mms putty in sonia's hands: secular silence

by truthbetold Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:33 am

All those "secular" conciliate keepers in media and on such are very busy during 2014 election cycle. They have raised the the possibility of autocratic decision making, and fascism under modi's leadership.Many impartial observed that future they were pointing to was here. Sonia Gandhi was running the country through remote control. She concentrated political, governmental and even personnel decision in her hands. This created paralysis in government. Corruption of. Incredible amounts was tolerated. Country's economy got pummeled by major hurdles with no direction.

They then added rahul and his foolish diktats to the mix to further erode any sense of democratic functioning.

Mms became a complete slave to these forces and reduced the prestige of pm's office to that of a clerk implementin
i do not g orders from above. All this would have been of no importance if India is making progress. But this style functioning stalled growth and led to price rise and poor job growth. India and its people suffered the violence unleashed by poverty.
yet non of the secular lavender raised their voice or made any attempt to fight it. Now just before 2014 elections they all write analysis based on their certain knowledge of future that modi is a danger to Indian democracy.
I do not know what modi will do in future. But I have proof that Sonia and her dynasty is autocratic and anti democratic. They caused great harm to India. They must be defeated in the coming elections. That should job number 1 for 2014 elections. Those seculars that failed to raise their voice against Sonia are just mask wearing Congress men in make up. They lost their credibility.

by truthbetold Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:59 am

truthbetold wrote:All those "secular" concious keepers in media and on such are very busy during 2014 election cycle. They have raised the the possibility of autocratic decision making, and fascism under modi's leadership.Many impartial observers say that future they were pointing to was here. Sonia Gandhi was running the country through remote control. She concentrated political, governmental and even personnel decision in her hands. This created paralysis in government. Corruption of. Incredible amounts was tolerated. Country's economy got pummeled by major hurdles with no direction.

They then added rahul and his foolish diktats to the mix to further erode any sense of democratic functioning.

Mms became a complete slave to these forces and reduced the prestige of pm's office to that of a clerk implementing oders from above. All this would have been of no importance if India is making progress. But this style of functioning stalled growth and led to price rise and poor job growth. India and its people suffered the violence unleashed by poverty.
yet non of the secular mavens raised their voice or made any attempt to fight it. Now just before 2014 elections they all write analysis based on their certain knowledge of future that modi is a danger to Indian democracy.
I do not know what modi will do in future. But I have proof that Sonia and her dynasty is autocratic and anti democratic. They caused great harm to India. They must be defeated in the coming elections. That should job number 1 for 2014 elections. Those seculars that failed to raise their voice against Sonia are just mask wearing Congress men in make up. They lost their credibility.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:39 am

I think Mr.Baru comes across as disingenuous and bitter for not getting the job he wanted in UPA II or probably exaggerating to sell his book. If she was a control-freak Kirankumar Reddy would not have survived as long as he did. He was pretty vocal about bifurcation stand & at loggerheads with high command. Media was speculating his dismissal non-stop but it never happened. Secondly, she did not make Rahul PM, a control freak wouldn't miss on an opportunity like that. I think if anybody else were in that position India would've been much deeper down in the dumps.

by rawemotions Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:30 am

She was not a control freak. Sonia was just running the show with MMS as the Mask. She was enjoying power without accountability. She put Pulok Chatterjee in PMO office, who allegedly used to report to her with all the info/files coming through to PMO. She used to make appointments by proxy even in PMO. So effectively Sonia was the PM working from home. Not sure how many of those files Rahul was involved in.

No wonder economy/external debt/price rise/inflation/security/finance/foreign relations all went to dogs.

In a way it is MMS declaring through Sanjay Baru (Don't Blame me, I was not at work!)

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:42 am

rawemotions wrote:She was not a control freak. Sonia was just running the show with MMS as the Mask. She was enjoying power without accountability. She put Pulok Chatterjee in PMO office, who allegedly used to report to her with all the info/files coming through to PMO. She used to make appointments by proxy even in PMO. So effectively Sonia was the PM working from home. Not sure how many of those files Rahul was involved in.

No wonder economy/external debt/price rise/inflation/security/finance/foreign relations all went to dogs.

