Electricty for Pakistan. Why not for SI?

by Rishi Mon May 27, 2013 8:27 pm

The option of importing electricity from India is an additional
sweetener at a time when reducing load-shedding must be one of the next
government’s top priorities. Moreover, Sharif has an incomplete legacy
in the form of the Lahore Declaration that needs tending during his
third term.

http://dawn.com/2013/05/27/improvement-in-ties/

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 27, 2013 8:35 pm

All to show their secular credentials. The Paki and bangla govt has a 150 million strong lobby in India. UPA needs their votes desperately.

In fact, Pakis can get whatever they want from India for the next 12 months.

by Kayalvizhi Mon May 27, 2013 9:22 pm

b'cos hindian elite hate Tamils. I said that few days ago in another post in another context.

TN lost new plants bcos of power cuts. People are suffering. Instead of sending excess NI power to TN they are going to giv to Pak.

They are planning to build India-SL grid connecting Colombo to Trivandrum

Many human rights groups oppose commonwealth meething in SL. Canada would not go. Queen Elizanbeth would not attend - first time in a long while. India was behind scheduling the conference in SL. Althoigh it was not in the planning committee it campaigned for SL among asian and african countries to schedule the meeting in SL.

by Guest Mon May 27, 2013 9:30 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:b'cos hindian elite hate Tamils. I said that few days ago in another post in another context.

TN lost new plants bcos of power cuts. People are suffering. Instead of sending excess NI power to TN they are going to giv to Pak.

They are planning to build India-SL grid connecting Colombo to Trivandrum

Many human rights groups oppose commonwealth meething in SL. Canada would not go. Queen Elizanbeth would not attend - first time in a long while. India was behind scheduling the conference in SL. Althoigh it was not in the planning committee it campaigned for SL among asian and african countries to schedule the meeting in SL.

Electricity shortage is in general more acute in NI than it is in SI.

by Guest Mon May 27, 2013 9:38 pm

If it's really happening, then shame on India and its politicians.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 27, 2013 10:48 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:b'cos hindian elite hate Tamils. I said that few days ago in another post in another context.

TN lost new plants bcos of power cuts. People are suffering. Instead of sending excess NI power to TN they are going to giv to Pak.

They are planning to build India-SL grid connecting Colombo to Trivandrum

Many human rights groups oppose commonwealth meething in SL. Canada would not go. Queen Elizanbeth would not attend - first time in a long while. India was behind scheduling the conference in SL. Althoigh it was not in the planning committee it campaigned for SL among asian and african countries to schedule the meeting in SL.

Electricity shortage is in general more acute in NI North Bharat than it is in SI southBharat.

by indophile Tue May 28, 2013 8:11 am

Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 28, 2013 8:31 am

indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

joule heating is a bitch that overcomes any political considerations eh?

by southindian Tue May 28, 2013 8:56 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:All to show their secular credentials. The Paki and bangla govt has a 150 million strong lobby in India. UPA needs their votes desperately.

In fact, Pakis can get whatever they want from India for the next 12 months.

LOL! Yup. The Mexicans did the same in US and forced GOP to discussion table for Immigration reform.

Votes, can make politicians do anything.

by Maria S Tue May 28, 2013 9:04 am

I am not surprised.

There is an one line explanation for almost everything!

"Follow the money"..it's the root of everything..it may be masked as anything..even "principle"..but, it's all secondary..war/struggle for land..power, religion, division, sex, politics, sports, media coverage..personal conflicts..sooner or later..all paths lead to a few making a lot of money- at the expense of many.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue May 28, 2013 11:05 am

indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

We are not talking about transmission issues or Joule heating business. We are talking about THIS.

And Summer is just getting hot.

by indophile Tue May 28, 2013 12:03 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

We are not talking about transmission issues or Joule heating business. We are talking about THIS.

And Summer is just getting hot.

I was responding to KV who seemed to imply that even Pak is favored over TN by the Indian national govt. If the grievance is about more installed generating capacity TN is not doing that bad compared to other states. See,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_India_by_installed_power_capacity

by Kayalvizhi Tue May 28, 2013 12:57 pm

indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

In fact Indian gov tried this excuse as to why surplus power from north is sent to south. Technical experts rebutted it. The national grid can bring the electricity with acceptable losses.

India is simply punishing TN for not accepting Hindi (one grievance of Hindians). Thinnk. But for the sacrifices made by anti-Hindi martyrs of 1965, Hindi would be the SOLE official language of India anmd you cannot do anything without knowing Hindi. Hindians have not forgotten it.

by indophile Tue May 28, 2013 1:08 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:
indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

In fact Indian gov tried this excuse as to why surplus power from north is sent to south. Technical experts rebutted it. The national grid can bring the electricity with acceptable losses.

India is simply punishing TN for not accepting Hindi (one grievance of Hindians). Thinnk. But for the sacrifices made by anti-Hindi martyrs of 1965, Hindi would be the SOLE official language of India anmd you cannot do anything without knowing Hindi. Hindians have not forgotten it.

I wonder which engineering school(s) those technical experts graduated from. I hope not from IITs.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue May 28, 2013 1:20 pm

indophile wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
indophile wrote:Electricity cannot be transmitted over long distances, especially in a country like India where losses are extremely high.

We are not talking about transmission issues or Joule heating business. We are talking about THIS.

And Summer is just getting hot.
I was responding to KV who seemed to imply that even Pak is favored over TN by the Indian national govt. If the grievance is about more installed generating capacity TN is not doing that bad compared to other states. See,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_India_by_installed_power_capacity

No amount of Data will convince KV. KV has ROCK-LIKE views.

KV believes, TN will be a S U P O W E R P O W E R - if it gets its independence. If it did not, then it is all hindian fault for delaying the independence and looting TN resources for 60 years. If it became a begging bowl, then it is all...you know the routine.

