Raising a girl child in North India.

by TruthSeeker Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:11 pm

A few rules, that I grew up with:

1. Always make your son touch your daughter's feet on Raakhi, and take blessings, even if she is the younger one.
2. Irrespective of age difference, a woman NEVER touches anyone's feet. If she does, its a sin.
3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

I grew up with above traditions. And fortunately, a family still also follows #3 above in US, for the little boys to see it, at a young age.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:56 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.

that's true toothseeker, but why not treat them as simply your equals, just normal humans? putting them on a pedestal is not the only alternative to sex objectification. haha @ feet washing. i thought this type of weirdness only exists amongst southern baptists and other evangelical faiths in the US. didn't realize northindian hindus also do this.

by TruthSeeker Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:00 am

You are not entitled to reply to any post which is "broader" than "language or region". Your mind is incapable to go beyond those boundaries. Even "gender" is broader for your narrow mindset. Find an Iyer, or is it Iyenger which is a higher caste in Tambis, for your daughter. Bottomline - Your narrow mindset is simply not capable to see any of my viewpoint, in any post.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:04 am

toothseeker -- what's the significance of the "quotes"?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:07 am

bagchi et al -- does this feet washing stuff really happen or has hooch night come earlier than the usual thursday?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:08 am

TruthSeeker wrote:A few rules, that I grew up with:

3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.

The one of the things that I will never forget was when I was 8 or 9, I was in Bangalore visiting my aunt. The neighborhood girls went in groups to invite people to their homes to see the doll arrangement. I was super pissed and argued with my aunt and grandma that boys also should have the same rights as the girls and took a basket of sweets and candies and joined the girls to invite the people in the neighborhood. everyone was surprised to see a boy in the group and I explained my "principle"

Well.. if I had been a few years older, I would have gotten plenty of GFs...

Women are indeed treated as objects - sexually or otherwise - in Indian societies across the spectrum, and I dont think it will change. Look at the reaction of the modern girls and women. Pendulum will swing the other way.

by TruthSeeker Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:10 am

(-: @ my own post.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:56 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
TruthSeeker wrote:A few rules, that I grew up with:

3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.

The one of the things that I will never forget was when I was 8 or 9, I was in Bangalore visiting my aunt. The neighborhood girls went in groups to invite people to their homes to see the doll arrangement. I was super pissed and argued with my aunt and grandma that boys also should have the same rights as the girls and took a basket of sweets and candies and joined the girls to invite the people in the neighborhood. everyone was surprised to see a boy in the group and I explained my "principle"

Well.. if I had been a few years older, I would have gotten plenty of GFs...

Women are indeed treated as objects - sexually or otherwise - in Indian societies across the spectrum, and I dont think it will change. Look at the reaction of the modern girls and women. Pendulum will swing the other way.

i didn't know that gowNDers are as socially liberal as truthseekers. we are proud to have you amongst us. jai hind!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:25 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
i didn't know that gowNDers are as socially liberal as truthseekers. we are proud to have you amongst us. jai hind!

Not really....I just happened to be in a household with ultra-progressive people holding practically all political philosophies. Indeed there are many relatives who hold "traditional" views of women.

by Captain Bhankas Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:40 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:i didn't know that gowNDers are as socially liberal as truthseekers.

oye punchar pundit

why do you knead knock-kneed northindians so much?

by bw Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:05 am

TruthSeeker wrote:
2. Irrespective of age difference, a woman NEVER touches anyone's feet. If she does, its a sin.
3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

you are no north indian. it should be "navratri'. uff!

by Guest Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:17 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:bagchi et al -- does this feet washing stuff really happen or has hooch night come earlier than the usual thursday?

Never heard of feet washing of girls or feet touching on rakhis. maybe that's an extreme that we never got exposed to.

True that girls don't touch the feet of anyone within her own family, ever. They do so only at the in-laws after marriage. Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess. And this is precisely why girls don't touch the feet of anyone in her own family coz then it would be reverse reverence or something.

