Prof Jean Dreze: The Gujarat Middle, and Narendra Modi's outstanding ability to confuse the public

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 5:41 am

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-gujarat-middle/article5993938.ece

In short, whichever way we look at it, Gujarat looks less like a model State than a “middle State” — far from the bottom in inter-State rankings, but far from the top too. If there is a Gujarat model, then there must also be a Haryana model and perhaps a Karnataka model. Incidentally, Maharashtra does better than Gujarat on all the summary indexes mentioned earlier. Why, then, is Gujarat held as a model and not Maharashtra? Your guess is as good as mine.

If Gujarat is a model, then the real toppers, like Kerala and Tamil Nadu, must be supermodels. Indeed, not only do Kerala and Tamil Nadu routinely come at — or near — the top in rankings of summary development indexes, they also surpass other States in terms of the speed of improvement. For instance, Kerala and Tamil Nadu do better than any other major State in terms of both level and change of the Composite Development Index. Of course, if you believe the touching story whereby Kerala’s achievements are actually based on the Gujarat model, then we are back to square one.
An interesting question arises: how did Gujarat acquire an inflated image? No doubt, this optical illusion partly reflects Narendra Modi’s outstanding ability to confuse the public (with a little help from his admirers in the economics profession). But perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that our perception of India is over-influenced by the large north Indian States — the former “BIMARU” States, which have dismal infrastructure, awful public services, and abysmal social indicators. Gujarat certainly shines in comparison — but so do many other States.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 6:18 am

Rashmun wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-gujarat-middle/article5993938.ece

In short, whichever way we look at it, Gujarat looks less like a model State than a “middle State” — far from the bottom in inter-State rankings, but far from the top too. If there is a Gujarat model, then there must also be a Haryana model and perhaps a Karnataka model. Incidentally, Maharashtra does better than Gujarat on all the summary indexes mentioned earlier. Why, then, is Gujarat held as a model and not Maharashtra? Your guess is as good as mine.

If Gujarat is a model, then the real toppers, like Kerala and Tamil Nadu, must be supermodels. Indeed, not only do Kerala and Tamil Nadu routinely come at — or near — the top in rankings of summary development indexes, they also surpass other States in terms of the speed of improvement. For instance, Kerala and Tamil Nadu do better than any other major State in terms of both level and change of the Composite Development Index. Of course, if you believe the touching story whereby Kerala’s achievements are actually based on the Gujarat model, then we are back to square one.
An interesting question arises: how did Gujarat acquire an inflated image? No doubt, this optical illusion partly reflects Narendra Modi’s outstanding ability to confuse the public (with a little help from his admirers in the economics profession). But perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that our perception of India is over-influenced by the large north Indian States — the former “BIMARU” States, which have dismal infrastructure, awful public services, and abysmal social indicators. Gujarat certainly shines in comparison — but so do many other States.

didn't admin post a whole lot of data some time ago which showed the same thing?

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 6:33 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-gujarat-middle/article5993938.ece

In short, whichever way we look at it, Gujarat looks less like a model State than a “middle State” — far from the bottom in inter-State rankings, but far from the top too. If there is a Gujarat model, then there must also be a Haryana model and perhaps a Karnataka model. Incidentally, Maharashtra does better than Gujarat on all the summary indexes mentioned earlier. Why, then, is Gujarat held as a model and not Maharashtra? Your guess is as good as mine.

If Gujarat is a model, then the real toppers, like Kerala and Tamil Nadu, must be supermodels. Indeed, not only do Kerala and Tamil Nadu routinely come at — or near — the top in rankings of summary development indexes, they also surpass other States in terms of the speed of improvement. For instance, Kerala and Tamil Nadu do better than any other major State in terms of both level and change of the Composite Development Index. Of course, if you believe the touching story whereby Kerala’s achievements are actually based on the Gujarat model, then we are back to square one.
An interesting question arises: how did Gujarat acquire an inflated image? No doubt, this optical illusion partly reflects Narendra Modi’s outstanding ability to confuse the public (with a little help from his admirers in the economics profession). But perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that our perception of India is over-influenced by the large north Indian States — the former “BIMARU” States, which have dismal infrastructure, awful public services, and abysmal social indicators. Gujarat certainly shines in comparison — but so do many other States.

didn't admin post a whole lot of data some time ago which showed the same thing?

