Re: PVN

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 18, 2014 7:45 pm

wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

by Guest Sun May 18, 2014 7:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

He was a very intelligent, highly educated, experienced and a very wise man. The best PM ever! Is there any doubt about it? Sad at the way he was treated though, esp upon his death.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 18, 2014 7:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

Of course... dig up my thread (idefix can help you)...he was one of the best. Show me someone like him in Congress and I will support him.

But, in case you don't know, he was dumped, humiliated, and ignored by the "High command".

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 18, 2014 7:59 pm

i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.

by Guest Sun May 18, 2014 8:01 pm

Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

He was a very intelligent, highly educated, experienced and a very wise man. The best PM ever! Is there any doubt about it? Sad at the way he was treated though, esp upon his death.

He was outwitted by the Chaddis who convinced him that the masjid would not be demolished. That means he was not as smart as he should have been; the Chaddis were smarter.

by Guest Sun May 18, 2014 8:08 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

He was a very intelligent, highly educated, experienced and a very wise man. The best PM ever! Is there any doubt about it? Sad at the way he was treated though, esp upon his death.

He was outwitted by the Chaddis who convinced him that the masjid would not be demolished. That means he was not as smart as he should have been; the Chaddis were smarter.

But one afternoon, when I had dropped by in the middle of the Kargil war, he opened up on Ayodhya and gave his answers to the common questions listed earlier in this article. Why did he not ask the Central forces to open fire? What were the mobs attacking the mosque shouting, he asked, "Ram, Ram"? What would the soldiers opening fire at them have been chanting to themselves while following my orders to kill maybe hundreds — "Ram, Ram?" Reading the confusion on my face, he said, what if some of the troops turned around and joined the mobs instead? It could have unleashed a fire that would have consumed all of India. Then: why did he not dismiss Kalyan Singh? Mere dismissal, he said, does not mean you can take control. It takes a day or so appointing advisors, sending them to Lucknow, taking control of the state. Meanwhile, what had to happen would have happened and there would have been no Kalyan Singh to blame either. And why did he trust BJP's leaders? "It was Advani," he said, "and he will be made to pay for it." This was obviously a reference to how he had trapped a totally innocent Advani in the Jain hawala case. One thing you wouldn't associate with Rao was forgiveness.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/tearing-down-narasimha-rao/547260/0

---
I don't buy Rao's explanation that the Central forces could have joined the mob which is why he did not allow them to fire at the protesters.

by Guest Sun May 18, 2014 8:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.

He was a freedom fighter. No doubt about his great intellect and abilities, but unfortunately he became a taboo in congress coz he tried to resist the control of sonia (read the last section of wiki). And yeah, he did feel sentimental about the Ayodhya site and probably felt that the muslims were not right in not respecting the sentiments of the hindus and coming to an amicable solution with them. He was sipping coffee and allowed the demolition of the abandoned mosque. He was the PM at the time. He probably felt that it was right. In that sense, he was a BJP guy.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 18, 2014 8:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.

wait...you are comparing Modi on day -3 with PVN's record of 5 years?

Wait for 5 years and let us compare and discuss. PVN was not unanimously selected and he was considered ineffective when he was selected by none other than Pawar, Arjun Singh, etc. At least Modi prove that he has the people's support.

So if you believe in democracy - not the Cong(i) type - then wait for 5 years.

by truthbetold Sun May 18, 2014 8:15 pm

PVN was considered a poor administrator in his term in AP> He was not very decisive and started the process of going to delhi for every issue.

he was reasonably successful as foreign minister but sucked as home minister (Indira was murdered during his tenure).

He was elected as PM after Rajiv's sudden demise as a temporary measure.

He probably felt liberated at that stage and allowed his natural intellect and determination to take over. His primary contribution to India is picking MMS and sticking with him.

But he was very badly treated by Sonia and her gang after his death.

The story of PVN is an example of what good indians can do if they are liberated from dynastic politics. For those few brief years congress of Gandhi came to life.

by confuzzled dude Sun May 18, 2014 8:56 pm

He was despised by many Telugus due to his reluctance to help the state, despite his close relationship with Indira; He was seen as someone as intellect but not a leader (actually was seen as a lapdog of Nehru family). He was borderline communal too given how he let (indirectly) the Babri Masjid demolition take place.

by rawemotions Sun May 18, 2014 8:57 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

He was a very intelligent, highly educated, experienced and a very wise man. The best PM ever! Is there any doubt about it? Sad at the way he was treated though, esp upon his death.

He was outwitted by the Chaddis who convinced him that the masjid would not be demolished. That means he was not as smart as he should have been; the Chaddis were smarter.

