Judgmen'T' day

Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters.

UPA endorsed 'T' state unanimously.

CWC OKAYed too. HYd will be joint capital for 10 years.

Cd ,
just to help you out the next news item is Indian cabinet approves.
all congressmen have two legs and two hands.
they breath to live.

tell us something meaningful.

truthbetold wrote:Cd ,
just to help you out the next news item is Indian cabinet approves.
all congressmen have two legs and two hands.
they breath to live.

tell us something meaningful.

CBN doing Sikhandi, appears to be pretty good at it

Seriously though, I was only updating with latest news not taking sides nor praising Congress. I was very upset about bifurcation a couple of years ago but not anymore. Hope this will workout better for both sides.

confuzzled dude wrote:I was very upset about bifurcation a couple of years ago but not anymore. Hope this will workout better for both sides.

I am still worried about bifurcation, but I am also happy and sad today. It is a mixed feeling of apprehension, hope, and sadness. I feel sad about the political manipulation of young men to kill themselves for a new state, which in my estimation won't change all that much in the lives of people like them. More than a hundred young men killed themselves all over Telangana to make this happen. I am apprehensive about the coming fights that will pit Telugu against Telugu: about river waters, about a new capital for Seemandhra, about sharing Hyderabad as a capital in the interim, about splitting the assets and liabilities of the state equitably. And I am hopeful that Telangana will finally have the ability to get on the path of development -- not just the city of Hyderabad, but the rural hinterland which has been neglected for so long.

oh..ok. so it has been 'officially' declared.

confuzzled dude wrote:Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters. 

 
Actually,news reports indicates that Congress plans to consider Rayala-telengana at a later stage.
Wouldn't be a surprise, given that the politicians representing a big bulk (1/3rd) of COngress voters (Muslims) want it. According to  news reports, MIM and Ghulam Nabi Azad initiated this.     

So they might do this at any time. After all Congress is known to take short term decisions purely on short and long term electoral considerations, without any regard to the long term well being of people.

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters. 

 
Actually,news reports indicates that Congress plans to consider Rayala-telengana at a later stage.
Wouldn't be a surprise, given that the politicians representing a big bulk (1/3rd) of COngress voters (Muslims) want it. According to  news reports, MIM and Ghulam Nabi Azad initiated this.     

So they might do this at any time. After all Congress is known to take short term decisions purely on short and long term electoral considerations, without any regard to the long term well being of people.

I don't think so. You should come to grips with the fact that MIM's influence outside of the city is practically nil and should stop glorifying 'M's impact on this split, for your own good. Muslims in Anantpur are culturally very different than Hyd muslims (for that matter, Kurnool Muslims too, and I know quite a of few of them), they won't give two hoots to that dick Asauddin.

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters. 

 
Actually,news reports indicates that Congress plans to consider Rayala-telengana at a later stage.
Wouldn't be a surprise, given that the politicians representing a big bulk (1/3rd) of COngress voters (Muslims) want it. According to  news reports, MIM and Ghulam Nabi Azad initiated this.     

So they might do this at any time. After all Congress is known to take short term decisions purely on short and long term electoral considerations, without any regard to the long term well being of people.

 It's no surprise if they do it. Their main agenda is to make Rahul the PM in 2014. 

Here's the thing: BJP is a strong force in the telangana region. With their outmaneuvering, congress has/is reducing the influence of TRS and TDP. Jagan is against the formation of T, so he has no influence there. So the main rivalry is going to be between BJP and Congress. IF Modi is projected as the PMerial candidate against Rahul, most T'ites may vote for BJP, the gratitude for congress for granting them their state not withstanding. BJP in all probability could win more # of seats that Congress. That would be the mission unaccomplished for cong after all their efforts.  Tikka kudurutundi appudu.

kinnera wrote:
It's no surprise if they do it. Their main agenda is to make Rahul the PM in 2014. 

Here's the thing: BJP is a strong force in the telangana region. With their outmaneuvering, congress has/is reducing the influence of TRS and TDP. Jagan is against the formation of T, so he has no influence there. So the main rivalry is going to be between BJP and Congress. IF Modi is projected as the PMerial candidate against Rahul, most T'ites may vote for BJP, the gratitude for congress for granting them their state not withstanding. BJP in all probability could win more # of seats that Congress. That would be the mission unaccomplished for cong after all their efforts.  Tikka kudurutundi appudu.