In a way it is MMS declaring through Sanjay Baru (Don't Blame me, I was not at work!)

eh! right. He likes to be called Hijra.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:53 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:She was not a control freak. Sonia was just running the show with MMS as the Mask. She was enjoying power without accountability. She put Pulok Chatterjee in PMO office, who allegedly used to report to her with all the info/files coming through to PMO. She used to make appointments by proxy even in PMO. So effectively Sonia was the PM working from home. Not sure how many of those files Rahul was involved in.

No wonder economy/external debt/price rise/inflation/security/finance/foreign relations all went to dogs.

In a way it is MMS declaring through Sanjay Baru (Don't Blame me, I was not at work!)

eh! right. He likes to be called Hijra.

You are not as biased and narrow minded like Maulana Rashmunullah...are you ? I am impressed even with Maulana Gaywala who criticized COnmen.

Try to be unbiased and objective - like me.... Wink

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:29 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:She was not a control freak. Sonia was just running the show with MMS as the Mask. She was enjoying power without accountability. She put Pulok Chatterjee in PMO office, who allegedly used to report to her with all the info/files coming through to PMO. She used to make appointments by proxy even in PMO. So effectively Sonia was the PM working from home. Not sure how many of those files Rahul was involved in.

No wonder economy/external debt/price rise/inflation/security/finance/foreign relations all went to dogs.

In a way it is MMS declaring through Sanjay Baru (Don't Blame me, I was not at work!)

eh! right. He likes to be called Hijra.

You are not as biased and narrow minded like Maulana Rashmunullah...are you ? I am impressed even with Maulana Gaywala who criticized COnmen.

Try to be unbiased and objective - like me....

Look at it this way, would things have been any better if she weren't part of the ruling party? Cabinet appears to have had complete freedom, look how Chaidambaram ran his mouth in '11 to jump start A.P bifurcation process, it didn't have any traction prior to that. BTW, autocratic and dysfunctional don't usually go hand in hand, first up makeup your mind as to which one it is.

by rawemotions Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:32 am

First please know your facts properly. YSR could not take on TDP and kick started Telangana agitation through KCR. He infact used his support to win votes there to defeat TDP.

Regarding this question. How do you know Chidu had said this, without Sonia's consent. Were you there ? it is inconceivable that in such an important question, Chidu did not take the assent of Party president.

The incompetence is proved. Rest all we do not know.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:57 am

rawemotions wrote:First please know your facts properly. YSR could not take on TDP and kick started Telangana agitation through KCR. He infact used his support to win votes there to defeat TDP.

Regarding this question. How do you know Chidu had said this, without Sonia's consent. Were you there ? it is inconceivable that in such an important question, Chidu did not take the assent of Party president.

The incompetence is proved. Rest all we do not know.

Newsflash for you. TRS was pretty much dead in '09 (post elections).

by pravalika nanda Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:24 pm

i'm just randomly wondering. what if like a sikh guy needs to have brain surgery, you know the kind that you actually have to shave the head for to make a hole in the skull. not the kind you can do through the nose.

actually it's not so random, mms probably needs it.

a lot of ny cabbies are sikh as are most truck drivers in india. guess it's good protection in trauma and motor vehicle accident situations. they should cont to wear it.

by rawemotions Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:04 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:First please know your facts properly. YSR could not take on TDP and kick started Telangana agitation through KCR. He infact used his support to win votes there to defeat TDP.

Regarding this question. How do you know Chidu had said this, without Sonia's consent. Were you there ? it is inconceivable that in such an important question, Chidu did not take the assent of Party president.

The incompetence is proved. Rest all we do not know.
Newsflash for you. TRS was pretty much dead in '09 (post elections).

Not sure of your answer. Are you denying my claims ? I am talking about the first elections when YSR kickstarted Telangana Agitations through KCR to come back to power and defeat TDP.

Allegedly Congress is known to do anything as long as they are in power OR need to come to power.
This is in their DNA for the past 60 years. Allegedly they do NOT care about anything including constitution to achieve power.

by truthbetold Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:12 pm

Cd
your defence is always shoot the messenger or deny basic facts.
what sanjay baru said is consistent with known facts and statements by politicians who interacted with mms and sonia . whether sonia is a control freak or not is not the point of discussion. The question was did sonia run a remote control operation? did she undermine mms authority?
take the example of ap bifurcation.
do not bring up secondary issues to divert the topic.
the follow up question is sonia is a proven danger to rule of law. Why are the secular brigade not raising that issue? if Indian people wishes to dismiss such rule breaker, why is secular brigade falling over each other to oppose the will of Indian people.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:31 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
your defence is always shoot the messenger or deny basic facts.
what sanjay baru said is consistent with known facts and statements by politicians who interacted with mms and sonia . whether sonia is a control freak or not is not the point of discussion. The question was did sonia run a remote control operation? did she undermine mms authority?
take the example of ap bifurcation.
do not bring up secondary issues to divert the topic.
the follow up question is sonia is a proven danger to rule of law. Why are the secular brigade not raising that issue? if Indian people wishes to dismiss such rule breaker, why is secular brigade falling over each other to oppose the will of Indian people.

