J & K treachery

Looking at various news reports, and connecting them, I have a feeling that J&K terrorists, their supporters across the border, egged on by Pakistan, are going to bring it to turmoil around end 2013, 2014.

I have a feeling, that the J&K government, will be sabotaged from inside, and some sort of incident (both at the border and inside) will be created to bring it to standstill, where even the J&K government will not function. The Army will be the only one holding forth, but the entire civil administration will be forced (with inside supporters) to side with terrorists. This might include the government also, since folks like PDP are quasi separatists anyway, with even Omar's party forcing to yield to sympathisers embedded within the administration, threatening to bring the administration to standstill

By allowing folks like Hurriyat to hold parleys with Pakistanis in Pakistan, India is unwittingly facilitating co-ordination among all these. In addition, during 2014, the US will be leveraged with Pakistan in Afghanistan, so US might not be inclined to police Pakistan as in Kargil war. And it will also co-incide with Parliament elections in India. A virtual take over of the state could be planned.

Pakistan is sure to test the waters of US reaction, by smaller incidents until 2014. The one we saw (about mutilation of two soldiers) the first , although this one gave Pakistani Army to regain its prominence, citing tensions with India, to push through (with Qadri as puppet), a caretaker government during elections in Pakistan. Only then can a pliant government be appointed in Islamabad. Most prob. it could be Imran Khan's party, who has been losing support off late.

Indian FM and NSA's do not seem to have a clue.

2013 and more importantly 2014 are likely to be trying times for India.

It has started! Suddenly things are being escalated.

1) Kishtwar incidents and associated Bundh in Kashmir are  leading to Sunni Muslims being shepherded by Geelani.
2) Pakistan creating border incidents to push Infiltration before Winter. 
3) Lots of statements from moderate Political Leaders from J&K state, refusing to condemn the anti-national provocateurs of Kishtwar incidents.
4) Pakistan will have no leverage with US after its withdrawal from Afghanistan. Reports did indicate separate dinners Kerry had with Kayani outside Pakistan 
 prior  to take over of Nawaz. 
5) Pakis went back on their promise of giving MFN. Kurshid had said it would happen soon in December 2012.  Clearly he has no clue!
6) Normally incidents against India are preceded by nasty articles against India in Pakistani Urdu/English Press/Media. This is also happening. 
7) The embedded sympathizers within the J&K  government can aid the terrorists who are infiltrating and help them setup bases in J&K. 
Busybodies claiming (without basis) that solution in Kashmir helps US in Afghanistan.
9)  When India complains against wanton be-headings, bring in UN, which India is averse to. 
10) Kayani also briefed Nawaz, who has gone mysteriously silent. It looks like he is on board to the game plan and wants to see if things could be made advantageous for Pakistan. May be he will give  time 
 for it to work and after extracting the concessions by putting India under duress, will act like a peace dove and ask for economic help and help for power supply. .
11) Attack on Indian consulates in Afghanistan.

Possible Game plan of Pakis.
a) Raise the temperature in J&K with infiltrated terrorists and their overt/covert sympathizers
b) Internationalize it
c) Play up Jihadi threat after withdrawal of US.
d) Do major terrorist acts and secure a foothold for terrorists, when Indian gov is busy with elections
e) Force India to negotiate and use MMS (who does not seem to understand Paki treachery) to sign on whatever is being dished out in joint statements, moving the goal posts to their advantage with tacit support from US and China.
f) Use Leverage with US in 2014 to apply pressure on India.
g) Claim Jammu and Kashmir together as issues (Orchestrated anti-national demonstrations 
 in Jammu should be seen in that light). When it comes to final negotiations ask for everything hoping that India will retain Jammu and Indian negotiators can claim that they have got something in return by keeping Jammu. 
  
India needs to be vigilant around elections. It needs to  watch Pakistan closely, and keep US engaged, to preempt anti-Indian positions by US. It needs some deft diplomacy. India also needs to take appropriate counter measures aggressively in  Foreign affairs, Media  & in Home affairs. Indian parliament needs to show unity against Pakistani mis-deeds.

Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

he forgot to add...

anti-hindu PiSS gang led by people like Maulana Merlot and anti-India CONmen cooking the pot from inside.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

he forgot to add...

anti-hindu PiSS gang led by people like Maulana Merlot and anti-India CONmen cooking the pot from inside.

Yes there are internal supporters to these nefarious deeds of Pakistan. Your comments deserve a response, unlike some others who contribute nothing to the discussion.
Please see this link, on how Saudi Arabia has been contributing to creating these supporters. 

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saudi-charities-pump-in-funds-through-hawala-channels-to-radicalise-kashmir-valley/1/165660.html

The excerpts are frightening, because the article talks about a Saudi Plan to fund $35 Billion for Mosques in South Asia. Whatever happened in Kashmir below could be replicated in TN,Kerala, WB , Assam , UP and Hyderabad region to create foot soldiers for homegrown insurgency.

Excerpts
Based on US intelligence, they believe that the House of Saud, rulers of Saudi Arabia, had in 2005 approved a $35-billion (Rs.1,75,000 crore) plan to build mosques and madrassas in South Asia. "Wahhabi groups across Jammu and Kashmir were beneficiaries of this largesse," says a senior police officer.

Intelligence sources say Saudi charities and private donors route zakat (charity) money to J&K through illegal hawala channels. It increases during the Eid season. Whenever mosque managements are questioned about it, their explanation is that it is donation or goat-skin money.
"Not one organisation registered under the FCRA in J&K accounted for money coming in from Saudi Arabia," says a senior MHA official. However, there is no way to keep track of funds received by organisations that are not registered with MHA. Most of the organisations, which have contributed to the growth of Wahhabi and Ahl-e-Hadith movements in Kashmir, are not registered.

