Karan Thapar:Is Tamil nationalism spiralling out of control and threatening India's interests?

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:19 am

http://ibnlive.in.com/shows/The-Last-Word.html

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:31 pm

What DMK-ADMK are doing is not that different from what Mulayam and Nitish are doing. DKheads are using Sri Lankan Tamils as the bait for their political games while BIMARUs are using bhaiyyas and Biharis as a bait for central funds. In fact, the planning commission has come out complaining that BIMARUs are not using the funds that are allocated; they are keeping the suckers in poverty to maintain the basket case status so that they can attract even more central funds while lining their pockets. TN at least has helped the economically deprived segments (and not making them a burden on the whole country). So, who are working against India's interest? Go figure.

by truthbetold Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:57 pm

Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:36 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:What DMK-ADMK are doing is not that different from what Mulayam and Nitish are doing. DKheads are using Sri Lankan Tamils as the bait for their political games while BIMARUs are using bhaiyyas and Biharis as a bait for central funds. In fact, the planning commission has come out complaining that BIMARUs are not using the funds that are allocated; they are keeping the suckers in poverty to maintain the basket case status so that they can attract even more central funds while lining their pockets. TN at least has helped the economically deprived segments (and not making them a burden on the whole country). So, who are working against India's interest? Go figure.

Do not mix up corruption with foriegn policy. Are you saying tamil leaders are not corrupt?

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:38 pm

truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:17 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:13 pm

I think Hindian nationalism is spiralling out of control and threaten India's unity.

by truthbetold Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:36 pm

Rashmun,
asking tamilians not to support sl tamils for the sake of kashmir is inappropriate. Tn tamils feel the most pain and ask for various types of action. Rest of india should work with them and come to some reasonable accomodation. It is not going tobe easy but running india is never easy.
India did drop the ball on sl tamilnissue by not pressing sl to treat tamils humanely after the ltte route. If india tried and failed, tn tamils would have had little more confidence in upa. But indifferent upa and apolitical mms do not always grasp the emotional needs of indian people. Bjp is of no use in this particular case as their leaders are still finding out what the whole fuss is about?

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:01 pm

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun,
asking tamilians not to support sl tamils for the sake of kashmir is inappropriate. Tn tamils feel the most pain and ask for various types of action. Rest of india should work with them and come to some reasonable accomodation. It is not going tobe easy but running india is never easy.
India did drop the ball on sl tamilnissue by not pressing sl to treat tamils humanely after the ltte route. If india tried and failed, tn tamils would have had little more confidence in upa. But indifferent upa and apolitical mms do not always grasp the emotional needs of indian people. Bjp is of no use in this particular case as their leaders are still finding out what the whole fuss is about?

Can India help Sri Lankan Tamils by declaring that a referendum on Eelam should take place? India should surely help Lankan Tamils but humiliating Sri Lanka and questioning the unity and integrity of Lanka is not the way to do so.

by truthbetold Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:35 pm

i would like to defer to our Tamil posters who have a better grasp of the situation to suggest. tactics. center should win the confidence of tn tamils instead of making inflammatory statements.

by Guest Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:53 pm

truthbetold wrote:i would like to defer to our Tamil posters who have a better grasp of the situation to suggest. tactics. center should win the confidence of tn tamils instead of making inflammatory statements.

Mollycoddling those who go around beating Sinhalese monks in TN is not an option. Jingoistic and xenophobic people should be told where to get off. Basically these people need a kick on their bottom so that they come to their senses. By 'these people' I refer to a small minority of Tamils who are determined to make India a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. As N. Ram has rightly said the vast majority of Tamils are against jingoism and xenophobia.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:57 pm

Rashmun wrote:As N. Ram has rightly said the vast majority of Tamils are against jingoism and xenophobia.

they are also against sweeping the crimes of a democratically elected government against ethnic tamils under the rug and act as if nothing is wrong. the sri lankan government needs to be reined in and shamed and india has an important role to play in ensuring that it happens. india must not shy away from doing what is right. that is all the TN people want. i will do my bit by writing to the US politicians.

by Rishi Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Vallal ez • a day ago −

