Do you let your servant sit and eat with you at your dinner table?

by Rishi Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:30 pm

Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

by Rishi Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:34 pm

I think this kind of thinking is an example of misplaced sense of fairness and equality.

What about the privacy for your family and yourself?

by confuzzled dude Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:39 pm

Rishi wrote: Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family

Of course.. of course.. I'm the driver who also happens to pick up the tab.

by Sandee2020 Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:56 pm

Servants sitting on the floor and not on the sofa or chair: I was ill at ease when I visited my home in India after several years of staying in US. I could not bear to see the sight of servants sitting on the floor, or being asked to serve food and drink. Two different cultures of 2 different worlds. The servants would not sit on the chair or sofa with me, they were not comfortable, being raised that way for all their life.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:04 pm

"Do you let your servant sit and eat with you at your dinner table?"

>>> Now find out if the queen of England has her butler, cook and lady-in-the-waiting sitting and eating on the same dinner table eating their meals when she is eating her dinner on that table?

by Hellsangel Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:08 pm

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:18 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote: "Do you let your servant sit and eat with you at your dinner table?"

>>> Now find out if the queen of England has her butler, cook and lady-in-the-waiting sitting and eating on the same dinner table eating their meals when she is eating her dinner on that table?

After you find out the above, you can do the same for the U.S. to find whether servants there share the dinner table with their masters.

by Nila Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:49 pm

Firstly, I need to afford a servant and then I will have to think about having dinner together - which means a stay at home servant - which will not happen in my lifetime.

Pass.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:05 pm

Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

We never had permanent servant in our home. But, our servant who came in the morning will be asked to eat first and she would get the same hot dosai or idly with everything and usually second/third servings. There are lot more stories but casteism was/is Zero in my family and no separate glasses or coming through the back door.

But, that was just in our house...

by Nila Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:23 pm

Racism or discrimination exists in all parts of the world and in developed countries it is more hidden and not very transparent like in India. Of all years of presidency US has only one half white president. Brits addressed Indians as Indian dogs? So?

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:40 pm

Nila wrote:Racism or discrimination exists in all parts of the world and in developed countries it is more hidden and not very transparent like in India. Of all years of presidency US has only one half white president. Brits addressed Indians as Indian dogs? So?

This is an idiotic post, in the same line as supporting the caste based quotas by Govt. The servants are hired to do the work / job and not for sharing the meals at dinner tables with masters / bosses.

by southindian Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:34 pm

Let's see how many pretend to be...not racists.

My home helpers (parents call servants) in India sit on the floor.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:15 pm

southindian wrote:Let's see how many pretend to be...not racists.

My home helpers (parents call servants) in India sit on the floor.

If you think people who do not share the dinner table with their servants are racists, then you are totally ignorant.

by Kris Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:05 am

[quote="Rishi"] Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?

>>>>Good question!

3. .... Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

>>> It is not that they are not thought of as human. It may be that often they are not thought of. Period.

by Captain Bhankas Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:13 am

we have never had a full time domestic help working for us. we have always had someone who does the dishes and a cook who cooks food for us. both the ladies refuse food/tea when we offer it to them. on a rare occasion when they accepted a cup of tea, they drank it in the same cup that we use.

by Kris Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:27 am

we have never had a full time domestic help working for us. >>That thou art, Svetaketu! Smile

by Captain Bhankas Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:43 am

haha!

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:57 am

Kris wrote:

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?

Silly question. Don't people these days, when they meet, ask about each other's profession or what one does for a living? Asking about one's caste (the title of profession long ago in the family) started in the same way. Btw not everyone these days asks about other's caste.

Kris wrote:

3. .... Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?
It is not that they are not thought of as human. It may be that often they are not thought of. Period.

Having dignity for your servant, employee or worker, who is hired to provide a service to you in exchange for money, does not mean you share the dinner table with him / her.
Your dinner table (during your meals) is for you, your family and guests etc. and not for sharing / sitting with the paid help (servants and employees).
It has nothing to do with dignity .. do you think the queen does not have any respect or consideration for her employees (servants, butlers etc.) because she may not like to have them sitting / eating at her dinner table or in the dining room when she is having her dinner there?

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by Hellsangel Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:09 am

Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family -

What kind of an idiot is this Anu Mallu to come up with this?

by Kris Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:16 am

Hellsangel wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family -

What kind of an idiot is this Anu Mallu to come up with this?

