si vs ni dahi bada

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 11:34 am

learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 12:20 pm

there is no dahi bada in tamil nadu, only thayir vadai and it is not cloyingly sweet but peppery and salty.

by seven Sun May 19, 2013 12:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there is no dahi bada in tamil nadu, only thayir vadai and it is not cloyingly sweet but peppery and salty.

you like shrikhand. nuf said.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Sun May 19, 2013 12:26 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.

did the northindian "dahi bhallas" wear lehngas?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 12:28 pm

seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there is no dahi bada in tamil nadu, only thayir vadai and it is not cloyingly sweet but peppery and salty.

you like shrikhand. nuf said.

perhaps you are familiar with only the store bought shrikhand which is horribly sweet. have it made for you by a proper maharashtrian or follow an authentic recipe and it is one of the most delightful things.

and to begin with shrikhand is a dessert, thayir vadai is not.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 1:16 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.

what did you learn?

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 1:27 pm

Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 1:48 pm

kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

They are similar to the Kannada Mosaru Vade, the original one, in all probability.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 19, 2013 1:57 pm

kinnera wrote:
kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

They are similar to the Kannada Mosaru Vade, the original one, in all probability.

Yeah...rite...Idli came from Kannad, Dosai came from Gults, and Sambar/rasam all came from Baluch.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 2:05 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
kinnera wrote:
kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

They are similar to the Kannada Mosaru Vade, the original one, in all probability.

Yeah...rite...Idli came from Kannad, Dosai came from Gults, and Sambar/rasam all came from Baluch.

They are came from Udupi (Sambar from Maharastra, i believe). Got to accept that. Dosa/dose is from Udupi, of course. Pesarattu probably is from AP.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 19, 2013 2:31 pm

kinnera wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
kinnera wrote:
kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

They are similar to the Kannada Mosaru Vade, the original one, in all probability.

Yeah...rite...Idli came from Kannad, Dosai came from Gults, and Sambar/rasam all came from Baluch.

They are came from Udupi (Sambar from Maharastra, i believe). Got to accept that. Dosa/dose is from Udupi, of course. Pesarattu probably is from AP.

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by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 2:40 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
kinnera wrote:
kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

They are similar to the Kannada Mosaru Vade, the original one, in all probability.

Yeah...rite...Idli came from Kannad, Dosai came from Gults, and Sambar/rasam all came from Baluch.

They are came from Udupi (Sambar from Maharastra, i believe). Got to accept that. Dosa/dose is from Udupi, of course. Pesarattu probably is from AP.

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Thanks for not claiming and arguing that 'dosai', 'vadai', 'sambar' and all came from tamil people and the explanation for tamil and sanskrit having common words is because Sankrit borrowed words from Tamil. I appreciate your agenda-free mentality, upps. Smile

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 4:40 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
what did you learn?

will tell you once i am done spending more time with my family.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 4:46 pm

kinnera wrote:
Thanks for not claiming and arguing that 'dosai', 'vadai', 'sambar' and all came from tamil people and the explanation for tamil and sanskrit having common words is because Sankrit borrowed words from Tamil. I appreciate your agenda-free mentality, upps.

question to agenda free people -- where did the words in later sanskrit, not present in the rig veda come from?

and an article of interest:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/608752

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 4:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:
Thanks for not claiming and arguing that 'dosai', 'vadai', 'sambar' and all came from tamil people and the explanation for tamil and sanskrit having common words is because Sankrit borrowed words from Tamil. I appreciate your agenda-free mentality, upps.

question to agenda free people -- where did the words in later sanskrit, not present in the rig veda come from?

and an article of interest:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/608752

This can be explained on the basis of now lost rescensions of the Rig Veda and the other samhitas.

http://all-about-sanskrit.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-state-of-vedic-rescensions.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 5:00 pm

that article sheds no light on my question.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:that article sheds no light on my question.