Do seemapandulu fly!
 
Meeku inka kopam tagginattu ledu.

confuzzled dude wrote:

kinnera wrote:
It's no surprise if they do it. Their main agenda is to make Rahul the PM in 2014. 

Here's the thing: BJP is a strong force in the telangana region. With their outmaneuvering, congress has/is reducing the influence of TRS and TDP. Jagan is against the formation of T, so he has no influence there. So the main rivalry is going to be between BJP and Congress. IF Modi is projected as the PMerial candidate against Rahul, most T'ites may vote for BJP, the gratitude for congress for granting them their state not withstanding. BJP in all probability could win more # of seats that Congress. That would be the mission unaccomplished for cong after all their efforts.  Tikka kudurutundi appudu.

Do seemapandulu fly!
 
Meeku inka kopam tagginattu ledu.

 Ledandi. Inka konni rojulu patta vacchu. Aa tarvata cynical resignation. I'm trying to calm down, but it's tough. Chaala kopam ga undi. Will take time...

Hmmm..

"The administration of Hyderabad will remain with the Telangana government unless the Centre declares the city as a Union Territory for the 10 years it serves as the joint capital."

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130801/news-politics/article/telangana-govt-rule-hyderabad

confuzzled dude wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters. 

 
Actually,news reports indicates that Congress plans to consider Rayala-telengana at a later stage.
Wouldn't be a surprise, given that the politicians representing a big bulk (1/3rd) of COngress voters (Muslims) want it. According to  news reports, MIM and Ghulam Nabi Azad initiated this.     

So they might do this at any time. After all Congress is known to take short term decisions purely on short and long term electoral considerations, without any regard to the long term well being of people.

I don't think so. You should come to grips with the fact that MIM's influence outside of the city is practically nil and should stop glorifying 'M's impact on this split, for your own good. Muslims in Anantpur are culturally very different than Hyd muslims (for that matter, Kurnool Muslims too, and I know quite a of few of them), they won't give two hoots to that dick Asauddin.

I said news reports. These are not my views. On MIM it does not matter what your friends in Anantpur think about him, but rather on what Ghulam and Ahmed Patel and the Congress Coterie (who are decision makers) think about him. Persistently news reports have said that the two districts would be looked at later. Perhaps they plan to use it as a bargaining point to make TRS merge for ensuring enough minorities in Telengana to ensure Congress votes (after all Congress allegedly seems to care only about Muslims) OR  we never know. Nowadays it has become a fashion to get MIM's viewpoint on every single decision being made by Congress, notwithstanding the official split.

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Most likely a decision about 'T' state will be made by the time most of the SuChers wake up. Now the latest is there won't be a Rayala-Telangana; I guess they were testing waters. 

 
Actually,news reports indicates that Congress plans to consider Rayala-telengana at a later stage.
Wouldn't be a surprise, given that the politicians representing a big bulk (1/3rd) of COngress voters (Muslims) want it. According to  news reports, MIM and Ghulam Nabi Azad initiated this.     

So they might do this at any time. After all Congress is known to take short term decisions purely on short and long term electoral considerations, without any regard to the long term well being of people.

I don't think so. You should come to grips with the fact that MIM's influence outside of the city is practically nil and should stop glorifying 'M's impact on this split, for your own good. Muslims in Anantpur are culturally very different than Hyd muslims (for that matter, Kurnool Muslims too, and I know quite a of few of them), they won't give two hoots to that dick Asauddin.

I said news reports. These are not my views. On MIM it does not matter what your friends in Anantpur think about him, but rather on what Ghulam and Ahmed Patel and the Congress Coterie (who are decision makers) think about him. Persistently news reports have said that the two districts would be looked at later. Perhaps they plan to use it as a bargaining point to make TRS merge for ensuring enough minorities in Telengana to ensure Congress votes (after all Congress allegedly seems to care only about Muslims) OR  we never know. Nowadays it has become a fashion to get MIM's viewpoint on every single decision being made by Congress, notwithstanding the official split.. 