then counter my arguments than attacking me. What kind of dictatorial tendencies did you notice? Did she overly shuffle the cabinet or PMs. If what Mr. Baru said was correct then the person that should be blamed (as Mr. Baru himself opined) is MMS not Sonia, after all he was the PM.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:07 pm

rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:First please know your facts properly. YSR could not take on TDP and kick started Telangana agitation through KCR. He infact used his support to win votes there to defeat TDP.

Regarding this question. How do you know Chidu had said this, without Sonia's consent. Were you there ? it is inconceivable that in such an important question, Chidu did not take the assent of Party president.

The incompetence is proved. Rest all we do not know.
Newsflash for you. TRS was pretty much dead in '09 (post elections).
Not sure of your answer. Are you denying my claims ? I am talking about the first elections when YSR kickstarted Telangana Agitations through KCR to come back to power and defeat TDP.

Allegedly Congress is known to do anything as long as they are in power OR need to come to power.
This is in their DNA for the past 60 years. Allegedly they do NOT care about anything including constitution to achieve power.

comrade likes to throw a bunch of shit and see which ones stick. if this one doesnt and is questioned, he'll move on to the next one promptly

by truthbetold Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:24 pm

Cd
Your reply suggest that no one has presented any facts about sonia's mistakes. Every post need not have every detail included. the basic fact is that sonia operated remote control? agree or dis agree? sonia undercut mms by taking over policy and personnel decision making. agree or disagree?

is mms wrong in being suppliant to sonia. you yourself gave the answer as yes. no argument there. But does that mean only mms is responsible for the failings of Indian govt? no. Sonia is responsible at various levels. CreAting extra constitutional center of power, creating policy paralysis by not making timely decisions and for making poor decisions. such situations are not uncommon for leaders who concentrate too much power in their own hands and who are more concerned about personal gain or dynasty in this case than good public policy.
let us start here.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:38 pm

rawemotions wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
rawemotions wrote:First please know your facts properly. YSR could not take on TDP and kick started Telangana agitation through KCR. He infact used his support to win votes there to defeat TDP.

Regarding this question. How do you know Chidu had said this, without Sonia's consent. Were you there ? it is inconceivable that in such an important question, Chidu did not take the assent of Party president.

The incompetence is proved. Rest all we do not know.
Newsflash for you. TRS was pretty much dead in '09 (post elections).
Not sure of your answer. Are you denying my claims ? I am talking about the first elections when YSR kickstarted Telangana Agitations through KCR to come back to power and defeat TDP.

Allegedly Congress is known to do anything as long as they are in power OR need to come to power.
This is in their DNA for the past 60 years. Allegedly they do NOT care about anything including constitution to achieve power.

My point is TRS was crushed in '09 elections and was losing ground. The rumor was that both Harish rao & Vijayashanti were going to join Congress it never realized due to sudden demise of YSR. BTW, if it was YSR in '04 then it was CBN in '09 who joined hands with TRS. If you want to know the history, KCR quit TDP in '01, after being an integral part of it for almost two decades, do you know why? because he was influenced by the divide-and-rule politics of BJP which just broke/tore the heartland of India apart into pieces for political gains. It basically resuscitated 'T' agitation that was dormant for nearly 3 decades. So, in nutshell, BJP is the one that (indirectly) kick-started (as you put it) the 'T' agitation.

by Kris Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:19 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
Your reply suggest that no one has presented any facts about sonia's mistakes. Every post need not have every detail included. the basic fact is that sonia operated remote control? agree or dis agree? sonia undercut mms by taking over policy and personnel decision making. agree or disagree?

is mms wrong in being suppliant to sonia. you yourself gave the answer as yes. no argument there. But does that mean only mms is responsible for the failings of Indian govt? no. Sonia is responsible at various levels. CreAting extra constitutional center of power, creating policy paralysis by not making timely decisions and for making poor decisions. such situations are not uncommon for leaders who concentrate too much power in their own hands and who are more concerned about personal gain or dynasty in this case than good public policy.
let us start here.

