Reddit vs. Forumotion -- please VOTE by Monday, May 2nd

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:42 pm

I am leaving for the evening, but before I go, I want to set up a poll. Please vote. And use this thread to discuss the relative merits and demerits of both forums.

My quick summary: Forumotion wins for me because of its interface, features and reliability. It isn't perfect -- it gives the admin too much power, and it doesn't have a collapsible nested view for threads. To address the former, I have stated my commitment to not actively moderate the site. There is no addressing the latter; we just need to get used to it (I've used forums like these and you can get used to them.)

Reddit loses me with its outages, entry barriers for new posters (and human verifications for established users), and the need to keep track of the number of comments in order to know whether there is anything new to read.

Here are my thoughts after spending a few hours with Reddit.

Platform	Like	Dislike
Reddit	Nesting feature (+ and - to collapse and expand) Formatting notation for quoting and bulleting Limited admin powers No email address requirement to sign-up Timestamp is more intuitive ("2 mins go")	Wait times for posting new threads Human verification for posting new threads Very difficult to figure out which threads have new comments you haven't read yet Random order of threads and posts Formatting notations for everything else Bare-bones user interface (what you see is not what you get) Not being a stand-alone forum with its own userbase Frequent "reddit is under heavy load" outages Clicking on the thread title takes you straight to the external content rather than the thread Difficult for new users because of wait times Users can delete their posts, even after someone has replied!
Forumotion	Visually appealing user interface Good main page, easy to see which threads have new comments to be read Self-contained community; users have to explicitly sign up for CH to post on CH Full-featured editor with draft and preview features Embedding of images and videos	More admin powers Difficult-to-use admin interface (affects me only) Inability to collapse / expand sub-threads

by Guest Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:40 pm

both the sites are less flashier than sulekha, hence not so bad to bring up at work... almost can pass for a techie forum.

what's the deal if our jlf flips out and began posting adult videos? do we have a disclaimer in place? 18+ only... or exclusion of videos/pictures from certain websites? I know, very sophisticated demand seeing where we are coming from but still, doesn't hurt to ask.

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:43 pm

Tracy Whitney wrote:both the sites are less flashier than sulekha, hence not so bad to bring up at work... almost can pass for a techie forum.

what's the deal if our jlf flips out and began posting adult videos? do we have a disclaimer in place? 18+ only... or exclusion of videos/pictures from certain websites? I know, very sophisticated demand seeing where we are coming from but still, doesn't hurt to ask.

I don't want this to be a NSFW site. I will turn on the user reporting feature. This will enable readers to flag bad posts.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:06 pm

I suggest a "Work-Group Forum" (note the hyphen), where all the "educational/recreational" videos/pics can be posted.

I suspect Charvaka is a little biased towards this site. What about other sites?

by Admin Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:07 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I suggest a "Work-Group Forum" (note the hyphen), where all the "educational/recreational" videos/pics can be posted.

I suspect Charvaka is a little biased towards this site. What about other sites?

Right now, I like this site more than Reddit. I spent a lot of time with Reddit, but I still can't get used to it.

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:56 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I suggest a "Work-Group Forum" (note the hyphen), where all the "educational/recreational" videos/pics can be posted.

I suspect Charvaka is a little biased towards this site. What about other sites?

LOL! I am frankly biased towards Reddit. I like all the features this site has that Reddit doesn't have. But there are reasons for my bias that are quite strong:

1. Reddit's tree-like comment structure that is very conducive to large-scale discussions. We have not had huge mega threads on the new forums yet, but when we do, it will be a nightmare to navigate on this forum. Reddit will be much easier.

2. Reddit's anonymity and freedom that is similar to Sulekha, with almost no powers extra powers for moderator. You can post all kinds of content there. In fact, there are sub-forums on Reddit exclusively for adult content.

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:01 pm

Admin wrote:Right now, I like this site more than Reddit. I spent a lot of time with Reddit, but I still can't get used to it.

Sometimes the only way to get used to a site or software's look and feel is to spend a day or two exclusively on it. After that, you won't even remember why you couldn't get it in the first place. Had plenty of such experiences with new software at work.

