To Pravalika

by gone Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:58 pm

Just wanted to let you know that the hourly minimum wage for workers who receive tips is about two bucks an hour. So, they need your tips to make ends meet, and those tips come in only during peak meal hours: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And, they have to be on their feet all day, they have to come around to replenish your water every few minutes,, get your order right (if it's complicated), take the meal back cheerfully if you don't love it (and offer to replace it), ask if you would like any condiments or have any other special requests, and clear your dirty dishes when you leave.

So, they're not exactly sitting around. Dealing with people all day is more challenging than writing some code.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

by gone Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:03 pm

I bet your parents wouldn't hesitate to shell out a whole bunch of money at the temple to bless your new car or some other puja thing. That doesn't even really help anyone who served you. Unless you count putting a lemon and green pepper on a car, and chanting some religious text, as "service."

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:06 pm

let me begin by stating that i am a generous tipper, but i have some questions for you. when i enter a restaurant, i am transacting business not with the wait staff, but with the owner of the restaurant. why is it my problem that the wait staff are so poorly compensated that they are unable to make ends meet, and not the owner's problem? why isn't more of the onus on the restaurant owner? why am i being asked to cover for the owner's stinginess?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:07 pm

if your answer is that the owner cannot afford it and is relying on me to cough up the difference between what is an acceptable wage and what he pays his wait staff, then the whole business model (which relies on capricious clientele) is flawed don't you think?

by Hellsangel Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if your answer is that the owner cannot afford it and is relying on me to cough up the difference between what is an acceptable wage and what he pays his wait staff, then the whole business model (which relies on capricious clientele) is flawed don't you think?

What do you think of every restaurant adding a standard service charge to your bill?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:22 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if your answer is that the owner cannot afford it and is relying on me to cough up the difference between what is an acceptable wage and what he pays his wait staff, then the whole business model (which relies on capricious clientele) is flawed don't you think?
What do you think of every restaurant adding a standard service charge to your bill?

fine with it if it also says not to tip.

by gone Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:28 pm

I honestly don't know if the owners can afford to pay their employees more, although I do know that the restaurant industry is fiercely competitive and most new restaurants don't survive for very long. Sort of like any business I suppose.

In any case, if you can afford to eat out, you should be able to afford to tip. Or go to a self-service place like Chipotle or grab a slice of pizza if you don't want to tip. Or just cook! It takes less time to make a meal than to wait for it to be delivered.

But what is expecting some guy to deliver food in the pouring rain and feeling entitled enough to believe it's okay not to tip at least a couple of bucks?

by Hellsangel Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if your answer is that the owner cannot afford it and is relying on me to cough up the difference between what is an acceptable wage and what he pays his wait staff, then the whole business model (which relies on capricious clientele) is flawed don't you think?
What do you think of every restaurant adding a standard service charge to your bill?
fine with it if it also says not to tip.

I meant a standard service charge instead of a discretionary tip.

by gone Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:31 pm

I mean, my husband would always tip 2 to 3 bucks for pizza delivery (more during a snow storm) and he had crazy debt and yet, he always tipped appropriately.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:41 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
I meant a standard service charge instead of a discretionary tip.

yes i understood what you said and i am ok with that. when i visited germany often in another life, this was the case. not sure if it's like that in all of europe.

by Hellsangel Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:46 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
I meant a standard service charge instead of a discretionary tip.
yes i understood what you said and i am ok with that. when i visited germany often in another life, this was the case. not sure if it's like that in all of europe.

No. It isn't.

by smArtha Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:54 pm

mainstreet wrote:I bet your parents wouldn't hesitate to shell out a whole bunch of money at the temple to bless your new car or some other puja thing. That doesn't even really help anyone who served you. Unless you count putting a lemon and green pepper on a car, and chanting some religious text, as "service."

It helps the priest who, on the economic ladder, is often just a small step above the average restaurant waiter. Besides, why would you not consider this a "service"?