It does. Many rescensions of the Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda, and Atharva Veda are now lost to posterity. That is what the article says. Incidentally the same applies to Brahmanas, Aranyakas, and Upanisads.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:05 pm

What I am trying to say is that it is possible certain words were used in the now lost rescensions which are not present in the existing rescensions.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 5:08 pm

Rashmun wrote:What I am trying to say is that it is possible certain words were used in the now lost rescensions which are not present in the existing rescensions.

what does the word rescension mean?

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:What I am trying to say is that it is possible certain words were used in the now lost rescensions which are not present in the existing rescensions.

what does the word rescension mean?

Variations. For instance Black Yajurveda (Krishna Yajur Veda) and White Yajur Veda (Shukla Yajur Veda).

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:What I am trying to say is that it is possible certain words were used in the now lost rescensions which are not present in the existing rescensions.

what does the word rescension mean?

Variations. For instance Black Yajurveda (Krishna Yajur Veda) and White Yajur Veda (Shukla Yajur Veda).

are you saying there are different versions of the rig vedic text and that the entire dictionary of sanskrit as we know it today can be recovered from the superset of all the versions of the rig veda? please state your position more clearly instead of resorting to some opaque technical jargon.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:27 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:What I am trying to say is that it is possible certain words were used in the now lost rescensions which are not present in the existing rescensions.

what does the word rescension mean?

Variations. For instance Black Yajurveda (Krishna Yajur Veda) and White Yajur Veda (Shukla Yajur Veda).

are you saying there are different versions of the rig vedic text and that the entire dictionary of sanskrit as we know it today can be recovered from the superset of all the versions of the rig veda? please state your position more clearly instead of resorting to some opaque technical jargon.

The answer is yes to your first question although one particular rescension has been accepted by consensus by our traditional ancient and medieval scholars as the most authoritative rescension and hence they have only commented on this rescension.

To your second question the answer is no. By the way your question should have used the words "superset of all versions of the Rig Veda, existing and extinct". Also the Rig Veda is a highly layered text. What this means is that it was composed over a very long period of time. Portions of the Atharva Veda are believed to antedate portions of the Rig Veda.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 5:32 pm

what is apparent to even the casual reader is that all kinds of labored and highly contrived scenarios to explain the sanskrit vocabulary as it is known today is appealing to some people, other than the most straightforward one by which languages expand their vocabulary, i.e. contact with other languages. i am glad we arrived at this point and i finally understand your point of view.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 19, 2013 5:32 pm

Rashmun wrote:
To your second question the answer is no. By the way your question should have used the words "superset of all versions of the Rig Veda, existing and extinct". Also the Rig Veda is a highly layered text. What this means is that it was composed over a very long period of time. Portions of the Atharva Veda are believed to antedate portions of the Rig Veda.

I have a strong feeling that you are mixing Veda with Vada...FYI Vada(i) is something people eat.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:36 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:what is apparent to even the casual reader is that all kinds of labored and highly contrived scenarios to explain the sanskrit vocabulary as it is known today is appealing to some people, other than the most straightforward one by which languages expand their vocabulary, i.e. contact with other languages. i am glad we arrived at this point and i finally understand your point of view.

I have already said to you earlier in a different discussion that it is a fact that even the Rig Veda contains some words of Dravidian origin. I am just asking you to take into account the lost rescensions of the Rig Veda, Atharva Veda, etc. I am also correcting your wrong impression that all the content of the Rig Veda precedes all other Vedic literature.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:41 pm

Another thing to consider is that it is not just Dravidian languages which have loaned words to Sanskrit but also other languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 19, 2013 5:47 pm

Rashmun wrote:Another thing to consider is that it is not just Dravidian languages which have loaned words to Sanskrit but also other languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit

You mean sanskrit and other languages STOLE words from Dravidian Language? There was no permission seeking and approval involved here. Outright stealing.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Another thing to consider is that it is not just Dravidian languages which have loaned words to Sanskrit but also other languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit

You mean sanskrit and other languages STOLE words from Dravidian Language? There was no permission seeking and approval involved here. Outright stealing.