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/aicc-had-struck-a-secret-deal-on-rayalatelangana/article4983223.ece?homepage=true

 I told you so Moment. You need to learn more about Congress Skullduggery. But it is a sad state of affairs that Congress wants to reorganize states purely to suit their electoral considerations (just to ensure that there are enough Muslims (Backed by MIM) and Reddy's (Many Christians among them) to capture Power in Telengana perpetually, rather than long term development. It is clear Congress is the most communal party just in terms of their thinking. It is also clear they do  not care about Hindus as a whole or the Country Or long term development of indigenous people of Telengana.

If we open this route, each Entity which comes to power, will start changing states to benefit them.

rawemotions wrote:
 I told you so Moment. You need to learn more about Congress Skullduggery. But it is a sad state of affairs that Congress wants to reorganize states purely to suit their electoral considerations (just to ensure that there are enough Muslims (Backed by MIM) and Reddy's (Many Christians among them) to capture Power in Telengana perpetually, rather than long term development. It is clear Congress is the most communal party just in terms of their thinking. It is also clear they do  not care about Hindus as a whole or the Country Or long term development of indigenous people of Telengana.

If we open this route, each Entity which comes to power, will start changing states to benefit them.

I read this on DC earlier but this would be like cutting off the branch you are sitting on. Congress would lose a lot than to gain from this move at this point in time, suicidal, will put the bifurcation process back to square one. I don't see this happening.

Well their calculation is that they will get most of the 17 + 4 seats of Telengana, once you have new districts added (and there are enough Muslims to tilt the scale) and force KSR to merge. YSR might get most of the seats of Seemandhra (I still wonder about this as to why they were strong earlier in AP), but then he has no choice but to support Congress, after all Congress Controls the "CBI Hound". 
TDP is now neither here NOR there. BJP lost the support it had in Coastal Andhra-Vizag belt Long time back.

rawemotions wrote:Well their calculation is that they will get most of the 17 + 4 seats of Telengana, once you have new districts added (and there are enough Muslims to tilt the scale) and force KSR to merge. YSR might get most of the seats of Seemandhra (I still wonder about this as to why they were strong earlier in AP), but then he has no choice but to support Congress, after all Congress Controls the "CBI Hound". 
TDP is now neither here NOR there. BJP lost the support it had in Coastal Andhra-Vizag belt Long time back.

KSR who?  Math and logic is all fine but emotions play major role. This move will backfire and could blow up in their faces.

If AICC actually tries to pull off Rayala-Telangana, that can derail the whole bifurcation process, and the resolution may not pass in the Lok Sabha. I don't see BJP voting for a Rayala-Telangana. When R-T was proposed, I thought it was designed as a poison pill, so Congress can use its age-old two-faced tactics, telling each side that it is looking out for them.

confuzzled dude wrote:

rawemotions wrote:Well their calculation is that they will get most of the 17 + 4 seats of Telengana, once you have new districts added (and there are enough Muslims to tilt the scale) and force KSR to merge. YSR might get most of the seats of Seemandhra (I still wonder about this as to why they were strong earlier in AP), but then he has no choice but to support Congress, after all Congress Controls the "CBI Hound". 
TDP is now neither here NOR there. BJP lost the support it had in Coastal Andhra-Vizag belt Long time back.

KSR who?  Math and logic is all fine but emotions play major role. This move will backfire and could blow up in their faces.

 My Mistake! I meant KCR and associated TRS.

Is there a backdoor option for Congress to add 2 rayalaseema districts without parliament? Or pass t bill and bring rayala t later?
I can't fathom the political stupidity of this move. This ranks with tuglag's capital move and British salt tax. An out of touch politico group defining solutions for a geopolitically alien mass of emotional people. Only bad things come out of that situation.

truthbetold wrote:Is there a backdoor option for Congress to add 2 rayalaseema districts without parliament? Or pass t bill and bring rayala t later?
I can't fathom the political stupidity of this move. This ranks with tuglag's capital move and British salt tax. An out of touch politico group defining solutions for a geopolitically alien mass of emotional people. Only bad things come out of that situation.

I hate to say this but looks like this merger is getting some traction, politicians from these 2 districts are in touch with high command. If this happens rest of Andhra will be completely screwed as all of the water controls will be in 'T' state.