Btw. Not all NIs do this. Even my Rajasthani friends didn't know this culture, nor Marathi ones. I don't know about Punjabis. I think this is a very UP thing.

by Guest Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:32 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
True that girls don't touch the feet of anyone within her own family, ever. They do so only at the in-laws after marriage...
Btw. Not all NIs do this. Even my Rajasthani friends didn't know this culture, nor Marathi ones. I don't know about Punjabis. I think this is a very UP thing.

yes, you are quite right -- insofar as it is a strictly a UP thing (not even bihar). a few other things observed there:

- bhabhis (say your wife) are supposed to touch the feet of their nanads (say your sister) even if the nanad is younger in age;
- you never touch the feet of your mamas (mother's brothers) but do of the mausis (mother's sisters).

i read somewhere once that amitabh bacchan used to wash the feet of his father every day.

by Bittu Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:28 am

The only time I can recall this washing feet business is during Karva Chauth when the wife washes her husband's feet. All these rituals are pure BS in my opinion.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:07 am

random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:22 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.

alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:31 am

there's good reason to not raise a girl child in northindia; it's full of northindians.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:41 am

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.
alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.

my friend is tamil-telugu combo. more importantly, the priest is a thambi and he drives the wedding activities. what now?

* is your world crumbling now? it's probably safe to cast wider aspersions on hindus at large, that way you dont have to look stupid like the time when you insisted kanyakumari is in kerala and were made to take off your clothes and stand naked for all to kick. what say?

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:00 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.
alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.
my friend is tamil-telugu combo. more importantly, the priest is a thambi and he drives the wedding activities. what now?

* is your world crumbling now? it's probably safe to cast wider aspersions on hindus at large, that way you dont have to look stupid like the time when you insisted kanyakumari is in kerala and were made to take off your clothes and stand naked for all to kick. what say

you just admitted that your friend is part telugu. that's the part that wants to be northindian and get kicked in the teeth. self-respecting, intelligent people do not do what they don't want to do. the touching of feet is indeed a hindu tradition. the idea seems to be to humiliate oneself in order to show (false) respect for another.

by Petrichor Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:11 pm

The idea seems to be more akin to Virus1 meeting Virus2 somewhere along the small intestine, being totally awed by its circumstances and the munificence of the bigger human body within which it resides, and ascribing some level of divinity to the other, and having a very rudimentary understanding of human physiology, feeling the necessity of 'hanging in there, buddy' and prostrating itself and winning a meager, meek and miraculous existence with its compadre in prison.

It's all very passe, now.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:18 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
True that girls don't touch the feet of anyone within her own family, ever. They do so only at the in-laws after marriage...
Btw. Not all NIs do this. Even my Rajasthani friends didn't know this culture, nor Marathi ones. I don't know about Punjabis. I think this is a very UP thing.
yes, you are quite right -- insofar as it is a strictly a UP thing (not even bihar). a few other things observed there:

- bhabhis (say your wife) are supposed to touch the feet of their nanads (say your sister) even if the nanad is younger in age;
- you never touch the feet of your mamas (mother's brothers) but do of the mausis (mother's sisters).

i read somewhere once that amitabh bacchan used to wash the feet of his father every day.

is it a northindian tradition to slap your wife? do you get extra credit for doing so when her son and and her mother are watching? is it a northindian tradition for the wife to meekly accept the slap? would she touch your feet after getting slapped?

by Guest Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
True that girls don't touch the feet of anyone within her own family, ever. They do so only at the in-laws after marriage...
Btw. Not all NIs do this. Even my Rajasthani friends didn't know this culture, nor Marathi ones. I don't know about Punjabis. I think this is a very UP thing.
yes, you are quite right -- insofar as it is a strictly a UP thing (not even bihar). a few other things observed there:

- bhabhis (say your wife) are supposed to touch the feet of their nanads (say your sister) even if the nanad is younger in age;
- you never touch the feet of your mamas (mother's brothers) but do of the mausis (mother's sisters).

i read somewhere once that amitabh bacchan used to wash the feet of his father every day.
is it a northindian tradition to slap your wife? do you get extra credit for doing so when her son and and her mother are watching? is it a northindian tradition for the wife to meekly accept the slap? would she touch your feet after getting slapped?

like TS, you have passed your expiry date. henceforth i shall be ignoring you. bye and nice knowing you.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.
alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.
my friend is tamil-telugu combo. more importantly, the priest is a thambi and he drives the wedding activities. what now?