+1

Congress shot itself in the foot by allowing itself to become this family's business. If they had groomed capable people who can articulate a vision for the country at this historic crossroads, they would have had much more of an audience.

by Guest Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:23 pm

Kris wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
Your reply suggest that no one has presented any facts about sonia's mistakes. Every post need not have every detail included. the basic fact is that sonia operated remote control? agree or dis agree? sonia undercut mms by taking over policy and personnel decision making. agree or disagree?

is mms wrong in being suppliant to sonia. you yourself gave the answer as yes. no argument there. But does that mean only mms is responsible for the failings of Indian govt? no. Sonia is responsible at various levels. CreAting extra constitutional center of power, creating policy paralysis by not making timely decisions and for making poor decisions. such situations are not uncommon for leaders who concentrate too much power in their own hands and who are more concerned about personal gain or dynasty in this case than good public policy.
let us start here.

+1

Congress shot itself in the foot by allowing itself to become this family's business. If they had groomed capable people who can articulate a vision for the country at this historic crossroads, they would have had much more of an audience.

If Congress has the family, then BJP has the RSS. I prefer the family to the RSS. At least the family consists of elected representatives who have been elected to the Lok Sabha by the people of the country. But the RSS geriatrics wield backroom power in the BJP without any popular mandate.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:10 pm

Kris wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
Your reply suggest that no one has presented any facts about sonia's mistakes. Every post need not have every detail included. the basic fact is that sonia operated remote control? agree or dis agree? sonia undercut mms by taking over policy and personnel decision making. agree or disagree?

is mms wrong in being suppliant to sonia. you yourself gave the answer as yes. no argument there. But does that mean only mms is responsible for the failings of Indian govt? no. Sonia is responsible at various levels. CreAting extra constitutional center of power, creating policy paralysis by not making timely decisions and for making poor decisions. such situations are not uncommon for leaders who concentrate too much power in their own hands and who are more concerned about personal gain or dynasty in this case than good public policy.
let us start here.

+1

Congress shot itself in the foot by allowing itself to become this family's business. If they had groomed capable people who can articulate a vision for the country at this historic crossroads, they would have had much more of an audience.

Whose fault is it though? first it was Kamaraj then later a bunch of grown boys that can't get along brought reluctant Sonia into politics. Do you think these idiots will let Sonia groom a capable person even if she wanted to?

by truthbetold Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:43 pm

Rash,

Your preference for family is your choice to offer yourself to the family service.

But my question to all of the secular's is why are they silent about Indian people's other problems?

Why are they not pointing who is involved in corruption schemes in the past 10 years?

Why are they not pointing that inflation got out of hand and common man is suffering?

Why are they not talking about housewife who is finding it difficult to make ends meet with constantly rising prices of daily essentials?

Why are they not asking questions about the mishandling of issues like AP bifurcation that led to massive protests?

Why are not asking about stangant economy?

Why are not talking about extra constitutional powers who order PM to reverse his decisions?

Find out if diggy has any answers for us.

by confuzzled dude Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:08 pm

TBT, How do you think BJP would react should they face a situation similar to the below when NDA coalition govt. is at the helm. Also, would people praise Modi for sticking to his principles or call him Kejriwal, if Modi resigns against his party's wishes? I'm asking you this because you seem to believe that whatever Sonia does is, taking decisions on behalf of PM.

"Singh put his foot down on the nuclear deal and explained to Sonia that the party would have to find another PM if it ditched the deal and proceed with its alignment with the Left, the book says. “Sonia requested Dr Singh to sleep on the issue. When after meeting him the next morning she realised he was serious, she summoned Pranab Mukherjee.” Sonia then asked Montek Singh Ahluwalia among others to persuade the PM to withdraw his resignation, it says."
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/when-sonia-put-coalition-before-n-deal-pm-said-shes-let-me-down/

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:03 am

Cd
Sonia was opposed to India's nuclear strategy. The us- India deal was proposed to defang the Indian nuclear future. Both mms and Sonia fully endorsed it. The deal passed through a shameful abandonment of parliamentary principles.
Mms resignation drama was a minor tactical twist. It was not in any way against sonia's political goals or personal agenda. Mms stand was merely a way to end intra Congress vacillation of some street smart mps.
Even in that one incident that you are able to point, mms did not go to people of India he complained to Sonia Mata.
Even after all the shananigans us and India could not enter a single nuclear plant deal to produce electricity.

by Guest Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:50 am

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Your preference for family is your choice to offer yourself to the family service.