Admitting massive cash inflows to the Valley, a senior state police officer says that the bulk of the illegal funds meant for Wahhabi groups and other hardline factions are physically transferred across the Line of Control and and at the trading station in Uri in the form of hard currency-both real and fake Indian currency notes-taking advantage of the barter trade being permitted between J&K and Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir. "Checks by customs officers are at best cursory. There are no X-ray machines and other standard international border control equipment. The army merely observes the goings-on," he says. The officer adds that it is impossible to quantify the smuggled funds and that no agency-Central or state-has made any effort to do so.



What concerns police and intelligence officials more is the possibility of Lashkar-e-Toiba and Tehreek-ul-Mujahideen militants relying on Ahl-e-Hadith members to provide them hideouts. "Indoctrinated Wahhabis are the least likely to turn in Islamist militants to the police," says a senior intelligence official.

Scarcely visible a decade and a half ago, Ahl-e-Hadith now claims over 15 lakh members, over 16 per cent of Jammu and Kashmir's Muslims.

Ahl-e-Hadith is believed to have funded 150 schools, several colleges, orphanages, clinics and medical diagnostic centres. It has also proposed a Rs.200-crore Islamic university, Transworld Muslim University (TWMU), in Hyderpora, Srinagar, affiliated to leading Saudi institutions.The proposal was referred to a select committee after state Congress chief Saifuddin Soz opposed it in the Legislative Council on October 9, 2010.

Ahl-e-Hadith is already engaged in setting up key faculties within its existing institutions across Srinagar. Accepting responsibility for halting the proposal, Soz was reticent about his reasons for refusing permission, since the proposal was cleared in February 2008 by then Congress Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad. Official sources claimed it was blocked, following intervention by J&K Governor N.N. Vohra on the advice of security agencies. Both the ruling National Conference and the Opposition People's Democratic Party (PDP) had supported the bill. PDP head Mehbooba Mufti cautions that any decision to scuttle the university must be preceded by a thorough investigation into Ahl-e-Hadith's sources of finance.

The Jammu and Kashmir Peace Foundation (JKPF), a Hanafi organisation devoted to reviving historic Sufi shrines, believes that a sinister process of "fundamentalist indoctrination" is under way in Wahhabi madrassas and schools. Based on a district-wise count, JKPF's Chairman Fayaz Ahmad Bhatt, 40, says nearly 7,000 mosques, including 911 in Srinagar, preach the orthodox Wahhabi brand of Islam. Kashmir's non-Muslim minority, too, views the Wahhabi ingress as a "conspiracy to Talibanise Kashmir". "The Taliban had also sprung from Pakistani madrassas funded by the Wahhabis," says former Kashmir University professor Kashi Nath Pandita.

rawemotions wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

he forgot to add...

anti-hindu PiSS gang led by people like Maulana Merlot and anti-India CONmen cooking the pot from inside.

Yes there are internal supporters to these nefarious deeds of Pakistan. Your comments deserve a response, unlike some others who contribute nothing to the discussion.
Please see this link, on how Saudi Arabia has been contributing to creating these supporters. 

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saudi-charities-pump-in-funds-through-hawala-channels-to-radicalise-kashmir-valley/1/165660.html

The excerpts are frightening, because the article talks about a Saudi Plan to fund $35 Billion for Mosques in South Asia. Whatever happened in Kashmir below could be replicated in TN,Kerala, WB , Assam , UP and Hyderabad region to create foot soldiers for homegrown insurgency.
[/font][/color]

It is already happening... Just look around any village or city. Muslims tend to move in to concentrated neighborhoods. Big mosques - not the Nagpal type - are coming up. I saw a huge mosque - of the type in Triplicane or the thousand lights are with tall minarets built right net to a Vishnu temple in the middle of an area that has so few muslims - heck it is a place which is mostly a Naidus and Goundar area for decades and centuries. The mosque came about 10 years ago - and i was like where the fyuck this thing came from. Guess what... a group of middle east-returned rich muslims built a colony of 200 individual homes - only muslims allowed. They then slowly put their brotehrs and sons/daughter in the near by colonies. The "conversion" of one street at a time is continueing. These folks pumped in the money and built this Mosque - not in their colony but in the middle of a poor area. Now the proselytizing and merlotizing is being spread to the poor neighborhoods. i was told that the mosque money was "donted" by charities....yeah rite.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

he forgot to add...

anti-hindu PiSS gang led by people like Maulana Merlot and anti-India CONmen cooking the pot from inside.

Yes there are internal supporters to these nefarious deeds of Pakistan. Your comments deserve a response, unlike some others who contribute nothing to the discussion.
Please see this link, on how Saudi Arabia has been contributing to creating these supporters. 

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saudi-charities-pump-in-funds-through-hawala-channels-to-radicalise-kashmir-valley/1/165660.html

The excerpts are frightening, because the article talks about a Saudi Plan to fund $35 Billion for Mosques in South Asia. Whatever happened in Kashmir below could be replicated in TN,Kerala, WB , Assam , UP and Hyderabad region to create foot soldiers for homegrown insurgency.
[/font][/color]

It is already happening... Just look around any village or city.  Muslims tend to move in to concentrated neighborhoods. Big mosques - not the Nagpal type - are coming up. I saw a huge mosque - of the type in Triplicane or the thousand lights are with tall minarets built right net to a Vishnu temple in the middle of an area that has so few muslims - heck it is a place which is mostly a Naidus and Goundar area for decades and centuries.  The mosque came about 10 years ago - and i was like where the fyuck this thing came from. Guess what... a group of middle east-returned  rich muslims built a colony of 200 individual homes - only muslims allowed. They then slowly put their brotehrs and sons/daughter in the near by colonies. The "conversion" of one street at a time is continueing. These folks pumped in the money and built this Mosque - not in their colony but in the middle of a poor area. Now the proselytizing and merlotizing  is being spread to the poor neighborhoods. i was told that the mosque money was "donted" by charities....yeah rite.