Congress leaders can do whatever they want but will people buy into that?

I don't think they can pass through parliament a bill which puts Kurnool in Telangana state. If I were a Seemandhra politician, I would never accept it, because Telangana can then unilaterally do what it pleases with Srisailam dam. Anantapur is less significant strategically.

As far as I know, there is no way you can add districts to a state without an act of parliament. This is because there is a schedule in the constitution that defines each state. So a bill to create a new state is actually a constitutional amendment. I am not sure if it is an amendment that requires a simple majority or a supermajority (there are both types in the Indian constitution).

I looked into the constitution, and it looks like you need a two-thirds majority to pass the amendment to the First Schedule. The bill itself may be called Andhra Pradesh Reorganization Act of 2013, and mentioned in the First Schedule listing Telangana as a new state. The bill itself would need a simple majority, and needs to pass along with the constitutional amendment. So in effect, you need a two-thirds majority.

You need 364 votes in the Lok Sabha to pass this. Here is the current makeup of the Lok Sabha, in order of support for the T bill:
- UPA, 229: will go along with Congress plan (may be even if it R-T, not T)
- SP, 22: likely to go along with Congress plan regardless (probably would like to hurt BJP in the new state if they can, with R-T)
- TC, 19: likely to go along with Congress plan regardless
- RJD, 4: likely to go along with Congress plan regardless
- BSP, 21: will support T, but not sure what they will do with R-T
- JDU, 20: will support T, but not sure what they will do with R-T
- NDA, 138: will vote for T, but not go along with R-T because that disadvantages BJP in the new state
- TDP, 6: will vote against T and R-T
- YSRC, 2: will vote against T and R-T

Unknowns:
- Left Front, 23
- DMK, 18
- BJD, 14
- AIADMK, 9

All other parties have 2 or fewer seats. This means that a T resolution will pass comfortably. But an R-T resolution will get 274 votes in favor, 146 votes against, with the rest up for horse-trading. Another 36 votes against would kill the bill, while Congress would need to get 90 more votes to make it squeak through. Even if Congress gets all of BSP, JDU, Left Front, and DMK to go along with R-T, they would still be 8 votes short.

So I don't think Congress has the votes to pass R-T. Why, then, do they keep talking about it? And why are T politicians talking to them, knowing this math? I hope Congress is not trying to pull another elaborate trick on Telangana like they did in 2009.

Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

He did say last week that he is against 'T' state and small states in general.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

Idéfix wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

UP is in absolute pits...Mulayam OR Mayawati both are notorious criminals; BJP and Congress no chance for 10 years....UP and Bihar should be merged with bangladesh

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

He did say last week that he is against 'T' state and small states in general.

that is bcz Mullayaam thinks he will be the next PM and he can win all 80 UP seats.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

UP is in absolute pits...Mulayam OR Mayawati both are notorious criminals; BJP and Congress no chance for 10 years....UP and Bihar should be merged with bangladesh

 Looks like the govt is bypassing many things in their haste to bifurcate the state before the election in 2014. Chidambaram is hinting that the cabinet will work on water-sharing, electricity, security, etc., before bringing T issue for discussion in parliament. I thought there will be a commission composed of both T and SA representatives to formulate these. How can the central cabinet make such decisions? What do they know about the local issues in AP? This Sonia is a dictator with no regard for views of people on matters that affect them. Apparently, she ordered a gag on union ministers from SA and the dogs obeyed her. Those guys will not get elected in 2014. Is she doing all this just for Rahul? Foolish.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

UP is in absolute pits...Mulayam OR Mayawati both are notorious criminals; BJP and Congress no chance for 10 years....UP and Bihar should be merged with bangladesh

 Looks like the govt is bypassing many things in their haste to bifurcate the state before the election in 2014. Chidambaram is hinting that the cabinet will work on water-sharing, electricity, security, etc., before bringing T issue for discussion in parliament. I thought there will be a commission composed of both T and SA representatives to formulate these. How can the central cabinet make such decisions? What do they know about the local issues in AP? This Sonia is a dictator with no regard for views of people on matters that affect them. Apparently, she ordered a gag on union ministers from SA and the dogs obeyed her. Those guys will not get elected in 2014. Is she doing all this just for Rahul? Foolish.