No permission seeking and approval whatsoever.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 19, 2013 5:58 pm

so here is the bottomline as i see it:

the line trotted out that there are no more than 30 or 40 loan words from dravidian languages to sanskrit is a conjecture, no more. it is no more or no less valid than the conjecture that there are many more words loaned from dravidian to sanskrit. read the article by t.burrow, to which i posted a link, published in the 40s which claims at least 750 words can be shown to have a dravidian origin. and that article is more than 70 years old! i am sure the research on this has progressed much further in the intervening 70 years. the point is, the claim of 30 or 40 loan words is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of sanskrit-alpha fanatics.

and this is why the research methodology i suggested in a different thread can be critically useful.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 6:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so here is the bottomline as i see it:

the line trotted out that there are no more than 30 or 40 loan words from dravidian languages to sanskrit is a conjecture, no more. it is no more or no less valid than the conjecture that there are many more words loaned from dravidian to sanskrit. read the article by t.burrow, to which i posted a link, published in the 40s which claims at least 750 words can be shown to have a dravidian origin. and that article is more than 70 years old! i am sure the research on this has progressed much further in the intervening 70 years. the point is, the claim of 30 or 40 loan words is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of sanskrit-alpha fanatics.

and this is why the research methodology i suggested in a different thread can be critically useful.

Wish you would have clicked on the link I gave before writing what you did. Here it is again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit

by Rekz Sun May 19, 2013 10:47 pm

Love thayir vada...nothing comes close to si T.vada.period

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 11:22 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
did the northindian "dahi bhallas" wear lehngas?

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 1:21 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
what did you learn?

will tell you once i am done spending more time with my family.

by indophile Mon May 20, 2013 8:06 am

kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.

It's Perugu Gaare. Vada is pure Telugu (accha tenugu) means hot Sun combined with dryness in the air (as in vada-debba kottindi).

by indophile Mon May 20, 2013 8:14 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
what did you learn?

Possibly that the northern version has no hole in the middle whereas the southern version does (for better absorption of the yogurt). That the northern version is a little harder, so it retains its shape better. That some masala is sprinkled on the northern version whereas nothing is speinkled on the southern version. One thing that is common - they are both difficult to digest if you eat more than 2 of normal size.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 8:32 am

indophile wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
what did you learn?
Possibly that the northern version has no hole in the middle whereas the southern version does (for better absorption of the yogurt). That the northern version is a little harder, so it retains its shape better. That some masala is sprinkled on the northern version whereas nothing is speinkled on the southern version. One thing that is common - they are both difficult to digest if you eat more than 2 of normal size.

ha ha ha! quite true. i also learned yesterday that the vada is an indian doughnut. scratch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughnut#Asia

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 8:51 am

indophile wrote:
kinnera wrote:Perugu Vada, the telugu version. I think the tamil 'thayir vadai' is similar to it. It's salty, not sweet.
It's Perugu Gaare. Vada is pure Telugu (accha tenugu) means hot Sun combined with dryness in the air (as in vada-debba kottindi).

Maa raayalaseema lo 'gaare' ante evvariki ardham kaadandi. Akkada andaru 'vada' ane antaaru.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 am

indophile wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
learned a LOT about the two in a party. Very interesting.
what did you learn?
Possibly that the northern version has no hole in the middle whereas the southern version does (for better absorption of the yogurt). That the northern version is a little harder, so it retains its shape better. That some masala is sprinkled on the northern version whereas nothing is speinkled on the southern version. One thing that is common - they are both difficult to digest if you eat more than 2 of normal size.

one diff i remember is that the ni version is boiled and then soaked in water, while si version is not. another learning thing was, si dahi vada is NOT medhu (mendu?) vada in yogurt.

btw, the true test of ni dahi bada is in its softness. if hard, then someone screwed up. dahi bhalla, otoh are harder.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:13 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:one diff i remember is that the ni version is boiled and then soaked in water, while si version is not.

correct. not boiled but soaked in warm water. dahi vadas should be uber soft melt-in-the-mouth. ditto for dahi bhalles and kanji vadas. if it is hard, don't eat it.