I found another disturbing addition to this. Many of the important temple towns, suddenly have new Hotels which are now owned by Muslims. It is kind of strange to see Hotels owned by Muslims being built in towns which are Non Muslims Pilgrimage places.  No one knows their intention to build these places.
One possibility is to circulate the excess black money received from abroad and earn revenue based on that. More sinister possibility is these places in remote locations serving as hideouts for insurgents, terrorists, hideouts for Political Islamic activities, and Political Islamists.

rawemotions wrote:
I found another disturbing addition to this. Many of the important temple towns, suddenly have new Hotels which are now owned by Muslims. It is kind of strange to see Hotels owned by Muslims being built in towns which are Non Muslims Pilgrimage places.  No one knows their intention to build these places.
One possibility is to circulate the excess black money received from abroad and earn revenue based on that. More sinister possibility is these places in remote locations serving as hideouts for insurgents, terrorists, hideouts for Political Islamic activities, and Political Islamists.

The more the Govt computerizes the land dealings, the more innovative the crooks become in black money transactions. Construction and real estate, and Jewelry are the biggest black-money world. If the govt. can clean these things (will never happen bcz all are in it), 80% of the corruption will disappear in India. Just think about anything in India, it will lead to one of these two areas.

Raw,
Islamic terrorism. ISI plots, Saudi money, Congress (in) abilities, and secularist betrayel were all known problems/issues for atleast two decades if not more.
what is new about these threats?
What is your solution to these problems (or threats as you see)?
Do you want pak nuked?
Do you want all Muslims in India to be sent to pak( a throw back to independence)?
Do you wantto throw all secularists be thrown in jail?
Do you want to erase Congress party from India?
Tell us your plan.

truthbetold wrote:Raw,
Islamic terrorism. ISI plots,  Saudi money,  Congress (in) abilities, and secularist betrayel were all known problems/issues for atleast two decades if not more.
what is new about these threats?
What is your solution to these problems (or threats as you see)?
Do you want pak nuked?
Do you want all Muslims in India to be sent to pak( a throw back to independence)?
Do you wantto  throw all secularists be thrown in jail?
Do you want to erase Congress party from India?
Tell us your plan.

No need to do any of the above. Just a strong message that their rights will be protected and allowed to live in peace but they will never be allowed to trample on Hindus, and no matter what the various Holey books say no conversion will be allowed. The rest will follow automatically.

Just do what the Israelis do for a start. Declare India a secular - Hindu nation and all conversions are banned - except to conversion to Hindusism, Budhism, Jainism, Sikhism - the ones that have no foreign origin or even indirect foreign loyalty/influence. The conversion back to the India-origin relgiions is based on the logic that all of these Muslims and Christians have hindu ancestry.

CLEAN UP HINDUISM, and ban open usage and mention of caste. If they can ban and enforce in the case of "harijans", and "religions" why not caste names? If any one wants to practice casteism and religionism it should be confined to marriage and death and inside 4 walls.

Tighten QUICK enforcement of financial looters (including hawala and other black marketeers) and quicken convictions.

All these can be done only by those with no own families or other members who could amass wealth.

I have shared news reports I come across, to folks in this forum. The intent of Pakistan is known, but not the methods used, and they keep trying new ways to destabilize India. 

Did you know these? If you know you should post it. There are a few in this forum who are interested in keeping tabs on such issues. People need to be aware of what is happening the ground. Feel free to ignore it, if you do not find it palatable.

All of your questions are loaded statements  (in disguise as a question) that is pure non-sense. 

Of these only one is worth discussing. How to tackle Pakistan? I had a previous post on exactly the same question. I do think many people responded. Not sure if anyone in this forum has real ideas. The general consensus is that it is a screwed up country. The problem is that the country is further screwing itself, has a quixotic policy of Hurting India and Indian interests and also serves as a tool for Chinese to hurt Indian economy. Since you have brought up that topic, what is your solution for these issues ? My views on tackling Pakistan have been mentioned a few times in my previous posts in forumotion and Sulekha, and may I add, none of them involved a full-scale Military response (which is impractical). I have refined my position in recent years on how to tackle them. May I add ,co-opting Patriotic Indian Muslim Citizens is part of the strategy. 
There is no magic wand, but a sustained multi-year campaign with long term objectives and with appropriate refinements along the way can lead to results better than status-quo. It will take about 25-30 years to get any meaningful results. That country is royally screwed up for any immediate fixes. in the short term India should focus on defensive measures, and building a consensus on Pakistan Policy, but with strategic vision, that keeps the opponent guessing.

Please read those posts and please say your points and may be we can have a thread on that.

Raw,
based on your response to my questions, there is one tangible action
A law against conversion to other religions from Hinduism.
According to your post you are against only the above. You are ok with conversion back to Hinduism from other so called foreigen religions.
one flaw in your argument is that all Muslims and Christians who live in India were at one time Hindu. Not true. Many of the Muslims who live India were part of the armies that came from turkey, central Asia, Iran and other Arab nations. Their descendants were never Hindu.
did any Indian govt or state try such a law? If yes, is it now official?

Other than conversion you said you will tell THEM not to trample on Hindus. How do you plan to do that?
on your suggestion of clean up Hinduism. Ban mention of caste.
who is going to do that? In the 66 years of independence, not a single party of any significance mentioned any thing remotely close to banning caste or mention of caste.
I know you added that action on financial looters for completeness. Even though you are a little hyper, I sense even you do not think that there is a chance in hell that any party will ever try to go near financial looters. left included.
Where does that leave you, raw?
I do not mean to discourage you but you have to do a better job at defining india's problems. You need to do lot more objective home work to come with. Workable solutions.

truthbetold wrote:Other than conversion you said you will tell THEM not to trample on Hindus. How do you plan to do that?
on your suggestion of clean up Hinduism. Ban mention of caste.
who is going to do that? In the 66 years of independence, not a single party of any significance mentioned any thing remotely close to banning caste or mention of caste.
I know you added that action on financial looters for completeness. Even though you are a little hyper,  I sense even you do not think that there is a chance in hell that any party will ever try to go near financial looters. left included.
Where does that leave you,   raw?
I do not mean to discourage you but you have to do a better job at defining india's problems.  You need to do lot more objective home work to come with. Workable solutions.