There is absolutely no way the union cabinet can decide on these issues without adequate representation from both T and SA. That is like the Democrats and Republicans in DC negotiating between themselves on the precise status of Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees as part of an Israeli-Palestine settlement, without either the Israelis or the Palestinians at the table!

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

UP is in absolute pits...Mulayam OR Mayawati both are notorious criminals; BJP and Congress no chance for 10 years....UP and Bihar should be merged with bangladesh

Be careful what you wish for! Google Mughalisthan. 
After all once the Muslim population > 30%, the Political Islamists want to enforce Shariat. 
With the moderate Indian Musims not inclined to  defend secularism and counter Political Islam 
like the Egyptians Liberals and Turkish Army, there is a danger of such proposals in 30-50 years

Already MIM folks are openly asking for borders just to ensure concentration of Muslims and nobody objects!

http://mughalistan.wordpress.com/
http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/make-way-for-mughalistan/
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013022432056/world/terrorism/an-islamic-coup-in-india-mughalistan.html

rawemotions wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Here is the latest kicker. Mulayam may not go with the T bill... he will stick to his "Principle" that he is against splitting Andhra or UP. With Durga controversy raging, he may decide to vote against T bill and blackmail congress on the Food sec Bill.

Regarding Constitutional amendment you guys are talking here, I can only laugh.

Yeah, if he opposes it, no big deal if NDA is still in favor.

UP is in absolute pits...Mulayam OR Mayawati both are notorious criminals; BJP and Congress no chance for 10 years....UP and Bihar should be merged with bangladesh

Be careful what you wish for! Google Mughalisthan. 
After all once the Muslim population > 30%, the Political Islamists want to enforce Shariat. 
With the moderate Indian Musims not inclined to  defend secularism and counter Political Islam 
like the Egyptians Liberals and Turkish Army, there is a danger of such proposals in 30-50 years

Already MIM folks are openly asking for borders just to ensure concentration of Muslims and nobody objects!

http://mughalistan.wordpress.com/
http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/make-way-for-mughalistan/
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013022432056/world/terrorism/an-islamic-coup-in-india-mughalistan.html

Thankfully with eversaffron BJP lead by uberpatriot NaMo Ji we don't need to worry about all that. Worst comes to worse we will unveil an ultratech Radh, and NaMo Ji will go on higtech Yatra wielding Pashupatastra. That should show those miscreants where they belong.

Idéfix wrote:
There is absolutely no way the union cabinet can decide on these issues without adequate representation from both T and SA. That is like the Democrats and Republicans in DC negotiating between themselves on the precise status of Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees as part of an Israeli-Palestine settlement, without either the Israelis or the Palestinians at the table!

Interesting, with Jerusalem, you have a dispute even though a more than 2000 year history states whose city it is. But with your own city, you twist history to what is convenient for you.

Hellsangel wrote:

Idéfix wrote:
There is absolutely no way the union cabinet can decide on these issues without adequate representation from both T and SA. That is like the Democrats and Republicans in DC negotiating between themselves on the precise status of Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees as part of an Israeli-Palestine settlement, without either the Israelis or the Palestinians at the table!

Interesting, with Jerusalem, you have a dispute even though a more than 2000 year history states whose city it is. But with your own city, you twist history to what is convenient for you.

Of those 2,000 years, how many years did the Israelites rule the city?

And I don't know what you mean by twisting of history with Hyderabad. I have said that for all 412 years of its history, Telangana has been contributing to its development as a city. That is the truth.

Idéfix wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Idéfix wrote:
There is absolutely no way the union cabinet can decide on these issues without adequate representation from both T and SA. That is like the Democrats and Republicans in DC negotiating between themselves on the precise status of Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees as part of an Israeli-Palestine settlement, without either the Israelis or the Palestinians at the table!

Interesting, with Jerusalem, you have a dispute even though a more than 2000 year history states whose city it is. But with your own city, you twist history to what is convenient for you.

Of those 2,000 years, how many years did the Israelites rule the city?

The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Idéfix wrote:And I don't know what you mean by twisting of history with Hyderabad. I have said that for all 412 years of its history, Telangana has been contributing to its development as a city. That is the truth.

