another way to look at it...

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:04 pm

...since their employees are some of the biggest users of food stamp programs, MCD and WMT are two of the biggest welfare queens in the US. their entire existence is based on government handouts.

by truthbetold Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:24 pm

Max
what are you implying?
mcd and wmt are guilty because they are big?
are they underpaying their employees compared to similar jobs elsewhere?
or they should pay more because of their corporate size and status?
would they not pay more if are worried about talent retention?
Cotsco pays 11:50 or more to get the type of people it wants.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:32 pm

i am not implying, i am actually saying that MCD and WMT are welfare queens.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:38 pm

in other words i am saying if the food stamp business didn't exist they'll be out of business

by Hellsangel Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in other words i am saying if the food stamp business didn't exist they'll be out of business

Greedy pigs! The 99% should short their stock. That will teach them.

by confuzzled dude Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:02 pm

It's called "free market" Comrades will never get it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:03 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in other words i am saying if the food stamp business didn't exist they'll be out of business
Greedy pigs! The 99% should short their stock. That will teach them.

business media houses are saying it too. i am not the only one. another way they benefit:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/why-walmart-really-needs-food-stamps

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:08 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens.html

As it turns out, McDonald's has a “McResource” line that helps employees and their families enroll in various state and local assistance programs. It exploded into the public when a recording of the McResource line advocated that full-time employees sign up for food stamps and welfare.

We should get corporate welfare queens off of the public teat.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:33 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...since their employees are some of the biggest users of food stamp programs, MCD and WMT are two of the biggest welfare queens in the US. their entire existence is based on government handouts.

I don't get this. These companies are following the law of the land wrt mandatory minimum wages. If the legitimate usage of foodstamp programs by eligible minimum-wage earners is seen as evidence of underpayment, then push up the minimum wages by all means.

Why demonize companies that are employing hundreds of thousands of unskilled people and keeping them off the streets? Without WMT and McD around, these folks would be even bigger burdens on the welfare system.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:53 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in other words i am saying if the food stamp business didn't exist they'll be out of business
Greedy pigs! The 99% should short their stock. That will teach them.

business media houses are saying it too. i am not the only one. another way they benefit:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/why-walmart-really-needs-food-stamps

This subsidizing of WMT and MCD likes are well established. During the days of heated debate on Obama care act, there were studies that confirmed it. WMT and MCD dont give healthcare to most of its employees. These "non-permanent" employees end up buying low-income housing allowance, food stamps and now Obamacare. In fact these corporations have made it a point to hire only hourly wages - as much as possible - and dump the health care responsibilities on the Govt.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:30 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...since their employees are some of the biggest users of food stamp programs, MCD and WMT are two of the biggest welfare queens in the US. their entire existence is based on government handouts.

I don't get this. These companies are following the law of the land wrt mandatory minimum wages. If the legitimate usage of foodstamp programs by eligible minimum-wage earners is seen as evidence of underpayment, then push up the minimum wages by all means.

Why demonize companies that are employing hundreds of thousands of unskilled people and keeping them off the streets? Without WMT and McD around, these folks would be even bigger burdens on the welfare system.

demonize you say? what an interesting word! sounds like the same thing the GOP does to poor people using perfectly legit means just to survive.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:38 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...since their employees are some of the biggest users of food stamp programs, MCD and WMT are two of the biggest welfare queens in the US. their entire existence is based on government handouts.

I don't get this. These companies are following the law of the land wrt mandatory minimum wages. If the legitimate usage of foodstamp programs by eligible minimum-wage earners is seen as evidence of underpayment, then push up the minimum wages by all means.

Why demonize companies that are employing hundreds of thousands of unskilled people and keeping them off the streets? Without WMT and McD around, these folks would be even bigger burdens on the welfare system.

demonize you say? what an interesting word! sounds like the same thing the GOP does to poor people using perfectly legit means just to survive.

Prof, they are wrong too. Welfare abuse is a valid area for scrutiny and clean-up, but namecalling by either side will only hamper - and not help - progress in doing that.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:44 am

MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:18 am

and hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this republican congress will vote to raise the minimum wage.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:21 am

Elbow patch professor in full ivory tower righteous anger mode

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:22 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:and hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this republican congress will vote to raise the minimum wage.