By shooting down all ideas with an if and a but, you are saying the only thing possible is to give up...

It is possible... when the entrenched system is bolted out. Right now, the CONmen and the Dyansty has created an elaborate system that has made the present players comfortable with status quo. Even the BJP will be destined to that...IF theold players and congress converts are put in Delhi.

That is one reason why we need totally new players exported from the states. Modi, Jaya, Patnaik, CBN. People with no "official" family have a better chance to change the system. I have a hunch that Modi will follow what I have been thinking and saying... Dont allow any party hoppers into BJP. Play hardball with all regional players to ensure BJP will have chance to get an absolute majority on its own. It may not win in 2014, better work for 2019.

Any guarantees? no...but there is a better chance than status quo.

There are no caveats in my reply, samiyar.
Except Aryan Samaj, no other organization of India stepped forward to minimize the impact of caste in Indian society. So that is a day dream.
Financial looters. Remember bjp was in power for 7 years. I saw no evidence of action against known sources of black money. In fact bjp projects itself as pro capital party. It will never lead an anti capital fight.
so that leaves raw had one viable idea. The conversions. I am violently opposed to restricting conversion. One can make a reasonable case for restrictions on monetary. Or material benefit as the reward for conversion. I could oppose that on the basis of logistical problem of drawing a line between charity and inducement. I am going to oppose that. History of the world shows religious expansion happened through sword and subjugation, trickery and magic, monetary and material inducements, international politics and immoral acts. Religions should fight on all grounds and survive. Let Hindus find their solutions without govt help.

truthbetold wrote:There are no caveats in my reply, samiyar.
Except Aryan Samaj,  no other organization of India stepped forward to minimize the impact of caste in Indian society. So that is a day dream.
Financial looters.  Remember bjp was in power for 7 years. I saw no evidence of action against known sources of black money. In fact bjp projects itself as pro capital party. It will never lead an anti capital fight.
so that leaves raw had one viable idea. The conversions. I am violently opposed to restricting conversion. One can make a reasonable case for restrictions on monetary. Or material benefit as the reward for conversion. I could oppose that on the basis of logistical problem of drawing a line between charity and inducement. I am going to oppose that.  History of the world shows religious expansion happened through sword and subjugation,  trickery and magic,  monetary and material inducements,  international politics and immoral acts. Religions should fight on all grounds and survive. Let Hindus find their solutions without govt help.

You missed it. I know all parties play caste#. The EC should impose a no mention of caste condition. Look how no one openly asks for HINDU votes or even others OPENLY ask for votes based on religion (openly is the keyword). The EC should impose a strict ban on mention of any caste name (that will be a first step), and enforce disqualifications of politicians strictly if they break the ban.

conversion should be banned across the board. only muslims and christians openly proselytize claiming it to be part of their "religious" duties and freedom...Bull... if it is a secular country, then it is a flat ban on everyone. PERIOD. Mixed marriages have to be registered only with their respective religions. Now, kids religion can be an issue - but will worry about it in second phase.

The discussion here is not if the politicians will do it, but what they SHOULD try to do it. Indians are good at coming up with bills and laws - only practicing them is rare. That is where, the enforcement should be strict - IF there has to be some real change.

May be MMS should do a Nehru and allow US (and NATO) spy planes in that region so they will get the clear picture.

truthbetold wrote:Raw,
based on your response to my questions,  there is one tangible action
A law against conversion to other religions from Hinduism.
According to your post you are against only the above. You are ok with conversion back to Hinduism from other so called foreigen religions.
one flaw in your argument is that all Muslims and Christians who live in India were at one time Hindu. Not true. Many of the Muslims who live India were part of the armies that came from turkey,  central Asia,  Iran and other Arab nations. Their descendants were never Hindu.
did any Indian govt or state try such a law? If yes,  is it now official?

How can you come to such a conclusion ? 
When did I even talk of Conversion in my response ? Have you confused Uppili's replies with mine ?

I still am waiting for your proposals to tackle Pakistan.

truthbetold wrote:There are no caveats in my reply, samiyar.
Except Aryan Samaj,  no other organization of India stepped forward to minimize the impact of caste in Indian society. So that is a day dream.
Financial looters.  Remember bjp was in power for 7 years. I saw no evidence of action against known sources of black money. In fact bjp projects itself as pro capital party. It will never lead an anti capital fight.
so that leaves raw had one viable idea. The conversions. I am violently opposed to restricting conversion. One can make a reasonable case for restrictions on monetary. Or material benefit as the reward for conversion. I could oppose that on the basis of logistical problem of drawing a line between charity and inducement. I am going to oppose that.  History of the world shows religious expansion happened through sword and subjugation,  trickery and magic,  monetary and material inducements,  international politics and immoral acts. Religions should fight on all grounds and survive. Let Hindus find their solutions without govt help.

The reason BJP could not go after Black Money is that OECD countries did not have a financial crisis at that time, and there was no environment in which countries co-operate. The whole thing of Black Money co-operation came to centre stage, only when US went after Swiss banks using data stole from their banks and OECD countries decided to have a new law making it mandatory for those countries to co-operate. Under sustained OECD and US pressure Swiss also started co-operations but with caveats. They could have still gone after Black Money in India., but probably did not want to rock the boat in first term, without ensuring that economy first recovers from the sanctions. But now it is a hydra headed monster in india, and is the chief reason behind the speculation in real-estate.


