The Talwars guilty of murdering daughter, domestic help

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:05 pm

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/nupur-rajesh-talwar-guilty-of-murdering-daughter-aarushi-domestic-help/299124?curl=1385406148

by Rishi Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:13 pm

>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

by garam_kuta Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:19 pm

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:22 pm

Rishi wrote:>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

Yes, especially if you have children, don't leave them unattended around the servant/cook.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:37 pm

nenu wrote:
Rishi wrote:>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

Yes, especially if you have children, don't leave them unattended around the servant/cook.

That's the moral of the story here? Not, don't slit your daughter's throat if you find her doing the domestic help?

The other thing that is deeply disturbing is that all the news reports talk only of the daughter's murder. The domestic help's name is hardly even mentioned.

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:
nenu wrote:
Rishi wrote:>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

Yes, especially if you have children, don't leave them unattended around the servant/cook.
That's the moral of the story here? Not, don't slit your daughter's throat if you find her doing the domestic help?

The other thing that is deeply disturbing is that all the news reports talk only of the daughter's murder. The domestic help's name is hardly even mentioned.

I had logged in just to post this. you beat me to it. who you?

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Apparently the case against the parents is very weak based on suggestions by police. There doesn't appear to be even a strong circumstantial case. When I heard about this, I thought the help was a young teen like the daughter too. Turns out this guy is some 45 years old. It is difficult to imagine a young girl willingly messing around with a middle aged guy. It doesn't sound very convincing at all.

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:56 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:Apparently the case against the parents is very weak based on suggestions by police. There doesn't appear to be even a strong circumstantial case. When I heard about this, I thought the help was a young teen like the daughter too. Turns out this guy is some 45 years old. It is difficult to imagine a young girl willingly messing around with a middle aged guy. It doesn't sound very convincing at all.

if i remember reading some other version, she wasn't messing with him. he was actually her supporter, and was silenced simply for this reason, or maybe that he witnessed her murder.

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:01 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:
nenu wrote:
Rishi wrote:>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

Yes, especially if you have children, don't leave them unattended around the servant/cook.
That's the moral of the story here? Not, don't slit your daughter's throat if you find her doing the domestic help?

The other thing that is deeply disturbing is that all the news reports talk only of the daughter's murder. The domestic help's name is hardly even mentioned.

I didn't say that's the moral of the story. I was generally talking about not having children unattended around domestic helps.
If the parents really killed their daughter, then that is an extreme case of horrible parenting. I don't think many parents in this world would do that to their progeny. If there's a moral for others to learn from this story, then 'don't slit your daughter's throat if you find her doing the domestic help coz you'll be caught and convicted ultimately' is not the one.

The domestic help was a pedophile who was sexually abusing the girl. He doesn't command much sympathy eventhough he's been murdered. Ppl are shocked by the girl's murder and all the news reports talking abt her murder is because 1. she's an innocent victim here 2. very rarely do parents murder their children.

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:06 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:Apparently the case against the parents is very weak based on suggestions by police. There doesn't appear to be even a strong circumstantial case. When I heard about this, I thought the help was a young teen like the daughter too. Turns out this guy is some 45 years old. It is difficult to imagine a young girl willingly messing around with a middle aged guy. It doesn't sound very convincing at all.

If there's a murder in your house
1. you don't clean up the whole place before calling the police.
2. You won't be in a rush to burn the body to ashes so no further autopsies are possible.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:07 pm

I didn't know the help was an older man. I thought he was the same age as her or a bit older. This is a weird case.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:08 pm

nenu wrote:
Caxinath Parrikar wrote:Apparently the case against the parents is very weak based on suggestions by police. There doesn't appear to be even a strong circumstantial case. When I heard about this, I thought the help was a young teen like the daughter too. Turns out this guy is some 45 years old. It is difficult to imagine a young girl willingly messing around with a middle aged guy. It doesn't sound very convincing at all.
If there's a murder in your house
1. you don't clean up the whole place before calling the police.
2. You won't be in a rush to burn the body to ashes so no further autopsies are possible.