But my question to all of the secular's is why are they silent about Indian people's other problems?

Why are they not pointing who is involved in corruption schemes in the past 10 years?

Why are they not pointing that inflation got out of hand and common man is suffering?

Why are they not talking about housewife who is finding it difficult to make ends meet with constantly rising prices of daily essentials?

Why are they not asking questions about the mishandling of issues like AP bifurcation that led to massive protests?

Why are not asking about stangant economy?

Why are not talking about extra constitutional powers who order PM to reverse his decisions?

Find out if diggy has any answers for us.

All your questions are equally applicable to the BJP/RSS. For instance with respect to your last question:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/with-bjp-firmly-in-the-saddle-rss-wants-more-say-in-govt-policies-and-functioning/1/265001.html

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:58 am

Rash,

Take a rest. While journos should question those in govt, my questions are not about possibilities. My question is about what already happened and why the secular silence ? why highlight an incident of 10 years ago to exclusion of all others?

Stop dodging and put forward your arguments, if you have any.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:55 am

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Take a rest. While journos should question those in govt, my questions are not about possibilities. My question is about what already happened and why the secular silence ? why highlight an incident of 10 years ago to exclusion of all others?

Stop dodging and put forward your arguments, if you have any.

Rashmnunullah tactic is always to put up a opinion link from the present or way past with no view of his own added to it. He IMPLIES his views are similar to the ones given in the link and how even "famous" people agree with his "implied views.: Of course, when SuCHers question or show the fallacy in the newslink, he would come out and claim the views were of the writer and he never claimed to agree or disagree with it.

Sort of like KV, except KV never retracts from the views expressed on Tamiltribune.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:31 am

truthbetold wrote:Cd
Sonia was opposed to India's nuclear strategy. The us- India deal was proposed to defang the Indian nuclear future. Both mms and Sonia fully endorsed it. The deal passed through a shameful abandonment of parliamentary principles.
Mms resignation drama was a minor tactical twist. It was not in any way against sonia's political goals or personal agenda. Mms stand was merely a way to end intra Congress vacillation of some street smart mps.
Even in that one incident that you are able to point, mms did not go to people of India he complained to Sonia Mata.
Even after all the shananigans us and India could not enter a single nuclear plant deal to produce electricity.

I don't think you've answered my question. Do you think BJP would've done differently in that situation i.e. not putting the survival of coalition ahead like Sonia did? Even Vajpayee, who famously resigned back in the day to not to give into Jayalalitha's shenanigans, said politics are full of compromises. One can't become a good leader by pulling resignation card at the first hint of disagreement. And the scenario described in that link tells me that Sonia & MMS have had their differences but tried to work them out than throwing tantrums like a toddler or by undermining others authority.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:42 am

As for your argument about A.P bifurcation, if it was done in unconstitutional way, why did BJP support it? without BJP's support it would not have passed. What BJP did was classic bait and switch tactic. SAites should fulfill Sushma Swaraj's longtime wish of shaving her head & riding a donkey wearing sackcloth and ashes.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:46 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
Sonia was opposed to India's nuclear strategy. The us- India deal was proposed to defang the Indian nuclear future. Both mms and Sonia fully endorsed it. The deal passed through a shameful abandonment of parliamentary principles.
Mms resignation drama was a minor tactical twist. It was not in any way against sonia's political goals or personal agenda. Mms stand was merely a way to end intra Congress vacillation of some street smart mps.
Even in that one incident that you are able to point, mms did not go to people of India he complained to Sonia Mata.
Even after all the shananigans us and India could not enter a single nuclear plant deal to produce electricity.
I don't think you've answered my question. Do you think BJP would've done differently in that situation i.e. not putting the survival of coalition ahead like Sonia did? Even Vajpayee, who famously resigned back in the day to not to give into Jayalalitha's shenanigans, said politics are full of compromises. One can't become a good leader by pulling resignation card at the first hint of disagreement. And the scenario described in that link tells me that Sonia & MMS have had their differences but tried to work them out than throwing tantrums like a toddler or by undermining others authority.

Forget all that could have, would have and should have....

