Intolerance

Bittu wrote:I am intolerant of homeopathy. Last year I found a huge stash of homeopathy meds in my daughter's closet, in a big blue box. At the time, my wife was in India. I emptied the box into the garbage can. When she came back she was pissed. Her mother is a big believer in homeopathy and gets her own meds. She gives them to my kids when they are in bed, just before they fall asleep. Doesn't this stuff contain sugar and isn't that bad for teeth just before sleeping? Why are the kids brushing their teeth if they are going to get a dose of sugar after that? Why are they being given these meds? They are not sick. What are we trying to cure?

My wife says "no harm in it. If these meds don't do any good, they don't do any harm either". This type of "logic" doesn't go down well with me. A friend of ours is now in India and I saw that my wife has sent her email asking her to get some homeopathic meds. I am pissed. Don't know why I'm so pissed. I should probably just let it be and get on with other stuff but I can't seem to do that.

My intolerance for the following increases with each passing year: god, religion, superstition, rituals, astrology, numerology, palmistry, homeopathy, vastu, horoscopes, feng shui...the list is getting long.

Bittu wrote: I should probably just let it be and get on with other stuff but I can't seem to do that.

Bittu wrote:I am intolerant of homeopathy. Last year I found a huge stash of homeopathy meds in my daughter's closet, in a big blue box. At the time, my wife was in India. I emptied the box into the garbage can. When she came back she was pissed. Her mother is a big believer in homeopathy and gets her own meds. She gives them to my kids when they are in bed, just before they fall asleep. Doesn't this stuff contain sugar and isn't that bad for teeth just before sleeping? Why are the kids brushing their teeth if they are going to get a dose of sugar after that? Why are they being given these meds? They are not sick. What are we trying to cure?

My wife says "no harm in it. If these meds don't do any good, they don't do any harm either". This type of "logic" doesn't go down well with me. A friend of ours is now in India and I saw that my wife has sent her email asking her to get some homeopathic meds. I am pissed. Don't know why I'm so pissed. I should probably just let it be and get on with other stuff but I can't seem to do that.

My intolerance for the following increases with each passing year: god, religion, superstition, rituals, astrology, numerology, palmistry, homeopathy, vastu, horoscopes, feng shui...the list is getting long.

FluteHolder wrote:This reminds me of a quote by a Famous astrologer who doesnot take a dime for his consultations. We donot bash/blame Civil Engineering filed/study/science for collapse of bridges/buildings. We would/should blame the engineers who built them for wrong design/construction etc.

I guess homeopathy is somewhat in that category. My son's skin rash couldnot be treated  or identified by more than few Allopathic docs but identified correctly with explanations and reasons and few days of treatments, it is gone. I guess it is a combination of ancient Siddha/ayurvedic  concepts.

FluteHolder wrote:I guess it is a combination of ancient Siddha/ayurvedic  concepts.

Captain Bhankas wrote:my wife swears by these meds and is a loyal. i've witnessed these meds working very well for her. not me though. for me, it is our friendly neighborhood physician (whom i have chosen based on his last name).

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Captain Bhankas wrote:my wife swears by these meds and is a loyal. i've witnessed these meds working very well for her. not me though. for me, it is our friendly neighborhood physician (whom i have chosen based on his last name).

You sir are a non-believer. Placebo (including God) doesn't work for non-believers.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

Dear Bagchiji, Homeopathy origins are in Germany. Hahneman (fondly called as Hanuman by Indians), father of Homeopathy was born in Germany. In India several universities offer BHMS degree, they will have to go through the same rigors as  MBBS students.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

FluteHolder wrote:I guess it is a combination of ancient Siddha/ayurvedic  concepts.

You guess wrong. This is good, old-fashioned quackery masquerading as a science. Those sugar pills are just placebo. I suppose many psychosomatic ailments, including auto-immune issues, respond to homeopathic treatment.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

Dear Bagchiji, Homeopathy origins are in Germany. Hahneman (fondly called as Hanuman by Indians), father of Homeopathy was born in Germany. In India several universities offer BHMS degree, they will have to go through the same rigors as  MBBS students.

Oh ok. Wonder if it is still practiced by Germans.

Same rigors as MBBS students, really? Do they do anatomy the same way? Are they attached to hospitals? Do they have night or emergency shifts?

Vidya Bagchi wrote:GC if it was a wart, they shrink on their own too. Son had one under his finger nail bed, one doctor was like let's try giving him this antibiotic. I was like I am not giving him meds for 'trial'. Anyway, 1-2 more weeks and it was gone.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

Dear Bagchiji, Homeopathy origins are in Germany. Hahneman (fondly called as Hanuman by Indians), father of Homeopathy was born in Germany. In India several universities offer BHMS degree, they will have to go through the same rigors as  MBBS students.

Oh ok. Wonder if it is still practiced by Germans.