Is there a more detailed version of the case with all the evidence the police gathered as originally reported?

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:13 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:
nenu wrote:
Caxinath Parrikar wrote:Apparently the case against the parents is very weak based on suggestions by police. There doesn't appear to be even a strong circumstantial case. When I heard about this, I thought the help was a young teen like the daughter too. Turns out this guy is some 45 years old. It is difficult to imagine a young girl willingly messing around with a middle aged guy. It doesn't sound very convincing at all.
If there's a murder in your house
1. you don't clean up the whole place before calling the police.
2. You won't be in a rush to burn the body to ashes so no further autopsies are possible.
Is there a more detailed version of the case with all the evidence the police gathered as originally reported?

Wiki to the rescue, if you have the patience to read it all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noida_double_murder_case

by Guest Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:17 pm

not sure what to make of this side story. dedication of the maid to finish her daily chores:

Meanwhile, Bharti returned to the outermost gate: she pushed it, and it opened without the key. She found that the middle door was latched, but not locked. She opened the latch and walked in.^[18] When she entered the apartment, she saw Rajesh and Nupur crying. Nupur asked her to come inside Aarushi's room. Bharti stood at the entrance of the room, as Nupur walked inside. Aarushi's body lay on her bed; it was covered with a flannel blanket. Nupur pulled the blanket, and Bharti saw that Aarushi's throat was slit. Both the parents blamed Hemraj for Aarushi's murder in front of the maid. Bharti walked out of the apartment to inform the neighbours. She returned to the house and asked the Talwars if they wanted her to do the daily household chores. When they said "No", she moved on to work in other households

by southindian Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:42 pm

nenu wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/nupur-rajesh-talwar-guilty-of-murdering-daughter-aarushi-domestic-help/299124?curl=1385406148

Off course the Talwars killed daughter and domestic help, no Iffs no Buts. India decided this case and verdict a long time ago.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:39 pm

This is a gripping whodunit. The more I read about the case the less convinced I am about the parents' guilt.

by b_A Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:58 pm

Another theory that I read according to Madhu Kishwar or someone is that , the four or five nepali servants in the neighborhood gathered in Talwar's house to play cards and one of them might have tried to molest the daughter and the servant who objected to it, was killed. And the daughter was killed, because she witnessed the murder.
Based on people hearing some nepali music around that time.

by Guest Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:35 am

this verdict will be set aside by the allahabad high court on appeal. in appeals there is no re-trial (a trial is only once); only points of law are examined.

by Guest Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:53 am

26 reasons the judge offered to sentence the duo:

http://m.newshunt.com/Deccan+Herald/Top+Stories/25484120

not a single clinching evidence. it seems the law is no longer blind and nor are you innocent till proven guilty. (i am not denying the duo may have murdered the two.)

by FluteHolder Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:10 pm

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/aarushi-talwar-in-her-own-words/299121?hp

Still not able to believe that parents would kill their own/only daughter who they got after 5 years of IVF treatment.

But all the evidences are against them in this murder.. It is a tragedy for everyone involved.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:16 pm

It's shocking that they were able to win a conviction of such a botched investigation. I don't know if the Talwars are guilty, but they were convicted on literally no evidence. If this is the state of affairs for a private citizen in India, anybody's life could be upended at any time if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is not rule of law, this is a banana republic. Very scary.

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:17 pm

FluteHolder wrote:
But all the evidences are against them in this murder..

Like what?

by FluteHolder Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:24 pm

Caxinath Parrikar wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:
But all the evidences are against them in this murder..
Like what?

Read the 26 point judge's reasons. First, why they cover up the crime scene and burn the body so quickly before the full investigation or autopsy was done. Why/who would be on internet surfing while their daughter's dead body in next room? Still hard to say. Ofcourse In India, if you have money/power you could easily sway judgment to your side or prolong the case...

by Tejpal Singh Iyer Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:05 pm

None of it sounds the least bit convincing. Isn't it Hindu custom to cremate quickly?

by Guest Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:41 pm

I am done.

