Shashi Tharoor: Celebrating India's linguistic diversity

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:18 am

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:19 am

this is a pusillanimous article.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:34 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:this is a pusillanimous article.

Just because a person is a nationalist (instead of being a regionalist) doesn't mean he is a coward.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:35 pm

KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:57 pm

in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:08 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

The day a majority (or close to majority) of Indians would know English is the day I would be with you on this issue.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:32 pm

there is no point trying to talk to zombie like objects impervious to coffee and logic.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:36 pm

Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:55 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

I regard PP my intellectual inferior. As I recall even you would express displeasure at PP (along with Seva) at PP's penchant to keep arguing about the Vedas, Upanisads, and other aspects of Hindu philosophy even though he himself admitted that he has never done any study of the subjects he would argue about.

I suppose PP is now the intellectual superior of Seva and me because you consider it wiser not to annoy PP lest his minions start flaming you. I am also saddened to notice you thinking of yourself more as a Telugu than as an Indian lately. I always disliked the communal aspect of your personality but I also admired the nationalist and patriot in you.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:58 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there is no point trying to talk to zombie like objects impervious to coffee and logic.

There will come a day when English will be understood by a majority of Indians. At that time I will be on your side and I will oppose (in fact I still oppose) those who oppose the spread of English. So cheer up.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:32 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

I regard PP my intellectual inferior. As I recall even you would express displeasure at PP (along with Seva) at PP's penchant to keep arguing about the Vedas, Upanisads, and other aspects of Hindu philosophy even though he himself admitted that he has never done any study of the subjects he would argue about.

I suppose PP is now the intellectual superior of Seva and me because you consider it wiser not to annoy PP lest his minions start flaming you. I am also saddened to notice you thinking of yourself more as a Telugu than as an Indian lately. I always disliked the communal aspect of your personality but I also admired the nationalist and patriot in you.

I didn't complete the ranking. Seva > PP. Bittu > Seva, MD > Bittu, Rishi > MD, KV > MD ....................

Now, I must be a supporter of Tabloids, Nagas and LTTE.

by b_A Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:52 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

I regard PP my intellectual inferior. As I recall even you would express displeasure at PP (along with Seva) at PP's penchant to keep arguing about the Vedas, Upanisads, and other aspects of Hindu philosophy even though he himself admitted that he has never done any study of the subjects he would argue about.

I suppose PP is now the intellectual superior of Seva and me because you consider it wiser not to annoy PP lest his minions start flaming you. I am also saddened to notice you thinking of yourself more as a Telugu than as an Indian lately. I always disliked the communal aspect of your personality but I also admired the nationalist and patriot in you.

That's your main problem right there. You don't understand the reality that almost everyone in this forum is intellectually superior to you. The day you understand that, 99% of your problems will be solved.

by b_A Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:54 pm

b_A wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

I regard PP my intellectual inferior. As I recall even you would express displeasure at PP (along with Seva) at PP's penchant to keep arguing about the Vedas, Upanisads, and other aspects of Hindu philosophy even though he himself admitted that he has never done any study of the subjects he would argue about.

I suppose PP is now the intellectual superior of Seva and me because you consider it wiser not to annoy PP lest his minions start flaming you. I am also saddened to notice you thinking of yourself more as a Telugu than as an Indian lately. I always disliked the communal aspect of your personality but I also admired the nationalist and patriot in you.

That's your main problem right there. You don't understand the reality that almost everyone in this forum is intellectually superior to you. The day you understand that, 99% of your problems will be solved.

The usual disclaimer,"Yes, I was speaking the tooth I mean truth there".

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:48 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t341-shashi-tharoor-celebrating-india-s-linguistic-diversity#711

You are a better expert than Shashi Tharoor. PP is better than you.

So, is PP a better expert than Shashi Tharoor on India?

I regard PP my intellectual inferior. As I recall even you would express displeasure at PP (along with Seva) at PP's penchant to keep arguing about the Vedas, Upanisads, and other aspects of Hindu philosophy even though he himself admitted that he has never done any study of the subjects he would argue about.

