Older brother grew more religious

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:32 pm

...and then he started bombing.

Is it then wrong to say religion motivated him to bomb? Wrong to say that religion was a bad influence?

Why is it then wrong to call all followers of that religion are potential terrorists?

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:05 pm

I'm afraid we will suffer from a lot more cases of home grown & American born Muslim terrorist acts in future if FBI & US govt fail to reverse growing misrepresentation of Muslims (living in the US).

by nevada Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:54 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:I'm afraid we will suffer from a lot more cases of home grown & American born Muslim terrorist acts in future if FBI & US govt fail to reverse growing misrepresentation of Muslims (living in the US).

what? The Japanese living in the US were treated like criminals during the 2nd world war. How many of them blew up or maimed people as an act of protest or revenge?

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:28 pm

nevada wrote:
what? The Japanese living in the US were treated like criminals during the 2nd world war. How many of them blew up or maimed people as an act of protest or revenge?

This is akin to bringing up obsolete 2nd amendment at the speak of gun laws. First of all there are about 5 million Muslims made America their home (not sure of Japanese population back then), and times have changed since 1940s; constant bombardment of 24x7 media (which wasn't the case back then) is not going to help them feel at home, they feel more and more alienated, I mean the kids born & raised in this country. Secondly, unlike Pearl Habor which was a Govt. run operation (in war times) 9/11 was not a war, as much as dumb Dubya believed it to be. Typecasting of Muslims has been going on for 20 years, more openly since 9/11 failure to deter this practice will pave an easier road for terrorist outfits to woo young frustrated children, especially in this information age.

by nevada Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:34 pm

"Typecasting of Muslims has been going on for 20 years, "

Do you remember the 1993 WTC bombing? That was 20 years ago. Was typecasting the driving force behind that attack?

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:42 pm

nevada wrote:"Typecasting of Muslims has been going on for 20 years, "

Do you remember the 1993 WTC bombing? That was 20 years ago. Was typecasting the driving force behind that attack?

I'm not talking about the attacks by the foreign born individuals, am worried about alienating the ones born and raised in this country.

by Ponniyin Selvan Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:53 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...and then he started bombing.

Is it then wrong to say religion motivated him to bomb? Wrong to say that religion was a bad influence?

Why is it then wrong to call all followers of that religion are potential terrorists?

I don't think America will go "secular" like India. Americans are smarter in the sense that they go to the roots of the problem to solve the problem.

Definitely, a lot of passages and chapters of Quran / Hadiths holy literature have to be modified or at least questioned in public and ridiculed for the Muslims to accept that their religion like all other religions has some dreadful literature that induces people to violence. Moreover, Muslims do not constitute a vote bank yet to tilt the scales in favor of one party or the other. For this battle to be successful, this battle should be led by rationalists and atheists of America rather than those on the Christian right.

by truthbetold Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Nevada,
good argument.

cd,
your concern is unwarranted. us acted responsibly towards its Muslim citizens. they were not in any significant way disadvantaged in their normal lifestyle.
is there any right wing or media bias? yes. some of it may be hurtful. all illegal acts and threats were legally handled by us govt. because of the extreme nature of the crime some amount of criticism is natural and to be expected. you cannot retrain people to be politically correct.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:37 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:they feel more and more alienated, I mean the kids born & raised in this country. age.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the misnorities?

by Idéfix Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:20 pm

I agree with PS. It is also important that any such argument targets the hateful doctrine within the religion, not the majority of its adherents who live their lives like most adherents of other religions.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:00 am

truthbetold wrote:Nevada,
good argument.

cd,
your concern is unwarranted. us acted responsibly towards its Muslim citizens. they were not in any significant way disadvantaged in their normal lifestyle.
is there any right wing or media bias? yes. some of it may be hurtful. all illegal acts and threats were legally handled by us govt. because of the extreme nature of the crime some amount of criticism is natural and to be expected. you cannot retrain people to be politically correct.

