Re: second test - drop harbhajan

by nevada Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:55 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
nevada wrote:
Dhobi has now become a certified tailender in tests. He should be dropped if he doesn't voluntarily step aside.

He averages 29 outside the subcontinent (which is not bad for a keeper) as opposed to 43 at home. Let's hope he comes good in the 2nd innings and will lead India to victory

I am not expecting him to bat like Gilchrist. A Moin Khan like gritty 40-50 would be good enough.

by nevada Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:03 pm

truthbetold wrote:nevada,

Inside India, India tail starts after Dhoni and outside India, it starts after sachin/laxman. An occasional flourish bu Raina/Yuv Raj/Dhoni can be considered as tail ender contribution.

Well said. That is so true.

by truthbetold Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:23 pm

India's tailenders seem to fall of the cliff in overseas matches. I am sure cricinfo may have published stats on this some time.

Without Sehwag and Gambhir, the tail burden may be too much for Big three (or clutch two, D and L).

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:22 pm

In short IPL has done a lasting damage to Indian cricket - no legit, thretening spinners, no true batsmen (note the consistent test batsmen do not even play ODI), no true wkt keeper. All you have are a bunch of "fast bowlers" who get injured when they bow more than 5 overs.

Pandey, Tiwary, Rohit, Vijay all have become gulli dhanda cricketers. These are not capable or experienced enough to alter their game in a short span (only Gambhir till now).

all in all, there are only 2 of the 5 greats left in the game (in my mind SRT is only great on paper) who still have the application, determination, and the technique+health. And we have not found any replacement for the lost 3 greats.

total screw up of several potential greats.

W H E R E I S T H A T great INDIAN spinner ???

by truthbetold Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:33 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:In short IPL has done a lasting damage to Indian cricket - no legit, thretening spinners, no true batsmen (note the consistent test batsmen do not even play ODI), no true wkt keeper. All you have are a bunch of "fast bowlers" who get injured when they bow more than 5 overs.

Pandey, Tiwary, Rohit, Vijay all have become gulli dhanda cricketers. These are not capable or experienced enough to alter their game in a short span (only Gambhir till now).

all in all, there are only 2 of the 5 greats left in the game (in my mind SRT is only great on paper) who still have the application, determination, and the technique+health. And we have not found any replacement for the lost 3 greats.

total screw up of several potential greats.

W H E R E I S T H A T great INDIAN spinner ???

No great spinner. You can't pin it on IPL. It is less than 3 years old.

"Pandey, Tiwary, Rohit, Vijay all have become gulli dhanda cricketers." This could be because of IPL and the easy money it showers on cricketers of unproven talent.

SRT in the past two years did great batting for India and is certainly one of the all times great in cricket.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:38 pm

well that 62 from yuvraj ought to give him about 25 test matches i reckon.

by nevada Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:well that 62 from yuvraj ought to give him about 25 test matches i reckon.

I wouldn't mind keeping Yuvraj - as a spin bowler who can bat a bit. He is a better spinner than Harbhajan at this time.

by Another Brick Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:29 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:well that 62 from yuvraj ought to give him about 25 test matches i reckon.

to be frank, i've developed a soft corner for yuvraj singh now. agreed, he did not cash in the chances he got in the past, but i am hopeful that he will make these count. kohli, r sharma and vijay are not exactly threatening raina or yuvraj singh. and between these two, i prefer him over raina. raina has not done any better than yuvraj singh has. at least, yuvraj singh is a better bowler and has some centuries (against pak) and a significant 80+ against ENG (three years ago in chennai) to back his selection.

by FreeStyle Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:50 am

I hope Yuvi/Suresh come up with a century in the 2nd innings.......wishful thinking =]

by Another Brick Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:54 am

Another Brick wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:well that 62 from yuvraj ought to give him about 25 test matches i reckon.

to be frank, i've developed a soft corner for yuvraj singh now. agreed, he did not cash in the chances he got in the past, but i am hopeful that he will make these count. kohli, r sharma and vijay are not exactly threatening raina or yuvraj singh. and between these two, i prefer him over raina. raina has not done any better than yuvraj singh has. at least, yuvraj singh is a better bowler and has some centuries (against pak) and a significant 80+ against ENG (three years ago in chennai) to back his selection.

and he does not play stupid shots like raina. look at raina's dismissals against NZ (hahaha) at home and you will know what i mean. the guy is clearly not fit for tests.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:45 am

Harbhajan proved his worth by scoring 46. This helped the Indian team cross 100 and saved the humiliation of totaling under 100. In essenece, Lafbhajan has helped India WIN the goal it set itself.

