Kudos to Dina Nath Batra

Despite their assimilation to a Hindu class, the British tended to prefer the company of Muslims to Hindus for a number of reasons: Muslims were, like them, the rulers of India; they were better horsemen than the Hindus; Islam was a monotheism that revered the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament; and it was quite easy to convert to Islam, much easier than to convert to Hinduism. The native elites (nawabs) collaborated with the British residents (nabobs) so that the latter became part of the Mughal entrepreneurial class; in 1765, one of the last Mughals formally inducted Robert Clive, governor of Bengal from 1755 to 1760, into the Mughal hierarchy as diwan, or chancellor , for Bengal.

Akbar was not always good to Hindus, but he almost always apologized after he had done them harm. He approved the conversion of a temple into a mosque and a Muslim theological school (madrassa). In Nagarkot, near Kangra , during Akbar’s reign, Muslim soldiers under Birbal slaughtered two hundred cows and many Hindus and demolished a temple. Local tradition adds that later Akbar made amends and sent a golden umbrella to cover the idol. Akbar also allowed the reconstruction of a Hindu temple built at Kurukshetra, cite of the Mahabharata battle, when it had been demolished and a mosque built on its debris. 33 He admitted that in his youth he had forced many Hindus to convert to Islam (he offered life to his first adversaries, after the battle of Panipat in 1556, only if they would convert to Islam 34 ), but he later regretted it 35 and went to great lengths to see that Hindus were treated with respect.

Hellsangel wrote:On Akbar:

Akbar was not always good to Hindus, but he almost always apologized after he had done them harm. He approved the conversion of a temple into a mosque and a Muslim theological school (madrassa). In Nagarkot, near Kangra , during Akbar’s reign, Muslim soldiers under Birbal slaughtered two hundred cows and many Hindus and demolished a temple. Local tradition adds that later Akbar made amends and sent a golden umbrella to cover the idol. Akbar also allowed the reconstruction of a Hindu temple built at Kurukshetra, cite of the Mahabharata battle, when it had been demolished and a mosque built on its debris. 33 He admitted that in his youth he had forced many Hindus to convert to Islam (he offered life to his first adversaries, after the battle of Panipat in 1556, only if they would convert to Islam 34 ), but he later regretted it 35 and went to great lengths to see that Hindus were treated with respect.

Doniger, Wendy (2009-02-24). The Hindus: An Alternative History (p. 534). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.

Hellsangel wrote:You can buy that book on Amazon, if you like, Papi.

FluteHolder wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:On Akbar:

Akbar was not always good to Hindus, but he almost always apologized after he had done them harm. He approved the conversion of a temple into a mosque and a Muslim theological school (madrassa). In Nagarkot, near Kangra , during Akbar’s reign, Muslim soldiers under Birbal slaughtered two hundred cows and many Hindus and demolished a temple. Local tradition adds that later Akbar made amends and sent a golden umbrella to cover the idol. Akbar also allowed the reconstruction of a Hindu temple built at Kurukshetra, cite of the Mahabharata battle, when it had been demolished and a mosque built on its debris. 33 He admitted that in his youth he had forced many Hindus to convert to Islam (he offered life to his first adversaries, after the battle of Panipat in 1556, only if they would convert to Islam 34 ), but he later regretted it 35 and went to great lengths to see that Hindus were treated with respect.

Doniger, Wendy (2009-02-24). The Hindus: An Alternative History (p. 534). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.

So Akbar was a great king - Signed by R.....n

Kinnera wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You can buy that book on Amazon, if you like, Papi.

The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

truthbetold wrote:I understand conversion to Islam or Christianity. there is a process for it. but what is conversion to Hinduism mean?  when does one become a Hindu?

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You can buy that book on Amazon, if you like, Papi.

The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You can buy that book on Amazon, if you like, Papi.

The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You can buy that book on Amazon, if you like, Papi.

The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

you are wrong as usual about your claim that banning of books started with Satanic Verses. After 1947, the first significant literary ban was on the book 'Rama Retold' which was a rationalist reinterpretation of the Ramayana.

Penguin is a big publishing company but it does not want to take on someone who could become the Prime Minister. This is also the reason why so many anti-Modi journalists and editors are losing their jobs because the proprietors are scared of being victimized if a fascist comes to power.

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
The ratings and reviews are so bad for the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hindus-An-Alternative-History/product-reviews/014311669X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RIQTDYMD96TFB

if you disagree with a book, write another book or article critiquing the book. Banning any book is idiotic. Narendra Modi has banned several books in his home state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, for this reason, is an idiot.

It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Don't you?
Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
It has not been banned in India. Penguin recalled the book in india coz of the court case.

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

you are wrong as usual about your claim that banning of books started with Satanic Verses. After 1947, the first significant literary ban was on the book 'Rama Retold' which was a rationalist reinterpretation of the Ramayana.