I suppose PP is now the intellectual superior of Seva and me because you consider it wiser not to annoy PP lest his minions start flaming you. I am also saddened to notice you thinking of yourself more as a Telugu than as an Indian lately. I always disliked the (what i perceived to be) communal aspect of your personality but I also admired the nationalist and patriot in you.

I didn't complete the ranking. Seva > PP. Bittu > Seva, MD > Bittu, Rishi > MD, KV > MD ....................

Now, I must be a supporter of Tabloids, Nagas and LTTE.

Thanks for the clarification.

by bw Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:26 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

using english while openly celebrating our 'independence' from the british will be funny. has anyone else delivered the address in english? maybe sanskrit should be used.

by Kayalvizhi Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:30 am

nehru

by bw Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:nehru

true - tryst with destiny was delivered in english.

anyone after that?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:00 am

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

using english while openly celebrating our 'independence' from the british will be funny. has anyone else delivered the address in english? maybe sanskrit should be used.

english is very much an indian langauge no matter what the "patriots" say. how are we communicating on this board? do south american countries still have a slave mentality because they use spanish in their daily lives?

by Hellsangel Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:04 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

english is very much an indian langauge no matter what the "patriots" say. how are we communicating on this board? do south american countries still have a slave mentality because they use spanish in their daily lives?

Bad example. That would be like asking why are we speaking English in the United States. A better example would be any of the other former colonies.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:10 am

why is it a bad example? the case in the US is a little different. most people in the US are immigrants. not the case with central and south american countries.

by Hellsangel Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:16 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:why is it a bad example? the case in the US is a little different. most people in the US are immigrants. not the case with central and south american countries.

Most of them have at least some Spanish ancestry. That is why it is a bad example.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

using english while openly celebrating our 'independence' from the british will be funny. has anyone else delivered the address in english? maybe sanskrit should be used.

english is very much an indian langauge no matter what the "patriots" say. how are we communicating on this board? do south american countries still have a slave mentality because they use spanish in their daily lives?

In South and central America, the Spanish were brutal in imposing their ways. The natives all across the Americas were treated like dirt by goras while establishing their rule.

In India, the colonialists were not as brutal. However, Indians should treat English as a link language and a second language. Regional languages should be fostered. Otherwise, the culture will die. As much as it has become fashionable to blame everything Indian, there are certain values that need preserving. Language is one way. I disagree with Rashmun about Hindi. Hindi's importance is declining as NIs are getting educated and going to SI for jobs. Imposing Hindi on SIs is no longer needed and is, in fact, regressive. It should be fostered as a regional language just like Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Gujarati, etc.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:31 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?

assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:42 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.

and the other side will say that there is no point in giving the speech in hindi because half the country doesn't understand hindi, and then you will laboriously and painfully pull from all corners of the internets anecdotal data that says otherwise, with links that yellamma from cuddapah, vasanthi rao from mysore, muniyamma from chingelput, and sugandhi nair from allepey are all cheerfully taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas across the southern states, with multi colored bolded cut and paste articles of actual quotes (you know to separate from your own writing), and then it will go on and on and on. no thanks.

by goodcitizn Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:02 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.

and the other side will say that there is no point in giving the speech in hindi because half the country doesn't understand hindi, and then you will laboriously and painfully pull from all corners of the internets anecdotal data that says otherwise, with links that yellamma from cuddalore, vasanthi rao from mysore, muniyamma from chingelput, and sugandhi nair from allepey are all cheerfully taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas across the southern states, with multi colored bolded cut and paste articles of actual quotes (you know to separate from your own writing), and then it will go on and on and on. no thanks.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.

and the other side will say that there is no point in giving the speech in hindi because half the country doesn't understand hindi, and then you will laboriously and painfully pull from all corners of the internets anecdotal data that says otherwise, with links that yellamma from cuddalore, vasanthi rao from mysore, muniyamma from chingelput, and sugandhi nair from allepey are all cheerfully taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas across the southern states, with multi colored bolded cut and paste articles of actual quotes (you know to separate from your own writing), and then it will go on and on and on. no thanks.