Same rigors as MBBS students, really? Do they do anatomy the same way? Are they attached to hospitals? Do they have night or emergency shifts?

Yes and Yes. In fact, in few places, BHMS & MBBS students attend anatomy practical classes together, in other words they are taught the same stuff.

Homeopathy Listeni/ˌhoʊmiˈɒpəθi/ (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- ὅμοιος- "like-" + páthos πάθος "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people.[1] It is widely considered a pseudoscience.[2][3][4][5][6]
Hahnemann believed that the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic remedies addressed these. The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body, called succussion.[7] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase the remedy's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where none of the original substance remains.[8] Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, considering the totality of the patient's symptoms as well as the patient's personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.[9]
Scientific research has repeatedly found homeopathic remedies ineffective and their postulated mechanisms of action implausible.[10][11][12][13] The scientific community regards homeopathy as a sham;[14] the American Medical Association considers homeopathy to be quackery,[15][16] and homeopathic practice has been criticized as unethical.[17]
The low concentration of homeopathic remedies, which often lack even a single molecule of the diluted substance,[18] has been the basis of questions about the effects of the remedies since the 19th century. Modern advocates of homeopathy have suggested that "water has a memory" – that during mixing and succussion, the substance leaves an enduring effect on the water, perhaps a "vibration", and this produces an effect on the patient. This notion has no scientific support.[19][20] Pharmacological research has found instead that stronger effects of an active ingredient come from higher, not lower doses.
Homeopathic remedies have been the subject of numerous clinical trials. Taken together, these trials showed at best no effect beyond placebo, at worst that homeopathy could be actively harmful.[21] Although some trials produced positive results,[22][23] systematic reviews revealed that this was because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias.[12][24][25][26] The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded by the laws of physics from having any effect.[27] Patients who choose to use homeopathy rather than evidence-based medicine risk missing timely diagnosis and effective treatment of serious conditions such as cancer.[28][29] The regulation and prevalence of homeopathy vary greatly from country to country.[30]

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Amazing stuff. They take same entrance exams too?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:It is tough luck persuading people who believe in homeopathy to believe otherwise. The belief is too strong. The least one can do is to draw the line when it comes to the kids. 

I have popped them indiscreetly as a kid when someone handed a few tiny bottles to my parents, just for trial. I don't even know what they were for. I ate them like candies and I ate them without any supervision whatsoever. Guess my parents had also concluded they are just sugar pills. Nothing good or bad came out of it. But then, I had them just for a week or two before they got chucked out. 

Question. If they treat variety of ailments, how come they all are same white color and size? Do they taste the same too? How do they manage to bring this uniformity?

Question 2. Is it practiced anywhere outside India? I mean by non Indians, coz there are some desi homeopathy prescibing people here as well.

Dear Bagchiji, Homeopathy origins are in Germany. Hahneman (fondly called as Hanuman by Indians), father of Homeopathy was born in Germany. In India several universities offer BHMS degree, they will have to go through the same rigors as  MBBS students.

Oh ok. Wonder if it is still practiced by Germans.

Same rigors as MBBS students, really? Do they do anatomy the same way? Are they attached to hospitals? Do they have night or emergency shifts?

Yes and Yes. In fact, in few places, BHMS & MBBS students attend anatomy practical classes together, in other words they are taught the same stuff.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Homeopathy Listeni/ˌhoʊmiˈɒpəθi/ (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- ὅμοιος- "like-" + páthos πάθος "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people.[1] It is widely considered a pseudoscience.[2][3][4][5][6]
Hahnemann believed that the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic remedies addressed these. The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body, called succussion.[7] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase the remedy's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where none of the original substance remains.[8] Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, considering the totality of the patient's symptoms as well as the patient's personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.[9]
Scientific research has repeatedly found homeopathic remedies ineffective and their postulated mechanisms of action implausible.[10][11][12][13] The scientific community regards homeopathy as a sham;[14] the American Medical Association considers homeopathy to be quackery,[15][16] and homeopathic practice has been criticized as unethical.[17]
The low concentration of homeopathic remedies, which often lack even a single molecule of the diluted substance,[18] has been the basis of questions about the effects of the remedies since the 19th century. Modern advocates of homeopathy have suggested that "water has a memory" – that during mixing and succussion, the substance leaves an enduring effect on the water, perhaps a "vibration", and this produces an effect on the patient. This notion has no scientific support.[19][20] Pharmacological research has found instead that stronger effects of an active ingredient come from higher, not lower doses.
Homeopathic remedies have been the subject of numerous clinical trials. Taken together, these trials showed at best no effect beyond placebo, at worst that homeopathy could be actively harmful.[21] Although some trials produced positive results,[22][23] systematic reviews revealed that this was because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias.[12][24][25][26] The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded by the laws of physics from having any effect.[27] Patients who choose to use homeopathy rather than evidence-based medicine risk missing timely diagnosis and effective treatment of serious conditions such as cancer.[28][29] The regulation and prevalence of homeopathy vary greatly from country to country.[30]

   this is the most HILARIOUS thing i have read in a long time. i'd be safer consulting deepak chopra.