TBT, you should remember this, Somalian-Amercians based in Minneapolis, their motives & influences may have been for a different cause but if FBI keeps spying mosques & media continues to overplay muslim card there is a good chance of turning those young kids against the country.

by truthbetold Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:23 am

Cd,
once again you are pointing in the wrong direction. Somalians were left alone in mn but were radicalized by news flow and their own mosque interactions.
You are pushing blame modi logic of indian muslim jihadi apologizists.
Us racial tensions, immigrant divisions, and christian extremists, cannot wished be away or controlled as long as they are within legal limits.
A section of media will poke them for their own benefit. Fbi keeps an eye on individuals and mosques as is tasked. Put together that is the best package that one can expect for a refugee.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:34 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd,
once again you are pointing in the wrong direction. Somalians were left alone in mn but were radicalized by news flow and their own mosque interactions.
You are pushing blame modi logic of indian muslim jihadi apologizists.
Us racial tensions, immigrant divisions, and christian extremists, cannot wished be away or controlled as long as they are within legal limits.
A section of media will poke them for their own benefit. Fbi keeps an eye on individuals and mosques as is tasked. Put together that is the best package that one can expect for a refugee.

I've one word for you Gitmo.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:36 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:

I've one word for you Gitmo.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:18 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

I've one word for you Gitmo.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

Why do Americans see American lives as more valuable than the lives of other citizens of the world! When are they going to learn not to rile up world citizens with their f*ed up foreign policies.

by Hellsangel Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:19 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

I've one word for you Gitmo.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

Why do Americans see American lives as more valuable than the lives of other citizens of the world! When are they going to learn not to rile up world citizens with their f*ed up foreign policies.

What is wrong with that?

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:30 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

I've one word for you Gitmo.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

Why do Americans see American lives as more valuable than the lives of other citizens of the world! When are they going to learn not to rile up world citizens with their f*ed up foreign policies.

What is wrong with that?

Everything one can think of, if they did we probably would not have watched 10s of thousands (of not 100s of ) of lives lost all over the world.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:41 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

I've one word for you Gitmo.

Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

Why do Americans see American lives as more valuable than the lives of other citizens of the world! When are they going to learn not to rile up world citizens with their f*ed up foreign policies.

You are barking yup the wrong tree.

The other countries should begin to value the lives of their citizens at least 10 cents on he dollar the US places on its citizens.

What next ? YOu expect Americans to emulate Indians in Bus rapings and drag court cases on for years

Anyway...you have not answered my questions.

**********
Tell me this...Is there a SINGLE country where the minority muslims have not felt isolated ?

Is there a single country where the majority muslims have not alienated the minorities?

**********

Any and all Fakular, muslim apologists are welcome to answer.

by truthbetold Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:42 pm

Cd,
i recognize your point of view. You do not want us to first create a resenting world population by foreign policy and then demean their immigrants inside us. That will create a fertile ground for would be trouble makers. I may not agree with you but lot of rational people express that opinion.

My understanding is the following:
Us has economic and political interests around the world. It will pursue them aggressively. It will have enemies. Us does one of the best jobs in the world in protecting and treating immigrants. But it is not perfect. Us cannot also restrain various shades of its internal opinion from being freely expressed. Some of those actions have consequences. Us is trying to deal with them as practically as possible.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:44 pm

Cd is upset that hyderabad Muslims are already unfairly suspected of helping bombers recently. He would like to hush these things up in grand tradition of his favorite party and see if we can't do the same in us...he feels those policies worked very well in India and moreover would like to keep the fair fax kebab makers happy

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:52 pm

i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

by Hellsangel Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

Liberal heart-breaking confusion. What is new?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:54 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

Liberal heart-breaking confusion. What is new?

then explain it to me since you seem to understand it better. there has been no history of chechnyan terror against americans as far as i can tell.

by Guest Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

Maybe some answers can be found here:

"In a blog entry, Kilzer's daughter, Alyssa, suggested that the mother became increasingly religious as their acquaintance progressed. For instance, she began wearing a hijab, the traditional Muslim headscarf.
"She started to refuse to see boys that had gone through puberty, as she had consulted a religious figure and he had told her it was sacrilegious," Alyssa Kilzer wrote. "She was often fasting. She told me that she had cried for days when her oldest son, Tamerlan, told her that he wanted to move out, going against her culture's tradition of the son staying in the house with the mother until marriage."
She said the mother also expressed some rather strident views about the U.S. government. But it was difficult to know who was influencing whom in the household.
"During this facial session she started quoting a conspiracy theory, telling me that she thought 9-11 was purposefully created by the American government to make America hate Muslims," Alyssa Kilzer wrote. "'It's real,' she said. 'My son knows all about it. You can read on the internet.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/bombing-suspects-may-led-whom-001538013--spt.html

by Hellsangel Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:58 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

Liberal heart-breaking confusion. What is new?

then explain it to me since you seem to understand it better. there has been no history of chechnyan terror against americans as far as i can tell.