LOL and  . Looks like you have no f'ing idea how the city was before 1990s. Major development in the city took place in 1990s and after, so much that the ones who were born before the 80s can't recognize the city that they grew up in. And as confezzled said somewhere, a lot of the central govt institutions and industries came up after the city became the capital (and because it is the capital city). They were not there before 1956. The 'development' that was there before the city became the capital and for the 412 years of its history were the buildings that the nizam built with the 'sweat and blood' of the telanganites...the assembly, the high court, OU university, niloufer hospital and a few other buildings. That's it. That is probably less than 5% (maybe even much lesser) of development that the city currently has.

Hellsangel wrote:
The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Nice. Going by this, if someone comes over to one of your homes - acquired or inherited - with well documented evidence that their distant ancestors lived in a home that existed on that very land and later migrated elsewhere, they can reclaim that piece of land from you.

smArtha wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Nice. Going by this, if someone comes over to one of your homes - acquired or inherited - with well documented evidence that their distant ancestors lived in a home that existed on that very land and later migrated elsewhere, they can reclaim that piece of land from you.

Moreover, India can claim all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and so can Iran. It would be just as "plain and simple!"

kinnera wrote:Looks like you have no f'ing idea how the city was before 1990s.

I was born in the 1970s, so I have seen Hyderabad both before the '90s and after. It looks like you are still angry. Anger destroys reason, so you might want to dial it back a tad.

kinnera wrote:Major development in the city took place in 1990s and after, so much that the ones who were born before the 80s can't recognize the city that they grew up in. And as confezzled said somewhere, a lot of the central govt institutions and industries came up after the city became the capital (and because it is the capital city). They were not there before 1956. The 'development' that was there before the city became the capital and for the 412 years of its history were the buildings that the nizam built with the 'sweat and blood' of the telanganites...the assembly, the high court, OU university, niloufer hospital and a few other buildings. That's it. That is probably less than 5% (maybe even much lesser) of development that the city currently has.

You are entitled to your opinions about the relative importance of different periods.

In my opinion, India developed a lot faster under in the last 20 years than it did in the first 40 years after independence. In the last 20 years, Indian cities everywhere developed -- in Seemandhra, Telangana, and outside Andhra Pradesh. Nallagonda and Warangal, which hardly have any Seemandhra claimants for selflessly developing them out of love for their Telangana brethren, are unrecognizable compared to what they were in 1990, and so are Vijayawada and Guntur. Hyderabad's development over the 20 years cannot be separated from the development of India, for you to claim it as an achievement of people from Seemandhra!

Yes, the industries CD mentioned came when SA people were in leadership positions. I acknowledged that part of SA leaders in developing Hyderabad. But because you seem to be overeager to put down the contributions of Telangana people to the development of Hyderabad, let me point this out to you. The reason those SA leaders put forward Hyderabad for industries like BHEL, ECIL, IDPL, DRDO, Midhani, etc. instead of their own hometowns in Seemandhra was not because of their altruism and love for Hyderabad. They put those forward because among all Telugu cities, Hyderabad has the best basic infrastructure and had the best chance of winning against other major cities that other states would suggest for the same industries. In other words, Hyderabad got those industries for the same reason it was chosen as capital in the first place: better infrastructure as of the '50s among all AP cities.

Based on the military technology our enemies had in the '50s-'70s, Hyderabad also had a strategically more defensible location in the heartland, compared to coastal cities that could have been attacked from the air or the sea; that is the reason for locating strategic military installations in Hyderabad and Bangalore instead of Kolkata, Mumbai, or Chennai which were bigger. When it came to defense installations, Hyderabad certainly benefited from its location vis-a-vis coastal Andhra.

Like I have said before, I think Seemandhra people played an important role in developing Hyderabad. I have said elsewhere that Hyderabad will not be a shadow of what it is now if Telangana leaders foolishly make Seemandhra people feel unsafe in the city. But there is no reason to belittle the role of Telangana people in developing Hyderabad. If you are too angry to see this, well that is not my problem, and I will keep stating the facts for you.

to idefix:

you gave a crude and vulgar telangana saying once (the 'guriginja' version in andhra). Why don't you apply that to yourself? You constantly call me 'angry', but fail to see how biased, unfair, greedy and illogical you are. Your regionalism has blinded you.

