Govinda Govinda

doofus_maximus wrote:The image of Lord Venkateswara will soon appear on the dial of the watches made by Switzerland-based Centurion watch company. Company representatives met Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) Executive Officer L.V. Subrahmanyam on Wednesday and sought his permission to use the image of the Lord on the watch dial. The company will make 333 diamond-studded watches, each worth several crores of rupees, to be auctioned in London. It has come forward to donate a percentage of its profit to the TTD-run Balaji Institute of Surgery and Relief and Rehabilitation of the Disabled (BIRRD) Trust.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

doofus_maximus wrote:The image of Lord Venkateswara will soon appear on the dial of the watches made by Switzerland-based Centurion watch company. Company representatives met Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) Executive Officer L.V. Subrahmanyam on Wednesday and sought his permission to use the image of the Lord on the watch dial. The company will make 333 diamond-studded watches, each worth several crores of rupees, to be auctioned in London. It has come forward to donate a percentage of its profit to the TTD-run Balaji Institute of Surgery and Relief and Rehabilitation of the Disabled (BIRRD) Trust.

Makes no sense for the temple to get involved in this, especially to give permission to the watch co. to put Lord Venkateswara image on the watch-dial

goodcitizn wrote:Reminds me ...

A guy owned an alsatian and a rottweiler named timex and rolex ... because?

Feel free to answer.

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Reminds me ...

A guy owned an alsatian and a rottweiler named timex and rolex ... because?

Feel free to answer.

They were watch dogs.

goodcitizn wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

doofus_maximus wrote:The image of Lord Venkateswara will soon appear on the dial of the watches made by Switzerland-based Centurion watch company. Company representatives met Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) Executive Officer L.V. Subrahmanyam on Wednesday and sought his permission to use the image of the Lord on the watch dial. The company will make 333 diamond-studded watches, each worth several crores of rupees, to be auctioned in London. It has come forward to donate a percentage of its profit to the TTD-run Balaji Institute of Surgery and Relief and Rehabilitation of the Disabled (BIRRD) Trust.

Makes no sense for the temple to get involved in this, especially to give permission to the watch co. to put Lord Venkateswara image on the watch-dial

What's wrong with that? Part of the proceeds are going to TTD charities. It is not Marlboro who is asking for permission to place Lord Venkateswara's picture on the cover. (Of course, Indian beedis have Ganesha on the label!)

Impedimenta wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Reminds me ...

A guy owned an alsatian and a rottweiler named timex and rolex ... because?

Feel free to answer.

They were watch dogs.

we need a hitting head against the wall icon ASAP. i don't like the GULT admin or else i would ask him for an icon.

panini press wrote:

Impedimenta wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Reminds me ...

A guy owned an alsatian and a rottweiler named timex and rolex ... because?

Feel free to answer.

They were watch dogs.

we need a hitting head against the wall icon ASAP. i don't like the GULT admin or else i would ask him for an icon.

You don't like me, but I will still help you...

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

doofus_maximus wrote:The image of Lord Venkateswara will soon appear on the dial of the watches made by Switzerland-based Centurion watch company. Company representatives met Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) Executive Officer L.V. Subrahmanyam on Wednesday and sought his permission to use the image of the Lord on the watch dial. The company will make 333 diamond-studded watches, each worth several crores of rupees, to be auctioned in London. It has come forward to donate a percentage of its profit to the TTD-run Balaji Institute of Surgery and Relief and Rehabilitation of the Disabled (BIRRD) Trust.

Makes no sense for the temple to get involved in this, especially to give permission to the watch co. to put Lord Venkateswara image on the watch-dial

What's wrong with that? Part of the proceeds are going to TTD charities. It is not Marlboro who is asking for permission to place Lord Venkateswara's picture on the cover. (Of course, Indian beedis have Ganesha on the label!)

That is the whole point. Companies and private people misusing deity's image on their own is one thing, but for a temple (priest etc.) to allow its deity to be used for money in a commercial venture is really low and insulting, especially to the deity. It matters little where or on what type of charitable projects the money received from such ventures is used.

goodcitizn wrote:
I disagree. Would you rather turn a blind eye to those commercial ventures that use the deity as a logo without permission but take issue with a Swiss company that has legally obtained permission to use the image on its product, agreeing to offer a part of the profit (akin to royalty) to the temple's trust for its charitable cause? Tirupati, whether you like it or not, is run like a business with different ticket rates for different lines to see the deity as well as selling its hair-offerings. It is perhaps the wealthiest devasthanam in the world raking in money. What is low and insulting is not this but TTD's lack of morality in throwing the red carpet to receive Rajapakse who along with his cohorts are alleged to have committed mass murders of innocent civilians, especially children.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
I disagree. Would you rather turn a blind eye to those commercial ventures that use the deity as a logo without permission but take issue with a Swiss company that has legally obtained permission to use the image on its product, agreeing to offer a part of the profit (akin to royalty) to the temple's trust for its charitable cause? Tirupati, whether you like it or not, is run like a business with different ticket rates for different lines to see the deity as well as selling its hair-offerings. It is perhaps the wealthiest devasthanam in the world raking in money. What is low and insulting is not this but TTD's lack of morality in throwing the red carpet to receive Rajapakse who along with his cohorts are alleged to have committed mass murders of innocent civilians, especially children.