What Dreze is saying has been said by a multitude of people. How Dreze is arriving at his conclusion is what sets him apart from others including people like Panini Press.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 6:44 am

i don't know but i do remember him comparing many indices though i don't remember the details. the lady is apparently inviting direct comparisons:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/this-lady-is-better-than-modi/article5934593.ece

but tamilians may not agree. the drinking water problems and the power cuts in chennai are awful.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 6:54 am

Max please be reasonable and get rid of that large pretzel picture. It takes more effort to scroll down if u are reading the forum using a mobile device and if more people started imitating u it would become painful to read this forum. Use the pretzel picture in your profile pic if u wish to.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 6:58 am

TN surely has problems but Guj's problems seem to be worse:

https://such.forumotion.com/t23113-yoginder-alagh-posture-nomics-in-gujarat#154803

by b_A Sat May 10, 2014 12:44 pm

These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 1:04 pm

b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 pm

Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

In fact , on most of the development indices given by Dreze, Gujarat's ranking among states is 9th.

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 1:10 pm

Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

Take away the 20 Billion dollars of Gulf Money and Kerala is nothing! Regarding indicators like education, the foundation stone was laid by the King pre-partition.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 1:14 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

Take away the 20 Billion dollars of Gulf Money and Kerala is nothing! Regarding indicators like education, the foundation stone was laid by the King pre-partition.

Pooh pooh, Gujarat has many more NRI's around in the developed world including North America and Europe. Furthermore as I pointed out Gujarat is number 9 on in the list of states on most of the development indices used by Dreze.

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 1:17 pm

Rashmun wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

Take away the 20 Billion dollars of Gulf Money and Kerala is nothing! Regarding indicators like education, the foundation stone was laid by the King pre-partition.

Pooh pooh, Gujarat has many more NRI's around in the developed world including North America and Europe. Furthermore as I pointed out Gujarat is number 9 on in the list of states on most of the development indices used by Dreze.

Don't divert you talked about Kerala and you do not know squat about that state and talk big. I gave answers to both human dev indices like education (which essentially contributes to most other indices) and also the Gulf money causing economic growth.

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 1:19 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

Take away the 20 Billion dollars of Gulf Money and Kerala is nothing! Regarding indicators like education, the foundation stone was laid by the King pre-partition.

Pooh pooh, Gujarat has many more NRI's around in the developed world including North America and Europe. Furthermore as I pointed out Gujarat is number 9 on in the list of states on most of the development indices used by Dreze.
Don't divert you talked about Kerala and you do not know squat about that state and talk big. I gave answers to both human dev indices like education (which essentially contributes to most other indices) and also the Gulf money causing economic growth.

https://such.forumotion.com/t23261-prof-jean-dreze-the-gujarat-middle-and-narendra-modi-s-outstanding-ability-to-confuse-the-public#155603

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Rashmun wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

Take away the 20 Billion dollars of Gulf Money and Kerala is nothing! Regarding indicators like education, the foundation stone was laid by the King pre-partition.

Pooh pooh, Gujarat has many more NRI's around in the developed world including North America and Europe. Furthermore as I pointed out Gujarat is number 9 on in the list of states on most of the development indices used by Dreze.
Don't divert you talked about Kerala and you do not know squat about that state and talk big. I gave answers to both human dev indices like education (which essentially contributes to most other indices) and also the Gulf money causing economic growth.

https://such.forumotion.com/t23261-prof-jean-dreze-the-gujarat-middle-and-narendra-modi-s-outstanding-ability-to-confuse-the-public#155603

Thank you for confirming your ignorance. Next time learn stuff before you post. I have no interest in reading your biased one sided posts

by Guest Sat May 10, 2014 1:24 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

In fact , on most of the development indices given by Dreze, Gujarat's ranking among states is 9th.

Number 9, in terms of various development indices, in a list of 20 Indian states is haled as the Model State of India? What a joke.

by b_A Sat May 10, 2014 1:49 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

In fact , on most of the development indices given by Dreze, Gujarat's ranking among states is 9th.

Number 9, in terms of various development indices, in a list of 20 Indian states is haled as the Model State of India? What a joke.

where is that list ?
If you have access to that list , do me a favor . Remove all the states that have a mega metropolis and remove small states like Goa. Now, what is the rank of Gujarat ?

by b_A Sat May 10, 2014 5:02 pm

b_A wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
b_A wrote:These kind of analysis always misses one crucial point.
You or me or any tom, dick and harry can be the CM of TN , Maharashtra or Haryana and they will still outperform rest of India in any metric. Why ?
TN has chennai , MH mumbai and Haryana is right next to Delhi.
I am sure if Chennai and surrounding districts are excluded , TN will not be near the top. Same is the case with Mumbai less MH. Take infant mortality for example. People living around Chennai will have better access to health care and immunization than others living in interior state.
Telangana supporters used to carefully exclude Hyderabad and surrounding districts while citing the statistics to show the backwardness. After the split , telangana will zoom to the top of the table in the statistics quoted by the leftist professor ( I meant that Jean Dreze and not whom you were thinking). Not because of dramatic improvement in the ground situation but just because the borders were redrawn. Whoever becomes the Telangana CM will get the "undeserved" credit.