Congress got this golden opportunity in 2008 and they missed it. There were allegations that they did not press Germany to part with accounts, even though Germany was willing to give.  In addition allegedly, they signed some kind of goofy double taxation agreement deal with Swiss, which says no one can ask any questions about indian accounts in Swiss banks prior to 2011. Am not really sure what double taxation has got to do with identifying and recovering Black money.  Guess who exactly this benefits ?  They just weren't forceful enough with Swiss authorities. Whereas US displays that hunger by directly suing Swiss Banks and their entities in US.

It is ok for bjp to not act on available information to not rock the boat so their election chances for second term are not hurt but upa is somehow selfish if they do not act to protect their biggest donors including their own Supreme leader's ill gotten wealth.

Bjp is going after upa on black money in Swiss banks because it can benefit immensely by revealing Congress leaders involved. But it's intention to solve financial mess are murky. They messed up bofors during their rule to help hindujas escape.

Bjp is beholden to major monied families in India. It will not do any serious fighting against any financial irregularity or.

truthbetold wrote:It is ok for bjp to not act on available information to not rock the boat so their election chances for second term are not hurt but upa is somehow selfish if they do not act to protect their biggest donors including their own Supreme leader's ill gotten wealth.

Bjp is going after upa on black money in Swiss banks because it can benefit immensely by revealing Congress leaders involved. But it's intention to solve financial mess are murky. They messed up bofors during their rule to help hindujas escape.

Bjp is beholden  to major monied families in India. It will not do any serious fighting against any financial irregularity or.

There are no holy people when it comes to politics. People use money to garner power, and use power to garner money.

That is why I said even BJP under Advani will be the same old story. nothing will change and the "allies" will dilute any laws. we need a totally new face/approach with less chances of dynastic tendencies (this is THE scourge of Indian politics today.) That is what makes Mody is most likely to change something, although I am not 100% comfortable with his autocratic tendencies. But, so was Indira and most politicians who accomplished something in Indian politics - perhaps, that is a required and a trait favored by Indian voters having lived under masters and kings and emperors.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

truthbetold wrote:It is ok for bjp to not act on available information to not rock the boat so their election chances for second term are not hurt but upa is somehow selfish if they do not act to protect their biggest donors including their own Supreme leader's ill gotten wealth.

Bjp is going after upa on black money in Swiss banks because it can benefit immensely by revealing Congress leaders involved. But it's intention to solve financial mess are murky. They messed up bofors during their rule to help hindujas escape.

Bjp is beholden  to major monied families in India. It will not do any serious fighting against any financial irregularity or.

There are no holy people when it comes to politics. People use money to garner power, and use power to garner money.

That is why I said even BJP under Advani will be the same old story. nothing will change and the "allies" will dilute any laws. we need a totally new face/approach with less chances of dynastic tendencies (this is THE scourge of Indian politics today.)  That is what makes Mody is most likely to change something, although I am not 100% comfortable with his autocratic tendencies. But, so was Indira and most politicians who accomplished something in Indian politics - perhaps, that is a required and a trait favored by Indian voters having lived under masters and kings and emperors.

>>>>I agree. This is an apt summary of the Indian political situation today.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

truthbetold wrote:It is ok for bjp to not act on available information to not rock the boat so their election chances for second term are not hurt but upa is somehow selfish if they do not act to protect their biggest donors including their own Supreme leader's ill gotten wealth.

Bjp is going after upa on black money in Swiss banks because it can benefit immensely by revealing Congress leaders involved. But it's intention to solve financial mess are murky. They messed up bofors during their rule to help hindujas escape.

Bjp is beholden  to major monied families in India. It will not do any serious fighting against any financial irregularity or.

There are no holy people when it comes to politics. People use money to garner power, and use power to garner money.

That is why I said even BJP under Advani will be the same old story. nothing will change and the "allies" will dilute any laws. we need a totally new face/approach with less chances of dynastic tendencies (this is THE scourge of Indian politics today.)  That is what makes Mody is most likely to change something, although I am not 100% comfortable with his autocratic tendencies. But, so was Indira and most politicians who accomplished something in Indian politics - perhaps, that is a required and a trait favored by Indian voters having lived under masters and kings and emperors.

According to Uppili, Hero-worshiping is what the doctor ordered; Modi this Modi that Modi is be all and end all

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

truthbetold wrote:It is ok for bjp to not act on available information to not rock the boat so their election chances for second term are not hurt but upa is somehow selfish if they do not act to protect their biggest donors including their own Supreme leader's ill gotten wealth.

Bjp is going after upa on black money in Swiss banks because it can benefit immensely by revealing Congress leaders involved. But it's intention to solve financial mess are murky. They messed up bofors during their rule to help hindujas escape.

Bjp is beholden  to major monied families in India. It will not do any serious fighting against any financial irregularity or.

There are no holy people when it comes to politics. People use money to garner power, and use power to garner money.

That is why I said even BJP under Advani will be the same old story. nothing will change and the "allies" will dilute any laws. we need a totally new face/approach with less chances of dynastic tendencies (this is THE scourge of Indian politics today.)  That is what makes Mody is most likely to change something, although I am not 100% comfortable with his autocratic tendencies. But, so was Indira and most politicians who accomplished something in Indian politics - perhaps, that is a required and a trait favored by Indian voters having lived under masters and kings and emperors.

According to Uppili, Hero-worshiping is what the doctor ordered; Modi this Modi that Modi is be all and end all

two guys: Modi and Rahul. You got to worship one of the two.

You list Rahul Baba's achievements, and convince me... The floor is all yours.

If I have to pick a single individual to run Indian economy, I would still pick mms minus Congress party. Not for pm because that requires a connection with people.
Mms is also getting old but he is better at numbers than rahul or Modi.