It makes no difference whether you agree or disagree with me or how much mismanaged and badly run the TTD and Triputi temple are.
Religiously and spiritually, the deity, whether in a temple setting (including as Lord Venkateswara) or ouside the temple, is invoked so that the worship and prayer can be offered to God at the personal level, giving devotees a chance to worship / pray at the physical level.
The deity is not meant for any type of financial ventures or business dealings (including charities), directly or indirectly. Note also that money / expenses related to worship / prayer (whether in a temple or outside) should be kept at a minimum and at an easily affordable level, without having to resort to begging, borrowing, gambling, cheating, stealing, mindless fund raising and business ventures.

goodcitizn wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
I disagree. Would you rather turn a blind eye to those commercial ventures that use the deity as a logo without permission but take issue with a Swiss company that has legally obtained permission to use the image on its product, agreeing to offer a part of the profit (akin to royalty) to the temple's trust for its charitable cause? Tirupati, whether you like it or not, is run like a business with different ticket rates for different lines to see the deity as well as selling its hair-offerings. It is perhaps the wealthiest devasthanam in the world raking in money. What is low and insulting is not this but TTD's lack of morality in throwing the red carpet to receive Rajapakse who along with his cohorts are alleged to have committed mass murders of innocent civilians, especially children.

It makes no difference whether you agree or disagree with me or how much mismanaged and badly run the TTD and Triputi temple are.
Religiously and spiritually, the deity, whether in a temple setting (including as Lord Venkateswara) or ouside the temple, is invoked so that the worship and prayer can be offered to God at the personal level, giving devotees a chance to worship / pray at the physical level.
The deity is not meant for any type of financial ventures or business dealings (including charities), directly or indirectly. Note also that money / expenses related to worship / prayer (whether in a temple or outside) should be kept at a minimum and at an easily affordable level, without having to resort to begging, borrowing, gambling, cheating, stealing, mindless fund raising and business ventures.

You are not being practical, just idealistic. Did you ever consider why so many temples are in dire straits and on the brink of closing down because there is no funding available for their upkeep, including paying the priests? The Iscon temple in Bangalore is an example of a clean and well-run temple serving as a tourist spot as well. The proceeds are used for numerous charitable causes including giving midday meals to school children. Most temples are not able to continue purely on donations and require financial support. It makes no sense to continue a meaningful discussion with you when you take the position that fund raising involves cheating, gambling, stealing etc.

goodcitizn wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
I disagree. Would you rather turn a blind eye to those commercial ventures that use the deity as a logo without permission but take issue with a Swiss company that has legally obtained permission to use the image on its product, agreeing to offer a part of the profit (akin to royalty) to the temple's trust for its charitable cause? Tirupati, whether you like it or not, is run like a business with different ticket rates for different lines to see the deity as well as selling its hair-offerings. It is perhaps the wealthiest devasthanam in the world raking in money. What is low and insulting is not this but TTD's lack of morality in throwing the red carpet to receive Rajapakse who along with his cohorts are alleged to have committed mass murders of innocent civilians, especially children.

It makes no difference whether you agree or disagree with me or how much mismanaged and badly run the TTD and Triputi temple are.
Religiously and spiritually, the deity, whether in a temple setting (including as Lord Venkateswara) or ouside the temple, is invoked so that the worship and prayer can be offered to God at the personal level, giving devotees a chance to worship / pray at the physical level.
The deity is not meant for any type of financial ventures or business dealings (including charities), directly or indirectly. Note also that money / expenses related to worship / prayer (whether in a temple or outside) should be kept at a minimum and at an easily affordable level, without having to resort to begging, borrowing, gambling, cheating, stealing, mindless fund raising and business ventures.

You are not being practical, just idealistic. Did you ever consider why so many temples are in dire straits and on the brink of closing down because there is no funding available for their upkeep, including paying the priests? The Iscon temple in Bangalore is an example of a clean and well-run temple serving as a tourist spot as well. The proceeds are used for numerous charitable causes including giving midday meals to school children. Most temples are not able to continue purely on donations and require financial support. It makes no sense to continue a meaningful discussion with you when you take the position that fund raising involves cheating, gambling, stealing etc.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
I disagree. Would you rather turn a blind eye to those commercial ventures that use the deity as a logo without permission but take issue with a Swiss company that has legally obtained permission to use the image on its product, agreeing to offer a part of the profit (akin to royalty) to the temple's trust for its charitable cause? Tirupati, whether you like it or not, is run like a business with different ticket rates for different lines to see the deity as well as selling its hair-offerings. It is perhaps the wealthiest devasthanam in the world raking in money. What is low and insulting is not this but TTD's lack of morality in throwing the red carpet to receive Rajapakse who along with his cohorts are alleged to have committed mass murders of innocent civilians, especially children.