Lafbhajan, Tenducker Jai Ho.

by nevada Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:56 pm

What a horrible beat down! A day like this was to be expected as this team with an aging batting line up and novice bowlers cannot be realistically expected to retain the # 1 status forever. However, the day has arrived sooner than us fans expected.
Congrats to the England team for a comprehensive victory with a most ruthless performance. This Indian team can win a session or two but lacks the capability to close the deal against this English line up - especially in their own backyard.
Can we get a consolation victory at least or is it too much to ask for? Has Duncan Fletcher learnt any lessons from the mistakes made so far?

by truthbetold Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:49 pm

Humiliating defeat. Indian bowling has been sub par for almost a decade. Bowlers made positive contributions only in friendly local pitches or seaming friendly pitches. Bowling was reduced to a farce on placid, non responsive pitches. Once a batsmen settles down , it is almost impossible for Indian line up to get him out.

India is able to generate good to average batting prospects at regular intervals. It failed to have a continuity in bowling. Till India finds ways to improve its bowling resources, it will be in trouble more often than not.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:11 pm

truthbetold wrote:Humiliating defeat. Indian bowling has been sub par for almost a decade. Bowlers made positive contributions only in friendly local pitches or seaming friendly pitches. Bowling was reduced to a farce on placid, non responsive pitches. Once a batsmen settles down , it is almost impossible for Indian line up to get him out.

India is able to generate good to average batting prospects at regular intervals. It failed to have a continuity in bowling. Till India finds ways to improve its bowling resources, it will be in trouble more often than not.

I think our batting let the bowlers down, sudden collapse in the 1st innings was turning point. May sound like excuses but we have been reduced to a team of 3 bowlers and 3 batsmen, a full strength team would have made it a competitive series, I'm not really upset with our team, I guess not following the match helped quite a bit Smile

I still don't think Eng is that great a team, sure they're a team on the rise but not great yet, I'm afraid these wins may give them false confidence.

by charvaka Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:20 pm

This is the first Test series I have fully tuned out, without watching a single ball so far. And was amused to read this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i50s3sOx8Htg6Eql5OefZ3lvyVDw?docId=CNG.485ea256b6dda68aaee948ab77b3fb95.1f1

You bet the schedule is catching up with India!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:01 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
I think our batting let the bowlers down, sudden collapse in the 1st innings was turning point. May sound like excuses but we have been reduced to a team of 3 bowlers and 3 batsmen, a full strength team would have made it a competitive series, I'm not really upset with our team, I guess not following the match helped quite a bit I still don't think Eng is that great a team, sure they're a team on the rise but not great yet, I'm afraid these wins may give them false confidence.

I will bet Mishra would have been more effective and could have bowled on and on - even if he did not get a wicket. Looking at how Yuvraj was respected more than lafbhajan, mishra would have been a handful. With Sehwag in, Lafbhajan is not necessary. They should fly in Ashwin also (a better bat than Lafbhajan at # Cool

, with Sreesant, Ishant, Praveen, Ashwin and Mishra and Yuvraj and Sehwag to back up, it will be a decent bowling team.

I dont see any other way. Key to win the next 2 tests is to sow doubts in england batting. They KNOW THIS Indian bowling and will not be afraid for another 3 years - unless we change the faces - pronto.

by Another Brick Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:21 am

i wonder if the world cup victory has got anything to do with this loss. the team is probably no more hungry and lacks motivation. remember, we got drubbed by WI after our '83 victory. kirstesn's absence is clearly hurting the team. dhobi may say it is too much cricket, but the main players on ENG series did not play in WI. that's no excuse.

btw, i read in The Indian Express the following:

Those in the dressing room say that around tea time on day 2, with Rahul Dravid at the crease and India about to overtake England’s first innings score of 221 with 6 wickets in hand, the skipper had chosen to take a short nap. However, Yuvraj Singh got out, and Dhoni had to take the field. A casual forward push soon saw him edging the ball to James Anderson, becoming the first of Stuart Broad’s three hat-trick victims.

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