atrocity committed by extremists. It is all right for these guys to write something now. But the point is all Sunni Muslims including youths kept quiet when ethnic cleansing was committed. Why ? It is because parts of their religious dogma (Political Islamist ) sanctions ethnic cleansing. Do you deny this ? The truth is that Ulema have a problem with secularism. It is an undeniable fact. Sunni Muslims in India (even when they are in a majority), need to reconcile true secularism with the Islamist portions of their religious dogma and learn to separate Faith of Islam from Political/Jihadi Islam and put Ulema in their place. That is the true issue here.

rawemotions wrote:c) If they care so much for their brethen, why are they opposing them coming back and living together in one place for security ?

didn't the comments i highlighted wish for just that?
>> It is clear from your own response that you are ignorant of the issue I am talking about in my question. Read what I wrote carefully. Do some research before writing arbitrary stuff here.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:24 pm

when you're done frothing at the mouth and blabbering incoherently, we'll talk. i'll wait.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:45 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. the comment section is interesting too:

sheikh mujeeb
Every kashmiri pandit is welcome here in kashmir.we miss you tremendously .we are incomplete without your presence .everyone waiting for your arrival .your arrival is pre- requisite to the spring.

Hussain
Same way some people did that with Kashmiri Pandits. The point is that, as the writer also mentions, Kashmir was a battlefield, a war zone. Pandits should have stayed, they shouldn't have left. Muslim homes were aslso burnt down, sons killed, families erased, that does not mean that Kashmiris should start leaving Kashmir. We the new generation of kashmir want peace, we want kashmir to be restored to its pluralistic nature, we request you to come back. My father's eyes become wet at the mention of his Pandit teachers, which makes me want to respect every Kashmiri pandit I meet (I met few elderly pandits at J&k bank, Prithvi Raj road branch. Their smile towards me was so genuine, so was mine). I don't want the cause of pandits to be taken over by political parties, made into communal issue for vote bank politics. I request the writer to come to Kashmir and see the difference. We will always welcome you!

majid khan
We Kashmiris, particularly I, can understand the pain of Pandits who were forced to leave their motherland. We are with you and will fight until death for the returning of Pandits to Kashmir.

Lemme guess: these must be the real, moderate muslims who stood aside and clapped when their uniSlamic islamic terrorist brethren cleansed the Pandits, while occupying their homes and land.

Now that they have impressed the Pseudo-iSlamis and the moderate hindus with their lip service they can go back to Pandit Cleansing.

by rawemotions Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when you're done frothing at the mouth and blabbering incoherently, we'll talk. i'll wait.

If you do not have the guts to respond my points then say so, and we will call it a day. Just because you make some stupid statements, does not make them right. I am not going to fall into your trap of (mis) characterization of my response and defending it etc..

You seem to be ignorant about the issues, making sweeping generalizations. If you do not have enough background knowledge about the issues I am talking about, just stop posting stuff! It will be easy on everybody.

by confuzzled dude Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:03 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when you're done frothing at the mouth and blabbering incoherently, we'll talk. i'll wait.
If you do not have the guts to respond my points then say so, and we will call it a day. Just because you make some stupid statements, does not make them right. I am not going to fall into your trap of (mis) characterization of my response and defending it etc..

You seem to be ignorant about the issues, making sweeping generalizations. If you do not have enough background knowledge about the issues I am talking about, just stop posting stuff! It will be easy on everybody.

Hero! You are some sort of authority on this issue or what? If a naxal gang shows up with guns to kill a few in your village would you confront them with your bare-breast and tell them over my dead body i.e do a Kerala-kesari? It is easy point fingers at others until you're faced with a similar situation. Secondly, 9 out of 10 times, you tend to lose your temper first, in any discussion; that tells much about you and we all are well aware of your biases and insecurities so do us a favor and stop spouting nonsense.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:16 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Lemme guess: these must be the real, moderate muslims who stood aside and clapped when their uniSlamic islamic terrorist brethren cleansed the Pandits, while occupying their homes and land.

Now that they have impressed the Pseudo-iSlamis and the moderate hindus with their lip service they can go back to Pandit Cleansing.

quit playing this doublespeak game. you start by asking where the moderate muslim voices are. when someone points them out you immediately give them some silly label - pseudo-islami (whatever the fuck that means) or a moderate hindu or whatever, and then go back to your usual carping. in that case quit whining about the lack of moderate muslim voices and just admit that you get your jollies by constantly carping.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Lemme guess: these must be the real, moderate muslims who stood aside and clapped when their uniSlamic islamic terrorist brethren cleansed the Pandits, while occupying their homes and land.

Now that they have impressed the Pseudo-iSlamis and the moderate hindus with their lip service they can go back to Pandit Cleansing.

quit playing this doublespeak game. you start by asking where the moderate muslim voices are. when someone points them out you immediately give them some silly label - pseudo-islami (whatever the fuck that means) or a moderate hindu or whatever, and then go back to your usual carping. in that case quit whining about the lack of moderate muslim voices and just admit that you get your jollies by constantly ~~carping~~ limpwristedly breastbeating *fixed*.

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