Dont forget the INA of Netaji Subash Chandra Bose - its Tamils who formed a major part of his army. Netaji quipped he d like to be born ' a Tamil ' in his next birth. Jaiii Hiiiind !!! ( atleast telling Jaii Hiiiind will make Hindians realise Tamils also live in (H)India

To this day Netaji adorns many houses in Tamilnadu and children named after him.. Don some coward say that Tamils are not patriotic. Even the warrior Sikh community has sided with the British umpteen times.. but Tamils- never.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-tamil-nadu-is-right-to-take-a-tough-stance-against-sl-677705.html

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:20 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:As N. Ram has rightly said the vast majority of Tamils are against jingoism and xenophobia.

they are also against sweeping the crimes of a democratically elected government against ethnic tamils under the rug and act as if nothing is wrong. the sri lankan government needs to be reined in and shamed and india has an important role to play in ensuring that it happens. india must not shy away from doing what is right. that is all the TN people want. i will do my bit by writing to the US politicians.

If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:28 am

Rishi wrote:Vallal ez • a day ago −

Dont forget the INA of Netaji Subash Chandra Bose - its Tamils who formed a major part of his army. Netaji quipped he d like to be born ' a Tamil ' in his next birth. Jaiii Hiiiind !!! ( atleast telling Jaii Hiiiind will make Hindians realise Tamils also live in (H)India

To this day Netaji adorns many houses in Tamilnadu and children named after him.. Don some coward say that Tamils are not patriotic. Even the warrior Sikh community has sided with the British umpteen times.. but Tamils- never.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-tamil-nadu-is-right-to-take-a-tough-stance-against-sl-677705.html

The words you have highlighted are not true. For instance when Tipu Sultan was finally defeated by the British, the soldiers in the British army were mainly Tamils. It is also true that the Nawabs of Arcot had, like the Nizams, become British agents. The same is also true for many other Hindu and Muslim feudals including large landlords. For instance before the zamidari abolition act introduced when Nehru was PM the Moopanar family was controlling a vast tract of land between Thanjavur and Kumbakonam. This could only have been possible with the blessings of the British i.e. the Moopanar family must have become British agents.

by Uppili Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:32 am

Rashmun wrote:
If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

Reallyyy? for our benefit, can you please post the link to where you have expressed YOUR position ?

IF your answer the above question, then

When did N. Ram acknowledged you?

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:35 am

Uppili wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

Reallyyy? for our benefit, can you please post the link to where you have expressed YOUR position ?

IF your answer the above question, then

When did N. Ram acknowledged you?

https://such.forumotion.com/t12065-sensible-indian-foriegn-minister-rejects-tn-resolution-on-eelam-tn-not-the-only-state-that-has-a-stake-in-this#92888

by Uppili Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:01 am

Rashmun wrote:
Uppili wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

Reallyyy? for our benefit, can you please post the link to where you have expressed YOUR position ?

IF your answer the above question, then

When did N. Ram acknowledged you?

https://such.forumotion.com/t12065-sensible-indian-foriegn-minister-rejects-tn-resolution-on-eelam-tn-not-the-only-state-that-has-a-stake-in-this#92888

Where is YOUR opinion. You just parrotted Ram's views after posting his link. And worse, in your post just above claim that HE is agreeing with your position.

Now do you see why all SuCHERS have ALL ALONG been accusing you of stealing others views as your own and quickly claim that it was the others who copied your views?

Now waiting for your brilliant justification about how N. Ram copied YOUR original views.

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:35 am

Uppili wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Uppili wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

Reallyyy? for our benefit, can you please post the link to where you have expressed YOUR position ?

IF your answer the above question, then

When did N. Ram acknowledged you?

https://such.forumotion.com/t12065-sensible-indian-foriegn-minister-rejects-tn-resolution-on-eelam-tn-not-the-only-state-that-has-a-stake-in-this#92888

Where is YOUR opinion. You just parrotted Ram's views after posting his link. And worse, in your post just above claim that HE is agreeing with your position.

Now do you see why all SuCHERS have ALL ALONG been accusing you of stealing others views as your own and quickly claim that it was the others who copied your views?