Sonia and mms screwed up the andhra pradedh division problem so badly because they lack peoples touch. Now India will pay dearly through lost lives, property and productivity.

truthbetold wrote:If I have to pick a single individual to run Indian economy,  I would still pick mms minus Congress party. Not for pm because that requires a connection with people.
Mms is also getting old but he is better at numbers than rahul or Modi.

Sonia and mms screwed up the andhra pradedh division problem so badly because they lack peoples touch. Now India will pay dearly through lost lives, property and productivity.

TbT: Play with the cards you are dealt with.

I am not bound by the rules of Indian politics.
i am ok with the principle of throwing out the bums.
i like to see a realignment of parties with both congress and rss
Relegated to minor roles. a third front with nitish kumar would be a new experiment.

truthbetold wrote:I am not bound by the rules of Indian politics.
i am ok with the principle of throwing out the bums.
i like to see a realignment of parties with both congress and rss
Relegated to minor roles. a third front with nitish kumar would be a new experiment.

The problem with the 3rd front is it ill consist of Single-person parties - all with big ego, selfish agenda, and a corrupt past. Each will try to act big and undermine the accepted leader.

It will never succeed in India.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:According to Uppili, Hero-worshiping is what the doctor ordered; Modi this Modi that Modi is be all and end all

two guys: Modi and Rahul. You got to worship one of the two.

You list Rahul Baba's achievements, and convince me... The floor is all yours.

Well, Joe Gibbs was nobody when Jack Kent Cooke hired him as head coach yet he managed to win the only 3 super bowls in the team's long history. Presient Obama was nobody yet he seems to have done just fine, in fact much much better than his accomplished (Texas Governor) predecessor, an American version of Modi.

Cd,
Clinton's. Sex problems were well known and we ignored. We got Monica .
W's limitations were clear. We ignored. We got Iran and a large deficit.
India ignored sonia's ability to understand India. They got a divided ap and an himalayan size problem.
Rahul is the least qualified Indian leader. I shudder to think what he will do to India.
Politics at the top devour the weak and incompetent and people pay the price of their foolishness.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:According to Uppili, Hero-worshiping is what the doctor ordered; Modi this Modi that Modi is be all and end all

two guys: Modi and Rahul. You got to worship one of the two.

You list Rahul Baba's achievements, and convince me... The floor is all yours.

Well, Joe Gibbs was nobody when Jack Kent Cooke hired him as head coach yet he managed to win the only 3 super bowls in the team's long history. Presient Obama was nobody yet he seems to have done just fine, in fact much much better than his accomplished (Texas Governor) predecessor, an American version of Modi.

Smart...very smart...very very smart....

What did Rahul Baba achieve till now in whatever position?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:According to Uppili, Hero-worshiping is what the doctor ordered; Modi this Modi that Modi is be all and end all

two guys: Modi and Rahul. You got to worship one of the two.

You list Rahul Baba's achievements, and convince me... The floor is all yours.

Well, Joe Gibbs was nobody when Jack Kent Cooke hired him as head coach yet he managed to win the only 3 super bowls in the team's long history. Presient Obama was nobody yet he seems to have done just fine, in fact much much better than his accomplished (Texas Governor) predecessor, an American version of Modi.

Smart...very smart...very very smart....

What did Rahul Baba achieve till now in whatever position?

Upps Aunty, stop obsessing about Rahul Baba. Much as you wish it were so, this is not a US-style presidential election where people vote based on personalities. Btw, you should be worried if you can't convincingly showcase your hero'sGod's virtues and accomplishments without necessarily propping up some feeble strawman...

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Smart...very smart...very very smart....

What did Rahul Baba achieve till now in whatever position?

Upps Aunty, stop obsessing about Rahul Baba. Much as you wish it were so, this is not a US-style presidential election where people vote based on personalities. Btw, you should be worried if you can't convincingly showcase your hero'sGod's virtues and accomplishments without necessarily propping up some feeble strawman...

Gaywala: are you now trying to gain access to CD?

It may not be US-style, but to a large extent it matters. Indians dont like purely democratic organizations. They like a family Head, Village Head, Panchayat Head, and also a Political Head. Most parties in India become Leader-based. Once Basu was out of CPM, the commies also got into that trouble. People expect a leaders to pop up in their mind whenever they think of a party. That is Indian voters for you.

rawemotions wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Oh yes. It has started. The flapping about of headless chicken limpwristedly beating their breasts and hysterically weeping. But where is Upps Aunty? She should be leading this ritual.

he forgot to add...

anti-hindu PiSS gang led by people like Maulana Merlot and anti-India CONmen cooking the pot from inside.

Yes there are internal supporters to these nefarious deeds of Pakistan. Your comments deserve a response, unlike some others who contribute nothing to the discussion.
Please see this link, on how Saudi Arabia has been contributing to creating these supporters. 

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saudi-charities-pump-in-funds-through-hawala-channels-to-radicalise-kashmir-valley/1/165660.html

The excerpts are frightening, because the article talks about a Saudi Plan to fund $35 Billion for Mosques in South Asia. Whatever happened in Kashmir below could be replicated in TN,Kerala, WB , Assam , UP and Hyderabad region to create foot soldiers for homegrown insurgency.

Excerpts
Based on US intelligence, they believe that the House of Saud, rulers of Saudi Arabia, had in 2005 approved a $35-billion (Rs.1,75,000 crore) plan to build mosques and madrassas in South Asia. "Wahhabi groups across Jammu and Kashmir were beneficiaries of this largesse," says a senior police officer.

Intelligence sources say Saudi charities and private donors route zakat (charity) money to J&K through illegal hawala channels. It increases during the Eid season. Whenever mosque managements are questioned about it, their explanation is that it is donation or goat-skin money.
"Not one organisation registered under the FCRA in J&K accounted for money coming in from Saudi Arabia," says a senior MHA official. However, there is no way to keep track of funds received by organisations that are not registered with MHA. Most of the organisations, which have contributed to the growth of Wahhabi and Ahl-e-Hadith movements in Kashmir, are not registered.