Think abt this. Ongole, a very backward and arid region is suggested as the new capital of SA. Hypothetically, if it is made the capital, won't all the focus be on it and the infrastructure of it improved tremendously? Won't it see a tremendous and fast paced development, surpassing all other cities? And because of that, won't the industries and businesses establish themselves in and around it? Won't it be a thriving city within a few decades? Well sir, that is what happened to hyderabad too. the infrastructure was better than other cities in AP *because* it is the capital city and hence the industries were established in it. Hyderabad wouldn't have been what it is had it not been the capital city. Had another city been made the capital instead of Hyderabad, all this paving of the infrastructure and development would've been focussed on that city and hyd would've been just another city like the other cities in AP. all your above BS isn't convincing at all.

kinnera wrote:to idefix:

you gave a crude and vulgar telangana saying once (the 'guriginja' version in andhra). Why don't you apply that to yourself? You constantly call me 'angry', but fail to see how biased, unfair, greedy and illogical you are. Your regionalism has blinded you.

Think abt this. Ongole, a very backward and arid region is suggested as the new capital of SA. Hypothetically, if it is made the capital, won't all the focus be on it and the infrastructure of it improved tremendously? Won't it see a tremendous and fast paced development, surpassing all other cities? And because of that, won't the industries and businesses establish themselves in and around it? Won't it be a thriving city within a few decades? Well sir, that is what happened to hyderabad too. the infrastructure was better than other cities in AP *because* it is the capital city and hence the industries were established in it. Hyderabad wouldn't have been what it is had it not been the capital city. Had another city been made the capital instead of Hyderabad, all this paving of the infrastructure and development would've been focussed on that city and hyd would've been just another city like the other cities in AP. all your above BS isn't convincing at all.

 ఎలుకతోక తెచ్చి ఎందాక ఉతికినా
నలుపు నలుపేగాని తెలుపురాదు
కొయ్యబొమ్మను తెచ్చి కొట్టినా పల్కునా
విస్వదాభిరామ వినుర వేమ

హి హి హి హి

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

kinnera wrote:to idefix:

you gave a crude and vulgar telangana saying once (the 'guriginja' version in andhra). Why don't you apply that to yourself? You constantly call me 'angry', but fail to see how biased, unfair, greedy and illogical you are. Your regionalism has blinded you.

Think abt this. Ongole, a very backward and arid region is suggested as the new capital of SA. Hypothetically, if it is made the capital, won't all the focus be on it and the infrastructure of it improved tremendously? Won't it see a tremendous and fast paced development, surpassing all other cities? And because of that, won't the industries and businesses establish themselves in and around it? Won't it be a thriving city within a few decades? Well sir, that is what happened to hyderabad too. the infrastructure was better than other cities in AP *because* it is the capital city and hence the industries were established in it. Hyderabad wouldn't have been what it is had it not been the capital city. Had another city been made the capital instead of Hyderabad, all this paving of the infrastructure and development would've been focussed on that city and hyd would've been just another city like the other cities in AP. all your above BS isn't convincing at all.

 ఎలుకతోక తెచ్చి ఎందాక ఉతికినా
నలుపు నలుపేగాని తెలుపురాదు
కొయ్యబొమ్మను తెచ్చి కొట్టినా పల్కునా
విస్వదాభిరామ వినుర వేమ

హి హి హి హి

 Nijame. i am just wasting my time here. there's another one too, something that goes like this: isukanunchi noone pinda vacchu, kundeluki kommulu teppinchavacchu, you can do similar impossible things, but m******* manasu ranjimparadu- ani. This is such a waste of time! I am trying my level best to stay off, but keep getting sucked into this :-). Ippudiki ikkada katti pedatanu. gn!

kinnera wrote:to idefix:

you gave a crude and vulgar telangana saying once (the 'guriginja' version in andhra). Why don't you apply that to yourself? You constantly call me 'angry', but fail to see how biased, unfair, greedy and illogical you are. Your regionalism has blinded you.