That is the reason why I suggest that we use each forum exclusively for a couple of days, before making final discussion. Use it in full-fledged mode, posting all kinds of content like we normally did on Sulekha and exercise all the available features.

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:10 pm

SomeProfile wrote:
Admin wrote:Right now, I like this site more than Reddit. I spent a lot of time with Reddit, but I still can't get used to it.

Sometimes the only way to get used to a site or software's look and feel is to spend a day or two exclusively on it. After that, you won't even remember why you couldn't get it in the first place. Had plenty of such experiences with new software at work.

That is the reason why I suggest that we use each forum exclusively for a couple of days, before making final discussion. Use it in full-fledged mode, posting all kinds of content like we normally did on Sulekha and exercise all the available features.

A couple of irritants get in the way of making it my exclusive for today.

Human verification for threads (I sometimes have to make 3-4 attempts before I succeed in verifying that I am a human -- yeah, I know!)
Lack of indication on main page about which threads have new posts.
Frequent outages

That second one really makes it very difficult to use, even to read what others are posting. I tried the enhancement suite, but it crashed by Firefox (I think I upgraded to 4.0.1 and the suite isn't yet compatible or something.)

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:13 pm

I agree to some extent. Looks like one cannot reply to a specific post somewhere in the middle of a thread. All replies get queued at the end. So one might wonder who the response is addressed to. In a a long thread that is almost impossible to figure out.

For this reason we might keep the longest thread here to test its versatility.

by Guest Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:16 pm

SP, you are thinking in terms of a long discussion.. most of the users, if they are like me, are in the habit of refreshing the page maybe 2-3 times in 1-2 hours, and checking out what was posted new either in that thread, or in general, and most of them follow more than 3-5 threads at a time... Hence would like something that can quickly indicate this to them/us... in sulekha, it was pretty simplistic, and easy that you could sort it by latest posts... here, it's more personalized in that it remembers what you read last, and also sorts the threads by latest timestamp of new posts...

if you click on the red button, you get straight to the new discussion, and since it's linear in time, with the option of users retianing the post that they are answering, this may decrease the latency while doing quick browsing...

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:21 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:For this reason we might keep the longest thread here to test its versatility.

The longest here so far was the hahaha thread. Let's go to that thread and post a bunch of responses, and keep it going to a thousand posts or so. That would be your typical long thread by CH standards.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:32 pm

Please ask Rashmun to start a thread on Akbar. That will test the site to the max.

Or try one on Syrian Christians.

Any site that can handle these two topics without glitches is an automatic winner.

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:40 pm

charvaka wrote:The longest here so far was the hahaha thread. Let's go to that thread and post a bunch of responses, and keep it going to a thousand posts or so. That would be your typical long thread by CH standards.

The number of responses is actually a secondary issue. I have seen message boards like this where a single thread runs to 30+ or 50+ pages. There is no doubt that the forum can handle that. But this non-tree format has a way of making the most recent response become the most prominent. So, the discussion will usually continue along the lines of the most recent responses. After a while, you won't even be able to spot interesting sub-threads or comments that are stuck in the middle of the thread. It is like looking at a tree from above - you will always see the branches and leaves on the outer edges. The ones in the middle will be obscured. Like TW said in a previous response on this thread, this format encourages her style of browsing - check the latest comments and respond to those.

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:42 pm

SomeProfile wrote:
charvaka wrote:The longest here so far was the hahaha thread. Let's go to that thread and post a bunch of responses, and keep it going to a thousand posts or so. That would be your typical long thread by CH standards.

The number of responses is actually a secondary issue. I have seen message boards like this where a single thread runs to 30+ or 50+ pages. There is no doubt that the forum can handle that. But this non-tree format has a way of making the most recent response become the most prominent. So, the discussion will usually continue along the lines of the most recent responses. After a while, you won't even be able to spot interesting sub-threads or comments that are stuck in the middle of the thread. It is like looking at a tree from above - you will always see the branches and leaves on the outer edges. The ones in the middle will be obscured. Like TW said in a previous response on this thread, this format encourages her style of browsing - check the latest comments and respond to those.