But one afternoon, when I had dropped by in the middle of the Kargil war, he opened up on Ayodhya and gave his answers to the common questions listed earlier in this article. Why did he not ask the Central forces to open fire? What were the mobs attacking the mosque shouting, he asked, "Ram, Ram"? What would the soldiers opening fire at them have been chanting to themselves while following my orders to kill maybe hundreds — "Ram, Ram?" Reading the confusion on my face, he said, what if some of the troops turned around and joined the mobs instead? It could have unleashed a fire that would have consumed all of India. Then: why did he not dismiss Kalyan Singh? Mere dismissal, he said, does not mean you can take control. It takes a day or so appointing advisors, sending them to Lucknow, taking control of the state. Meanwhile, what had to happen would have happened and there would have been no Kalyan Singh to blame either. And why did he trust BJP's leaders? "It was Advani," he said, "and he will be made to pay for it." This was obviously a reference to how he had trapped a totally innocent Advani in the Jain hawala case. One thing you wouldn't associate with Rao was forgiveness.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/tearing-down-narasimha-rao/547260/0

---
I don't buy Rao's explanation that the Central forces could have joined the mob which is why he did not allow them to fire at the protesters.

Let me try to understand. It was an abandoned Unused Mosque that was being used ONLY as a temple at that time, and has no specific religious significance to Muslims. So why was it important at all to Muslims. BTW do you support the fact that post its demolition, the Political Islamists had to go around and kill so many Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh and parts of India and also create riots in so many cities in India.

by rawemotions Sun May 18, 2014 9:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.

Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

by Guest Sun May 18, 2014 9:08 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:wish this guy had remained at the helm longer than he did:

He was a very intelligent, highly educated, experienced and a very wise man. The best PM ever! Is there any doubt about it? Sad at the way he was treated though, esp upon his death.

He was outwitted by the Chaddis who convinced him that the masjid would not be demolished. That means he was not as smart as he should have been; the Chaddis were smarter.

But one afternoon, when I had dropped by in the middle of the Kargil war, he opened up on Ayodhya and gave his answers to the common questions listed earlier in this article. Why did he not ask the Central forces to open fire? What were the mobs attacking the mosque shouting, he asked, "Ram, Ram"? What would the soldiers opening fire at them have been chanting to themselves while following my orders to kill maybe hundreds — "Ram, Ram?" Reading the confusion on my face, he said, what if some of the troops turned around and joined the mobs instead? It could have unleashed a fire that would have consumed all of India. Then: why did he not dismiss Kalyan Singh? Mere dismissal, he said, does not mean you can take control. It takes a day or so appointing advisors, sending them to Lucknow, taking control of the state. Meanwhile, what had to happen would have happened and there would have been no Kalyan Singh to blame either. And why did he trust BJP's leaders? "It was Advani," he said, "and he will be made to pay for it." This was obviously a reference to how he had trapped a totally innocent Advani in the Jain hawala case. One thing you wouldn't associate with Rao was forgiveness.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/tearing-down-narasimha-rao/547260/0

---
I don't buy Rao's explanation that the Central forces could have joined the mob which is why he did not allow them to fire at the protesters.
Let me try to understand. It was an abandoned Unused Mosque that was being used ONLY as a temple at that time, and has no specific religious significance to Muslims. So why was it important at all to Muslims. BTW do you support the fact that post its demolition, the Political Islamists had to go around and kill so many Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh and parts of India and also create riots in so many cities in India.

It was not being used as a temple either until Rajiv Gandhi stupidly allowed it to be used as one. I do not support any violence anywhere whether it is by Chaddis or Mullahs or others.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 18, 2014 9:12 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.
Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.

by rawemotions Sun May 18, 2014 9:49 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.
Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.

Meaningless response. I did not tom tom my support/opposition for him after the results. You did and continue to do so!

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 18, 2014 9:53 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.
Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.
Meaningless response. I did not tom tom my support/opposition for him after the results. You did and continue to do so!

we are both discussing an election in which neither of us voted. one of us supported the winner and the other did not. you made a comment that my opinion did not matter. i was reminding you that my opinion is as relevant to the discussion as yours. hence, i think it is a very apposite response to your post. thanks for playing.

by rawemotions Sun May 18, 2014 9:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i know all that. i too don't like dynasty politics, but that doesn't mean i am going to uncritically support the alternative. my point is that it is the congress establishment which produced this guy. i am not sure there is anyone in the BJP including shri 56 inches who measures up to this man's abilities and intellect.
Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.
Meaningless response. I did not tom tom my support/opposition for him after the results. You did and continue to do so!

we are both discussing an election in which neither of us voted. one of us supported the winner and the other did not. you made a comment that my opinion did not matter. i was reminding you that my opinion is as relevant to the discussion as yours. hence, i think it is a very apposite response to your post. thanks for playing.

