Re: Patnaik for PM!!!

by Guest Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:45 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
b_A wrote:
Rashmun wrote:CBN and YSR were from Rayalaseema and not Seemandhra.
Rashmun ,
Most of the normal people don't indulge in discussions about which they have no clue.
Then , there are the internet "pundits" who butt-in any discussion that they find.
So to which category Rashmunullah belongs to?

Didn't you put PP, Max, Merlot and me in a single category. Btw you call Merlot and me as Mullahs or Maulanas but you never call Max Maxullah or PP PPullah. Why is that ?

by confuzzled dude Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:49 pm

Idéfix wrote:Building a dam takes a lot more work than reassigning employees. Twenty five years is plenty of time to reassign employees who were illegally hired, and hire new ones in their place. The reason neither CBN nor YSR did it is that they did not want to upset the AP NGOs association, and they didn't think Telangana NGOs will make a big stink if they don't implement the 1986 GO fully.

Like I said, If I'm not mistaken, Srikrishna commission dispelled some of those. In anycase, it is a trivial issue to me (& my generation) because I could count the number of my friends/classmates/relatives that are in public sector, on my fingers tips; this includes the entire spectrum of those with advanced degrees to highschool dropouts. I'm speaking from present/future persepective not hung up on the issues from 1956 or 1969. Yes, we can argue about semantics all day long but won't take us anywhere.

by truthbetold Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:51 pm

Uppili,
Rashmun was constructive in this thread. He asked questions to clarify and represented diggy's view point. You guys can carry on other threads.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:41 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:Building a dam takes a lot more work than reassigning employees. Twenty five years is plenty of time to reassign employees who were illegally hired, and hire new ones in their place. The reason neither CBN nor YSR did it is that they did not want to upset the AP NGOs association, and they didn't think Telangana NGOs will make a big stink if they don't implement the 1986 GO fully.
Like I said, If I'm not mistaken, Srikrishna commission dispelled some of those. In anycase, it is a trivial issue to me (& my generation) because I could count the number of my friends/classmates/relatives that are in public sector, on my fingers tips; this includes the entire spectrum of those with advanced degrees to highschool dropouts. I'm speaking from present/future persepective not hung up on the issues from 1956 or 1969. Yes, we can argue about semantics all day long but won't take us anywhere.

The point is that it is easy for SA people to call it a trivial issue, because their side benefits from the status quo to the detriment of Telangana. When the separatists made a big deal of a small matter for years, the best way to fight that would have been to take the steps needed to remove that small issue. The easier the fix is, the more blame that YSR and CBN should share for not doing the right thing for so long. Saying "oh, it's a small thing, so it's no big deal if we don't fix the problem while my side benefits at your expense" doesn't help.

by confuzzled dude Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:50 pm

Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:Building a dam takes a lot more work than reassigning employees. Twenty five years is plenty of time to reassign employees who were illegally hired, and hire new ones in their place. The reason neither CBN nor YSR did it is that they did not want to upset the AP NGOs association, and they didn't think Telangana NGOs will make a big stink if they don't implement the 1986 GO fully.
Like I said, If I'm not mistaken, Srikrishna commission dispelled some of those. In anycase, it is a trivial issue to me (& my generation) because I could count the number of my friends/classmates/relatives that are in public sector, on my fingers tips; this includes the entire spectrum of those with advanced degrees to highschool dropouts. I'm speaking from present/future persepective not hung up on the issues from 1956 or 1969. Yes, we can argue about semantics all day long but won't take us anywhere.
The point is that it is easy for SA people to call it a trivial issue, because their side benefits from the status quo to the detriment of Telangana. When the separatists made a big deal of a small matter for years, the best way to fight that would have been to take the steps needed to remove that small issue. The easier the fix is, the more blame that YSR and CBN should share for not doing the right thing for so long. Saying "oh, it's a small thing, so it's no big deal if we don't fix the problem while my side benefits at your expense" doesn't help.