Speaking of "undeserved credit",
People nostalgically recall the Clinton economy days and clamor for Hillary presidency , but he was so lucky to be at the right place at right time. The cold war just ended and the defense expenditure came down. The PC revolution bought down the cost and hugely increased the productivity and the internet has given birth to new industries . Sep 11 attacks had not yet taken place ( the warning signs were ignored) and there were no security costs to the business and government.
It was truly a Goldilocks era. If Hillary becomes president , she won't have it so easy with the he current geopolitical situation and economy.

Your theory does not explain why Kerala outperforming Gujarat.

In fact , on most of the development indices given by Dreze, Gujarat's ranking among states is 9th.

Number 9, in terms of various development indices, in a list of 20 Indian states is haled as the Model State of India? What a joke.

where is that list ?
If you have access to that list , do me a favor . Remove all the states that have a mega metropolis and remove small states like Goa. Now, what is the rank of Gujarat ?

Thundering silence like from another poster here ?

https://such.forumotion.com/t23144-to-max-and-rishi#155228

I will tell you. Probably , all the states like Delhi( and Haryana) , MH,TN,WB,AP and Karnataka are there on top. If you take out Goa too which is a tiny state , Guj is probably 2 nd among 13 with Kerala on top. Am I right ?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 5:15 pm

what is the logic behind taking out states with big metrops? whatever the logic is, the population of ahmedabad is probably only marginally behind chennai. sometimes a smaller state is easier to manage and develop because it has less complex problems.

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 5:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:what is the logic behind taking out states with big metrops? whatever the logic is, the population of ahmedabad is probably only marginally behind chennai. sometimes a smaller state is easier to manage and develop because it has less complex problems.

Do not know about other metros. But Bombay is special. Probably more than 50% of Corporate income tax is filed from Bombay because many pan Indian companies have headquarters there. There is definitely some distortion there.

It is quite possible that even companies that have big operations in Gujarat are headquartered in Bombay.

This Jean Dreze is a guy with an agenda and now has tied up with Teesta Setalvad (another proven fraud) to derail Modi in Varanasi. His so called article is not worth the paper price it is printed on
http://www.scroll.in/article/intellectuals-from-around-india-flock-to-varanasi-to-join-campaign-against-modi/?id=663680

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 5:38 pm

but they are also burdened with larger populations, huge slums, and all the problems including law and order problems that come with it. everybody has an agenda.

by b_A Sat May 10, 2014 5:44 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:what is the logic behind taking out states with big metrops? whatever the logic is, the population of ahmedabad is probably only marginally behind chennai. sometimes a smaller state is easier to manage and develop because it has less complex problems.

Read my original post again. Most of the these indices have parameters like Infant Mortality rate ( large cities have better access to healthcare ,immunization etc) , access to primary education ( more schools in cities) , maybe even girl child education ( again cities will do better here) , access to potable treated water ( Chennai may supply water only once in 3 days but the water quality will be better and less harmful than the water you get from a pond/canal in a village) , availability of electricity etc.

Chennai is definitely more populous than Ahmedabad . It always figured in the top 6 cities in India.

Don't go by this list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_India as it says H'bad and Ahmedabad are bigger than Chennai .
Read the disclaimers and notes.

by b_A Sat May 10, 2014 5:45 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but they are also burdened with larger populations, huge slums, and all the problems including law and order problems that come with it. everybody has an agenda.

We don't know what the parameters in that index are. But usually in Human Development index , access to healthcare ,education etc are included and that will be accessible to the slums also.

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 5:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but they are also burdened with larger populations, huge slums, and all the problems including law and order problems that come with it. everybody has an agenda.

Slums are there everywhere. 50% of India's income tax is a lot more than the extra population it has to shoulder.
The per-capita GDP is only slightly better for a state that claims more than 50% of India's Corporate income tax.

Regarding agendas, I disagree. There are many economists who only go by a comprehensive set of facts and then arrive at a conclusion. They might give importance to some indices compared to others, based on the weights that they give to these parameters for the purpose of overall development.