Admitting massive cash inflows to the Valley, a senior state police officer says that the bulk of the illegal funds meant for Wahhabi groups and other hardline factions are physically transferred across the Line of Control and and at the trading station in Uri in the form of hard currency-both real and fake Indian currency notes-taking advantage of the barter trade being permitted between J&K and Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir. "Checks by customs officers are at best cursory. There are no X-ray machines and other standard international border control equipment. The army merely observes the goings-on," he says. The officer adds that it is impossible to quantify the smuggled funds and that no agency-Central or state-has made any effort to do so.



What concerns police and intelligence officials more is the possibility of Lashkar-e-Toiba and Tehreek-ul-Mujahideen militants relying on Ahl-e-Hadith members to provide them hideouts. "Indoctrinated Wahhabis are the least likely to turn in Islamist militants to the police," says a senior intelligence official.

Scarcely visible a decade and a half ago, Ahl-e-Hadith now claims over 15 lakh members, over 16 per cent of Jammu and Kashmir's Muslims.

Ahl-e-Hadith is believed to have funded 150 schools, several colleges, orphanages, clinics and medical diagnostic centres. It has also proposed a Rs.200-crore Islamic university, Transworld Muslim University (TWMU), in Hyderpora, Srinagar, affiliated to leading Saudi institutions.The proposal was referred to a select committee after state Congress chief Saifuddin Soz opposed it in the Legislative Council on October 9, 2010.

Ahl-e-Hadith is already engaged in setting up key faculties within its existing institutions across Srinagar. Accepting responsibility for halting the proposal, Soz was reticent about his reasons for refusing permission, since the proposal was cleared in February 2008 by then Congress Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad. Official sources claimed it was blocked, following intervention by J&K Governor N.N. Vohra on the advice of security agencies. Both the ruling National Conference and the Opposition People's Democratic Party (PDP) had supported the bill. PDP head Mehbooba Mufti cautions that any decision to scuttle the university must be preceded by a thorough investigation into Ahl-e-Hadith's sources of finance.

The Jammu and Kashmir Peace Foundation (JKPF), a Hanafi organisation devoted to reviving historic Sufi shrines, believes that a sinister process of "fundamentalist indoctrination" is under way in Wahhabi madrassas and schools. Based on a district-wise count, JKPF's Chairman Fayaz Ahmad Bhatt, 40, says nearly 7,000 mosques, including 911 in Srinagar, preach the orthodox Wahhabi brand of Islam. Kashmir's non-Muslim minority, too, views the Wahhabi ingress as a "conspiracy to Talibanise Kashmir". "The Taliban had also sprung from Pakistani madrassas funded by the Wahhabis," says former Kashmir University professor Kashi Nath Pandita.

More on what Pakistan is doing to change the ground situation.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/190-loc-violations-this-year-what-is-pakistan-plotting/20131018.htm

rawemotions wrote:Looking at various news reports, and connecting them, I have a feeling that J&K terrorists, their supporters across the border, egged on by Pakistan, are going to bring it to turmoil around end 2013, 2014.

I have a feeling, that the J&K government, will be sabotaged from inside, and some sort of incident (both at the border and inside) will be created to bring it to standstill, where even the J&K government will not function. The Army will be the only one holding forth, but the entire civil administration will be forced (with inside supporters) to side with terrorists. This might include the government also, since folks like PDP are quasi separatists anyway, with even Omar's party forcing to yield to sympathisers embedded within the administration, threatening to bring the administration to standstill

By allowing folks like Hurriyat to hold parleys with Pakistanis in Pakistan, India is unwittingly facilitating co-ordination among all these. In addition, during 2014, the US will be leveraged with Pakistan in Afghanistan, so US might not be inclined to  police Pakistan as in Kargil war. And it will also co-incide with Parliament elections in India. A virtual take over of the state could be planned.

Pakistan is sure to test the waters of US reaction, by smaller incidents until 2014. The one we saw (about mutilation of two soldiers) the first , although this one gave Pakistani Army to regain its prominence, citing tensions with India, to push through (with Qadri as puppet), a caretaker government during elections in Pakistan. Only then can a pliant government be appointed in Islamabad. Most prob. it could be Imran Khan's party, who has been losing support off late.

Indian FM and NSA's do not seem to have a clue.

2013 and more importantly 2014 are likely to be trying times for India.

There is only one way...Talk in a language that the PakiSaitanis and the iSlamis understand.

Carpet Bombing.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

rawemotions wrote:Looking at various news reports, and connecting them, I have a feeling that J&K terrorists, their supporters across the border, egged on by Pakistan, are going to bring it to turmoil around end 2013, 2014.

I have a feeling, that the J&K government, will be sabotaged from inside, and some sort of incident (both at the border and inside) will be created to bring it to standstill, where even the J&K government will not function. The Army will be the only one holding forth, but the entire civil administration will be forced (with inside supporters) to side with terrorists. This might include the government also, since folks like PDP are quasi separatists anyway, with even Omar's party forcing to yield to sympathisers embedded within the administration, threatening to bring the administration to standstill

By allowing folks like Hurriyat to hold parleys with Pakistanis in Pakistan, India is unwittingly facilitating co-ordination among all these. In addition, during 2014, the US will be leveraged with Pakistan in Afghanistan, so US might not be inclined to  police Pakistan as in Kargil war. And it will also co-incide with Parliament elections in India. A virtual take over of the state could be planned.

Pakistan is sure to test the waters of US reaction, by smaller incidents until 2014. The one we saw (about mutilation of two soldiers) the first , although this one gave Pakistani Army to regain its prominence, citing tensions with India, to push through (with Qadri as puppet), a caretaker government during elections in Pakistan. Only then can a pliant government be appointed in Islamabad. Most prob. it could be Imran Khan's party, who has been losing support off late.

Indian FM and NSA's do not seem to have a clue.