Wrong. It is trivial issue, actually non-issue to the citiznes of A.P of my generation and your generation doesn't matter what region they belong to. We can't dwell on this in 2013, as it is completely irrelevant to present days needs.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:51 pm

Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:Building a dam takes a lot more work than reassigning employees. Twenty five years is plenty of time to reassign employees who were illegally hired, and hire new ones in their place. The reason neither CBN nor YSR did it is that they did not want to upset the AP NGOs association, and they didn't think Telangana NGOs will make a big stink if they don't implement the 1986 GO fully.
Like I said, If I'm not mistaken, Srikrishna commission dispelled some of those. In anycase, it is a trivial issue to me (& my generation) because I could count the number of my friends/classmates/relatives that are in public sector, on my fingers tips; this includes the entire spectrum of those with advanced degrees to highschool dropouts. I'm speaking from present/future persepective not hung up on the issues from 1956 or 1969. Yes, we can argue about semantics all day long but won't take us anywhere.
The point is that it is easy for SA people to call it a trivial issue, because their side benefits from the status quo to the detriment of Telangana. When the separatists made a big deal of a small matter for years, the best way to fight that would have been to take the steps needed to remove that small issue. The easier the fix is, the more blame that YSR and CBN should share for not doing the right thing for so long. Saying "oh, it's a small thing, so it's no big deal if we don't fix the problem while my side benefits at your expense" doesn't help.

I agree.... the Telengana region has been historically "exploited" by the rich people of Seemandhra. That is an undeniable fact. The only place where they invested was in Hyderabad and the rich benefited with some secondary benefits to the Telengans. This is much like the whites owning/running a casino on the Indian land with the reservation indians working for minimum wage.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:52 pm

truthbetold wrote:Idefix,
I personally think t area water is not well exploited. So I talked to a retirex chief engineer about this issue.
The andhra area had canals from British times. Delta agri farming was more irrigation oriented. T area in earlier days was more rain dependent "metta ".
So the early projects were demanded by the farmers of deltas of Krishna and godavari.
One of the peculiarities of t area is that rivers are lower than most agricultural areas requiring lift irrigation. Cost of major lift irrigation was high and some of the technology available today was not there in 60s and 70s.
Ysr did propose several hydro projects when money and technology became available.

Now we both know that reality is not that innocent. Delta farmer power probably played a role.
T noise did force many of the latest actions. In between sri ram sagar became a reality and Karim nagar prospered.
Again some real and some perceived grievence allowed the kcr types to create a t movement.
Seemandhra leaders were cocksure of their influence with Congress highcommand and did not raise a finger to diffuse t concerns.

I agree with your points. Delta farmers had a headstart, and they used their influence to get more. The very fact that bifurcation threatens water access for the coast means that under the status quo, the coast is getting more water than it can hope for if Telangana were separate all along. The original SRC recommended a separate state for Telangana. Looking at the recent agitation, it looks like the coastal Andhra people have taken for granted that extra access to water which they enjoyed only because Telangana was part of the state. Congress leaders from Seemandhra assumed High Command would "do the right thing" (i.e. listen to them and protect their interests) instead of working with Telangana leaders to resolve the issue. And CBN and others took the easy way out of leaving the problem to Congress -- he said yes to bifurcation assuming Congress High Command would do the dirty work of saying no.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:56 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:Building a dam takes a lot more work than reassigning employees. Twenty five years is plenty of time to reassign employees who were illegally hired, and hire new ones in their place. The reason neither CBN nor YSR did it is that they did not want to upset the AP NGOs association, and they didn't think Telangana NGOs will make a big stink if they don't implement the 1986 GO fully.
Like I said, If I'm not mistaken, Srikrishna commission dispelled some of those. In anycase, it is a trivial issue to me (& my generation) because I could count the number of my friends/classmates/relatives that are in public sector, on my fingers tips; this includes the entire spectrum of those with advanced degrees to highschool dropouts. I'm speaking from present/future persepective not hung up on the issues from 1956 or 1969. Yes, we can argue about semantics all day long but won't take us anywhere.
The point is that it is easy for SA people to call it a trivial issue, because their side benefits from the status quo to the detriment of Telangana. When the separatists made a big deal of a small matter for years, the best way to fight that would have been to take the steps needed to remove that small issue. The easier the fix is, the more blame that YSR and CBN should share for not doing the right thing for so long. Saying "oh, it's a small thing, so it's no big deal if we don't fix the problem while my side benefits at your expense" doesn't help.
Wrong. It is trivial issue, actually non-issue to the citiznes of A.P of my generation and your generation doesn't matter what region they belong to. We can't dwell on this in 2013, as it is completely irrelevant to present days needs.

