Re: Max

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm

a retired IFS officer who participated in a TV debate posed an interesting question. He said he personally knows of wives of US officials employed in the US embassy and consulates in India to be working as teachers in schools or elsewhere without valid work visas. Should they all be picked up and locked up? If you say yes they should be, his counter is that you would be violating centuries of the practice of diplomatic etiquette and hence in such cases you can't just go by strict legalities.

Please stop making an ass of yourself. enough is enough.

by Rishi Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Rashmun wrote:a retired IFS officer who participated in a TV debate posed an interesting question. He said he personally knows of wives of US officials employed in the US embassy and consulates in India to be working as teachers in schools or elsewhere without valid work visas. Should they all be picked up and locked up? If you say yes they should be, his counter is that you would be violating centuries of the practice of diplomatic etiquette and hence in such cases you can't just go by strict legalities.

Please stop making an ass of yourself. enough is enough.

>>>A few years ago, they found a white American who had come to India on a tourist visa going around proselytizing people. They deported him. He violated the terms of the visa. He should have applied for a missionary visa if he wanted to convert.

by Kris Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:04 pm

Rashmun wrote:a retired IFS officer who participated in a TV debate posed an interesting question. He said he personally knows of wives of US officials employed in the US embassy and consulates in India to be working as teachers in schools or elsewhere without valid work visas. Should they all be picked up and locked up? If you say yes they should be, his counter is that you would be violating centuries of the practice of diplomatic etiquette and hence in such cases you can't just go by strict legalities.

Please stop making an ass of yourself. enough is enough.

>> Much of diplomatic protocol rests on this 'don't ask, don't tell' approach. The reason that the US will make conciliatory gestures is precisely to avoid opening up the 'reciprocity' can of worms. After all, its own guys on the field are not exactly saints.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:08 pm

they can make conciliatory gestures, but it will be disappointing if they exact some sort of political revenge on bharara. my overall estimation of the guy is that he is one of the good guys. good for NYC and will be good for NY should he seek elective office.

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:a retired IFS officer who participated in a TV debate posed an interesting question. He said he personally knows of wives of US officials employed in the US embassy and consulates in India to be working as teachers in schools or elsewhere without valid work visas. Should they all be picked up and locked up? If you say yes they should be, his counter is that you would be violating centuries of the practice of diplomatic etiquette and hence in such cases you can't just go by strict legalities.

Please stop making an ass of yourself. enough is enough.
>> Much of diplomatic protocol rests on this 'don't ask, don't tell' approach. The reason that the US will make conciliatory gestures is precisely to avoid opening up the 'reciprocity' can of worms. After all, its own guys on the field are not exactly saints.

US diplomats in India must be cursing Preet Bharara.

-----

NEW DELHI: US diplomats and their families in India will not be able to avail special treatment at airports from Thursday night when the deadline expires for surrendering their special passes, as part of government's retaliatory action against the treatment meted out to diplomat Devyani Khobragade in New York.

India on Tuesday had taken a slew of retaliatory steps to strip US diplomats and their families of privileges including withdrawing all airport passes and stopping import clearances for the US embassy, strongly denouncing the arrest and strip searching of Khobragade, India's deputy consul general in New York.

The government had asked the US consular diplomats and their families to surrender airports passes by Thrusday night.

The government had also asked the US embassy to provide a list of all Indian nationals working with its consulates, including domestic servants, by December 23.

The government has also sought copies of their contracts, bank accounts, salaries and PAN numbers.

It has also stopped all import clearances including for liquor for the US embassy. The traffic barricades near the US embassy on Nyaya Marg here were also removed.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:15 pm

rashmun -- being the nationalist that you are, i fully understand your reaction. but your failure to even acknowledge this woman's wrongdoing is what is sad. is national pride so powerful an emotion that it can completely swamp your thinking to the point of an acknowledgment of corruption? all your posts have been -- the US did that, bharara did this, but nary a whisper about the actual alleged wrongdoing.

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun -- being the nationalist that you are, i fully understand your reaction. but your failure to even acknowledge this woman's wrongdoing is what is sad. is national pride so powerful an emotion that it can completely swamp your thinking to the point of an acknowledgment of corruption? all your posts have been -- the US did that, bharara did this, but nary a whisper about the actual alleged wrongdoing.