>>>>He may be the mafia, with visions of clemenza working on the marinara, while the family is having a sitdown dinner. The driver is a pretty key individual what with the importance of the getaway car..

by Hellsangel Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:17 am

Kris wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family -

What kind of an idiot is this Anu Mallu to come up with this?

>>>>He may be the mafia, with visions of clemenza working on the marinara, while the family is having a sitdown dinner. The driver is a pretty key individual what with the importance of the getaway car..

Even there, the 'driver' is not sitting with the family.

PS: I know your reply was TIC. But it is weird that people get these notions about the West.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:25 am

Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

by Rishi Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:31 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

Is it not the legacy of the British rule?

They even coined the term government servant.

What do you think we should call a person who works in somebody's home?

Also please answer the following.

1. Should someone offer food to people who work in his or her home?
2. And if they offer food, should they let them eat along with them at their dinner table?

by goodcitizn Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:08 pm

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

Reminds me of the lines from Pretty Woman where Edward (Richard Gere) tells Vivian (Julia Roberts), "You know I never treated you like a prostitute," to which she responds, "You just did!"

by Jebediah Mburuburu Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:45 pm

Rishi wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

Is it not the legacy of the British rule?

They even coined the term government servant.

What do you think we should call a person who works in somebody's home?

Also please answer the following.

1. Should someone offer food to people who work in his or her home?
2. And if they offer food, should they let them eat along with them at their dinner table?

i asked you a simple Q; please give me a simple A.

by Rishi Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:50 pm

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

Is it not the legacy of the British rule?

They even coined the term government servant.

What do you think we should call a person who works in somebody's home?

Also please answer the following.

1. Should someone offer food to people who work in his or her home?
2. And if they offer food, should they let them eat along with them at their dinner table?

i asked you a simple Q; please give me a simple A.

I call them servants because that is the word that has been used by everyone I came across in my life in India regardles of their caste, religion and the language they spoke. As simple as that.

by Guest Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:59 pm

Rishi wrote:
I call them servants because that is the word that has been used by everyone I came across in my life in India regardles of their caste, religion and the language they spoke. As simple as that.

That's one of the things handed down by the british. Also, note the way the letters are signed off with a, 'yours faithfully', 'yours sincerely', 'yours truly', 'yours obediently', 'yours respectfully', etc. All these were the hand-downs from the british. Ppl think you are nuts if you write like that in US. Thankfully, no one uses the term 'servant' either in US.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:20 pm

Rishi wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Rishi wrote: Anu nice mallu • 10 hours ago

−

Agree fully. I am an Indian staying in India, but frequently travel all over the world. I don't see racism or discrimination in Europe or US. But I do see it blatantly in India - I am giving a few examples which many of you can easily identify with:

1. When we meet a stranger, the first thing we ask is which state he/she belongs to and his/her caste. Why? What does his/her place of birth or caste/surname got to do with the whatever interaction is happening?
2. Look up matrimonial advertisements in any newspaper, and look at "Bride wanted" section - 9 out of 10 will say they are looking for a "fair" (gori) girl. Even half the TV ads are of skin fairness. I think we are the most racist country on earth - and should start calling our selves an "apartheid" (apart-hide) regime picking this work from South African history. We are so shallow - we look only at the whiteness of the skin, and forget that the whiteness is good for only one day/night, but the nature and talent/skill of the person is forever.
3. Our maid/driver is given her/his tea/food separately and has to sit on the floor or drink/eat it outside the house. Compare to Europe/US, where the driver eats with the family - just go to any tourist place in Rajasthan where most foreign tourists go, and you will see their cab driver eating with them - and provide proper hotel room for their drivers. Why do we think servants - who serve us - are not human? Or deserve no dignity?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/planning-to-visit-uk-get-ready-to-pay-rs-2-7-lakh-visa-deposit-899855.html

no matter how other people treat a person who works in their home, why do you refer to him/her as a servant?

Is it not the legacy of the British rule?

They even coined the term government servant.

What do you think we should call a person who works in somebody's home?

Also please answer the following.

1. Should someone offer food to people who work in his or her home?
2. And if they offer food, should they let them eat along with them at their dinner table?

i asked you a simple Q; please give me a simple A.