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:39 pm

mainstreet wrote:Just wanted to let you know that the hourly minimum wage for workers who receive tips is about two bucks an hour. So, they need your tips to make ends meet, and those tips come in only during peak meal hours: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And, they have to be on their feet all day, they have to come around to replenish your water every few minutes,, get your order right (if it's complicated), take the meal back cheerfully if you don't love it (and offer to replace it), ask if you would like any condiments or have any other special requests, and clear your dirty dishes when you leave.

So, they're not exactly sitting around. Dealing with people all day is more challenging than writing some code.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Hey we've hectored Pravu enough on this. Since your heart is overflowing with the milk of human kindness, why don't you write to your Congressman that it is inhuman for someone to work for $2 per hour and to depend on the kindness of strangers to make their ends meet, and that the minimum wage should be raised to a more reasonable number - like $7 or $8.

Also, how come the good folks at McDonald's don't demand tips?? They seem quite happy with their $8 minimum wage. And why should we feel sorry for someone who forgoes that minimum wage and instead opts for a variable structure built around tips??

by Guest Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:And why should we feel sorry for someone who forgoes that minimum wage and instead opts for a variable structure built around tips??

am totally for this variable structure. if i ever got a chance to live many lives in one life, i would try out becoming a waitress in a casino. Man, those lunatics shell out chips as tips like crraaajjeee. All I will need is legs half my current size (width). then i am golden.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:07 pm

Yeah its not a bad life. Waitresses in New York on average make 45K. Not bad for a job that involves taking orders and delivering food for roughly six hours a day.

Here's a breakup:
Moses Lee in Bayside, New York
13 months ago

I work at Harlem, Its considered fine dining and gets pretty busy.

Avg Day of Tips: 120
House Pay after taxes: $30
Total is $150-200 per day

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:15 am

Well, I had no idea how much workers who receive tips make hourly until this past weekend. We went to a major city and dined at some upscale restaurants, so I thought of asking the waitstaff what their hourly wage is.

Seriously, I don't think it's possible to live well on less than six figures in NYC. Survive? Sure. Be comfortable? Not unless you want to live in a dingy roach-infested hell that resembles a tiny closet. Either that or a rent-controlled apartment. Besides, the only reason someone is able to barely survive is because of tips. If they weren't getting tips, they wouldn't survive. So, you justify being a cheapskate and ease your conscience by "rationalizing" that others are kind enough to tip, so you don't need to?? Do you see the self-serving logic here?

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:31 am

The reason why the employees at McDonalds don't get tips is because there's little service involved and they don't attract the tipping clientele. Nor are they knowledgeable about gourmet food. They don't talk about the menu, they don't discuss the dishes, the ingredients, the specials of the day, the drinks, the wines, nada. Have you ever been to an upscale restaurant in Napa and listened to a waiter tell you what's in a dish? Just listening to the history and description of the dish will get you interested in ordering it!!

They certainly don't bring you any complimentary drinks or complimentary courses from the chef. Or take your plates away after each course. Or ask if you'd like any coffee or dessert. Or wipe your table down when you leave, so it's clean for the customer. Any mindless robot without a smile, a surly attitude, and poor personal hygiene can work at McDonalds.

I don't plan on writing to any member of Congress. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to eat out. They can cook, walk in the rain to get takeout, or dine out at McDonalds if they don't want to tip.

by Kris Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:59 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
mainstreet wrote:Just wanted to let you know that the hourly minimum wage for workers who receive tips is about two bucks an hour. So, they need your tips to make ends meet, and those tips come in only during peak meal hours: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And, they have to be on their feet all day, they have to come around to replenish your water every few minutes,, get your order right (if it's complicated), take the meal back cheerfully if you don't love it (and offer to replace it), ask if you would like any condiments or have any other special requests, and clear your dirty dishes when you leave.