Rekz wrote:Love thayir vada...nothing comes close to si T.vada.period

ganpath has promised to make this for lunch tomorrow. will post pics.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:24 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:one diff i remember is that the ni version is boiled and then soaked in water, while si version is not.
correct. not boiled but soaked in warm water. dahi vadas should be uber soft melt-in-the-mouth. ditto for dahi bhalles and kanji vadas. if it is hard, don't eat it.

Rekz wrote:Love thayir vada...nothing comes close to si T.vada.period
ganpath has promised to make this for lunch tomorrow. will post pics.

Sorry. Meant to say fried and then soaked in water.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:26 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:one diff i remember is that the ni version is boiled and then soaked in water, while si version is not.
correct. not boiled but soaked in warm water. dahi vadas should be uber soft melt-in-the-mouth. ditto for dahi bhalles and kanji vadas. if it is hard, don't eat it.

Rekz wrote:Love thayir vada...nothing comes close to si T.vada.period
ganpath has promised to make this for lunch tomorrow. will post pics.

Sorry. Meant to say fried and then soaked in water.

vidya ji, this practice is adopted in making thayir vadas too. Shocked

http://www.sharmispassions.com/2013/04/thayir-vadai-recipe-south-indian-curd-vadai.html

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:33 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:one diff i remember is that the ni version is boiled and then soaked in water, while si version is not.
correct. not boiled but soaked in warm water. dahi vadas should be uber soft melt-in-the-mouth. ditto for dahi bhalles and kanji vadas. if it is hard, don't eat it.

Rekz wrote:Love thayir vada...nothing comes close to si T.vada.period
ganpath has promised to make this for lunch tomorrow. will post pics.

Sorry. Meant to say fried and then soaked in water.
vidya ji, this practice is adopted in making thayir vadas too. http://www.sharmispassions.com/2013/04/thayir-vadai-recipe-south-indian-curd-vadai.html

Well. Two women, one punju and one Tamil agreed that si dahi bada is not soaked in water Shocked

I definitely didn't have that much sangria that I would forget this much. Sad

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:39 am

aiyo, now i am not sure if ganpath should soak them in hot water tomorrow. guess i will go with his instincts (which is to soak).

by southindian Mon May 20, 2013 9:44 am

bada vs vadai, who cares.

Soon this Indian food is going to be renamed Indian donut.

You like the NorthIndian donut or SouthIndian donut? Spicy or Mild?

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 10:08 am

i am going to open a restaurant chain -- just vadas.

menu:

NI vada
SI vada
kanji vada
medhu vada
vada with salsa sauce
vada with a thousand island hooker
vada peri peri
vada kentucky
vada egg muffins

by Propagandhi711 Mon May 20, 2013 10:14 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:i am going to open a restaurant chain -- just vadas.

menu:

NI vada
SI vada
kanji vada
medhu vada
vada with salsa sauce
vada with a thousand island hooker
vada peri peri
vada kentucky
vada egg muffins

would that vada be identified by a large hole in the middle which is discolored at the edges and is slightly foul smelling?

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 10:19 am

Vadas from the deep fryer are put in water first. Then they are taken out immediately, squeezed gently and in yogurt. The reason for putting the vadas in water is to cool them. Hot vadas staight from the frying oil to yogurt could break (?) the yogurt. Soaking in water first also allows the vadas to get soft and fluffier.

And yes, the vadas are made with urad dal.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon May 20, 2013 10:27 am

aside from southern indians, the guys who know what to do in the vadai/vadE space are maharashtrians. i also like their sabudana (javvarisi) vadai. in general i find maharashtrian cuisine very agreeable. minimalistic, well thought out in terms of proportions of ingredients and nutrition, and mild yet flavorful.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 10:34 am

I like the maharastrian sabudana vadAhttps://www.google.com/search?q=sabudana+vada&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&norc=1

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon May 20, 2013 12:00 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...maharashtrian cuisine ...very agreeable. minimalistic, well thought out in terms of proportions of ingredients and nutrition, and mild yet flavorful.

absolutely! apt description.

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