I call them servants because that is the word that has been used by everyone I came across in my life in India regardles of their caste, religion and the language they spoke. As simple as that.

one is not obliged to emulate everyone else. try "sundaram" - but only if his name is sundaram - instead of "the servant" or "my servant."

by nevada Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:53 pm

Is Jebediah Mbururburu a new handle for Jeremiah Mburuburu?

by Jebediah Mburuburu Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:55 pm

nevada wrote:Is Jebediah Mbururburu a new handle for Jeremiah Mburuburu?

yes.

by Hellsangel Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:16 pm

The politically correct term now is "helper":

Do you let your servant sit and eat with you at your dinner table? The_help01

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:23 pm

it's been the help for a very long time. did you just discover it? whatever it is, it always sounds bad. i think referring to them by name is the best solution.

by Hellsangel Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:35 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's been the help for a very long time. did you just discover it? whatever it is, it always sounds bad. i think referring to them by name is the best solution.

Cute, ll Professore. You never think of former colonies when you put your US blinders on. It has always been' the help' in the US.

BTW, it would really sound stupid if you were talking to a 3rd person said 'Anne made waffles for breakfast today', as opposed to 'My helper made waffles for breakfast today.', when the 3rd person doesn't know who Anne is.

If someone asks you who cleans your house, would you say 'Anne' or 'my helper'?

by churi. Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:41 pm

Just read the first half dozen or so posts, and....what's with Indians using the word "servant" all the time, ugh! I cringe every time I hear some H4 talk longingly about their battery of "servants" in India. Please stop using that word.

by Petrichor Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:48 pm

What is wrong with "S, my cleaning lady, does the bathrooms on Fridays." ?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:52 pm

we call her a'sandra the cleaning lady.
eta: just saw barchu's post. ditto.

i like "the help" just as much as i like "servant". there is something really cringe inducing about these words. no two ways about it. sorry folks, this is not about being pc.
about two decades ago, the word "velaikAri" (loosely "the help" or "kAmwali") was perfectly acceptable in chennai. nowadays i see people referring to them by first name. it's been a long time since i've heard velaikAri.

by churi. Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:04 am

Where I come from, we used to use the word "domestic" - derived from "domestic help" I guess.
I find the terms "housekeeper" or "maid" much more appropriate.
If you are using the word "servant" in a first world country in 2013, then don't blame people for thinking you an idiot.

by Kris Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:43 am

churi. wrote:Where I come from, we used to use the word "domestic" - derived from "domestic help" I guess.
I find the terms "housekeeper" or "maid" much more appropriate.
If you are using the word "servant" in a first world country in 2013, then don't blame people for thinking you an idiot.

>>I haven't the word 'servant' in this country ever. My wife refers to her by her name and I say 'cleaning lady' when I can't remember her name, which is most of the time. She also comes with a couple of helpers whose names I don't know. I don't think I have ever spoke to her. I know the name of the guy who comes to do the lawn, because for some reason he asks that I give his checks under his first name; rather his daughter does, since he doesn't speak much English.

by Hellsangel Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:52 am

churi. wrote:Where I come from, we used to use the word "domestic" - derived from "domestic help" I guess.
I find the terms "housekeeper" or "maid" much more appropriate.
If you are using the word "servant" in a first world country in 2013, then don't blame people for thinking you an idiot.

Yep. A lot of the cleaning services have the term 'maid' in them. In Singapore and Hong Kong the extra bedroom for the 'helper' is still referred to as the 'maid's room'

by Hellsangel Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:56 am

Kris wrote:
churi. wrote:Where I come from, we used to use the word "domestic" - derived from "domestic help" I guess.
I find the terms "housekeeper" or "maid" much more appropriate.
If you are using the word "servant" in a first world country in 2013, then don't blame people for thinking you an idiot.
>>I haven't the word 'servant' in this country ever. My wife refers to her by her name and I say 'cleaning lady' when I can't remember her name, which is most of the time. She also comes with a couple of helpers whose names I don't know. I don't think I have ever spoke to her. I know the name of the guy who comes to do the lawn, because for some reason he asks that I give his checks under his first name; rather his daughter does, since he doesn't speak much English.

Tut tut tut Kris! Hiring illegal labor?

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