This is true. I do like reddit's tree structure better. I wish there was a way to combine that with the visual cues in this platform!

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:47 pm

Tracy Whitney wrote:SP, you are thinking in terms of a long discussion..

I am actually thinking in terms of topics that have many threads or branches of discussions. Like imagine a thread by TS in which Gupte, Daruwala, SP and few others have participated. You come in the next morning and read it. On Sulekha, there was a clear branching that showed each back-and-forth dialog between TS and Gupte, TS and Daruwala, TS and SP. You could read the progression of the dialog without getting lost. On a forum like this, all the posts will be shown in chronological order the next morning. You cannot really make out which post was in response to which. The quoting functionality is of limited use here... too many embedded quotes look ugly and confusing. Quoting a single previous response is not adequate. I hope you get my drift.

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:49 pm

charvaka wrote:Human verification for threads (I sometimes have to make 3-4 attempts before I succeed in verifying that I am a human -- yeah, I know!)

That is surprising. Is it your monitor or browser? Or have you gotten your eyes tested recently (I am serious, btw). I have not had a single missed verification so far.

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I agree to some extent. Looks like one cannot reply to a specific post somewhere in the middle of a thread. All replies get queued at the end. So one might wonder who the response is addressed to. In a a long thread that is almost impossible to figure out.

You can respond to any post in teh middle of a thread, but the response will show up at the end of the thread. So to avoid confusion, use the quote button instead of reply.

I tested out the nesting of quotes. The forum can show about 15 levels of indents very easily, and it doesn't crash if you do more (like CH used to.)

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 pm

SomeProfile wrote:
charvaka wrote:Human verification for threads (I sometimes have to make 3-4 attempts before I succeed in verifying that I am a human -- yeah, I know!)

That is surprising. Is it your monitor or browser? Or have you gotten your eyes tested recently (I am serious, btw). I have not had a single missed verification so far.

It is most probably my eyes. I had very high myopia for which I got lasik. I also have astigmatism, and I am a little color-blind (I can't distinguish certain shades of green from certain shades of red.) So it's likely not a computer or reddit problem as much as a me problem.

by charvaka Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:54 pm

SomeProfile wrote:You cannot really make out which post was in response to which. The quoting functionality is of limited use here... too many embedded quotes look ugly and confusing. Quoting a single previous response is not adequate.

I disagree. I have been using forums like this for other purposes, and I could always figure out which post was in response to which, if people used quotes. A tree would be better, but lack of a tree is not a show-stopper for me.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:26 pm

many professional forums are like this one. It is usually not at all a problem to follow a discussion continuously and with a set of recognized handles. I follow some forums like that and dont have much problem. But, usually, the issue is very focused. For someone like Rashmun (Akbar) or TS (Self) with very specific interests, this site is very good and highly convenient. For someone like me who goes into all and sundry topics, it is difficult to follow - if I were interested in it - unless I continuously monitor it.

by Admin Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:02 pm

Please go to the top of the post to cast your vote.

by Guest Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:44 pm

is there a third option of either?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:21 pm

I would like to move a motion to postpone the voting deadline by 2 additional day to enable all those who browse at work to vote.

Also I would like to move a motion to censure the Admin for applying undue "political pressure" to vote immediately, thus interfering with my conscience and voting rights.

Please second this motion and vote (within 1 hour)

by Guest Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:27 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Please second this motion and vote (within 1 hour)

lol

by SomeProfile Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:30 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Please second this motion and vote (within 1 hour)

Seconded.

by charvaka Sun May 01, 2011 1:10 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I would like to move a motion to postpone the voting deadline by 2 additional day to enable all those who browse at work to vote.

I will keep the poll open until the 6 pm Pacific time on Monday. That way we can get enough opinions.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Also I would like to move a motion to censure the Admin for applying undue "political pressure" to vote immediately, thus interfering with my conscience and voting rights.