Now waiting for your brilliant justification about how N. Ram copied YOUR original views.

Some of the things I said in my post were not said by Ram. For instance Ram does not talk specifically of the thrashing of Sinhalese Budhist monks in TN.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:40 am

the correct analogy here is that the bengalis in east pakistan were treated poorly by pakistanis. india got involved partly because of indian bengali sentiment. i don't see why it has to be any different with tamils.

by Hellsangel Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:08 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the correct analogy here is that the bengalis in east pakistan were treated poorly by pakistanis. india got involved partly because of indian bengali sentiment. i don't see why it has to be any different with tamils.

Oh, really?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:12 am

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the correct analogy here is that the bengalis in east pakistan were treated poorly by pakistanis. india got involved partly because of indian bengali sentiment. i don't see why it has to be any different with tamils.

Oh, really?

i said partly.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:34 am

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:What DMK-ADMK are doing is not that different from what Mulayam and Nitish are doing. DKheads are using Sri Lankan Tamils as the bait for their political games while BIMARUs are using bhaiyyas and Biharis as a bait for central funds. In fact, the planning commission has come out complaining that BIMARUs are not using the funds that are allocated; they are keeping the suckers in poverty to maintain the basket case status so that they can attract even more central funds while lining their pockets. TN at least has helped the economically deprived segments (and not making them a burden on the whole country). So, who are working against India's interest? Go figure.

Do not mix up corruption with foriegn policy. Are you saying tamil leaders are not corrupt?

We were discussing "national interest". Corruption, politics or foreign policy, all affect "national interest". The "basket case" behavior of UP and Bihar politicians affects "national interest" as much as the "pro-Sri Lankan Tamil" behavior or Jaya and K'nidhi.

I didn't say that Tamil leaders are not corrupt.

by SomeProfile Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:41 pm

Rashmun wrote:
If you see the video at the link in the OP in this thread you will find two senior Indian diplomats and also senior journalist N. Ram agreeing with my position. The one person in the panel discussion who agrees with your position comes across as a crackpot.

LOL! I have seen some delusional statements from you in the past, but this must take the cake. Who is the crackpot here? Who is agreeing with whose position? It is more like your position is FORMED by and after reading/viewing those articles/videos. You do not have a single original, self-thought, self-derived opinion or conclusion. Never have. Never will. Agree with your position. My foot.

by Uppili Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the correct analogy here is that the bengalis in east pakistan were treated poorly by pakistanis. india got involved partly because of indian bengali sentiment. i don't see why it has to be any different with tamils.

I disagree... The Bangladeshi (hindus) were overwhelming West Bengal and Assam. Indira saw a golden opportunity to split Pakistan so that India did not have to fight pakistan on 2 sides everytime there was a war (lesson learnt from 47, 65).

The Bengali angle was hardly a reason. Because the Hindians don't give a damn to the half-chinese (or the darkie Madrasis).

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:21 pm

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/in-india-cross-border-bengali-pride-fades-with-a-new-generation/

by Seva Lamberdar Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/in-india-cross-border-bengali-pride-fades-with-a-new-generation/

"Their (bangladeshi) government invested money for the research and preservation of Bengali culture." (in the above blog /link.

>>> According to one Bengali, a lot of money for investment in Bangladesh (including for the capital Dhaka and probably for the research and preservation of Bengali culture) was donated by Saudi Arabia. The Indian side of Bengal (WB) did not get the same kind of dough from anywhere and that probably is the reason there is a difference in development in two Bengals (East and West, including the cities Dhaka and Kolkatta) and people in East Bengal (Bangladesh) feeling strongly about their culture.

by Kris Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:33 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the correct analogy here is that the bengalis in east pakistan were treated poorly by pakistanis. india got involved partly because of indian bengali sentiment. i don't see why it has to be any different with tamils.

Oh, really?

i said partly.