Minimum wages are for state legislatures to decide, not the Congress.

by truthbetold Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:57 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.

does abuse means taking advantage of current economic environment?
are you raising moral question? or a political question?
You did not make a legal case or business argument. you are accusing mcd and wmt based on your pov.
i am for reasonable wages but that is a wider business and economic fight.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:57 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:and hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this republican congress will vote to raise the minimum wage.

Minimum wages are for state legislatures to decide, not the Congress.

no. there is such a thing as minimum wage set by the US department of labor. states can set their own, but it can be no less than the federal minimum.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:59 am

truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.
does abuse means taking advantage of current economic environment?
are you raising moral question? or a political question?
You did not make a legal case or business argument. you are accusing mcd and wmt based on your pov.
i am for reasonable wages but that is a wider business and economic fight.

it's a political and economic question of the same kind that republicans raise when they talk about welfare queens who watch television at home while eating doritos. they don't have a legal case either. why are we the taxpayers subsidizing WMT and MCD's operations?

by truthbetold Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:41 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.
does abuse means taking advantage of current economic environment?
are you raising moral question? or a political question?
You did not make a legal case or business argument. you are accusing mcd and wmt based on your pov.
i am for reasonable wages but that is a wider business and economic fight.

it's a political and economic question of the same kind that republicans raise when they talk about welfare queens who watch television at home while eating doritos. they don't have a legal case either. why are we the taxpayers subsidizing WMT and MCD's operations?

what dollar amount is mcd wmt are receiving from federal or any govt from welfare budget?

by Idéfix Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:43 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:and hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this republican congress will vote to raise the minimum wage.

Minimum wages are for state legislatures to decide, not the Congress.

The federal minimum wage sets the floor for wages in the country. The current minimum wage translates to about $15000 a year for full time work. Federal poverty level is over 20k.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:46 am

Idéfix wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:and hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this republican congress will vote to raise the minimum wage.

Minimum wages are for state legislatures to decide, not the Congress.
The federal minimum wage sets the floor for wages in the country. The current minimum wage translates to about $15000 a year for full time work. Federal poverty level is over 20k.

Please do not bring your bête noire out of a delusional state by posting here.

by Idéfix Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:48 am

truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.
does abuse means taking advantage of current economic environment?
are you raising moral question? or a political question?
You did not make a legal case or business argument. you are accusing mcd and wmt based on your pov.
i am for reasonable wages but that is a wider business and economic fight.

it's a political and economic question of the same kind that republicans raise when they talk about welfare queens who watch television at home while eating doritos. they don't have a legal case either. why are we the taxpayers subsidizing WMT and MCD's operations?

what dollar amount is mcd wmt are receiving from federal or any govt from welfare budget?

Individual beneficiaries of SNAP (aka food stamp program) do not receive any dollar amount from the federal government either. SNAP pays the card service vendor who in turn pays the supermarket. That doesn't stop the GOP from demonizing those poor people.

by confuzzled dude Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:51 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:MD i agree but this is how the GOP likes to play the game. the point here is to highlight welfare abuse by huge corps since the other side only points out abuse by individuals.
does abuse means taking advantage of current economic environment?
are you raising moral question? or a political question?
You did not make a legal case or business argument. you are accusing mcd and wmt based on your pov.
i am for reasonable wages but that is a wider business and economic fight.

it's a political and economic question of the same kind that republicans raise when they talk about welfare queens who watch television at home while eating doritos. they don't have a legal case either. why are we the taxpayers subsidizing WMT and MCD's operations?

TBT, would you rather like the word exploit over abuse?
If more and more working Americans have to rely on food stamps to survive then there is something wrong with the system.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-new-face-of-food-stamps-working-age-americans/2014/01/27/bdf19cf6-8737-11e3-a760-a86415d0944d_story.html

"Full- and part-time workers employed year-round saw the fastest growth in food stamp participation since 1980, making up 17 percent and 7 percent of households, respectively. In contrast, the share of food stamp households headed by an unemployed person has remained largely unchanged, at 53 percent. Part-year workers declined in food stamp share"

by truthbetold Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:53 am

Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:38 am

truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

by confuzzled dude Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:53 am

truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

What's illogical about it? MCD openly encourages and counsels its employees to apply for food stamps. Why can't they pay them a bit more? It's not like that corporation is hurting, aren't they sitting on billions of dollars of profit. For our resident "DIG"ambara swamis any kind of exploitation under the garb of Capitalism is perfectly fine and justified.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:03 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

going by the results of the last presidential election, that's more than half the people who see the world upside down. which way is up?