I disagree with you on this. It may not be important to you and me living abroad, with most friends in the private sector. But if this was a non-issue to the citizens of AP, KCR would not have been able to use this issue to divide people so effectively. The two groups that were at the forefront of the agitation on the Telangana side were: NGOs and university students. Both groups care about this issue; particularly the Telangana NGOs union. University students have been told that AndhrOLLu took their jobs in the past, and with a separate state, they will magically have secure, well-paid government jobs where they don't have to exert themselves.

by confuzzled dude Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:20 pm

Idéfix wrote:I disagree with you on this. It may not be important to you and me living abroad, with most friends in the private sector. But if this was a non-issue to the citizens of AP, KCR would not have been able to use this issue to divide people so effectively. The two groups that were at the forefront of the agitation on the Telangana side were: NGOs and university students. Both groups care about this issue; particularly the Telangana NGOs union. University students have been told that AndhrOLLu took their jobs in the past, and with a separate state, they will magically have secure, well-paid government jobs where they don't have to exert themselves.

Majority of frineds/relatives I was referring to live in Hyderabad and work in private sector. There are as many highschool dropouts as the ones with advanced degrees somehow those high dropouts manage to find jobs as factory workers and other low paying jobs and survive.

So.. SJAC is worried that about 10-20k folks that are illegally working in Hyd zone will be forced to move SA zones thus will take over their jobs.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:26 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:So.. SJAC is worried that about 10-20k folks that are illegally working in Hyd zone will be forced to move SA zones thus will take over their jobs.

I doubt that. But I do think CBN and YSR were worried about upsetting AP NGOs union back when they were in power.

by confuzzled dude Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:37 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I agree.... the Telengana region has been historically "exploited" by the rich people of Seemandhra. That is an undeniable fact. The only place where they invested was in Hyderabad and the rich benefited with some secondary benefits to the Telengans. This is much like the whites owning/running a casino on the Indian land with the reservation indians working for minimum wage.

:)Rich Seemandhra folks would have exploited Rayalaseema & Tamil folks had Chittor made state capital. I don't think those investors discriminate one over the other.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:57 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I agree.... the Telengana region has been historically "exploited" by the rich people of Seemandhra. That is an undeniable fact. The only place where they invested was in Hyderabad and the rich benefited with some secondary benefits to the Telengans. This is much like the whites owning/running a casino on the Indian land with the reservation indians working for minimum wage.
:)Rich Seemandhra folks would have exploited Rayalaseema & Tamil folks had Chittor made state capital. I don't think those investors discriminate one over the other.

I always thought Madras should not have been the TN Capital. But, now I think it was a good move. Otherwise Andhrans would have taken over Madras and made it their readymade capital.

I guess that is one reason why states make maga cities on the border as their capital. Bangalore, Chandigarh, Bombay, Calcutta, Trivandrum, etc.

by confuzzled dude Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:03 am

Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So.. SJAC is worried that about 10-20k folks that are illegally working in Hyd zone will be forced to move SA zones thus will take over their jobs.
I doubt that. But I do think CBN and YSR were worried about upsetting AP NGOs union back when they were in power.

Idefix, This may be of interest to you. Interview with AP NGO president Ashok Babu, he did provide some clarification about GO 610.

http://www.andhrajyothy.com/node/5418

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:23 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:So.. SJAC is worried that about 10-20k folks that are illegally working in Hyd zone will be forced to move SA zones thus will take over their jobs.
I doubt that. But I do think CBN and YSR were worried about upsetting AP NGOs union back when they were in power.
Idefix, This may be of interest to you. Interview with AP NGO president Ashok Babu, he did provide some clarification about GO 610.

http://www.andhrajyothy.com/node/5418

Looks like Ashok Babu isn't all that optimistic.

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