>>>> I think it was primarly a case of India being overwhelmed by the refugees that trigggered the involvement. I wouldn't give much credit to Mrs G on the cultural sensitvity front or even the strategic front ( although, the latter would make sense, if some intelligent strategist had had her ear)

by Uppili Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:40 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/in-india-cross-border-bengali-pride-fades-with-a-new-generation/

Yes...butwhy would Hindians care for the Bengali pride or at least to the extent of waging a huge war against Pakistan. It was strategic out and out. People can claim and write all they want. The Bengali pride is same as cross-border Punjabi or Gujju or Sindhi pride. But, she did not cross the border when the the Sindhi led National Democratic movement was crushed by the Punjabis in Pakistan - bcz, there was no strategic or military advantage in going into W. Pakistan.

Same in the case of TN. Only, Indira was a lot less arrogant when it came to openly imposing hindism.

by Rishi Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:50 pm

Uppili,

Read the article I posted about what Muslims in Kolkata are agitating about.

by Seva Lamberdar Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:58 pm

Here is more on the Saudi-Bangladeshi co-operation in the following.

"Saudi Arabia is one of Bangladesh’s longstanding development partners. Since formal recognition of Bangladesh by Saudi Arabia in 1975, bilateral relations between the two countries have grown steadily in depth and dimension. Beyond the ambit of political relations, cooperation between the two countries in economic fields has developed substantially. Saudi Arabia has been consistently extending financial and technical assistance to Bangladesh in various fields. Bangladesh has received economic assistance in various sectors including Rural Infrastructure Development, Health, Rural Electrification, Communication, Irrigation, Disaster/Post Disaster Relief and Rehabilitation in the form of grants and loans."

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130326158570

by Kris Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:14 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:07 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

Let's consider how India protesting against SL on the question of SL tamils would play out:

India publicly protests treatment of Tamils in SL. Perhaps takes it up in UN. Does all it can to highlight what it claims is ill treatment to Tamils in SL. The result is that SL starts considering India a hostile country and starts costing upto China and Pakistan. Further SL rejects any aid of funds from India meant to provide humanitarian aid to SL Tamils afflicted by the recent violence and turmoil in SL.

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:26 am

Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

Let's consider how India protesting against SL on the question of SL tamils would play out:

India publicly protests treatment of Tamils in SL. Perhaps takes it up in UN. Does all it can to highlight what it claims is ill treatment to Tamils in SL. The result is that SL starts considering India a hostile country and starts costing upto China and Pakistan. Further SL rejects any aid of funds from India meant to provide humanitarian aid to SL Tamils afflicted by the recent violence and turmoil in SL.

In above: cosying not costing.

by Kris Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:31 am

Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Two issues here.
Treatment of sri lankan tamils. Most of india, except for poorly informed indians and clueless indian govt. , support tamil cause.
Treatment of sri lankan nationals . Bashing monks and banning sl players from chennai were both poor tactics and cause revulsion among normal people.

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

Let's consider how India protesting against SL on the question of SL tamils would play out:

India publicly protests treatment of Tamils in SL. Perhaps takes it up in UN. Does all it can to highlight what it claims is ill treatment to Tamils in SL. The result is that SL starts considering India a hostile country and starts costing upto China and Pakistan. Further SL rejects any aid of funds from India meant to provide humanitarian aid to SL Tamils afflicted by the recent violence and turmoil in SL.

>>>> The Chinese competition to win the hearts and minds in SL is very real and they have made concrete steps in that direction with infrastructure building. However, India is not without options either. SL's tourism traffic and trade significantly emanate from India still, based on my readings. If this is the case, India does have wiggle room. India can well use a 'carrot and stick' approach tying these to tourism and trade. At the end of the day, India is its closest neigbor geographically and culturally and a democracy as opposed to China. The Chinese quid-pro-quo expectations,I am sure, are not lost on the SL Government. Just as Rajapakse is playing the Indians, he is also playing the Chinese. It is time for the Indians to play him.

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:23 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

All Indians sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but Indians--unlike many tamil leaders-- do not believe interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka is the correct way to help Lankan Tamils.

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

Let's consider how India protesting against SL on the question of SL tamils would play out:

India publicly protests treatment of Tamils in SL. Perhaps takes it up in UN. Does all it can to highlight what it claims is ill treatment to Tamils in SL. The result is that SL starts considering India a hostile country and starts costing upto China and Pakistan. Further SL rejects any aid of funds from India meant to provide humanitarian aid to SL Tamils afflicted by the recent violence and turmoil in SL.