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:19 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

going by the results of the last presidential election, that's more than half the people who see the world upside down. which way is up?

Election cycle wins come and go, but you are welcome to hold on to 2008 and 2012. Perhaps the 2014 midterm election results will tell you better, like the 2010 House results did.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Let us see how socialist Britain is faring:

Six million Britons are living in homes where no one has a job and "benefits are a way of life", a report by MPs revealed yesterday.
And they cost the taxpayer nearly £13billion a year in state handouts.
This army of families on benefit - nearly one in six of all households in the country - has been untouched by a decade of Labour's attempts to get them into work, said the Public Accounts Committee.
Four out of five of these homes have no one who is even looking for a job.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512754/Britains-benefits-generation-State-handouts-way-life-million.html#ixzz2ru10jTpD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:10 pm

And in Germany:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/80-of-turkish-muslim-settlers-in-germany-live-off-welfare/ wrote:Turks came to Germany as ‘guest workers’. They were supposed to provide some “necessary cheap labor” and then leave. But it didn’t work out that way.

And the topic has obvious implications for our own Gang of 8′s guest worker plan, which is going to lead to non-workers bankrupting the social welfare system even further.

Three million Turks live already in Germany already, while 2.5 million of them have German nationality, and the majority of them are conservative Muslims.

Very few Turks in Germany have a regular job; about 20%. The other 80% live on the so-called Hartz IV (state social benefits). 70% of their children have no GCSE; they left school before they finished their basic education.

by Idéfix Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

going by the results of the last presidential election, that's more than half the people who see the world upside down. which way is up?

Election cycle wins come and go, but you are welcome to hold on to 2008 and 2012. Perhaps the 2014 midterm election results will tell you better, like the 2010 House results did.

Turnout in 2008: 62%
Turnout in 2010: 41%
Turnout in 2012: 59%

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

going by the results of the last presidential election, that's more than half the people who see the world upside down. which way is up?

lets see who the core constituency for dems are that vote actively in elections...hmmm

by Idéfix Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:15 pm

Hmm indeed...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/12/us/entitlement-map.html?_r=1&

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:25 pm

Idéfix wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

leftwingers in general and academics in particular see the world upside down

going by the results of the last presidential election, that's more than half the people who see the world upside down. which way is up?

Election cycle wins come and go, but you are welcome to hold on to 2008 and 2012. Perhaps the 2014 midterm election results will tell you better, like the 2010 House results did.
Turnout in 2008: 62%
Turnout in 2010: 41%
Turnout in 2012: 59%

Yeah. Are you saying that the voters who voted the President in are too stupid to turn up for Congressional elections? They would rather follow a cult leader whose koolaid they can drink than electing the legislature that actually makes the laws?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:55 pm

Idéfix wrote:Hmm indeed...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/12/us/entitlement-map.html?_r=1&

global liberal always has some data and bar graphs to tell you what's coming down your head is yellow rain

by truthbetold Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:05 pm

[quote="confuzzled dude"]

truthbetold wrote:Max/ide
so gop demonizes poor people. that gives you the right to call two of the major employers welfare queens with flimsy illogic ?

What's illogical about it? MCD openly encourages and counsels its employees to apply for food stamps. Why can't they pay them a bit more? It's not like that corporation is hurting, aren't they sitting on billions of dollars of profit.

cd
If a corporation is located in a difficult to reach.area and works with.local govt.transportation to arrange daily transportation would you consider that munching off govt money? would you argue that because it is a big corporation it should arrange luxury buses like Google?
making it easy for employees to get some benefits is similar to.a corporation.allowing h&r block set up shop on its premises. would you argue that corp is helping employees get more payback from feds instead of paying more salaries?
supporting employees take advantage of what is legally available is a service.

if you want fight for a fair wage that is a different issue. you need to do the hard work . labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:19 pm

Now that I have red the responses, I am ready to pass my judgement.

WMT and MCD are guilty of hypocrisy. Govt created the food stamps and medicaid to HELP those unfortunate people who dont even make enough to feed.

The WMT/MCD eitehr should openly say they are all in it for money and money only and stop all their crap about Helping charities, opposing govt subsidies, and bribing various govts for their business deals and simply pay their employees above the poverty level so that their employees dont have to beg the govt. Or, become a non-profit organization and cut their exec pays and seek additional help from Govt.