They do not go to the constituency of the prime ministerial candidate and fight elections. I do not know how you can equate these two. This guy is clearly fishing in trouble waters and is focusing on certain facts only to distort stuff and earn brownie points with Political Opponents of NDA. No wonder the chief supporter of the anti-hindu Congress (the person who posted this) caught on to such articles. In my opinion, given the author's political slant, discussing this guy's worthless article is a waste of time.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 5:56 pm

just sticking a link to a prior related thread here:

https://such.forumotion.com/t14803-gujarat-gdp-growth-and-narendra-modi-s-economic-record

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 5:59 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but they are also burdened with larger populations, huge slums, and all the problems including law and order problems that come with it. everybody has an agenda.
Slums are there everywhere. 50% of India's income tax is a lot more than the extra population it has to shoulder.
The per-capita GDP is only slightly better for a state that claims more than 50% of India's Corporate income tax.

Regarding agendas, I disagree. There are many economists who only go by a comprehensive set of facts and then arrive at a conclusion. They might give importance to some indices compared to others, based on the weights that they give to these parameters for the purpose of overall development.

They do not go to the constituency of the prime ministerial candidate and fight elections. I do not know how you can equate these two. This guy is clearly fishing in trouble waters and is focusing on certain facts only to distort stuff and earn brownie points with Political Opponents of NDA. No wonder the chief supporter of the anti-hindu/anti-NDA Congress (the person who posted this) caught on to such articles. In my opinion, given the author's political slant, discussing this guy's worthless article is a waste of time.

why is the per capita income being only slightly better surprising? they have a much larger population base. everyone has a political slant -- you, me and the rest of the world. every economist who writes in the NY times has a political slant. they all work from the same data, but how they interpret it is informed by their political leanings and life philosophy. why is that any reason to dismiss someone's writing? argue the points.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 6:08 pm

the slum population of MH is 11 million. that is 10% of their total population. the slum population of gujarat is 1.8 million, 3% of their population. who has more complex urban problems to manage?

if you want to point to the business advantages that MH has, it is only fair that you should acknowledge a larger fraction of a poorer population that MH has.

by rawemotions Sat May 10, 2014 6:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but they are also burdened with larger populations, huge slums, and all the problems including law and order problems that come with it. everybody has an agenda.
Slums are there everywhere. 50% of India's income tax is a lot more than the extra population it has to shoulder.
The per-capita GDP is only slightly better for a state that claims more than 50% of India's Corporate income tax.

Regarding agendas, I disagree. There are many economists who only go by a comprehensive set of facts and then arrive at a conclusion. They might give importance to some indices compared to others, based on the weights that they give to these parameters for the purpose of overall development.

They do not go to the constituency of the prime ministerial candidate and fight elections. I do not know how you can equate these two. This guy is clearly fishing in trouble waters and is focusing on certain facts only to distort stuff and earn brownie points with Political Opponents of NDA. No wonder the chief supporter of the anti-hindu/anti-NDA Congress (the person who posted this) caught on to such articles. In my opinion, given the author's political slant, discussing this guy's worthless article is a waste of time.

why is the per capita income being only slightly better surprising? they have a much larger population base. everyone has a political slant -- you, me and the rest of the world. every economist who writes in the NY times has a political slant. they all work from the same data, but how they interpret it is informed by their political leanings and life philosophy. why is that any reason to dismiss someone's writing? argue the points.

Compare Gujarat and Maharashtra in 2002. Gujarat was nothing, was not an automatic choice for many industrialists. That is not true for Bombay. Today they are spoken in the same breath. That is an achievement by itself. I looked at the per capita a little while back and their populations also and felt for a state with Bombay it should have been substantially higher. It just proves the under performance and neglect of other regions of Maharashtra.

Economists do not go to the constituencies and fight elections. I am not sure why you do not get that. It is clear the motivation is much more than what the economists have. I do not agree that all economists write articles with political slants in mind. Their main differences are in their approach to development. Some bigger ones like Amartya Sen are in a different set. But most economists only differ in the type of raw data they give weight to, and in their approach to development. Free market Vs state support to GDP Vs human indices to Low inflation/debt Vs stimulus variety and so on. I feel it is a waste discussing this man's article precisely for his penchant for taking active part in politics, and interest in going to the constituency of the Prime Ministerial candidate and fight elections. His intentions go beyond sound economics OR facts and are suspect. I do not wish to discuss this article further. Feel Free to debate with somebody else.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 6:18 pm

you are naive if you think economists don't have political slants. paul krugman has a distinct leftist slant, greg mankiw was romney's economic advisor. they are both respected in their own way. economics is part simple multivariable calculus and part political science. at least that's how it seems to a layman like me.

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