Who are we to judge Russia?

by confuzzled dude Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:18 pm

"Is it just me, or does the rhetoric about the crisis in Ukraine sound as if all of Washington is suffering from amnesia? We’re supposed to be shocked — shocked! — that a great military power would cook up a pretext to invade a smaller, weaker nation? I’m sorry, but has everyone forgotten the unfortunate events in Iraq a few years ago

But the United States, frankly, has limited standing to insist on absolute respect for the territorial integrity of sovereign states.

Before Iraq there was Afghanistan, there was the Persian Gulf War, there was Panama, there was Grenada. And even as we condemn Moscow for its outrageous aggression, we reserve the right to fire deadly missiles into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-with-ukraine-crisis-the-us-has-a-credibility-problem/2014/03/03/f8f6a58a-a311-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Author hit the nail on the head and echoes my views.. neocons & their hypocrisy

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:39 pm

you have as much credibility as others in the world are willing to give you. i am not disagreeing with you, but such is reality.

by confuzzled dude Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:17 pm

Best comment perhaps

"Where did all these fantastical people come from who think that there's a way for a president of the United States to 'deter' Russia? Have they not been paying attention since 1945?

No Soviet or Russian leader has ever been able to 'deter' what US presidents have been determined to do, and no US president has ever been able to 'deter' what Soviet or Russian leaders have been determined to do, short of nuclear war, since the moment the first Russian atomic weapon was tested.

No US president could get Russia out of Afghanistan. The Russians did that to themsevles. No Russian leader could get the US out of Vietnam. The US did that to itself.

Both nations possess thousands of missiles tipped with atomic weapons, enough capacity to destroy all life on earth many times over.

That's why there are no words, no clever actions, no alliances, that can prevent the US or Russia from doing what it wants to do, short of atomic war. That is stalemated. Anything less, like the annexation of poor Crimea, can't really be stopped without risking mutual destruction."

by Kris Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:03 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:"Is it just me, or does the rhetoric about the crisis in Ukraine sound as if all of Washington is suffering from amnesia? We’re supposed to be shocked — shocked! — that a great military power would cook up a pretext to invade a smaller, weaker nation? I’m sorry, but has everyone forgotten the unfortunate events in Iraq a few years ago

But the United States, frankly, has limited standing to insist on absolute respect for the territorial integrity of sovereign states.

Before Iraq there was Afghanistan, there was the Persian Gulf War, there was Panama, there was Grenada. And even as we condemn Moscow for its outrageous aggression, we reserve the right to fire deadly missiles into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-with-ukraine-crisis-the-us-has-a-credibility-problem/2014/03/03/f8f6a58a-a311-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Author hit the nail on the head and echoes my views.. neocons & their hypocrisy

>>>The author also makes a fundamental error in his premise that somehow morality is a factor in geopolitical power struggles. It has never been. It is about protecting one's self-interest i.e. sphere of influence, of which land grab is a subset.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:"Is it just me, or does the rhetoric about the crisis in Ukraine sound as if all of Washington is suffering from amnesia? We’re supposed to be shocked — shocked! — that a great military power would cook up a pretext to invade a smaller, weaker nation? I’m sorry, but has everyone forgotten the unfortunate events in Iraq a few years ago

But the United States, frankly, has limited standing to insist on absolute respect for the territorial integrity of sovereign states.

Before Iraq there was Afghanistan, there was the Persian Gulf War, there was Panama, there was Grenada. And even as we condemn Moscow for its outrageous aggression, we reserve the right to fire deadly missiles into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-with-ukraine-crisis-the-us-has-a-credibility-problem/2014/03/03/f8f6a58a-a311-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Author hit the nail on the head and echoes my views.. neocons & their hypocrisy
>>>The author also makes a fundamental error in his premise that somehow morality is a factor in geopolitical power struggles. It has never been. It is about protecting one's self-interest i.e. sphere of influence, of which land grab is a subset.

that is true, but that has never stopped successive american administrations from making it a conversational piece - to wit, "tear down this wall", "axis of evil", and the current pronouncements of the obama/kerry combine. except this time they may have met their equal in the morality game in the russian dictator. we'll see.

by Kris Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:33 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:"Is it just me, or does the rhetoric about the crisis in Ukraine sound as if all of Washington is suffering from amnesia? We’re supposed to be shocked — shocked! — that a great military power would cook up a pretext to invade a smaller, weaker nation? I’m sorry, but has everyone forgotten the unfortunate events in Iraq a few years ago

But the United States, frankly, has limited standing to insist on absolute respect for the territorial integrity of sovereign states.

Before Iraq there was Afghanistan, there was the Persian Gulf War, there was Panama, there was Grenada. And even as we condemn Moscow for its outrageous aggression, we reserve the right to fire deadly missiles into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-with-ukraine-crisis-the-us-has-a-credibility-problem/2014/03/03/f8f6a58a-a311-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Author hit the nail on the head and echoes my views.. neocons & their hypocrisy
>>>The author also makes a fundamental error in his premise that somehow morality is a factor in geopolitical power struggles. It has never been. It is about protecting one's self-interest i.e. sphere of influence, of which land grab is a subset.

that is true, but that has never stopped successive american administrations from making it a conversational piece - to wit, "tear down this wall", "axis of evil", and the current pronouncements of the obama/kerry combine. except this time they may have met their equal in the morality game in the russian dictator. we'll see.

>>>Making your enemy out to be the devil himself is par for the course and everyone does it to rally the masses behind some cause or the other. Putin's lecturing of America on stifling freedom in the recent Snowden episode was a howler. The people I find naïve are the ones like the WaPost article's author who thinks somehow this has ever been an issue. The author is on the money though on the issue of neither side being able to contain the other.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:"Is it just me, or does the rhetoric about the crisis in Ukraine sound as if all of Washington is suffering from amnesia? We’re supposed to be shocked — shocked! — that a great military power would cook up a pretext to invade a smaller, weaker nation? I’m sorry, but has everyone forgotten the unfortunate events in Iraq a few years ago

But the United States, frankly, has limited standing to insist on absolute respect for the territorial integrity of sovereign states.

Before Iraq there was Afghanistan, there was the Persian Gulf War, there was Panama, there was Grenada. And even as we condemn Moscow for its outrageous aggression, we reserve the right to fire deadly missiles into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-with-ukraine-crisis-the-us-has-a-credibility-problem/2014/03/03/f8f6a58a-a311-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Author hit the nail on the head and echoes my views.. neocons & their hypocrisy
>>>The author also makes a fundamental error in his premise that somehow morality is a factor in geopolitical power struggles. It has never been. It is about protecting one's self-interest i.e. sphere of influence, of which land grab is a subset.

that is true, but that has never stopped successive american administrations from making it a conversational piece - to wit, "tear down this wall", "axis of evil", and the current pronouncements of the obama/kerry combine. except this time they may have met their equal in the morality game in the russian dictator. we'll see.

>>>Making your enemy out to be the devil himself is par for the course and everyone does it to rally the masses behind some cause or the other. Putin's lecturing of America on stifling freedom in the recent Snowden episode was a howler. The people I find naïve are the ones like the WaPost article's author who thinks somehow this has ever been an issue. The author is on the money though on the issue of neither side being able to contain the other.

liberals are big on avoiding hypocrisy at all costs except when it pertains to their favorite groups. I guess conservatives are the same but atleast they dont pretend like their shit dont stink

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:07 am

In international politics

1. there is no such thing as "Fairness"

2. Preaching is ALWAYS for others.

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