Penguin is a big publishing company but it does not want to take on someone who could become the Prime Minister. This is also the reason why so many anti-Modi journalists and editors are losing their jobs because the proprietors are scared of being victimized if a fascist comes to power.

Believe whatever makes you happy.

Bye.

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

This was a lower court decision. Penguin could have appealed to a higher court. Penguin did not want to take on the Chaddi Brigade led by Narendra Modi since if Modi comes to power they know he will go after them. This Chaddi Brigade is the core constituency of Narendra Modi.

you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

you are wrong as usual about your claim that banning of books started with Satanic Verses. After 1947, the first significant literary ban was on the book 'Rama Retold' which was a rationalist reinterpretation of the Ramayana.

Penguin is a big publishing company but it does not want to take on someone who could become the Prime Minister. This is also the reason why so many anti-Modi journalists and editors are losing their jobs because the proprietors are scared of being victimized if a fascist comes to power.

Believe whatever makes you happy.

Bye.

After 1947, perhaps the most important early literary ban put in place by the Indian Government was that of Aubrey Menen’s Rama Retold. By this time, a shift had begun, with sexual explicitness drawing the attention of hardline ban-loving fringe elements less than texts that offended their ‘religious sentiments’. A satirist in the English language of Irish and Indian parentage, Menen’s modern retelling of the Ramayana, which appeared in 1954, delightful and irreverent at the same time, horrified devout ‘Hindu’ readers. The book was banned almost immediately. Here was another ‘man without a country’, marrying in his prolific writings the ‘jigsaw puzzle of his identity’ with his bold take on nationalism and cultural contrasts. Author of another satirised epic, The Great Indian Novel, Shashi Tharoor writes, ‘When the Indo-British writer Aubrey Menen wrote a rationalist version of the Ramayana in 1956, Rama Retold, the book was promptly banned in India, and, deprived of its natural audience in our country, it has faded away without enriching our collective consciousness of the possibilities of the great epic.’

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/arts-letters/reading-in-sin

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
you don't know what to do when you get your foot in your mouth. Penguin is a big publishing company. It could've fought the case in the supreme court if it believed in the book and if it believed that it will win the case. Penguin didn't have the conviction in the book, so it withdrew. India is a democratic country, btw. No modi or the chaddi brigade can do anything.

btw, the tradition of banning books started with Rajiv Gandhi with the banning of Satanic Verses.

you are wrong as usual about your claim that banning of books started with Satanic Verses. After 1947, the first significant literary ban was on the book 'Rama Retold' which was a rationalist reinterpretation of the Ramayana.

Penguin is a big publishing company but it does not want to take on someone who could become the Prime Minister. This is also the reason why so many anti-Modi journalists and editors are losing their jobs because the proprietors are scared of being victimized if a fascist comes to power.

Believe whatever makes you happy.

Bye.

After 1947, perhaps the most important early literary ban put in place by the Indian Government was that of Aubrey Menen’s Rama Retold. By this time, a shift had begun, with sexual explicitness drawing the attention of hardline ban-loving fringe elements less than texts that offended their ‘religious sentiments’. A satirist in the English language of Irish and Indian parentage, Menen’s modern retelling of the Ramayana, which appeared in 1954, delightful and irreverent at the same time, horrified devout ‘Hindu’ readers. The book was banned almost immediately. Here was another ‘man without a country’, marrying in his prolific writings the ‘jigsaw puzzle of his identity’ with his bold take on nationalism and cultural contrasts. Author of another satirised epic, The Great Indian Novel, Shashi Tharoor writes, ‘When the Indo-British writer Aubrey Menen wrote a rationalist version of the Ramayana in 1956, Rama Retold, the book was promptly banned in India, and, deprived of its natural audience in our country, it has faded away without enriching our collective consciousness of the possibilities of the great epic.’

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/arts-letters/reading-in-sin

"Penguin is a big publishing company but it does not want to take on someone who could become the Prime Minister. This is also the reason why so many anti-Modi journalists and editors are losing their jobs because the proprietors are scared of being victimized if a fascist comes to power." Rashmun

I was talking more abt this when i wrote what i wrote above.

btw, the first time i heard abt a book being banned is Satanic verses. The recent trend of banning books has been started by you very own Rajiv Gandhi. I wonder if any book has been banned since 1956 until satanic verses. Anyway, let me remind you one more time that Wendy's book that we are talking abt has *not* been banned in India.

PS: Stay paranoid about Modi. It's fun to watch.

Bye.

Rashmun wrote:
Wendy's book has been 'withdrawn' after the publisher kept fighting a court case which had been registered by the Chaddi Brigade for a full four years. It had the option of appealing the erroneous lower court decision but decided not to because of FEAR of Modi coming to power and hounding Penguin.

