Why are senior BJP leaders at odds with Modi?

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

>>>Yeah, right! Indian politics, heck-any politics- if full of well meaning, selfless, conscientious Brutuses who lay awake at nights ruminating over the dangers to the republic.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

BJP is moving towards a congress 1966 situation.  Very likely BJP will split in 4 years.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

>>>Yeah, right! Indian politics, heck-any politics- if full of well meaning, selfless, conscientious Brutuses who lay awake at nights ruminating over the dangers to the republic.

Kris,erudite SuCHers are of the opinion that UPA govt with its machinations indeed did a long lasting damage to PM post's prestige so it is only fair to be leery of such possibility in new govt. as well, right?

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy .... ?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

No, this is a winner-takes-all struggle for leadership. From collective leadership, the BJP is moving to a one-man show like the Congress because Modi - like the Gandhis - is not known to tolerate competing leadership in his organization.

So any leader with a mass base should be afraid. Very afraid. Hence the (ineffectual) attempts at sabotage.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy .... ?

Besides that, there is also the possibility that the politics in India is taking a different and more positive turn, as the democratic process (specifically, in the parliamentary democracy) requires,

(1) giving the job of Gov. Leader (P.M.) to younger people and not those in 70s and 80s;

(2) declaring the name of the potential Govt. Leader (P.M.) by the party before the parliamentary election and not have someone hand-picked, especially through the back-door, after the election;

(3) having more tansparency and accountability and better ability and qualifications in the politicians, especially filling the positions of responsibility, instead of  getting positions based on the party loyalty and as being related to some important family or clan.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy .... ?

Besides that, there is also the possibility that the politics in India is taking a different and more positive turn, as the democratic process (specifically, in the parliamentary democracy) requires,

(1) giving the job of Gov. Leader (P.M.) to younger people and not those in 70s and 80s;

(2) declaring the name of the potential Govt. Leader (P.M.) by the party before the parliamentary election and not have someone hand-picked, especially through the back-door, after the election;

(3) having more tansparency and accountability and better ability and qualifications in the politicians, especially filling the positions of responsibility, instead of  getting positions based on the party loyalty and as being related to some important family or clan.

Seva ji, are you sure about that?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

No, this is a winner-takes-all struggle for leadership. From collective leadership, the BJP is moving to a one-man show like the Congress because Modi - like the Gandhis - is not known to tolerate competing leadership in his organization.

So any leader with a mass base should be afraid. Very afraid. Hence the (ineffectual) attempts at sabotage.

His heavy-handed approach may have worked in Gujarat but at national level with broader landscape and to deal with (in all likelyhood) coalition government he needs to dial back quite a bit to survive, don't you think?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

No, this is a winner-takes-all struggle for leadership. From collective leadership, the BJP is moving to a one-man show like the Congress because Modi - like the Gandhis - is not known to tolerate competing leadership in his organization.

So any leader with a mass base should be afraid. Very afraid. Hence the (ineffectual) attempts at sabotage.

His heavy-handed approach may have worked in Gujarat but at national level with broader landscape and to deal with (in all likelyhood) coalition government he needs to dial back quite a bit to survive, don't you think?

Megalomaniacs are not necessarily rational or pragmatic. The manner in which he rode roughshod over Advani, Murali Manohar Joshi and others, while encouraging non-entities like Arun Jaitley, is not very encouraging.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy .... ?

Besides that, there is also the possibility that the politics in India is taking a different and more positive turn, as the democratic process (specifically, in the parliamentary democracy) requires,

(1) giving the job of Gov. Leader (P.M.) to younger people and not those in 70s and 80s;

(2) declaring the name of the potential Govt. Leader (P.M.) by the party before the parliamentary election and not have someone hand-picked, especially through the back-door, after the election;

(3) having more tansparency and accountability and better ability and qualifications in the politicians, especially filling the positions of responsibility, instead of  getting positions based on the party loyalty and as being related to some important family or clan.

Seva ji, are you sure about that?

Doesn't Modi's selection as the BJP's potential prime ministerial candidate in the coming parliamentary elections meet the above criteria (1-3)?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy .... ?

Besides that, there is also the possibility that the politics in India is taking a different and more positive turn, as the democratic process (specifically, in the parliamentary democracy) requires,

(1) giving the job of Gov. Leader (P.M.) to younger people and not those in 70s and 80s;

(2) declaring the name of the potential Govt. Leader (P.M.) by the party before the parliamentary election and not have someone hand-picked, especially through the back-door, after the election;

(3) having more tansparency and accountability and better ability and qualifications in the politicians, especially filling the positions of responsibility, instead of  getting positions based on the party loyalty and as being related to some important family or clan.

Seva ji, are you sure about that?

Doesn't Modi's selection as the BJP's potential prime ministerial candidate in the coming parliamentary elections meet the above criteria (1-3)?

Are you saying that senior leaders, barring age, won't fit that bill?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Besides that, there is also the possibility that the politics in India is taking a different and more positive turn, as the democratic process (specifically, in the parliamentary democracy) requires,

(1) giving the job of Gov. Leader (P.M.) to younger people and not those in 70s and 80s;

(2) declaring the name of the potential Govt. Leader (P.M.) by the party before the parliamentary election and not have someone hand-picked, especially through the back-door, after the election;

(3) having more tansparency and accountability and better ability and qualifications in the politicians, especially filling the positions of responsibility, instead of  getting positions based on the party loyalty and as being related to some important family or clan.

Seva ji, are you sure about that?

Doesn't Modi's selection as the BJP's potential prime ministerial candidate in the coming parliamentary elections meet the above criteria (1-3)?

Are you saying that senior leaders, barring age, won't fit that bill?

what fitting the bill --- why are the people retired after working in offices etc. when they reach certain age, like even before reaching 70?
If you can't have a clerk or a peon working in an office at 70, then why do you have a P.M. leading the country in his / her 70s or 80s?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:It is obvious to everyone that senior BJP leaders Advani, Jaswant, Sushma and now Murali Manohar Joshi are not happy with Modi's rise. Is it just jealousy or they know something about him that may not bode well for the prestige of the PM post; with all these internal quibbles how long do you think BJP will survive as ruling party, there was a precedent set earlier, was it 30 days for Vajpayee when he was nominated for the PM post first time?

No, this is a winner-takes-all struggle for leadership. From collective leadership, the BJP is moving to a one-man show like the Congress because Modi - like the Gandhis - is not known to tolerate competing leadership in his organization.

So any leader with a mass base should be afraid. Very afraid. Hence the (ineffectual) attempts at sabotage.

His heavy-handed approach may have worked in Gujarat but at national level with broader landscape and to deal with (in all likelyhood) coalition government he needs to dial back quite a bit to survive, don't you think?

Megalomaniacs are not necessarily rational or pragmatic. The manner in which he rode roughshod over Advani, Murali Manohar Joshi and others, while encouraging non-entities like Arun Jaitley, is not very encouraging.

It's in the interest of the senior citizens to avoid the steamroller on a bumpy road.