* is your world crumbling now? it's probably safe to cast wider aspersions on hindus at large, that way you dont have to look stupid like the time when you insisted kanyakumari is in kerala and were made to take off your clothes and stand naked for all to kick. what say
you just admitted that your friend is part telugu. that's the part that wants to be northindian and get kicked in the teeth. self-respecting, intelligent people do not do what they don't want to do. the touching of feet is indeed a hindu tradition. the idea seems to be to humiliate oneself in order to show (false) respect for another.

who are these self-respecting intelligent people? thambis, syrian christian mallus? PS: when do you think the son's gonna settle? I heard he hasnt completed his, excuse me, ha ha ha ha, BA but has been trying his hand at making some meaningless short films? and lately he's back to school after 10 yrs of the said dicking around to get a degree in, again excuse me hahahahahaaaaa.....liberal arts? how does that make you feel and is that why you never talk abt him?

by smArtha Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:06 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.

This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:13 pm

smArtha wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.
This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India

do any of these involve feet washing?

by smArtha Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.
This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India
do any of these involve feet washing?

All poojas are either the shorter 'pancha upacharas' aka 'panchOpachAra' (5 acts of worship) or the longer 'shOdasa upachAras' aka 'shOdasOpachAra' (16 acts of worship) by strict tradition. Over time people are doing a random subset of these based on what they remember or were taught or suits them. One of the upachAra is 'pAdyam' which is to offer water and wash the feet of the object of worship. It doesn't matter if they are worshiping people, idols, homes, vehicles, cattle or instruments/equipment the acts ordained by the specific upachAra is performed actually where possible or symbolically where not possible.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:30 pm

smArtha wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.
This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India

Am not sure if there are any Kanyas these days and certainly not too many poojas (a cityish name)would be a Kanya...

I agree with Bittu ji - all these are just plain BS considering the times.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:39 pm

smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.
This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India
do any of these involve feet washing?
All poojas are either the shorter 'pancha upacharas' aka 'panchOpachAra' (5 acts of worship) or the longer 'shOdasa upachAras' aka 'shOdasOpachAra' (16 acts of worship) by strict tradition. Over time people are doing a random subset of these based on what they remember or were taught or suits them. One of the upachAra is 'pAdyam' which is to offer water and wash the feet of the object of worship. It doesn't matter if they are worshiping people, idols, homes, vehicles, cattle or instruments/equipment the acts ordained by the specific upachAra is performed actually where possible or symbolically where not possible.

in all my years of growing up in a fairly observant smArthA home, i've never witnessed feet washing of one human being by another.

by Nila Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:40 pm

I don't like all this gender biased rituals and never followed it nor practiced it. I grew up by not sticking that bindi on my forehead coz my brother didn't. My entire family was against it but then they just killed their time.

I do like sundal, singing, and dancing during Navrathri and that's that.

by Jebediah Mburuburu Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:49 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:random uffs @this thread. my friend got married to a non-indian girl and this priest tried to get her to touch the feet of the husband as part of the ceremony. she almost threw a fit but did it anyways. so not strictly a naarthindian tradition.
alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.
my friend is tamil-telugu combo. more importantly, the priest is a thambi and he drives the wedding activities. what now?

* is your world crumbling now? it's probably safe to cast wider aspersions on hindus at large, that way you dont have to look stupid like the time when you insisted kanyakumari is in kerala and were made to take off your clothes and stand naked for all to kick. what say
you just admitted that your friend is part telugu. that's the part that wants to be northindian and get kicked in the teeth. self-respecting, intelligent people do not do what they don't want to do. the touching of feet is indeed a hindu tradition. the idea seems to be to humiliate oneself in order to show (false) respect for another.
who are these self-respecting intelligent people? thambis, syrian christian mallus? PS: when do you think the son's gonna settle? I heard he hasnt completed his, excuse me, ha ha ha ha, BA but has been trying his hand at making some meaningless short films? and lately he's back to school after 10 yrs of the said dicking around to get a degree in, again excuse me hahahahahaaaaa.....liberal arts? how does that make you feel and is that why you never talk abt him?