1) Can't claim to be an expert, going by gut feeling. I am 99% convinced Talwars didn't do it. Just can't place a motive unless they have a deep dark other life going on. Objectionable position, jealousy, threatened, really? A middle aged, educated, urban middle class man would not have other ways of raising his only child? Why kill when a slap and kicking out the servant can work equally effectively. Left 1% doubt just in case there was a chance that the dad himself abused the girl, and she had had it, and the servant intervened. Doesn't look like it so far, and really really sad if that's the case.

2) Most likely those other 3 servants did it, after Hemraj let them in. Maybe he did that usually. Gross lapse of judgement there by everyone. Why didn't anyone see them coming in, going out? Maybe coz they could have used the common terrace.

3) No matter who did it, there just cannot be a trial after such a botched first investigation. Except a confession, not sure what can be used for a conviction.

4) I would never ever live in an apartment (even if I didn't know of this case), in which there are three frikking layers of doors to the apartment, but anyone can get in through the servant's quarter. If I had lived in such a setup, I would have bolted servant's room's entry into the house, and made him come and go from the main door. Handing over all the keys to him, you out of your mind?

5) Pretty much anything that's brought up in the case against the Talwars can be answered. How did the key to her room get out from parent's rooms? Maybe Arushi took it herself as she locked herself house of the room, who knows. Maybe that's how she walked into whatever was going on with her killers. Maybe they subdued her enough to not scream.

6) The only parental fault I can think of is, both too busy with careers, and had to rely heavily on outside live-in help.

7) UP really really is a terrible state to live in. First, inefficient police. Then, responsible senior police people openly calling them all as characterless in press conference. WTH?

by b_A Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:I am done.

1) Can't claim to be an expert, going by gut feeling. I am 99% convinced Talwars didn't do it. Just can't place a motive unless they have a deep dark other life going on. Objectionable position, jealousy, threatened, really? A middle aged, educated, urban middle class man would not have other ways of raising his only child? Why kill when a slap and kicking out the servant can work equally effectively. Left 1% doubt just in case there was a chance that the dad himself abused the girl, and she had had it, and the servant intervened. Doesn't look like it so far, and really really sad if that's the case.

2) Most likely those other 3 servants did it, after Hemraj let them in. Maybe he did that usually. Gross lapse of judgement there by everyone. Why didn't anyone see them coming in, going out? Maybe coz they could have used the common terrace.

3) No matter who did it, there just cannot be a trial after such a botched first investigation. Except a confession, not sure what can be used for a conviction.

4) I would never ever live in an apartment (even if I didn't know of this case), in which there are three frikking layers of doors to the apartment, but anyone can get in through the servant's quarter. If I had lived in such a setup, I would have bolted servant's room's entry into the house, and made him come and go from the main door. Handing over all the keys to him, you out of your mind?

5) Pretty much anything that's brought up in the case against the Talwars can be answered. How did the key to her room get out from parent's rooms? Maybe Arushi took it herself as she locked herself house of the room, who knows. Maybe that's how she walked into whatever was going on with her killers. Maybe they subdued her enough to not scream.

6) The only parental fault I can think of is, both too busy with careers, and had to rely heavily on outside live-in help.

7) UP really really is a terrible state to live in. First, inefficient police. Then, responsible senior police people openly calling them all as characterless in press conference. WTH?

There is another issue here. Even if we assume that the parents are guilty , it is probably only one parent that did it.
The other parent is at worst can be charged with abetting the crime or destroying evidence. Then , how can you send them both to prison for life with same sentence for both killing and tampering with evidence? Without even knowing who did what ?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:17 am

Rishi wrote:>>> A simple solution to these kinds of problems.

Do not hire any servant or a cook.

or atleast make sure they're brahmin from same subcaste

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