Should all Indian diplomats in the US be arrested together with all diplomats of developing countries? Retired Indian diplomats who have appeared on TV shows have all said that they were doing what Devyani was doing.

by Kris Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:33 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they can make conciliatory gestures, but it will be disappointing if they exact some sort of political revenge on bharara. my overall estimation of the guy is that he is one of the good guys. good for NYC and will be good for NY should he seek elective office.

>>> I think Bharara is a political animal who is already playing his cards, by going to the media. I am also sure he has enough Godfathers and a critical mass in terms of public support already. So, I can't see him falling on sword in this case. At worst, it may be a slap on the wrist. I also would like to see him vetted out more with regard to his penchant for going after a particular ethnic subset.

by smArtha Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:46 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they can make conciliatory gestures, but it will be disappointing if they exact some sort of political revenge on bharara. my overall estimation of the guy is that he is one of the good guys. good for NYC and will be good for NY should he seek elective office.
>>> I think Bharara is a political animal who is already playing his cards, by going to the media. I am also sure he has enough Godfathers and a critical mass in terms of public support already. So, I can't see him falling on sword in this case. At worst, it may be a slap on the wrist. I also would like to see him vetted out more with regard to his penchant for going after a particular ethnic subset.

True. The worst of this episode may be reserved for the maid and her family, if all other parties make adjustments to bail out each other and none to back/care for them in a few months from now. Hope they have extended family/support system to lean on here in US. And if India insists that the family be deported to face the law in India then too bad but it will be end of story for them.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:49 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they can make conciliatory gestures, but it will be disappointing if they exact some sort of political revenge on bharara. my overall estimation of the guy is that he is one of the good guys. good for NYC and will be good for NY should he seek elective office.

Why not ? If modi can be denied visa before even he applied, what is wrong in telling Barara - keep out or else...

Do you think Americans, Russians, and others dont take revenge against those who acted against their interests?

Welcome to the basic human response.

by confuzzled dude Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:50 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they can make conciliatory gestures, but it will be disappointing if they exact some sort of political revenge on bharara. my overall estimation of the guy is that he is one of the good guys. good for NYC and will be good for NY should he seek elective office.
>>> I think Bharara is a political animal who is already playing his cards, by going to the media. I am also sure he has enough Godfathers and a critical mass in terms of public support already. So, I can't see him falling on sword in this case. At worst, it may be a slap on the wrist. I also would like to see him vetted out more with regard to his penchant for going after a particular ethnic subset.

He must be pinching himself, unable to believe his luck.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun -- being the nationalist that you are, i fully understand your reaction. but your failure to even acknowledge this woman's wrongdoing is what is sad. is national pride so powerful an emotion that it can completely swamp your thinking to the point of an acknowledgment of corruption? all your posts have been -- the US did that, bharara did this, but nary a whisper about the actual alleged wrongdoing.

If you are willing to look over the Congress Corruption for the sake of "Your" Psuedo-secularism, then what is wrong with the priorities of Maulana Rashmunullah - despite he being a paki Chamcha..

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:57 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun -- being the nationalist that you are, i fully understand your reaction. but your failure to even acknowledge this woman's wrongdoing is what is sad. is national pride so powerful an emotion that it can completely swamp your thinking to the point of an acknowledgment of corruption? all your posts have been -- the US did that, bharara did this, but nary a whisper about the actual alleged wrongdoing.

If you are willing to look over the Congress Corruption for the sake of "Your" Psuedo-secularism, then what is wrong with the priorities of Maulana Rashmunullah - despite he being a paki Chamcha..

Back to farting loudly publicly, Poopili ?

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:05 pm

India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

by confuzzled dude Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:21 pm

goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:44 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

by confuzzled dude Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:49 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:50 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

in one of arnab goswami's recent panel discussions he gave some interesting examples. one of them was of a jordanian lady who had been caught shoplifting in the US and who subsequently claimed diplomatic immunity. Within 24 hours she was on her way to Jordan. Is India to be treated worse than even Jordan?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:56 pm

Human Law #1:

Humans are inherently biased and discriminatory.

Human Law #2: Humans are hypocrites what they expect from others are not applicable to themselves.

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:09 pm

And to know the minimum wage for tipped employees , see here:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:19 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:23 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

according to arnab goswami, there was another case in which a US contractor had killed a top romanian musician in romania. the romanians wanted to try the contractor in court but he was quietly and quickly extradited. this shit shoveling needs to stop now.