"who are these self-respecting intelligent people? thambis, syrian christian mallus?" -- propagandhi711.

asinine Q. people who mindlessly emulate the socially backward customs and traditions of northindians, in the hope of being more like them, only to be kicked in the teeth, show clear signs of a lack of self-respect, self-image, and intelligence.

the rest of your post is irrelevant and even more asinine. i have obviously hurt your feelings. if i had an adult son, i would not be telling him what to do with his life; i would not be forcing junnu down his throat; i would not be sending him off to thirupathi in a silk kurta and vest "stitched" for the occasion, or getting his head shaved, with a prayer that his investments yield high returns.

in other words, i am not a hindu. ja?

by smArtha Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in all my years of growing up in a fairly observant smArthA home, i've never witnessed feet washing of one human being by another.

smArtha families can be strong adherents to one form of God viz. Surya, Ganesh, Vishnu, Devi, Shiva or Subrahmanya. Or those that don't have strong affiliation to one form but are kind of similarly disposed to a subset of these forms. This is primarily a shAkta tradition that was adapted (with suitable variations on the rituals) to those smArthas who took dEvi worship in their families. In the sounth, you'll find this kanya pooja very prevalent in the families that maintain some affiliation to the sringEri and/or kanchi mathams. There is also a 'dampati pooja' performed during Navaratri that is worship of older couples.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:50 pm

Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Jebediah Mburuburu wrote:alright, then, it's a northindian tradition that telugus try to emulate indiscriminately, because the telugus want to be more northindian. however, it's not risk-free emulation, for the telugus often get kicked in the teeth by the northindians and others.
my friend is tamil-telugu combo. more importantly, the priest is a thambi and he drives the wedding activities. what now?

* is your world crumbling now? it's probably safe to cast wider aspersions on hindus at large, that way you dont have to look stupid like the time when you insisted kanyakumari is in kerala and were made to take off your clothes and stand naked for all to kick. what say
you just admitted that your friend is part telugu. that's the part that wants to be northindian and get kicked in the teeth. self-respecting, intelligent people do not do what they don't want to do. the touching of feet is indeed a hindu tradition. the idea seems to be to humiliate oneself in order to show (false) respect for another.
who are these self-respecting intelligent people? thambis, syrian christian mallus? PS: when do you think the son's gonna settle? I heard he hasnt completed his, excuse me, ha ha ha ha, BA but has been trying his hand at making some meaningless short films? and lately he's back to school after 10 yrs of the said dicking around to get a degree in, again excuse me hahahahahaaaaa.....liberal arts? how does that make you feel and is that why you never talk abt him?
"who are these self-respecting intelligent people? thambis, syrian christian mallus?" -- propagandhi711.

asinine Q. people who mindlessly emulate the socially backward customs and traditions of northindians, in the hope of being more like them, only to be kicked in the teeth, show clear signs of a lack of self-respect, self-image, and intelligence.

the rest of your post is irrelevant and even more asinine. i have obviously hurt your feelings. if i had an adult son, i would not be telling him what to do with his life; i would not be forcing junnu down his throat; i would not be sending him off to thirupathi in a silk kurta and vest "stitched" for the occasion, or getting his head shaved, with a prayer that his investments yield high returns.

in other words, i am not a hindu. ja?

IF you had a son?

in other words, you claiming that you never had a son called gautham that just returned to UCB to complete his, excuse me, hahahahah...BA in liberal arts after 10 yr absence, ja?

wait, did you disown him, hindu style? but ju are not hindu, ja? is this also a syrian christian cross synthesized custom?

by bw Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:08 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Also, after pooja and food on the last navratri day, adults touch the feet of young girls. Logic behind is that little girls are a roop of goddess.
This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India
do any of these involve feet washing?
All poojas are either the shorter 'pancha upacharas' aka 'panchOpachAra' (5 acts of worship) or the longer 'shOdasa upachAras' aka 'shOdasOpachAra' (16 acts of worship) by strict tradition. Over time people are doing a random subset of these based on what they remember or were taught or suits them. One of the upachAra is 'pAdyam' which is to offer water and wash the feet of the object of worship. It doesn't matter if they are worshiping people, idols, homes, vehicles, cattle or instruments/equipment the acts ordained by the specific upachAra is performed actually where possible or symbolically where not possible.
in all my years of growing up in a fairly observant smArthA home, i've never witnessed feet washing of one human being by another.