Chechen's fight against Russia is one front of the battle of the Islamic radicals against the west. Did you bother to read that link about the ties between Muslim terrorists and the Chechens in a different thread, Il Professore?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:00 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i'm still having a problem trying to fathom motives. the chechnyan fighters' beef is all against russia as far as i can make out. so how does bombing an american city and hurting americans help their cause. this is why it still appears to be the work of two very confused young men to me.

Liberal heart-breaking confusion. What is new?

then explain it to me since you seem to understand it better. there has been no history of chechnyan terror against americans as far as i can tell.

Chechen's fight against Russia is one front of the battle of the Islamic radicals against the west. Did you bother to read that link about the ties between Muslim terrorists and the Chechens in a different thread, Il Professore?

no. which thread is that? i am suspicious of indian interpretations of the chechen situation because indians bring their own historical baggage with islam into any such analysis. this just seems like a nice convenient opportunity to pile on.

by Hellsangel Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:52 pm

You are suspicious of anything that does not come from a liberal source. It is a fox news article.

by southindian Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:11 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...and then he started bombing.

Is it then wrong to say religion motivated him to bomb? Wrong to say that religion was a bad influence?

Why is it then wrong to call all followers of that religion are potential terrorists?

There's something fundamentally wrong with the M team book they follow.

Many from other religions have pointed this out openly, but the 1 billion+ members of the team largely remain quiet. Why?

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:59 am

southindian wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...and then he started bombing.

Is it then wrong to say religion motivated him to bomb? Wrong to say that religion was a bad influence?

Why is it then wrong to call all followers of that religion are potential terrorists?

There's something fundamentally wrong with the M team book they follow.

Many from other religions have pointed this out openly, but the 1 billion+ members of the team largely remain quiet. Why?

bcz they don't have SuCh accounts.

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:09 am

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

I don't think America will go "secular" like India. Americans are smarter in the sense that they go to the roots of the problem to solve the problem.

ahem.. you seem to have conveniently forgotten that America/West is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of this mess. And here is what Eisnehower said longtime ago which is pretty much on the cards

"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security"

by Hellsangel Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:21 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

I don't think America will go "secular" like India. Americans are smarter in the sense that they go to the roots of the problem to solve the problem.

ahem.. you seem to have conveniently forgotten that America/West is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of this mess. And here is what Eisnehower said longtime ago which is pretty much on the cards

"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security"

Sure! Blame America. It is the in thing to do now.

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:23 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:Cd is upset that hyderabad Muslims are already unfairly suspected of helping bombers recently. He would like to hush these things up in grand tradition of his favorite party and see if we can't do the same in us...he feels those policies worked very well in India and moreover would like to keep the fair fax kebab makers happy

nah man, I don't want to piss off halal meat guy, mind you he is from Waziristan.

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:33 am

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

I don't think America will go "secular" like India. Americans are smarter in the sense that they go to the roots of the problem to solve the problem.

ahem.. you seem to have conveniently forgotten that America/West is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of this mess. And here is what Eisnehower said longtime ago which is pretty much on the cards

"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security"

Sure! Blame America. It is the in thing to do now.

Whaddya mean, we're discussing and planning for future here.

by Hellsangel Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:05 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

I don't think America will go "secular" like India. Americans are smarter in the sense that they go to the roots of the problem to solve the problem.

ahem.. you seem to have conveniently forgotten that America/West is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of this mess. And here is what Eisnehower said longtime ago which is pretty much on the cards

"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security"

Sure! Blame America. It is the in thing to do now.

Whaddya mean, we're discussing and planning for future here.

Oh! Like a commie with a 5-year plan?

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