I am glad you agree that at least half of India understands hindi. Is there any other Language in India which can claim this level of penetration? If yes I will support making that language the national language.
I have always maintained that English will some day replace hindi as the link language and I am all for spreading and propagating English.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:25 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.

i know that you disagree. i don't know what you mean by "there is no point." the purpose of the speech is to convey an inspiring message to the people of india. no matter what language was used, hundreds of millions of people would not have understood the speech. that's the reality of india. that's not a difficult problem to solve; translation into any number of languages is quite easily done, as it routinely is, in the united nations.

by Obnoxious Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:37 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

The day a majority (or close to majority) of Indians would know English is the day I would be with you on this issue.

Hindi is spoken by 41% of Indians. It is not a majority. Going by your logic most world speeches should be Mandarin. Mandarin has highest number of speakers.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:43 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas...

what are cluckini and duckini? i may have heard pp use those words in his fights with rashmun.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:44 pm

Silk Smitha wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

The day a majority (or close to majority) of Indians would know English is the day I would be with you on this issue.

Hindi is spoken by 41% of Indians. It is not a majority. Going by your logic most world speeches should be Mandarin. Mandarin has highest number of speakers.

The word I used was 'understand' not 'spoken'. Also I dispute the 41% figure. I have come across regionalists who pretend not to know hindi even when they do know the language. In the context of South India, I have pointed out the existence and prevalence of the Dakhini language which is a variant of Hindi. Also since colloquial Hindi and colloquial Urdu are the same they must be considered as the same language.

We are talking here of a language which most Indians can understand, and Mandarin does not fit the bill.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:49 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:KV has addressed some of the reasons why this article is pusillanimous. i agree with nearly all of what she has written. there is nothing laudable about a PM reading out a hindi speech that he doesn't understand out a document written in kannada script. that a prime minister would read a speech he doesn't even understand is at once both stupid and dangerous.

further he says it is "typically" indian to speak to one's mother in malayalam, father in english, driver in hindi and so on. i am sorry, but that is typically southern indian, not indian. the typical northindian, to wit rashmun, speaks hindi and then lectures the rest of india about learning hindi. tharoor is nothing but a spineless southern indian politician.

he writes an article about linguistic diversity in india and doesn't even once mention the virulent politics of the issue, and the tamilians' historically consistent and courageous stand on thwarting hindi imposition in the 60s!

tharoor's article = EPIC FAIL

KV is saying that Deve Gowda should have given his indepence day speeches in Kannada? Do you agree with this? Or are you of the opinion that he should have given them in English--a language which only 5-10 % of Indians understand?
assuming that kannada is the language deve gowda knows best, he should have given the speech in kannada.

I respectfully disagree. There is no point in a Prime Minister addressing his countrymen in a language which most do not understand.
i know that you disagree. i don't know what you mean by "there is no point." the purpose of the speech is to convey an inspiring message to the people of india. no matter what language was used, hundreds of millions of people would not have understood the speech. that's the reality of india. that's not a difficult problem to solve; translation into any number of languages is quite easily done, as it routinely is, in the united nations.

I am noting your point. Doing something like this will help all Indians better appreciate the linguistic diversity in India. I still feel that giving the speech in English eventually will be the better solution. If most Indians whose first language is not hindi believe that English should be used by the PM for Independence day speeches then I will not oppose such a demand.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:54 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas...
what are cluckini and duckini? i may have heard pp use those words in his fights with rashmun.

they are names i invented some time ago to make fun of rashmun's frequent reference to dakhini, a language he has claimed was the forerunner of hindi itself and spoken widely in the south including vast swathes of TN. dakhini became duckini and then acquired a companion, cluckini. having grown up in TN, i was surprised that i had never heard of dakhini and realized that this is one of rashmun's many exaggerations about the use of hindi in the south. i suppose the original dakhini may have meant dakshini the language spoken in the south, or deccani, the language spoken in the deccan. i couldn't say.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:taking cluckini classes from duckini prachar sabhas...
what are cluckini and duckini? i may have heard pp use those words in his fights with rashmun.

they are names i invented some time ago to make fun of rashmun's frequent reference to dakhini, a language he has claimed was the forerunner of hindi itself and spoken widely in the south including vast swathes of TN. dakhini became duckini and then acquired a companion, cluckini. having grown up in TN, i was surprised that i had never heard of dakhini and realized that this is one of rashmun's many exaggerations about the use of hindi in the south. i suppose the original dakhini may have meant dakshini the language spoken in the south, or deccani, the language spoken in the deccan. i couldn't say.