Think abt this. Ongole, a very backward and arid region is suggested as the new capital of SA. Hypothetically, if it is made the capital, won't all the focus be on it and the infrastructure of it improved tremendously? Won't it see a tremendous and fast paced development, surpassing all other cities? And because of that, won't the industries and businesses establish themselves in and around it? Won't it be a thriving city within a few decades? Well sir, that is what happened to hyderabad too. the infrastructure was better than other cities in AP *because* it is the capital city and hence the industries were established in it. Hyderabad wouldn't have been what it is had it not been the capital city. Had another city been made the capital instead of Hyderabad, all this paving of the infrastructure and development would've been focussed on that city and hyd would've been just another city like the other cities in AP. all your above BS isn't convincing at all.

Hyderabad was the largest Telugu city in 1955. It did not have to surpass any other city to attain that status. 

The Fazal Ali Commission (aka States Reorganization Commission) report of 1955 said: 

This will also solve the difficult and vexing problem of finding a permanent capital for Andhra, the twin cities of Hyderabad and Secunderabad are very well suited to be the capital of Vishalandhra.


Seemandhra then did not have any city to match Hyderabad as a potential capital city. And it does not now. 

BTW, the same report in 1955 said: 

The existing Andhra State has faced a financial problem of some magnitude ever since it was created and in comparison with Telangana the existing Andhra State has a low per capita revenue. Telangana, on ther other hand, is much less likely to be faced with financial embarrassment. The much higher incidence of land revenue in Telangana and an excise revenue of the order of Rs.5 crores per annum principally explain this difference. 



In other words, the revenue problem that Seemandhra will now have because of bifurcation actually predates unification. 

The commission recommended:

After taking all these factors into consideration we have come to the conclusions that it will be in the interests of Andhra as well as Telangana, if for the present, the Telangana area is to constitute into a separate State, which may be known as the Hyderabad State with provision for its unification with Andhra after the general elections likely to be held in or about 1961 if by a two thirds majority the legislature of the residency Hyderabad State expresses itself in favor of such unification.


http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/India_States_Reorganisation_Commission_Report_Telangana_Andhra

kinnera wrote:Think abt this. Ongole, a very backward and arid region is suggested as the new capital of SA. Hypothetically, if it is made the capital, won't all the focus be on it and the infrastructure of it improved tremendously? Won't it see a tremendous and fast paced development, surpassing all other cities? And because of that, won't the industries and businesses establish themselves in and around it? Won't it be a thriving city within a few decades? Well sir, that is what happened to hyderabad too.

Now you can see that you were just BSing with your hypothetical about Ongole. Hyderabad was already six times the size of the next largest Telugu city, so there was no need for it to surpass any Telugu city to get where it is.

kinnera wrote:all your above BS isn't convincing at all.

It is funny you should say that.

Idéfix wrote:

smArtha wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Nice. Going by this, if someone comes over to one of your homes - acquired or inherited - with well documented evidence that their distant ancestors lived in a home that existed on that very land and later migrated elsewhere, they can reclaim that piece of land from you.

Moreover, India can claim all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and so can Iran. It would be just as "plain and simple!"

Let me ask you a simple question. Does Kashmir (all of it) belong to India? You can answer with a yes or no.

Hellsangel wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

smArtha wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Nice. Going by this, if someone comes over to one of your homes - acquired or inherited - with well documented evidence that their distant ancestors lived in a home that existed on that very land and later migrated elsewhere, they can reclaim that piece of land from you.

Moreover, India can claim all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and so can Iran. It would be just as "plain and simple!"

Let me ask you a simple question. Does Kashmir (all of it) belong to India? You can answer with a yes or no.

But why stop at Kashmir? Why not claim Pakistan and Afghanistan using your logic?

Idéfix wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

smArtha wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
The city has at least a 5000 year history. This is like asking for how many years did Indians rule India in its history. The city belongs to Israel plain and simple.

Nice. Going by this, if someone comes over to one of your homes - acquired or inherited - with well documented evidence that their distant ancestors lived in a home that existed on that very land and later migrated elsewhere, they can reclaim that piece of land from you.

Moreover, India can claim all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and so can Iran. It would be just as "plain and simple!"

Let me ask you a simple question. Does Kashmir (all of it) belong to India? You can answer with a yes or no.

But why stop at Kashmir? Why not claim Pakistan and Afghanistan using your logic?

No answer on Kashmir?