There is a whole program hosted on this issue by Sagarika Ghose: http://ibnlive.in.com/cnnibnshow/Face-the-People/451430.html

Narendra Modi is indirectly held responsible for the fate of the book by some of the panelists on the show.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i don't like doniger or her acolytes. i have supported rajiv malhotra's well written take down of this type of scholarship. however, i stand opposed to any book banning.  incidentally has anyone read malhotra's book?

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-India-Interventions-Dravidian-Faultlines/dp/8191067374%3FSubscriptionId%3D0JJEH4PKQM4ZHS8QY102%26tag%3Dthehuffingtop-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8191067374

Hellsangel wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i don't like doniger or her acolytes. i have supported rajiv malhotra's well written take down of this type of scholarship. however, i stand opposed to any book banning.  incidentally has anyone read malhotra's book?

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-India-Interventions-Dravidian-Faultlines/dp/8191067374%3FSubscriptionId%3D0JJEH4PKQM4ZHS8QY102%26tag%3Dthehuffingtop-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8191067374

Have you read it?

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:I understand conversion to Islam or Christianity. there is a process for it. but what is conversion to Hinduism mean?  when does one become a Hindu?

one way i think would be to do the yagno pavitra (yagno pavithram).

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i don't like doniger or her acolytes. i have supported rajiv malhotra's well written take down of this type of scholarship. however, i stand opposed to any book banning.  incidentally has anyone read malhotra's book?

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-India-Interventions-Dravidian-Faultlines/dp/8191067374%3FSubscriptionId%3D0JJEH4PKQM4ZHS8QY102%26tag%3Dthehuffingtop-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8191067374

truthbetold wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:I understand conversion to Islam or Christianity. there is a process for it. but what is conversion to Hinduism mean?  when does one become a Hindu?

one way i think would be to do the yagno pavitra (yagno pavithram).

rash
yagno pavitra is required for Brahmins, vysya and may be kshyatriya varna or caste. it is not a Hindu requirement. sudhras form the majority of Hindus. so why should the new guy perform a ritual that is a custom of may be less than 2 or 3% of Hindus?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i don't like doniger or her acolytes. i have supported rajiv malhotra's well written take down of this type of scholarship. however, i stand opposed to any book banning.  incidentally has anyone read malhotra's book?

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-India-Interventions-Dravidian-Faultlines/dp/8191067374%3FSubscriptionId%3D0JJEH4PKQM4ZHS8QY102%26tag%3Dthehuffingtop-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8191067374

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:I understand conversion to Islam or Christianity. there is a process for it. but what is conversion to Hinduism mean?  when does one become a Hindu?

one way i think would be to do the yagno pavitra (yagno pavithram).

rash
yagno pavitra is required for Brahmins, vysya and may be kshyatriya varna or caste. it is not a Hindu requirement. sudhras form the majority of Hindus. so why should the new guy perform a ritual that is a custom of may be less than 2 or 3% of Hindus?

upper caste hindus constitute approximately 25% of the total population in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. i am saying this because i realize their number is less in states like AP. you are right about the fact that yagno pavitra is a custom of the 'twice born' and only upper caste hindus can do this ceremony. But there are traditions of low caste hindus doing this ceremony as well. For instance, the great Tamil Vaisnava philosopher and thinker Ramanuja had declared that even low caste hindus could become brahmins if they agreed to become his disciples. and in fact all low caste hindus who accepted him as their guru became iyengars i.e. brahmins. i think the difference between vadagalai iyengars and thenkalai iyengars is that the former were originally brahmins while the latter were low caste hindus who became brahmins after accepting Ramanuja as their guru.

Kinnera wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
Wendy's book has been 'withdrawn' after the publisher kept fighting a court case which had been registered by the Chaddi Brigade for a full four years. It had the option of appealing the erroneous lower court decision but decided not to because of FEAR of Modi coming to power and hounding Penguin.

There is a whole program hosted on this issue by Sagarika Ghose: http://ibnlive.in.com/cnnibnshow/Face-the-People/451430.html

Narendra Modi is indirectly held responsible for the fate of the book by some of the panelists on the show.

If Modi has that effect on ppl who write crap about Indian culture, religions and people, then more power to him! We have a real sher to lead its billion and a half people. Go read the reviews on amazon. Seems like one crappy book written with an agenda. Wendy is not new to distorting Hinduism, hindu gods, culture, history, etc. For all those who are crying, 'freedom of speech', etc, the book has not been banned, go fight it out in the court if you have the conviction that you are going to win the case. India is a democratic, not a dictatorship country. Modi is an/will be an elected representative, not a dictator, the courts are the final authority in India. Go fight the case and not act like cry babies.