doesn't the father or brother of the bride wash the feet of the groom at traditional iyer weddings?

by Guest Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:58 pm

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
smArtha wrote:This is called the 'kanya pooja' and part of the traditional Navaratri poojas along with bommala kolu etc. There is an equivalent one called 'vatu pooja or vatuk pooja' followed at a different time aroudn shivrAtri but not as widely prevalent as this one. Kanya pooja is part of the shakti and smArtha - samayachAra traditions and is part of all areas in India whose families had this religious background - be they North, East, South and West of India
do any of these involve feet washing?
All poojas are either the shorter 'pancha upacharas' aka 'panchOpachAra' (5 acts of worship) or the longer 'shOdasa upachAras' aka 'shOdasOpachAra' (16 acts of worship) by strict tradition. Over time people are doing a random subset of these based on what they remember or were taught or suits them. One of the upachAra is 'pAdyam' which is to offer water and wash the feet of the object of worship. It doesn't matter if they are worshiping people, idols, homes, vehicles, cattle or instruments/equipment the acts ordained by the specific upachAra is performed actually where possible or symbolically where not possible.
in all my years of growing up in a fairly observant smArthA home, i've never witnessed feet washing of one human being by another.
doesn't the father or brother of the bride wash the feet of the groom at traditional iyer weddings?

Here's my speculation about Max's response:

"let me amend what i wrote, and say that i don't know any self-respecting Iyer doing that."

Razz

by pravalika nanda Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 pm

isn't their something called "kaalu kadigi kanya dhanam cheyadam" in hindu weddings?

by Idéfix Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:isn't their something called "kaalu kadigi kanya dhanam cheyadam" in hindu weddings?

Yeah, that is a ritual in traditional Telugu weddings too. I don't think they do that up north. They don't in the east.

by pravalika nanda Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:17 pm

Idéfix wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:isn't their something called "kaalu kadigi kanya dhanam cheyadam" in hindu weddings?
Yeah, that is a ritual in traditional Telugu weddings too. I don't think they do that up north. They don't in the east.

oh, flaman's got it the other way around: the northindians want to be like the telugus.

by Guest Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:38 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:isn't their something called "kaalu kadigi kanya dhanam cheyadam" in hindu weddings?

yeah, that's a common ritual at least in telugu weddings. The bride's father washes the groom's feet before giving away his daughter.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:41 pm

bw wrote:
doesn't the father or brother of the bride wash the feet of the groom at traditional iyer weddings?

He walks on the street for his "kasi Yatra" and obviously they wash his feet.... Razz

by bw Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:18 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
bw wrote:
doesn't the father or brother of the bride wash the feet of the groom at traditional iyer weddings?
He walks on the street for his "kasi Yatra" and obviously they wash his feet....

oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.

by smArtha Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:04 pm

bw wrote:oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.

Well, he is free not to revert back and continue on the kASI sojourn. To avoid such an embarrassment they ensure, by way of peLLi choopulu, if the bride can tempt him enough or not :-)

by bw Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:13 pm

smArtha wrote:
bw wrote:oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.
Well, he is free not to revert back and continue on the kASI sojourn. To avoid such an embarrassment they ensure, by way of peLLi choopulu, if the bride can tempt him enough or not :-)

what is peLLi choopulu? all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.

by Idéfix Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:18 pm

bw wrote:
smArtha wrote:
bw wrote:oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.
Well, he is free not to revert back and continue on the kASI sojourn. To avoid such an embarrassment they ensure, by way of peLLi choopulu, if the bride can tempt him enough or not :-)
what is peLLi choopulu? all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.

Marriage looks. You don't know marriage looks?

by bw Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:29 pm

Idéfix wrote:
bw wrote:
smArtha wrote:
bw wrote:oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.
Well, he is free not to revert back and continue on the kASI sojourn. To avoid such an embarrassment they ensure, by way of peLLi choopulu, if the bride can tempt him enough or not :-)
what is peLLi choopulu? all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.
Marriage looks. You don't know marriage looks?

marriage looks? no, i dunno what that is. "seeing the girl" thing? poNNu pathu-fying in tamil, i guess.

by confuzzled dude Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:31 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:A few rules, that I grew up with:

1. Always make your son touch your daughter's feet on Raakhi, and take blessings, even if she is the younger one.
2. Irrespective of age difference, a woman NEVER touches anyone's feet. If she does, its a sin.
3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

I grew up with above traditions. And fortunately, a family still also follows #3 above in US, for the little boys to see it, at a young age.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.