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:29 pm

Rashmun wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

according to arnab goswami, there was another case in which a US contractor had killed a top romanian musician in romania. the romanians wanted to try the contractor in court but he was quietly and quickly extradited. this shit shoveling needs to stop now.

I have zero respect for Arnab Goswami who just hogs the TV screen for his own tirade. I don't know all the facts about this case. Without quoting him, let me know if you have all the details for me to consider an appropriate response.

by Guest Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:36 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

according to arnab goswami, there was another case in which a US contractor had killed a top romanian musician in romania. the romanians wanted to try the contractor in court but he was quietly and quickly extradited. this shit shoveling needs to stop now.

I have zero respect for Arnab Goswami who just hogs the TV screen for his own tirade. I don't know all the facts about this case. Without quoting him, let me know if you have all the details for me to consider an appropriate response.

http://www.newsweek.com/thorn-bushs-side-85793

by confuzzled dude Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:54 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:India asking for dismissal of all charges against Devyani is utter nonsense and deliberately illegal. She has broken the law and has to face the consequences just like any ordinary citizen. The media binging on anti-American feeding frenzy side by side with the corrupt politicians is barf-inducing. Yuck.

I hope the feeling was same when President Obama demanded Raymond Allen Davis's release

Pakistan had every reason to prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of Obama's request for release. Instead it chose to release him under Islamic Sharia law that allowed murder charges to be dismissed if compensatory payments were made to the families of the deceased. What is India trying to do? Assert that Devyani did nothing wrong and demand apologies from the U.S. for not only arresting her but also in the manner she was arrested?

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

We can come up with 100 justifications but the operative word used was "diplomatic immunity", so why are we saying that India's modus operandi is puke-inducing but US's wasn't. There were more examples like this for the US.

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:02 pm

Rashmun wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

My point was, was that move by reckless Obama puke-inducing or not?

Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

according to arnab goswami, there was another case in which a US contractor had killed a top romanian musician in romania. the romanians wanted to try the contractor in court but he was quietly and quickly extradited. this shit shoveling needs to stop now.

I have zero respect for Arnab Goswami who just hogs the TV screen for his own tirade. I don't know all the facts about this case. Without quoting him, let me know if you have all the details for me to consider an appropriate response.

http://www.newsweek.com/thorn-bushs-side-85793

I feel bad for the Peter family in not being adequately compensated for the loss of life. Thanks for the link.

by smArtha Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:05 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

And precisely this is what the Indian MEA is working towards. To have the US submit to the 'Indian Reciprocity Law' :-). So what is your concern then?!!

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:12 pm

smArtha wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
Obama's justification was his fight against terrorism and had CIA operatives working in Lahore to find Osama Bin Laden. Later on it did come to light that Pakistan did harbor Osama. And the U.S. did submit to the Islamic Law of Pakistan in getting the matter resolved.

And precisely this is what the Indian MEA is working towards. To have the US submit to the 'Indian Reciprocity Law' :-). So what is your concern then?!!

While that incident happened in Pakistan, its laws did apply. This incident happened in American soil so the U.S. law should be applied.

by smArtha Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:26 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
While that incident happened in Pakistan, its laws did apply. This incident happened in American soil so the U.S. law should be applied.

A convenient Law that provides 'legal' escape for the culprit was applied. And the MEA is working with the State Department to find such convenient Law.

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:36 pm

smArtha wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
While that incident happened in Pakistan, its laws did apply. This incident happened in American soil so the U.S. law should be applied.

A convenient Law that provides 'legal' escape for the culprit was applied. And the MEA is working with the State Department to find such convenient Law.

I don't know what your point is. Are you suggesting that, since it is the common practice of Indian diplomats to lie in visa applications, reciprocally India would allow American diplomats to lie in their visas? What is the reciprocity you are alluding to?

by goodcitizn Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:51 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
We can come up with 100 justifications but the operative word used was "diplomatic immunity", so why are we saying that India's modus operandi is puke-inducing but US's wasn't. There were more examples like this for the US.

CD: I was given to believe that she didn't have diplomatic status when she was arrested.

by confuzzled dude Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:45 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
We can come up with 100 justifications but the operative word used was "diplomatic immunity", so why are we saying that India's modus operandi is puke-inducing but US's wasn't. There were more examples like this for the US.
CD: I was given to believe that she didn't have diplomatic status when she was arrested.

Apparently, This CIA agent is no diplomat

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