The reason there is an election every 5 years is to judge a party/Government performance in the past 5 years.

Just to bring you upto speed, Congress (Islamic) has been running the Gvernment for the last T E N years. This is long enough to judge COng (islamic) on its own action/inaction.

by rawemotions Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:49 am

confuzzled dude wrote:As for your argument about A.P bifurcation, if it was done in unconstitutional way, why did BJP support it? without BJP's support it would not have passed. What BJP did was classic bait and switch tactic. SAites should fulfill Sushma Swaraj's longtime wish of shaving her head & riding a donkey wearing sackcloth and ashes.

Do not tried to divert attention from TBT's main points.
His argument was that AP bifurcation was mishandled.
You are just putting words in his mouth. First fix your statements

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:57 am

CD

My questions are about incidents that already happened. What BJP would have done in those cases is speculation. The question in this particular context is Sonia running remote control and lowering the prestige of PM . India feels that way despite your efforts to divert the topic.

As far as BJP role in AP bifurcation, it is not relevant to this discussion. I may have already said how I feel about it but provide a context ( another thread) I will answer.

Try again to comment on the context of this thread.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:03 pm

truthbetold wrote:CD

My questions are about incidents that already happened. What BJP would have done in those cases is speculation. The question in this particular context is Sonia running remote control and lowering the prestige of PM . India feels that way despite your efforts to divert the topic.

Stop beating around the bush, and answer my question or tell me what Sonia should have done to or not, to appease the coalition. Tell me if you hold BJP coalition to the same standards, If not, why not?

truthbetold wrote:
As far as BJP role in AP bifurcation, it is not relevant to this discussion. I may have already said how I feel about it but provide a context ( another thread) I will answer.
Try again to comment on the context of this thread.

It is relevant, as BJP as a major opposition party has been providing its own narrative on this issue all along and was playing with emotions of Telugus.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:19 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Cd
Sonia was opposed to India's nuclear strategy. The us- India deal was proposed to defang the Indian nuclear future. Both mms and Sonia fully endorsed it. The deal passed through a shameful abandonment of parliamentary principles.
Mms resignation drama was a minor tactical twist. It was not in any way against sonia's political goals or personal agenda. Mms stand was merely a way to end intra Congress vacillation of some street smart mps.
Even in that one incident that you are able to point, mms did not go to people of India he complained to Sonia Mata.
Even after all the shananigans us and India could not enter a single nuclear plant deal to produce electricity.
I don't think you've answered my question. Do you think BJP would've done differently in that situation i.e. not putting the survival of coalition ahead like Sonia did? Even Vajpayee, who famously resigned back in the day to not to give into Jayalalitha's shenanigans, said politics are full of compromises. One can't become a good leader by pulling resignation card at the first hint of disagreement. And the scenario described in that link tells me that Sonia & MMS have had their differences but tried to work them out than throwing tantrums like a toddler or by undermining others authority.

also known as putting lipstick on a pig

by Propagandhi711 Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:25 pm

truthbetold wrote:All those "secular" conciliate keepers in media and on such are very busy during 2014 election cycle. They have raised the the possibility of autocratic decision making, and fascism under modi's leadership.Many impartial observed that future they were pointing to was here. Sonia Gandhi was running the country through remote control. She concentrated political, governmental and even personnel decision in her hands. This created paralysis in government. Corruption of. Incredible amounts was tolerated. Country's economy got pummeled by major hurdles with no direction.

They then added rahul and his foolish diktats to the mix to further erode any sense of democratic functioning.

Mms became a complete slave to these forces and reduced the prestige of pm's office to that of a clerk implementin
i do not g orders from above. All this would have been of no importance if India is making progress. But this style functioning stalled growth and led to price rise and poor job growth. India and its people suffered the violence unleashed by poverty.
yet non of the secular lavender raised their voice or made any attempt to fight it. Now just before 2014 elections they all write analysis based on their certain knowledge of future that modi is a danger to Indian democracy.
I do not know what modi will do in future. But I have proof that Sonia and her dynasty is autocratic and anti democratic. They caused great harm to India. They must be defeated in the coming elections. That should job number 1 for 2014 elections. Those seculars that failed to raise their voice against Sonia are just mask wearing Congress men in make up. They lost their credibility.

this weakening of the executive is a long lasting damage to the most important govt post that congress douches & the country by extension will pay a huge price in the future. instead of giving it honest thought and critique, sucholes like to harp like broken record about modi's supposed autocratic behavior and giving their own party a free pass with some drawn out arguments that are neither logical nor factual.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:47 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:All those "secular" conciliate keepers in media and on such are very busy during 2014 election cycle. They have raised the the possibility of autocratic decision making, and fascism under modi's leadership.Many impartial observed that future they were pointing to was here. Sonia Gandhi was running the country through remote control. She concentrated political, governmental and even personnel decision in her hands. This created paralysis in government. Corruption of. Incredible amounts was tolerated. Country's economy got pummeled by major hurdles with no direction.