>>>> The Chinese competition to win the hearts and minds in SL is very real and they have made concrete steps in that direction with infrastructure building. However, India is not without options either. SL's tourism traffic and trade significantly emanate from India still, based on my readings. If this is the case, India does have wiggle room. India can well use a 'carrot and stick' approach tying these to tourism and trade. At the end of the day, India is its closest neigbor geographically and culturally and a democracy as opposed to China. The Chinese quid-pro-quo expectations,I am sure, are not lost on the SL Government. Just as Rajapakse is playing the Indians, he is also playing the Chinese. It is time for the Indians to play him.

What about the other point I made? If India esacalates hostility with SL the latter could refuse to let India help SL Tamils. It could refuse to take funds from India for relief and rehabilitation of SL Tamils. The analogy is with Nitish Kumar refusing to take money for relief and rehabilitation of Kosi river flood victims from Gujarat because he is apparently hostile to Modi.

by Kris Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:18 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India. Demanding a referendum on Eelam would result in other countries demanding a referendum on Kashmir. It would be an act of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Let it be understood that India can never let go of Kashmir because doing so would have a direct impact on the unity and integrity of the country. I'm sorry but the recent irresponsible antics of many tamil leaders smacks of treason to me.

>>>>> Demanding a referendum on Eelam is serious interference in another country's affairs. It may also not bode well for India as many of the Eelam types are for a broader Eelam including TN. There may not be many takers on the indian side, but that is still inviting trouble. You are correct also in your equation of that to outside interference vis-a-vis a Kashmir referendum. However, India can definitely protest ill treatment of tamils in SL and voice its opinions in international forums on that. That would put SL on the spot and give it notice that it cannot act with impunity on these matters.

Let's consider how India protesting against SL on the question of SL tamils would play out:

India publicly protests treatment of Tamils in SL. Perhaps takes it up in UN. Does all it can to highlight what it claims is ill treatment to Tamils in SL. The result is that SL starts considering India a hostile country and starts costing upto China and Pakistan. Further SL rejects any aid of funds from India meant to provide humanitarian aid to SL Tamils afflicted by the recent violence and turmoil in SL.

>>>> The Chinese competition to win the hearts and minds in SL is very real and they have made concrete steps in that direction with infrastructure building. However, India is not without options either. SL's tourism traffic and trade significantly emanate from India still, based on my readings. If this is the case, India does have wiggle room. India can well use a 'carrot and stick' approach tying these to tourism and trade. At the end of the day, India is its closest neigbor geographically and culturally and a democracy as opposed to China. The Chinese quid-pro-quo expectations,I am sure, are not lost on the SL Government. Just as Rajapakse is playing the Indians, he is also playing the Chinese. It is time for the Indians to play him.

What about the other point I made? If India esacalates hostility with SL the latter could refuse to let India help SL Tamils. It could refuse to take funds from India for relief and rehabilitation of SL Tamils. The analogy is with Nitish Kumar refusing to take money for relief and rehabilitation of Kosi river flood victims from Gujarat because he is apparently hostile to Modi.

>>>It is not so much a case of escalating hostility as it is using a 'carrot and stick' approach to accomplish what India wants. Anyway, India can work in tandem with the west in a good cop/bad cop routine. India can play the "friend", however one that needs SL's help on the tamil issue to appease its own 'les enfants terrible' i.e. use the DMK/ADMK crowd. This is going to require nuanced calibration, a sine qua non if India wants to play in the superpower leagues.The issue should also be viewed as part of the broader calculus of establishing Indian dominance in the region, not just the SL Tamil issue, although that is the concern in the near term.