So, they're not exactly sitting around. Dealing with people all day is more challenging than writing some code.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
Hey we've hectored Pravu enough on this. Since your heart is overflowing with the milk of human kindness, why don't you write to your Congressman that it is inhuman for someone to work for $2 per hour and to depend on the kindness of strangers to make their ends meet, and that the minimum wage should be raised to a more reasonable number - like $7 or $8.

Also, how come the good folks at McDonald's don't demand tips?? They seem quite happy with their $8 minimum wage. And why should we feel sorry for someone who forgoes that minimum wage and instead opts for a variable structure built around tips??

>>>Yep, it is pretty much market-driven. They knew what they were getting into. From what I recall hearing from a couple of friends who did part-time waitressing (while in college), the tips are a major draw. In fact, I remember one of them complaining about being a hostess and was hoping they would move her into a waitress slot quickly so she could make some serious tips. The place was an upscale steak joint, so maybe the tips were more there. There seem to be some established protocols on how much you keep for yourself and how much you dole out to others like the busboys. Despite this, the tips were seen as attractive.

by Impedimenta Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:19 am

i just have to know

a) how much does pravu make?
b) how much does pravu tip?
c) is pravu a nallavar or ketttavar?

The answers to one or all of the above will determine her tipping to money making ratio.

Well, that brings to my lunch thread preview - the most amazing italian place[i am told] in my neighboring state. YAY!

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:26 pm

I know the answer to (b). It used to be a dollar, but now it's two to three.

by b_A Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:06 pm

mainstreet wrote:Just wanted to let you know that the hourly minimum wage for workers who receive tips is about two bucks an hour. So, they need your tips to make ends meet, and those tips come in only during peak meal hours: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And, they have to be on their feet all day, they have to come around to replenish your water every few minutes,, get your order right (if it's complicated), take the meal back cheerfully if you don't love it (and offer to replace it), ask if you would like any condiments or have any other special requests, and clear your dirty dishes when you leave.

So, they're not exactly sitting around. Dealing with people all day is more challenging than writing some code.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

WOW! You are one smart person with those two advanced degrees.
Most people think that any tom , dick and harriet can do the job of a waiter/waitress and writing code requires advanced training and education. But then smart people like yourself, who have two advanced degrees, don't think like most people.

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:40 pm

Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:14 pm

mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.

for a lazy housewife that's used to sucking on daddy and hubby's teats for sustenance, you've got a lot to say about other entitled ppl.

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:24 pm

Hey! I didn't choose this lifestyle, okay? I have no choice whatsoever here. And just because my dad paid for six years of tuition, that doesn't make me lazy. I applied myself, got good grades, and had a career, an office with French windows from ceiling to floor, a house that I bought and paid off in five years. So, shove it, senile uncle.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:29 pm

mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't choose this lifestyle, okay? I have no choice whatsoever here. And just because my dad paid for six years of tuition, that doesn't make me lazy. I applied myself, got good grades, and had a career, an office with French windows from ceiling to floor, a house that I bought and paid off in five years. So, shove it, senile uncle.

yeah I had no choice, am a product of my circumstances, blah blah blah.

PS: I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the old retarded petra troll to show up. not long, it looks like. it's a quick slide into a hissy fit and the 100th quitting from here on.

let's face it: you're nothing more than a gujju ben that sits at home all day and gets fat assed like her mother and grandmother before her. only difference is the starbucks coffee and different shoes.

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:41 pm

Laughable! My mom is tall, slim, pretty. She dresses beautifully, wears the most amazing jewelry, and everyone tells me "your mother's gorgeous!" So, yeah, keep babbling immature nonsense.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:43 pm

mainstreet wrote:Laughable! My mom is tall, slim, pretty. She dresses beautifully, wears the most amazing jewelry, and everyone tells me "your mother's gorgeous!" So, yeah, keep babbling immature nonsense.

so you say, fatass. dollars to donuts she looks like she's smuggling a couple of seedless watermelons from costco on her back without paying for them

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:48 pm

It's time to block your handle and Pravalika's. I really don't have the time for toxic losers.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:48 pm

mainstreet wrote:Just wanted to let you know that the hourly minimum wage for workers who receive tips is about two bucks an hour. So, they need your tips to make ends meet, and those tips come in only during peak meal hours: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And, they have to be on their feet all day, they have to come around to replenish your water every few minutes,, get your order right (if it's complicated), take the meal back cheerfully if you don't love it (and offer to replace it), ask if you would like any condiments or have any other special requests, and clear your dirty dishes when you leave.