I made the claim about Dakhini based on my personal observations in SI, and also based on what I read in severa online articles. This is, I believe, a Kannadiga writing about Dakhini:

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

And this is a Maharashtrian writing about it:
http://www.makarand.com/acad/HindiHainHum.htm

Both articles by people whose first language is not hindi. Max's inherent bias makes him unable or unwilling to accept reality when it comes to the Dakhini language and so he is obliged to twist and distort facts.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:07 pm

I am happy to note though that Max agrees that colloquial hindi and Urdu are the same language. For some reason he takes offense at the suggestion that Hindi-Urdu in SI is also known by the term Dakhini.

There is a lot of Dakhini literature from medieval to modern times.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:23 pm

Whether the term Dakhini has historically been used as a synonym for Hindi-Urdu in South India is something to be addressed by scholars, and not philistines.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:26 pm

Rashmun wrote:Whether the term Dakhini has historically been used as a synonym for Hindi-Urdu in South India is something to be addressed by scholars, and not philistines.

it's a name for a language according to you. if it's that widespread, you'd think people would have heard of it.

by Obnoxious Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:27 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Silk Smitha wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

The day a majority (or close to majority) of Indians would know English is the day I would be with you on this issue.

Hindi is spoken by 41% of Indians. It is not a majority. Going by your logic most world speeches should be Mandarin. Mandarin has highest number of speakers.

The word I used was 'understand' not 'spoken'. Also I dispute the 41% figure. I have come across regionalists who pretend not to know hindi even when they do know the language. In the context of South India, I have pointed out the existence and prevalence of the Dakhini language which is a variant of Hindi. Also since colloquial Hindi and colloquial Urdu are the same they must be considered as the same language.

We are talking here of a language which most Indians can understand, and Mandarin does not fit the bill.

Most folks in non-hindi speaking regions speak or understand Hindi including the folks who studied Hindi in school. This happens even in North India. Dakhini is spoken only in specific parts of Southern India. In Andhra it is spoken only in Hyderabad. That too in old city not in the other parts.

My point is Hindi is very regional and majority of Indians neither speak nor understand Hindi. Making Hindi national language makes as much sense to making mandarin as common language of the world.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:28 pm

“A Deccani, on being once asked whom he considered the greater personage, the Prophet Muhammad or the Saiyid, replied, with some surprise at the question, that although the Prophet was undoubtedly a great man, yet Saiyid Muhammad Gisu-daraz was a far superior order of being.” Muhammad Qasim Firishta (d. 1611)

In July 1321, about the time Ulugh Khan's army was sent to Warangal to recover the unpaid tribute owed by Pratapa Rudra, an infant son was born in Delhi to a distinguished family of Saiyids – that is, men who claimed descent from the Prophet. Although he lived most of his life in Delhi, Saiyid Muhammad Husaini Gisu Daraz would become known mainly for his work in the Deccan, where he died in 1422 at the ripe age of just over a hundred years.