They then added rahul and his foolish diktats to the mix to further erode any sense of democratic functioning.

Mms became a complete slave to these forces and reduced the prestige of pm's office to that of a clerk implementin
i do not g orders from above. All this would have been of no importance if India is making progress. But this style functioning stalled growth and led to price rise and poor job growth. India and its people suffered the violence unleashed by poverty.
yet non of the secular lavender raised their voice or made any attempt to fight it. Now just before 2014 elections they all write analysis based on their certain knowledge of future that modi is a danger to Indian democracy.
I do not know what modi will do in future. But I have proof that Sonia and her dynasty is autocratic and anti democratic. They caused great harm to India. They must be defeated in the coming elections. That should job number 1 for 2014 elections. Those seculars that failed to raise their voice against Sonia are just mask wearing Congress men in make up. They lost their credibility.

this weakening of the executive is a long lasting damage to the most important govt post that congress douches & the country by extension will pay a huge price in the future. instead of giving it honest thought and critique, sucholes like to harp like broken record about modi's supposed autocratic behavior and giving their own party a free pass with some drawn out arguments that are neither logical nor factual.

What exactly is weakening of executive branch, were any amendments made to the constitution, specifically to the PM function, for them to have long lasting damage? Would you mind explaining it to us dimwits in detail rather than parroting BJP's propaganda ad infinitum.

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:13 pm

Cd
Any dimwit can see the damage done party functioning by Indira in 1970s that rreduced the effectiveness of that party and it is steady decline ever since (except for a emotion based win in 1985).

The power of democracy stems from the peoples confidence in elected institutions. Pm being chief executive of the nation derives clout from his/her ability to rally the nation behind him and his policies through electoral wins. Mms was an installed pm and that hurt him. Initially his honest reputation gained him some respect. But as his authority over policies and personally decisions was taken away from him, he was weakened and the prestige of pm dwindled. As you seem to indicate that once a really elected pm like modi assumes power he could still restore the prestige. One can only hope for that.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:32 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
Any dimwit can see the damage done party functioning by Indira in 1970s that rreduced the effectiveness of that party and it is steady decline ever since (except for a emotion based win in 1985).

The power of democracy stems from the peoples confidence in elected institutions. Pm being chief executive of the nation derives clout from his/her ability to rally the nation behind him and his policies through electoral wins. Mms was an installed pm and that hurt him. Initially his honest reputation gained him some respect. But as his authority over policies and personally decisions was taken away from him, he was weakened and the prestige of pm dwindled. As you seem to indicate that once a really elected pm like modi assumes power he could still restore the prestige. One can only hope for that.

Why only hope? no constitutional rights of prime minister were taken away, were they? If this fiasco leaves Congress party's future in doldrums it's their loss it won't have any long lasting impact on the country, would it? If it weakens Congress party for good some other party will pick up the slack. Why would it devalue PM post's prestige. Whatever Bush did as Obama's predecessor didn't have any effect on his function nor corrode POTUS's prestige/reputation, did it?

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:41 pm

Cd
Yes it did. The cynicism of people increased and distrust of govt increased according to pundits. These are the soft issues.
In weak nations like Egypt the continuous erosion of prestige is covered up by extreme. Regime brutality for a while. When atmosphere changes, the dormant disregard for govt power will result in Arab springs.

by confuzzled dude Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:59 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
Yes it did. The cynicism of people increased and distrust of govt increased according to pundits. These are the soft issues.
In weak nations like Egypt the continuous erosion of prestige is covered up by extreme. Regime brutality for a while. When atmosphere changes, the dormant disregard for govt power will result in Arab springs.

Oh! Yes let's not forget to include our good neighbor Pakistan. Sonia interpol agent's mission accomplished with this weakening business, right?

by truthbetold Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:31 pm

Cd
Stop drinking and start thinking.

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