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:20 pm

Kris, thanks for sharing your views. I have one last question: there have been reports of Sinhalese Budhist monks who were visiting TN getting thrashed and also in the forthcoming IPL matches no Lankan player is to be allowed to play in TN. Please share your views on these two issues and if you think it appropriate please suggest what is to be done to prevent the thrashing of Sinhalese monks in TN and the mixing of politics and sports.

by Kris Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:57 pm

Rashmun wrote:Kris, thanks for sharing your views. I have one last question: there have been reports of Sinhalese Budhist monks who were visiting TN getting thrashed and also in the forthcoming IPL matches no Lankan player is to be allowed to play in TN. Please share your views on these two issues and if you think it appropriate please suggest what is to be done to prevent the thrashing of Sinhalese monks in TN and the mixing of politics and sports.

>>>

1) If the attacks on the monks were unprovoked, it is an act of out -and- out thuggery. The attackers should be punished to the fullest extent the law allows it.

2) The issue of not allowing the SL players is one I don't have a problem with. JJ may be playing to a political gallery or she may be acting out of a sense of a moral imperative or maybe a bit of both. I don't know. Either way, it forces India's hand on the issue. I happen to agree with this stance as a moral imperative, although it may not fit the realpolitik aspect India is confronted with. My point is that India can still handle this in a nuanced fashion and in fact even use JJ's "recalcitrance" as an excuse to elicit concessions out of SL. It will be "look, we are both in this together, but I have got this issue with this state and you need to help me out". If India doesn't have the ability to think along these lines of modus operandi, we need to disown Chanakya and get out of the superpower business:). These games are constantly played by superpowers.

by truthbetold Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:19 pm

Kris,
i think you meant to use regional power when you typed superpower. India is clearly behind usa, china, russia,japan, germany, britain and france. Australia and canada exercise power through proximity to usa. For the next position, india will be challenged by italy and brazil if not others. India is not even among the top ten powrrs of the world.
In terms of real capability, it can only project power in the narrow confines of its borders
That does make a difference to your sl spproach. If indian govt can pull this off it is a very sensible and more importantly practical way of dealing with the situation.

by Uppili Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:21 pm

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Kris, thanks for sharing your views. I have one last question: there have been reports of Sinhalese Budhist monks who were visiting TN getting thrashed and also in the forthcoming IPL matches no Lankan player is to be allowed to play in TN. Please share your views on these two issues and if you think it appropriate please suggest what is to be done to prevent the thrashing of Sinhalese monks in TN and the mixing of politics and sports.

>>>

1) If the attacks on the monks were unprovoked, it is an act of out -and- out thuggery. The attackers should be punished to the fullest extent the law allows it.

2) The issue of not allowing the SL players is one I don't have a problem with. JJ may be playing to a political gallery or she may be acting out of a sense of a moral imperative or maybe a bit of both. I don't know. Either way, it forces India's hand on the issue. I happen to agree with this stance as a moral imperative, although it may not fit the realpolitik aspect India is confronted with. My point is that India can still handle this in a nuanced fashion and in fact even use JJ's "recalcitrance" as an excuse to elicit concessions out of SL. It will be "look, we are both in this together, but I have got this issue with this state and you need to help me out". If India doesn't have the ability to think along these lines of modus operandi, we need to disown Chanakya and get out of the superpower business:). These games are constantly played by superpowers.

Thanks for sharing your honest views. I agree JJ is playing vote-bank politics. Even the noted journalist N. Ram agreed with my view.

Now can you please tell us if MK should send the great TNA into SL beat the crap out of SL? I always respected your balanced view.

by truthbetold Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:26 pm

truthbetold wrote:Kris,
i think you meant to use regional power when you typed superpower. India is clearly behind usa, china, russia,japan, germany, britain and france. Australia and canada exercise power through proximity to usa. For the next position, india will be challenged by italy and brazil if not others. India is not even among the top ten powrrs of the world.
In terms of real capability, it can only project power in the narrow confines of its borders
That does NOT make a difference to your sl spproach. If indian govt can pull this off it is a very sensible and more importantly practical way of dealing with the situation.

added NOT in last but one sentence to correctly state my opinion.

by Kris Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

truthbetold wrote:Kris,
i think you meant to use regional power when you typed superpower. India is clearly behind usa, china, russia,japan, germany, britain and france. Australia and canada exercise power through proximity to usa. For the next position, india will be challenged by italy and brazil if not others. India is not even among the top ten powrrs of the world.
In terms of real capability, it can only project power in the narrow confines of its borders
That does make a difference to your sl spproach. If indian govt can pull this off it is a very sensible and more importantly practical way of dealing with the situation.