Bittu wrote:There are two types of illnesses or afflictions. One that you will recover from and one that you won't. Homeopathy "works" for problems that will heal on their own. Kid runs a fever. Mom gets him some homeopathic meds. Fever goes away in a few days. Mom is convinced the homeopathic meds took out the fever.

It's amazing how supposedly educated people don't get this.

smArtha wrote:
This doesn't seem to fit your 'works for problems that heal themselves category'. How do you explain that? 

smArtha wrote:It started out like athlete's foot fungal infection but got worse. Antibiotics did diddly. It lasted over 4 months and I didn't want to go through a minor surgery because I was told it could grow back. I was amazed that the homeopathy treatment cured it. I haven't had any problem for years now. So there is some merit to it."

Idéfix wrote: IMO, other schools of traditional medicine, like Ayurveda, have a stronger claim as a scientifically sound medical discipline, and some of the remedies used in those systems are more likely to prove their efficacy in a double-blind test.

Idéfix wrote:The human body is very complex, and there is much that is not yet known about its workings. So there is a lot uncertainty when it comes to matters of health. And matters of health rank high in importance to people. When you have a high level of uncertainty of outcome, and a high degree of importance of the outcome, it is human nature to crave the illusion of control. We feel better when we think we are doing something that can make a difference to the outcome, than when we stand helplessly by. This, for instance, is the reason sports fans have their superstitions about what to wear, eat, and say when their favorite team is playing. 

When someone has a health problem without a clear cause and a clear remedy, people tend to turn to anything that makes them feel that it might improve things. Homeopathy IMO is one of those things. In an earlier, less sophisticated time, going to the village temple, offering a sacrifice, or getting the shaman to perform an elaborate ritual to expel the bad spirit causing the fever, provided the same illusion of control. In these times, people crave a theory of change that goes with the intervention: homeopathy, with its pseudo-scientific theories offers people the illusion of a scientifically sound remedy that might help them after all. 

Like CB, I think homeopathy is good for people who believe it works. It is better than feeling helpless that there is nothing that can solve their problem. For those of us who don't believe it works, it is not effective. Most science-based medicines do not come with that caveat: you don't have to believe in paracetamol for it to reduce the symptoms of a fever, and you don't have to believe in antibiotics for it to cure a bacterial infection. Their efficacy is established using double-blind trials in which neither the individuals in the experimental group, nor their physicians, know whether they are getting the drug or a sugar pill. This distinction is obscured when homeopathy is treated as a legitimate medical discipline. IMO, other schools of traditional medicine, like Ayurveda, have a stronger claim as a scientifically sound medical discipline, and some of the remedies used in those systems are more likely to prove their efficacy in a double-blind test.

goodcitizn wrote:

FluteHolder wrote:This reminds me of a quote by a Famous astrologer who doesnot take a dime for his consultations. We donot bash/blame Civil Engineering filed/study/science for collapse of bridges/buildings. We would/should blame the engineers who built them for wrong design/construction etc.

I guess homeopathy is somewhat in that category. My son's skin rash couldnot be treated  or identified by more than few Allopathic docs but identified correctly with explanations and reasons and few days of treatments, it is gone. I guess it is a combination of ancient Siddha/ayurvedic  concepts.

My grandfather used to give homeopathy medicines to villagers in Madanapalli. They used to come regularly even though he was a civil engineer by profession and studied homeopathy as a hobby.

Back in 1992, I contracted what seemed like athlete's foot from the gym. Soon the gap between my left big toe and the one adjacent was beginning to develop a corn-like growth causing me great discomfort while walking. I went to two different doctors here and the damn growth wouldn't subside. Surgery was recommended and, rats, I didn't want that. Coincidentally I had to visit India the following week. It was sheer torture having to wobble around with my sore foot. Once I got there, my uncle took me to a local homeopathy doctor. I didn't want to go but he was persuasive. And this doctor gave me a small jar containing little white pills asking me to take 3 at a time 3 times a day for a week. I had no faith but I tried nevertheless. To my amazement the growth began to subside. Within a week there was no trace of it. And I could walk with my shoes on with no pain whatsoever. The old adage, "Don't knock it unless you tried it", is absolutely true.

Idéfix wrote:The human body is very complex, and there is much that is not yet known about its workings. So there is a lot uncertainty when it comes to matters of health. And matters of health rank high in importance to people. When you have a high level of uncertainty of outcome, and a high degree of importance of the outcome, it is human nature to crave the illusion of control. We feel better when we think we are doing something that can make a difference to the outcome, than when we stand helplessly by. This, for instance, is the reason sports fans have their superstitions about what to wear, eat, and say when their favorite team is playing. 