It makes no difference whether you agree or disagree with me or how much mismanaged and badly run the TTD and Triputi temple are.
Religiously and spiritually, the deity, whether in a temple setting (including as Lord Venkateswara) or ouside the temple, is invoked so that the worship and prayer can be offered to God at the personal level, giving devotees a chance to worship / pray at the physical level.
The deity is not meant for any type of financial ventures or business dealings (including charities), directly or indirectly. Note also that money / expenses related to worship / prayer (whether in a temple or outside) should be kept at a minimum and at an easily affordable level, without having to resort to begging, borrowing, gambling, cheating, stealing, mindless fund raising and business ventures.

You are not being practical, just idealistic. Did you ever consider why so many temples are in dire straits and on the brink of closing down because there is no funding available for their upkeep, including paying the priests? The Iscon temple in Bangalore is an example of a clean and well-run temple serving as a tourist spot as well. The proceeds are used for numerous charitable causes including giving midday meals to school children. Most temples are not able to continue purely on donations and require financial support. It makes no sense to continue a meaningful discussion with you when you take the position that fund raising involves cheating, gambling, stealing etc.

I already listed the religious / spiritual view (according to the Vedas) regarding the worship / prayer. Vedas are emphatic about keeping the greedy away from the place of Yajna. These types of financial deals using the image of the deity, even if meant for raising more money for a charity, are a sign of greed (the deity is used directly to raise funds, especially more money). In this regard, the Gita also (Ch. 17: verses 11, 12 and 13) states that activities and offerings involved in the worship / prayer should be simple, pure and without expectation of rewards.

Note also that after this deal is made by the temple with a Swiss co. to allow the deity's image to be used in a financial deal, the temple may not be able to stop another company next time on legal or moral grounds if that company chooses to display Triputi deity's image on its product without permission or while offering less money to the temple.

Moreover, considering Lord Venkateshwara's image is not the sole property of Triputi temple trust, other people (not associated with the temple or perhaps not even Hindus) might also start making deals with companies and businesses on their own using the deity's image and the temple won't be able to stop them even on moral grounds since it is doing the same thing.

goodcitizn wrote:

I just don't get you. Tirupati Venkateshwara's image is being used left, right and center by all sorts of companies from barber shops, taxi rental outfits, agarpathy manufacturers, pappad producers to movie distributors without getting any legal permission from TTD and without sharing even a paisa of the profit they make with TTD despite the fact that Lord Venkateshwara is a hot merchandisable commercial commodity to them, not just a deity. Now here comes a swiss company that is willing to do it legally and share some of the proceeds with the temple's trust for its charitable causes, and you cry foul calling it GREED.

Let us say that a 5-year-old meets you on the grounds of a temple, points out to you all the mango trees around and tells you that people just steal mangoes from the premises to sell them outside as "Lord Venkateshwara Mangoes" for sizeable profits keeping the money to themselves, and that he'd like to get permission from the temple to also sell them but give back some of the proceeds to the temple. Would you then advise him not to ask for permission (since God and Gita are against greed) but steal and sell the mangoes the way others do so that no precedence is set?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

I just don't get you. Tirupati Venkateshwara's image is being used left, right and center by all sorts of companies from barber shops, taxi rental outfits, agarpathy manufacturers, pappad producers to movie distributors without getting any legal permission from TTD and without sharing even a paisa of the profit they make with TTD despite the fact that Lord Venkateshwara is a hot merchandisable commercial commodity to them, not just a deity. Now here comes a swiss company that is willing to do it legally and share some of the proceeds with the temple's trust for its charitable causes, and you cry foul calling it GREED.

Let us say that a 5-year-old meets you on the grounds of a temple, points out to you all the mango trees around and tells you that people just steal mangoes from the premises to sell them outside as "Lord Venkateshwara Mangoes" for sizeable profits keeping the money to themselves, and that he'd like to get permission from the temple to also sell them but give back some of the proceeds to the temple. Would you then advise him not to ask for permission (since God and Gita are against greed) but steal and sell the mangoes the way others do so that no precedence is set?

Tirupti temple's duty, as the "official" devotee / representative of its deity (Lord Venkateshawara), is to set a good example to people and businesses by not doing the promotion and sales of goods in its deity's name. The temple does not need to follow the example of others who are misusing the image of its deity in the promotion and sales of watches and mangoes. It is a privilege for the temple to be associated with the deity (as Lord Venkateshawa) for the sake of worship and prayer but that is not a right to the temple to sell or rent the image of deity to promote the sale of wateches and mangoes.

goodcitizn wrote:
In other words, you'd hand the little boy the Bhagavat Gita book and ask him to read page 72 paragraph 4 and line 2, not bothering to give him an answer.