A.P politicians (both T & SA) mastered this art err.. North Indian custom of feet touching. Back in the day Indira was the goddess now Sonia. A couple them, affectionately called VH & KK took it to the next level; by licking goddess's feet during every visit they managed to become perennial members of Rajya Sabha.

by Idéfix Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:37 pm

bw wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
bw wrote:
smArtha wrote:
bw wrote:oh, that's another stupid ritual and he gets wooed back. it has been ages since i've been to one of these traditional weddings.
Well, he is free not to revert back and continue on the kASI sojourn. To avoid such an embarrassment they ensure, by way of peLLi choopulu, if the bride can tempt him enough or not :-)
what is peLLi choopulu? all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.
Marriage looks. You don't know marriage looks?
marriage looks? no, i dunno what that is. "seeing the girl" thing? poNNu pathu-fying in tamil, i guess.

Now, "seeing the girl" sounds positively sexist. As if the girl does/should not want to see the boy! We use the gender-neutral term peLLi-chUpulu -- peLLi is marriage (or wedding), and chUpulu is looks.

What do northindians call this thing? I can't remember.

by Idéfix Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:38 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
TruthSeeker wrote:A few rules, that I grew up with:

1. Always make your son touch your daughter's feet on Raakhi, and take blessings, even if she is the younger one.
2. Irrespective of age difference, a woman NEVER touches anyone's feet. If she does, its a sin.
3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

I grew up with above traditions. And fortunately, a family still also follows #3 above in US, for the little boys to see it, at a young age.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.
A.P politicians (both T & SA) mastered this art err.. North Indian custom of feet touching. Back in the day Indira was the goddess now Sonia. A couple them, affectionately called VH & KK took it to the next level; by licking goddess's feet during every visit they managed to become perennial members of Rajya Sabha.

Hahaha! These days the only politically correct form of feet-touching in India seems to be men touching the feet of women politicians, like Dr. Puratchi Thalaivi and the Empress. I haven't seen a woman politician touch the feet of a male political boss.

by confuzzled dude Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:06 am

Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
TruthSeeker wrote:A few rules, that I grew up with:

1. Always make your son touch your daughter's feet on Raakhi, and take blessings, even if she is the younger one.
2. Irrespective of age difference, a woman NEVER touches anyone's feet. If she does, its a sin.
3. Always celebrate the NI festival of Navarathri i.e. Invite 9 young girls, treat them as Goddess, wash their feet, and offer food.

I grew up with above traditions. And fortunately, a family still also follows #3 above in US, for the little boys to see it, at a young age.

Women are not sex objects, shamelessly abandoned to be chewed upon by stray dogs at birth,
TS.
A.P politicians (both T & SA) mastered this art err.. North Indian custom of feet touching. Back in the day Indira was the goddess now Sonia. A couple them, affectionately called VH & KK took it to the next level; by licking goddess's feet during every visit they managed to become perennial members of Rajya Sabha.
Hahaha! These days the only politically correct form of feet-touching in India seems to be men touching the feet of women politicians, like Dr. Puratchi Thalaivi and the Empress. I haven't seen a woman politician touch the feet of a male political boss.

Oh Yeah! I forgot, TN politicians have shamelessly ingratiated themselves with this north indian custom.

by goodcitizn Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:18 am

bw wrote:all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.

Doesn't the bridegroom insert rings on the toes of the bride? That's touching her feet. Not sure what the meaning behind that tradition is.

by bw Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:25 am

goodcitizn wrote:
bw wrote:all these goons come back. it's a good deal for them - they get new footwear, an umbrella and i think, even a walking stick.
Doesn't the bridegroom insert rings on the toes of the bride? That's touching her feet. Not sure what the meaning behind that tradition is.

it means that in addition to the noose around her neck(thali), he has a hoop around her toe just in case he needs to pull her by the feet.

there are some "scientific theories" floating around as well.

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