When someone has a health problem without a clear cause and a clear remedy, people tend to turn to anything that makes them feel that it might improve things. Homeopathy IMO is one of those things. In an earlier, less sophisticated time, going to the village temple, offering a sacrifice, or getting the shaman to perform an elaborate ritual to expel the bad spirit causing the fever, provided the same illusion of control. In these times, people crave a theory of change that goes with the intervention: homeopathy, with its pseudo-scientific theories offers people the illusion of a scientifically sound remedy that might help them after all. 

Like CB, I think homeopathy is good for people who believe it works. It is better than feeling helpless that there is nothing that can solve their problem. For those of us who don't believe it works, it is not effective. Most science-based medicines do not come with that caveat: you don't have to believe in paracetamol for it to reduce the symptoms of a fever, and you don't have to believe in antibiotics for it to cure a bacterial infection. Their efficacy is established using double-blind trials in which neither the individuals in the experimental group, nor their physicians, know whether they are getting the drug or a sugar pill. This distinction is obscured when homeopathy is treated as a legitimate medical discipline. IMO, other schools of traditional medicine, like Ayurveda, have a stronger claim as a scientifically sound medical discipline, and some of the remedies used in those systems are more likely to prove their efficacy in a double-blind test.

confuzzled dude wrote:I would like to believe your theory but I can't imagine several 1000s of folks found relief from joint pains caused by Chickungunya(sp?) fever.

confuzzled dude wrote:They very same argument can be made about allopathic medicine as well, that paracetamol is curing jack, is only providing temporary relief, your immune system is what doing the actual work/cure.

confuzzled dude wrote:More importantly, nobody is suggesting this is replacement for modern medicine, it could be effective in some cases that's precisely what GC was alluding to and I wouldn't dismiss GC as a nutcase

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Wonderful! Confucius lived vigorously for a few thousand years swallowing ginseng and panda bear balls! hmm.....

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:ayurveda and siddha medicine should not be put in the same category as homeopathy. there is a great deal of empirical soundness to ayurveda as well as siddha medicine which cannot be said of homeopathy.

Idéfix wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:ayurveda and siddha medicine should not be put in the same category as homeopathy. there is a great deal of empirical soundness to ayurveda as well as siddha medicine which cannot be said of homeopathy.

I agree.

Bittu wrote:Idefix, nice write-up but all said and done, homeopathy is nothing but a placebo. You also can't convince me that there is a god.

As the man of the house, if I find these sugary pills anywhere, I throw them right away. This pisses off my follow-the-herd wife and I'd rather deal with her pissedoffness than just give in and let those sugar pills be. I know my MIL gets super enraged when she finds out I've thrown her precious meds. She can't get enraged *at* me though, so I guess she bottles it all in. That's good too because one day I hope all that bottled up rage causes sudden implosion of all her internal organs, so that she can finally meet her lords krishna and shiva.

goodcitizn wrote:Perhaps the non-existing God with a non-working homeopathy medication cured my foot problem.

Idéfix wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Wonderful! Confucius lived vigorously for a few thousand years swallowing ginseng and panda bear balls! hmm.....

IMO, the difference between traditional herbal medicine (ginseng, turmeric, neem, etc.) and homeopathy is this. In herbal medicine, you take significant quantities of a substance that had an observed correlation with good outcomes in the past. In homeopathy, you take a sugar pill that is known to contain none of the substance that you think cures what ails you. It is easy to see that turmeric, neem, or ginseng might help alleviate some problems, but it is hard to see how "the water remembers what was in it" before it was too diluted to contain much of the active ingredient in any pill.

Idéfix wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:Perhaps the non-existing God with a non-working homeopathy medication cured my foot problem.

Or you cured yourself. This interpretation has the added benefit of being aligned with the highest concepts of Indian philosophy, expressed in statements like "I am Brahman!"

Idéfix wrote:
My attitude to homeopathy is a little more tolerant.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Idéfix wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:ayurveda and siddha medicine should not be put in the same category as homeopathy. there is a great deal of empirical soundness to ayurveda as well as siddha medicine which cannot be said of homeopathy.

I agree.

what's odd is that the very methodical and scientific germans are credited with creating homeopathy.

Bittu wrote:

Idéfix wrote:
My attitude to homeopathy is a little more tolerant.

I used to be tolerant too but as the years go by, my level of tolerance keeps receding. I'm wondering if I'm going to turn into that classic cranky old man sitting by himself in the corner because he's forever bugged about something or the other. Why am I becoming so intolerant? Should I do something to curb this intolerance?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:btw, the neti pot of which i am a huge fan in winter, came out of ayurvedic medicine.