No law can be perfect and it is left to the people to make it work as best as possible. Corporations are smart enough to KNOW the laws and know the intention behind the laws and should refrain from misusing, abusing and exploiting it.

So be recorded.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:12 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Now that I have red the responses, I am ready to pass my judgement.

WMT and MCD are guilty of hypocrisy. Govt created the food stamps and medicaid to HELP those unfortunate people who dont even make enough to feed.

The WMT/MCD eitehr should openly say they are all in it for money and money only and stop all their crap about Helping charities, opposing govt subsidies, and bribing various govts for their business deals and simply pay their employees above the poverty level so that their employees dont have to beg the govt. Or, become a non-profit organization and cut their exec pays and seek additional help from Govt.

No law can be perfect and it is left to the people to make it work as best as possible. Corporations are smart enough to KNOW the laws and know the intention behind the laws and should refrain from misusing, abusing and exploiting it.

So be recorded.

Your Holiness who knows it all, would you rather be called Your Honor who knows it all?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:52 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Now that I have red the responses, I am ready to pass my judgement.

WMT and MCD are guilty of hypocrisy. Govt created the food stamps and medicaid to HELP those unfortunate people who dont even make enough to feed.

The WMT/MCD eitehr should openly say they are all in it for money and money only and stop all their crap about Helping charities, opposing govt subsidies, and bribing various govts for their business deals and simply pay their employees above the poverty level so that their employees dont have to beg the govt. Or, become a non-profit organization and cut their exec pays and seek additional help from Govt.

No law can be perfect and it is left to the people to make it work as best as possible. Corporations are smart enough to KNOW the laws and know the intention behind the laws and should refrain from misusing, abusing and exploiting it.

So be recorded.

Your Holiness who knows it all, would you rather be called Your Honor who knows it all?

I am a simple, humble Samanian. I know nothing and things "just come" into my head.... Wink

by Idéfix Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:38 pm

truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.

As is the label welfare queen itself.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:41 pm

Idéfix wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.
As is the label welfare queen itself.

Hmm. Let's see what it means.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/welfare_queen

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=welfare+queen

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:43 pm

Idéfix wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.
As is the label welfare queen itself.

Sorry..cannot accept ANY of your posts with a graph....

P.S. did u switch company?

by smArtha Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:03 pm

Idéfix wrote:The federal minimum wage sets the floor for wages in the country. The current minimum wage translates to about $15000 a year for full time work. Federal poverty level is over 20k.

Is that true? The minimum wage established doesn't even put the 'full time round the year' working ones above poverty level? Is the $20K per family or per person? If per person, it doesn't make any sense to have someone working full time all through the year and yet stay in poverty (unless he/she has unusual payment obligations like past debts or expensive on going treatments etc).

by truthbetold Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:18 pm

Idéfix wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.
As is the label welfare queen itself.

No body accused Regan or Republicans of being intellectually honest.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:10 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.
As is the label welfare queen itself.

No body accused Regan or Republicans of being intellectually honest.

hey i didn't make up the term. just used it like it was intended to be used by the inventors is all.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:23 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
labelling mcd as welfare queen is cheap intellectually lazy populist political trick.
As is the label welfare queen itself.

No body accused Regan or Republicans of being intellectually honest.

hey i didn't make up the term. just used it like it was intended to be used by the inventors is all.

The only intellectually honest people are the left leaning academics in their ivory towers.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:21 am

taxpayers are subsidizing walmart to the tune of $5800 per employee: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-03/are-american-taxpayers-subsidizing-walmarts-low-wages

more detailed numbers here:
http://democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/sites/democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/files/documents/WalMartReport-May2013.pdf

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:28 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:taxpayers are subsidizing walmart to the tune of $5800 per employee: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-03/are-american-taxpayers-subsidizing-walmarts-low-wages

more detailed numbers here:
http://democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/sites/democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/files/documents/WalMartReport-May2013.pdf

Prof, I'm not disputing any of this. Anybody working full-time on minimum wages necessarily needs to avail of government benefits, regardless of whether it is a burger flipper, checkout clerk or janitor. This entire campaign singles out two companies merely because they happen to be large corporations which employ disproportionately large numbers of unskilled workers, while your favorite coffee shop or grocer or restaurant is no different in this respect.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:54 am

Can these guys get along without benefits?

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