There is no pressure to vote... you can vote whenever you are ready. I am just trying to put an end to this uncertainty, so we can make an orderly transition to the new state.

by Admin Sun May 01, 2011 1:12 am

Tracy Whitney wrote:is there a third option of either?

There is now.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 01, 2011 1:18 am

But there is also a 4th option. What happens to the people who already voted? what if they want to change their vote ? If they vote again it is illegal, if they can't then also illegal. Can you change the ballot half way during a poll ?

We want an election commission to oversee the democratic process and prevent its subversion. Not good to promote communist hegemony. I am sure sandilya will agree that it is nothing but Telenganism and democracy by KCR style.

by harharmahadev Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 am

charvaka wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I would like to move a motion to postpone the voting deadline by 2 additional day to enable all those who browse at work to vote.
I will keep the poll open until the 6 pm Pacific time on Monday. That way we can get enough opinions.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Also I would like to move a motion to censure the Admin for applying undue "political pressure" to vote immediately, thus interfering with my conscience and voting rights.
There is no pressure to vote... you can vote whenever you are ready. I am just trying to put an end to this uncertainty, so we can make an orderly transition to the new state.

Are you guys planning to look at other options or are you sticking to just these two sites?

by Guest Sun May 01, 2011 9:39 am

Negative for forumotion: Hard to read through multiply nested discussion...

Negatives for redditt: Can delete an entire thread, and posts don't come up when commented upon.

Both sites have voting system but srsly, I don't have the time to vote things up and down, and I am sure nor do most of you... We are not in college any more.

While I liked barebones feel of redditt, for now I am comfortable with forumotion.

Will eventually move to wherever the group is moving.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 01, 2011 12:37 pm

still on the fence. reddit feels more spare and cleaner, but i am used to this layout on anothersubcontinent.

by Hellsangel Sun May 01, 2011 12:47 pm

I personally prefer this forum.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 01, 2011 1:01 pm

this site is conducive to Luke warmus. Even if he corrects someone's post, it shows up at the bottom. and there cannot be a tit-a-tat two way postings in a nested manner. Also, tedious for infrequent visitors to scan old posts or threads.

This one is like CH but "Latest Threads" as the front page instead of the "latest posts"

People will get used to it and learn to live with what they have.

by charvaka Sun May 01, 2011 1:04 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:This one is like CH but "Latest Threads" as the front page instead of the "latest posts"

Yes, and I am looking today for a way to make this site show threaded views. That's my biggest problem with this site, and I am looking for solutions. There is a 20-30% chance that I will find a solution.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 01, 2011 8:40 pm

i voted and in favor of this forum.

my main reason is that i am used to the layout of this forum. a secondary reason is that it doesn't suspect that i am a spam bot. i trust both carvaka and some profile equally in maintaining privacy, and i believe whatever they've said about the data that they can see about members. so that was not a factor in my vote.

by Guest Sun May 01, 2011 9:48 pm

i like the UI of forumotion but i like that there are more members on reddit india forum. i'll be fine on either sites i guess.
may the best forum win Very Happy

Cheers,
7

PS: i like that i get to keep my nick on forumotion.

by SomeProfile Sun May 01, 2011 11:01 pm

I too favor this forum now. I liked Reddit for almost every other reason, except that it won't show the latest posts and comments anywhere. For our style of conversations, that is a deal breaker. I realized what an important functionality that is when TW submitted one of her long comments on an obscure thread last night, and nobody knew about it until she posted a separate thread to announce it. That won't work for us at all. I will miss Reddit's / Sulekha's tree-structure for comments on long threads.

We'll always have the Reddit Coffeehouse as a backup option if we want. I'll check it periodically. I will also start checking Reddit's India page ( http://www.reddit.com/r/India ). It will be good to expand our horizons.

In closing though, I am afraid of three things for this forum:

1. Other than the people who are already here now, most of the other Sulekhaites might not move. At first I thought they would. But I am underestimating people's inertia.

2. Since this forum is not part of a larger site, we may not get any new-comers here, unless somebody personally told somebody else about this site. Most of us came to Sulekha's forum because we came to the larger site Sulekha through a Google search or something. Without periodic infusions of new blood, a forum will become stagnant.