>>>TBT,

I meant 'superpower' in a looser sense than is usually understood. The way this superpowerdom totem pole is evolving, you have the US and China fighting for the top dog position. The next rung will the ECM & India & Japan, all being subordinate to the US-"vassals" if you will. The hierarchy is going to be be based on economics. India , given its size and economic potential should not settle for a lesser role than this. There are certain things in India's favor here. India and US are natural allies, given a shared legal and political tradition. Neither one is thrilled with an unbound China or with an ascendant islamic block, the fomer for ecoomic and miilitary reasons, the latter for its capacity to simply be a thorn in the side and create disharmony overall.

by Kris Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:15 pm

Uppili wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Kris, thanks for sharing your views. I have one last question: there have been reports of Sinhalese Budhist monks who were visiting TN getting thrashed and also in the forthcoming IPL matches no Lankan player is to be allowed to play in TN. Please share your views on these two issues and if you think it appropriate please suggest what is to be done to prevent the thrashing of Sinhalese monks in TN and the mixing of politics and sports.

>>>

1) If the attacks on the monks were unprovoked, it is an act of out -and- out thuggery. The attackers should be punished to the fullest extent the law allows it.

2) The issue of not allowing the SL players is one I don't have a problem with. JJ may be playing to a political gallery or she may be acting out of a sense of a moral imperative or maybe a bit of both. I don't know. Either way, it forces India's hand on the issue. I happen to agree with this stance as a moral imperative, although it may not fit the realpolitik aspect India is confronted with. My point is that India can still handle this in a nuanced fashion and in fact even use JJ's "recalcitrance" as an excuse to elicit concessions out of SL. It will be "look, we are both in this together, but I have got this issue with this state and you need to help me out". If India doesn't have the ability to think along these lines of modus operandi, we need to disown Chanakya and get out of the superpower business:). These games are constantly played by superpowers.

Thanks for sharing your honest views. I agree JJ is playing vote-bank politics. Even the noted journalist N. Ram agreed with my view.

Now can you please tell us if MK should send the great TNA into SL beat the crap out of SL? I always respected your balanced view.

>>>Who is TNA? TamilAlliance or something? MK is an opportunist and will do only things that line his pocket. SL Tamils' best bet is to make this work with the sinhalese and forget all this tamil diaspora nonsense, you hear from certain quarters. I am hoping India sees the light on the mistreatment issue and is able to effect a devolution of powers to the tamils and maintains a healthy distance after that.

by Kayalvizhi Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:15 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Interfering with the sovereign status of Sri Lanka would result in other countries interfering in the sovereign status of India.

India already interfered in the internal matters of Lanka. First in the early 80s is trained and armed somne Tamil militants. Is it not interference?

Then it used the militants as leverage to force SL to sign a secret agreement that it would not allow US ships in Trico harbor. Is it not interference?

Then it sent troops to put down one militany group that would not obey itrs orders. Is it not interference?

More recently it trained, funded and armed SL military to destry LTTE? Is it not interference.

Once India helped destroy the only defense Tamils had, it has an obligation to get them theire rights including separatye country if SL refuses to treat Tamils as citizens.

by Kayalvizhi Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:22 pm

truthbetold wrote:India did drop the ball on sl tamilnissue by not pressing sl to treat tamils humanely

According to Wiki,leaks, just before the end of war, US asks India to join and go to SL to guarantee that power will be devolved. India says our position wh Rajapaksa and get an ould be stronger if we go and talk separately. Really? US did talk. We do not know what India did./

US tells India, there is too much civilian deaths, we should end the war. India tells US, Ralapaksa is determined to kill Prabakaran (as if it is justification for civilian massacre). US says we will help kill him but we should stop the war. India says, Rajapaksa is determined.

US tells India, we (US, EU, Canada, Japan, India) shoud have a conference with SL President Rajapaksa and git a public statement about devolution,. India says we should include China in the conference.Really? China is in no mood to join India and US. No conference. No public guarantee from Rajapaka.

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