As seen in the extract from Firishta's history quoted above, this figure occupies a very special place in Deccani popular religion: soon after his death his tomb-shrine in Gulbarga became the most important object of Muslim devotion in the Deccan. It remains so today. He also stands out in the Muslim mystical tradition, as he was the first Indian shaikh to put his thoughts directly to writing, as opposed to having disciples record his conversations. But most importantly, Gisu Daraz contributed to the stabilization and indigenization of Indo-Muslim society and polity in the Deccan, as earlier generations of Sufi shaikhs had already done in Tughluq north India. In the broader context of Indo-Muslim thought and practice, his career helped transform the Deccan from what had been an infidel land available for plunder by north Indian dynasts, to a legally inviolable abode of peace.

http://histories.cambridge.org/extract?id=chol9780521254847_CHOL9780521254847A004

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My understanding is that Gisu Daraz's written works while he was in the Deccan were all in Dakhini. Notice that he was a northerner in southern India.

by confuzzled dude Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:57 pm

Rashmun wrote: In the broader context of Indo-Muslim thought and practice, his career helped transform the Deccan from what had been an infidel land available for plunder by north Indian dynasts, to a legally inviolable abode of peace.

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My understanding is that Gisu Daraz's written works while he was in the Deccan were all in Dakhini. Notice that he was a northerner in southern India.

What does it mean! He meant, by north Indian Muslim dynasties.

by artood2 Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:44 am

quote="MaxEntropy_Man"]in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi. [/quote]

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

The day a majority (or close to majority) of Indians would know English is the day I would be with you on this issue. [/quote]

so lets pick the language least spoken for the speech.... and have ticker in 33 languages on DD with the translation..

by Guest Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:51 am

artood2 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?

it is time for a language based reservation policy to protect the disadvantaged non-hindian minority from hindian language-persecution.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 am

english is the language of the world. you cannot deny that privileging any indian language over the others has an inherent political risk. in that sense english is neutral. therefore, i have no problem at all having speeches in english and translations provided in regional languages like marathi, bengali, kannada, and hindi.

alternatively the speech can be given in the politician's native language and translated into regional languages.

by artood2 Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
artood2 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?
it is time for a language based reservation policy so that the disadvantaged non-hindian minority can be protected from hindian language persecution.

I agree. This will allow all those punjabi, bengali, tamil, malyalam, marathi speaking folks to occupy posts like PM, Prez, finance, defence etc etc...

by artood2 Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:56 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:english is the language of the world. you cannot deny that privileging any indian language over the others has an inherent political risk. in that sense english is neutral. therefore, i have no problem at all having speeches in english and translations provided in regional languages like marathi, bengali, kannada, and hindi.

alternatively the speech can be given in the politician's native language and translated into regional languages.

You it is the langugage of the world, its a minor inconvenience that the masses do not understand it. As I understand all political rallies are being conducted in English. Yeah that speech by owaisi was also in English.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:09 am

artood2 wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
artood2 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?
it is time for a language based reservation policy so that the disadvantaged non-hindian minority can be protected from hindian language persecution.

I agree. This will allow all those punjabi, bengali, tamil, malyalam, marathi speaking folks to occupy posts like PM, Prez, finance, defence etc etc...

the name of the language is "malayalam," not "malyalam." it's not "malyal" either.

by artood2 Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:11 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
artood2 wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
artood2 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in english with translations offered in local languages like tamil, kannada, and hindi.

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?
it is time for a language based reservation policy so that the disadvantaged non-hindian minority can be protected from hindian language persecution.

I agree. This will allow all those punjabi, bengali, tamil, malyalam, marathi speaking folks to occupy posts like PM, Prez, finance, defence etc etc...
the name of the language is "malayalam," not "malyalam." it's not "malyal" either.

oh welcome the human spell checker, I misheed your shervices.

by Guest Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:20 am

artood2 wrote:oh welcome the human spell checker

i am suddenly feeling nostalgic for my tik tik tik remington typewriter.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:27 am

artood2 wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
artood2 wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
artood2 wrote:

Why not in Hindi, which the majority of Indians can understand, with translations in other languages?
it is time for a language based reservation policy so that the disadvantaged non-hindian minority can be protected from hindian language persecution.

I agree. This will allow all those punjabi, bengali, tamil, malyalam, marathi speaking folks to occupy posts like PM, Prez, finance, defence etc etc...
the name of the language is "malayalam," not "malyalam." it's not "malyal" either.

oh welcome the human spell checker, I misheed your shervices.

thank you. however, what was checked was ignorance - of southern india and southern indian languages - not spelling.

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