3. I am afraid that Sulekha is not really dead despite all its weaknesses. People (including some of us) might continue responding to posts there, and that would keep it going. The longer it goes on, the less chances this board has of surviving. Sad

by Guest Sun May 01, 2011 11:07 pm

even if this board doesn't survive and we go back to sulekha, this is a fine makeshift arrangement to keep the discussions going.

by Guest Sun May 01, 2011 11:24 pm

i am not thinking longterm. will be here for as long as its interesting and find something new when this feels stagnant.
i'll miss not having all the sulekha CHers here though. i hope they fix the forum and ban the thread killers and we can all go back there.

by charvaka Mon May 02, 2011 12:37 am

SomeProfile wrote:1. Other than the people who are already here now, most of the other Sulekhaites might not move. At first I thought they would. But I am underestimating people's inertia.

I think they will, if we all don't go post there.

SomeProfile wrote:2. Since this forum is not part of a larger site, we may not get any new-comers here, unless somebody personally told somebody else about this site. Most of us came to Sulekha's forum because we came to the larger site Sulekha through a Google search or something. Without periodic infusions of new blood, a forum will become stagnant.

This is a valid concern. We need to work on search-engine optimization so our forum shows up high on Google searches on various Indian topics. That's how people find Sulekha in the first place.

SomeProfile wrote:3. I am afraid that Sulekha is not really dead despite all its weaknesses. People (including some of us) might continue responding to posts there, and that would keep it going. The longer it goes on, the less chances this board has of surviving.

I hope Sulekha isn't dead, and that they fix at least the thread-killing bug. I have decided to not post there any more for a while (even the promotions of this forum.)

by Another Brick Mon May 02, 2011 1:27 am

i like this one better than reddit. there are two reasons for that -

1) reddit asks me to wait for 8 minutes between my posts. not good.
2) i invariably open reddit instead of rediff when i want to read news.

by Another Brick Mon May 02, 2011 1:28 am

although i must i say i prefer CH over both of these.

by charvaka Mon May 02, 2011 1:30 am

Another Brick wrote:i like this one better than reddit. there are two reasons for that -

1) reddit asks me to wait for 8 minutes between my posts. not good.
2) i invariably open reddit instead of rediff when i want to read news.

Ironically, reddit started as a news sharing site, so it's not the wrong place to look for news. Welcome to the new CH, btw.

by Guest Mon May 02, 2011 1:38 am

I voted for Reddit simply because I like forums where an individual is not in charge.

I had a bad experience with such a forum some time back and hence the fear. Hopefully, that will not be an issue here.

by charvaka Mon May 02, 2011 1:44 am

blabberwock wrote:I voted for Reddit simply because I like forums where an individual is not in charge.

I had a bad experience with such a forum some time back and hence the fear. Hopefully, that will not be an issue here.

My hope is that Sulekha fixes the most glaring bugs so we can all go back there.

by Guest Mon May 02, 2011 3:17 am

this morning i had a lot of trouble accessing reddit 'cos the site was overloaded.

by Hellsangel Mon May 02, 2011 7:48 am

Another big plus for this site for me has been that I can post all kinds of stuff including pictures and videos even from my phone.

by Guest Mon May 02, 2011 9:18 am

Reddit vs. Forumotion -- please VOTE by Monday, May 2nd Crater11

yes you are right. should i delete this?

p.s. mommyyyy i love this forum. reminds me of anothersubcontinent's invison.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 02, 2011 7:21 pm

That Crater lake is a beautiful place. I got my only speeding ticket in this country going 80 in a 55 zone near Crater lake.

In any case, I am voting for Desichatter.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 02, 2011 7:22 pm

blabberwock wrote:I voted for Reddit simply because I like forums where an individual is not in charge.

I had a bad experience with such a forum some time back and hence the fear. Hopefully, that will not be an issue here.

Please tell us what happened...so that we can ensure such a thing does not happen here.

Trust in me....

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Which forum do you prefer as the future CH?