So, they're not exactly sitting around. Dealing with people all day is more challenging than writing some code.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Worse than waiters...The home health Aids come under daycare category and hence their employers are not bound by labor laws. They are classified as Home "Helpers" and "Caregivers" and get paid $2-3/hr.

by gone Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:50 pm

True. It's sad. I guess that's why our parents drilled the importance of a good education into our heads and made so many sacrifices so we could get a world-class education.

by b_A Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:59 pm

mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.

The policymakers obviously missed a trick by not taking inputs from people with advanced degrees like you.
They should stop the H1-B program for programmers and start importing people with skills like waiting tables , delivering pizzas , dealing with entitled people etc. Why do you need coders from other countries when the skills can be simply self taught ?

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:47 pm

On minimum wage

by SomeProfile Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:54 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:PS: I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the old retarded petra troll to show up. not long, it looks like. it's a quick slide into a hissy fit and the 100th quitting from here on.

I was wondering who the fuck this mainstreet person was when I read the original post. Reading subsequent posts made me suspect the same thing. So, now she's done with the Hung Wei Lows of the world and managed to trap some poor doctor bakra to live off of?

by SomeProfile Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:57 am

mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.

You seem like a very smart person. Do you have any self-taught skills that are worth tipping for? Please do tell us.

by SomeProfile Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:00 am

b_A wrote:
mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.
The policymakers obviously missed a trick by not taking inputs from people with advanced degrees like you.
They should stop the H1-B program for programmers and start importing people with skills like waiting tables , delivering pizzas , dealing with entitled people etc. Why do you need coders from other countries when the skills can be simply self taught ?

I am imagining an America where all the high-school dropouts, college dropouts, English and arts graduates like OP become self-taught coders working for minimum wage (or less with tips!) so that no foreign professionals be imported. Wonder how the tips would be calculated for such homegrown self-taught genius coders.

by Kris Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:07 am

SomeProfile wrote:
b_A wrote:
mainstreet wrote:Hey! I didn't say waiting tables required any advanced degrees (for that matter, coding can be self-taught too). I said it can't be easy dealing with hyper-critical, overly demanding, entitled people like you all day long! I'd rather work all day with a computer than work with you :-)

P.S. I never said I had two advanced degrees. I have one undergraduate and one graduate degree.
The policymakers obviously missed a trick by not taking inputs from people with advanced degrees like you.
They should stop the H1-B program for programmers and start importing people with skills like waiting tables , delivering pizzas , dealing with entitled people etc. Why do you need coders from other countries when the skills can be simply self taught ?
I am imagining an America where all the high-school dropouts, college dropouts, English and arts graduates like OP become self-taught coders working for minimum wage (or less with tips!) so that no foreign professionals be imported. Wonder how the tips would be calculated for such homegrown self-taught genius coders.

>>>>They could always make that quick phone call to Bangalore, where all those foreigners live wasting their time on irrelevant stuff like arithmetic. Smile

by b_A Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:56 am

SomeProfile wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:PS: I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the old retarded petra troll to show up. not long, it looks like. it's a quick slide into a hissy fit and the 100th quitting from here on.
I was wondering who the fuck this mainstreet person was when I read the original post. Reading subsequent posts made me suspect the same thing. So, now she's done with the Hung Wei Lows of the world and managed to trap some poor doctor bakra to live off of?

That is if you actually believe the troll. Looking at the detailed job description , my guess would be that either she is a waitress herself or she is married to a waiter. That also explains the outrage at low tipping practices.

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