I am beginning to believe that Power sector has to be privatized. If gas service, bus service, education can be then why not the power sector? Power, Railways, water are being used as political pawns.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 28, 2013 1:23 pm

indophile wrote: I hope not from IITs.

i found your initial post interesting and wanted to explore it further, but this unnecessary dig is offputting.

can we go back to the original discussion. are the t&d losses in india normalized to some measure (say per unit length) somehow greater than you might find in the US?

p.s: there is evidence right here on this board that attending an IIT at the very least does not eliminate what i can only call, "the-rabbit-i-caught-has-only-three-legs" syndrome even on technical matters!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue May 28, 2013 1:39 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
indophile wrote: I hope not from IITs.

i found your initial post interesting and wanted to explore it further, but this unnecessary dig is offputting.

can we go back to the original discussion. are the t&d losses in india normalized to some measure (say per unit length) somehow greater than you might find in the US?

p.s: there is evidence right here on this board that attending an IIT at the very least does not eliminate what i can only call, "the-rabbit-i-caught-has-only-three-legs" syndrome even on technical matters!

..Some data on power transmission losses worldwide...

I recall reading somewhere that India looses some 25 to 30% due to heating losses and another 20% due to stealing.

by Idéfix Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:can we go back to the original discussion. are the t&d losses in india normalized to some measure (say per unit length) somehow greater than you might find in the US?

T&D losses are indeed greater in India. This World Bank report shows India's losses at 22%, while much larger countries with long-distance grids have lower losses: Russia 10%, Canada 11%, US 6%. My suspicion is that much of the losses in India are not "technical" losses, but are actually due to theft.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.LOSS.ZS?order=wbapi_data_value_2010+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue May 28, 2013 1:53 pm

Idéfix wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:can we go back to the original discussion. are the t&d losses in india normalized to some measure (say per unit length) somehow greater than you might find in the US?
T&D losses are indeed greater in India. This World Bank report shows India's losses at 22%, while much larger countries with long-distance grids have lower losses: Russia 10%, Canada 11%, US 6%. My suspicion is that much of the losses in India are not "technical" losses, but are actually due to theft.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.LOSS.ZS?order=wbapi_data_value_2010+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

Something not right...bcz India's losses are CONSTANT at 22% for 3 years - really ?

I looked at China at 6% in line with developed countries. With building new plants so costly and political, the Govt can invest in transmission upgrade and simply gain additional 15% power. There will be almost no political and environmental issues, and it will take a much shorter period.

Botswana and Congo numbers are interesting.

by Idéfix Tue May 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Something not right...bcz India's losses are CONSTANT at 22% for 3 years - really ?

That likely means they collected data once in recent years, and have the same number showing for all years.

by indophile Tue May 28, 2013 2:32 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:[
I am beginning to believe that Power sector has to be privatized. If gas service, bus service, education can be then why not the power sector? Power, Railways, water are being used as political pawns.

Privatizing and competition works when there is abundance. India has dearth, not abundance. For example, reserve margins (capacity above the peak load) across the U.S are around 20% whereas in India installed capacity is about 20% or more less than the peak load. Installing generating capacity is a highly capital intensive undertaking, and India, because of corruption, shortsightedness, infighting, and many more ills, missed the bus when the dollar was in doldrums. They could have imported machinery and equipment like crazy during that big dip in dollar that lasted for a considerably long time. By the way, they did try privatizing generation -- remember Dhabor, Cogentrix, etc. You can't promise 16% retirn and then show an empty hand. The investors will invest their good money elsewhere, like China.

by Kayalvizhi Tue May 28, 2013 3:12 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:No amount of Data will convince KV. Power, Railways, water are being used as political pawns.

-------------------------------------------------
Rediff.com » News » Is Zardari's India visit badly-timed?
Is Zardari's India visit badly-timed?
April 06, 2012 22:19 IST
The Indian prime minister's lunch invitation to the visiting President is in conformity with the norms of courtesy and protocol. The luncheon meeting comes at a time when India has offered 5,000 MW of electricity to Pakistan, which is facing an unprecedented power shortage, and it has the potential of jumpstarting bilateral trade.

Power shortage had touched 50 per cent of the electricity demand in Pakistan, triggering widespread riots across Punjab, and Indian power could cool things down and generate tremendous good will.

------------------------------------------------------
Tamil Nadu to approach Supreme Court over power
Saturday Oct 27, 2012
The Tamil Nadu government Saturday decided to approach the Supreme Court with a petition to direct the central government to facilitate transmission of power contracted by Tamil Nadu Generation and Distribution Corporation Ltd (TANGEDCO), and to allocate the power surrendered by the Delhi government to it.

-------------------------------------------------
Tamil Nadu moves Supreme Court, seeks power supply from Centre
Press Trust of India
State wants 1,721 MW surrendered by Delhi in winter months

New Delhi, Oct 29:
“The Central Government has not taken necessary measures and has not provided with adequate infrastructural facilities to ensure smooth inter-state transmission of power.

The Central Government has, therefore, failed in its statutory duty to provide for these facilities as mandated by the Electricity Act, 2003,” the petition said.

The State has also stated that “people of Tamil Nadu are reeling under the massive power cuts going up to 12 hours every day. The industrial sector is subjected to 40 per cent demand and energy cut. The agricultural sector is the worst hit sector affecting food production”.

The petition also submitted that the North, East, West and North-East regions, except the Southern region, are integrated into a Unified Grid (NEW grid) by which, there is a free flow of electricity among these four regions.

However, it said, the Southern region consisting of Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and Puducherry are not connected to the NEW grid, due to which the Southern states, and more particularly Tamil Nadu, are not getting adequate power supply and have to depend primarily on the electricity generated within the region.

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