2013 and more importantly 2014 are likely to be trying times for India.

There is only one way...Talk in a language that the PakiSaitanis and the iSlamis understand.

Carpet Bombing.

Yeah. Carpet bombing CH and other boards with 500-word verbal diarrhea, accompanied by the usual frenzied, limpwristed breastbeating will definitely send out a very strong message to those Islamis. Karimullah will stop stepping out after 8pm fearing rape by Varun baba.

There you go. For a while I thought your stale favorite phrase is sensibly shelved. But sense and merlot sipping don't go toghether.

Speaking of pm power in India, it does rival us president in Indian context. Pm is the functional executive boss of the nation. Nehru enjoyed people support and derived power from people. Indira used state power to consolidate pm ship based on poor advice from idiotic Russian agents.
Current power source sonia enjoys power through the supplicant mms.

Rahul can do lot of harm like his mother did with dividing ap without preparing the ground work. Rahul will also get nuclear trigger and mommy may not be there to tell him what to do in a crisis. Really dangerous.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

rawemotions wrote:Looking at various news reports, and connecting them, I have a feeling that J&K terrorists, their supporters across the border, egged on by Pakistan, are going to bring it to turmoil around end 2013, 2014.

I have a feeling, that the J&K government, will be sabotaged from inside, and some sort of incident (both at the border and inside) will be created to bring it to standstill, where even the J&K government will not function. The Army will be the only one holding forth, but the entire civil administration will be forced (with inside supporters) to side with terrorists. This might include the government also, since folks like PDP are quasi separatists anyway, with even Omar's party forcing to yield to sympathisers embedded within the administration, threatening to bring the administration to standstill

By allowing folks like Hurriyat to hold parleys with Pakistanis in Pakistan, India is unwittingly facilitating co-ordination among all these. In addition, during 2014, the US will be leveraged with Pakistan in Afghanistan, so US might not be inclined to  police Pakistan as in Kargil war. And it will also co-incide with Parliament elections in India. A virtual take over of the state could be planned.

Pakistan is sure to test the waters of US reaction, by smaller incidents until 2014. The one we saw (about mutilation of two soldiers) the first , although this one gave Pakistani Army to regain its prominence, citing tensions with India, to push through (with Qadri as puppet), a caretaker government during elections in Pakistan. Only then can a pliant government be appointed in Islamabad. Most prob. it could be Imran Khan's party, who has been losing support off late.

Indian FM and NSA's do not seem to have a clue.

2013 and more importantly 2014 are likely to be trying times for India.

There is only one way...Talk in a language that the PakiSaitanis and the iSlamis understand.

Carpet Bombing.

Yeah. Carpet bombing CH and other boards with 500-word verbal diarrhea, accompanied by the usual frenzied, limpwristed breastbeating will definitely send out a very strong message to those Islamis. Karimullah will stop stepping out after 8pm fearing rape by Varun baba.

Just proves that you are a complete nutcase. This was not some random lament!. I made a prediction which has been proved right! When you have the knowledge to make such a prediction that gets proved right, please come and talk here!
 
Otherwise stay off such topics. Given that all your comments have only one single purpose (to comment against others), you are just exposing your ignorance. We all do not need to be reminded repeatedly  about your ignorance, we have ample examples in the past.

rawemotions wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

rawemotions wrote:Looking at various news reports, and connecting them, I have a feeling that J&K terrorists, their supporters across the border, egged on by Pakistan, are going to bring it to turmoil around end 2013, 2014.

I have a feeling, that the J&K government, will be sabotaged from inside, and some sort of incident (both at the border and inside) will be created to bring it to standstill, where even the J&K government will not function. The Army will be the only one holding forth, but the entire civil administration will be forced (with inside supporters) to side with terrorists. This might include the government also, since folks like PDP are quasi separatists anyway, with even Omar's party forcing to yield to sympathisers embedded within the administration, threatening to bring the administration to standstill

By allowing folks like Hurriyat to hold parleys with Pakistanis in Pakistan, India is unwittingly facilitating co-ordination among all these. In addition, during 2014, the US will be leveraged with Pakistan in Afghanistan, so US might not be inclined to  police Pakistan as in Kargil war. And it will also co-incide with Parliament elections in India. A virtual take over of the state could be planned.

Pakistan is sure to test the waters of US reaction, by smaller incidents until 2014. The one we saw (about mutilation of two soldiers) the first , although this one gave Pakistani Army to regain its prominence, citing tensions with India, to push through (with Qadri as puppet), a caretaker government during elections in Pakistan. Only then can a pliant government be appointed in Islamabad. Most prob. it could be Imran Khan's party, who has been losing support off late.

Indian FM and NSA's do not seem to have a clue.

2013 and more importantly 2014 are likely to be trying times for India.

There is only one way...Talk in a language that the PakiSaitanis and the iSlamis understand.

Carpet Bombing.

Yeah. Carpet bombing CH and other boards with 500-word verbal diarrhea, accompanied by the usual frenzied, limpwristed breastbeating will definitely send out a very strong message to those Islamis. Karimullah will stop stepping out after 8pm fearing rape by Varun baba.

Just proves that you are a complete nutcase. This was not some random lament!. I made a prediction which has been proved right! When you have the knowledge to make such a prediction that gets proved right, please come and talk here!
 
Otherwise stay off such topics. Given that all your comments have only one single purpose (to comment against others), you are just exposing your ignorance. We all do not need to be reminded repeatedly  about your ignorance, we have ample examples in the past.

Oh I'm so sorry. I thought this was just another pointless, hysterical, limpwristed breastbeating that you and Upps Aunty regularly indulge in.

You know, it's really difficult for clueless nutcases like me to figure out which ones are which. It would be very helpful if you could preface your non-random laments with a note saying that it is not just another pointless, hysterical, limpwristed breastbeating. I promise to stay off such threads.