Now it is you seem to have reading comprehension issues. I specifically said it is waste of time discussing questions of support when he has already won the mandate. Nothing about who supported or opposed prior to elections.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 18, 2014 10:05 pm

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
Just would like to remind you. Nobody cares whether you support or not. It is a waste of time discussing questions of support now, when he has won the mandate. What is more important is how he manages the government formation and puts in place policies that tackle economy, security and so many other key areas of priority for the government

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.
Meaningless response. I did not tom tom my support/opposition for him after the results. You did and continue to do so!

we are both discussing an election in which neither of us voted. one of us supported the winner and the other did not. you made a comment that my opinion did not matter. i was reminding you that my opinion is as relevant to the discussion as yours. hence, i think it is a very apposite response to your post. thanks for playing.
Now it is you seem to have reading comprehension issues. I specifically said it is waste of time discussing questions of support when he has already won the mandate. Nothing about who supported or opposed prior to elections.

if that's the basis for judging the relevance, then the question of support was irrelevant even before the election since neither of us were going to vote. so it is a red herring to begin with.

however, i do think it is relevant even now because we need to be vigilant of how he governs and to make sure that nobody's rights are trampled upon.

by rawemotions Sun May 18, 2014 10:22 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i'd like to remind you in turn that nobody cares whether you supported him or not either. in fact you did not vote. so both of us are shadow boxing.
Meaningless response. I did not tom tom my support/opposition for him after the results. You did and continue to do so!

we are both discussing an election in which neither of us voted. one of us supported the winner and the other did not. you made a comment that my opinion did not matter. i was reminding you that my opinion is as relevant to the discussion as yours. hence, i think it is a very apposite response to your post. thanks for playing.
Now it is you seem to have reading comprehension issues. I specifically said it is waste of time discussing questions of support when he has already won the mandate. Nothing about who supported or opposed prior to elections.

if that's the basis for judging the relevance, then the question of support was irrelevant even before the election since neither of us were going to vote. so it is a red herring to begin with.

however, i do think it is relevant even now because we need to be vigilant of how he governs and to make sure that nobody's rights are trampled upon.

When we discuss, we do influence people and work with our stated positions. Let us not forget that though I may or may not have voted, I can influence many folks who would actually vote. None of this is meaningful after results. As the mandate has been given and he got the votes, now nobody cares.

But anyway, do what you want. I am not going to get involved. But your efforts would be more appropriate in policy critiques OR in debating ideas for tackling the enormous challenges the government faces. I recently saw a NDTV debate on corruption and price rise. It was quite pathetic in terms of the knowledge of the moderator, ability of participants to focus on real issues, and bring out the mistakes in policies during UPA regime.

by truthbetold Mon May 19, 2014 3:44 am

confuzzled dude wrote:He was despised by many Telugus due to his reluctance to help the state, despite his close relationship with Indira; He was seen as someone as intellect but not a leader (actually was seen as a lapdog of Nehru family). He was borderline communal too given how he let (indirectly) the Babri Masjid demolition take place.

I know for a fact pvn did not actively help his own group of followers. If someone asked him a political favor he used to say if they asked me for my opinion I will suggest your name for ministry. He was not particularly interested in people, by that I mean lesser politicians.

He got into a two or three decade long fight with rayalaseema reddy faction. That internal fight was pretty bitter with ysr hurling chappel at him in a public meeting.

by confuzzled dude Mon May 19, 2014 5:40 am

truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:He was despised by many Telugus due to his reluctance to help the state, despite his close relationship with Indira; He was seen as someone as intellect but not a leader (actually was seen as a lapdog of Nehru family). He was borderline communal too given how he let (indirectly) the Babri Masjid demolition take place.

I know for a fact pvn did not actively help his own group of followers. If someone asked him a political favor he used to say if they asked me for my opinion I will suggest your name for ministry. He was not particularly interested in people, by that I mean lesser politicians.

He got into a two or three decade long fight with rayalaseema reddy faction. That internal fight was pretty bitter with ysr hurling chappel at him in a public meeting.

I was not talking about personal favors. Jaipal Reddy faces similar criticism of not extending personal favors. I was talking about helping state economy or jobs. For as long as they stayed at the center did these guys help A.P get any project of any scale.

by Hellsangel Mon May 19, 2014 6:08 am

Comrade, got any more fake RSS videos from your friend Muhammad to post?

by confuzzled dude Mon May 19, 2014 6:15 am

Hellsangel wrote:Comrade, got any more fake RSS videos to post?

Wannabe genius, like the comments suggest, original video was not made in Hindi language it's dubbed version which doesn't mean the content is not accurate. Why would RSS get bad rap all over India if it's genuinely not a communal entity.

by Hellsangel Mon May 19, 2014 6:17 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Comrade, got any more fake RSS videos to post?
Wannabe genius, like the comments suggest, original video was not made in Hindi language it's dubbed version which doesn't mean the content is not accurate. Why would RSS get bad rap all over India if it's genuinely not a communal entity.

Ha ha. Keep cooking up stories. Listen to and watch the video carefully.

The bad rap all over India is the wishful thinking of Comrades like you. If anything your Friday friends have a bad rap all over the world. Ever wondered about that?

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