Bhai Bhai in South India: The unique attempt of South Indian Hindus to achieve H-M synthesis

The concept of 'Bhai-Bhai' wherein an attempt is made to achieve some kind of religious synthesis (in this context between hindus and muslims) has been mocked by people like Max. Max has suggested that North Indians are more interested in this kind of synthesis. For a long time i thought Max was right. There seem to be less sufi shrines in South India as compared to North India. Sufi shrines (tombs of sufi saints) are the only places where both hindus and muslims come together to pray. muslims typically do not go to temples and hindus do not go to mosques. such was my belief.

but further reflection makes me now believe that south indian hindus went even further than north indian hindus to try and achieve some kind of religious synthesis. The absorptive capacity of hinduism needs to be appreciated in this connection. one remembers that hinduism had absorbed budhism peacefully by declaring Budha to be a hindu God (9the avataar of Vishnu).

the way south indian hindus went about trying to achieve religious synthesis is by declaring a female consort of a hindu male deity to be a muslim lady. such a thing in unheard of in north india, but it does exist in south india in many of the temples.

in Andhra Pradesh, Lord Tirupati has two consorts. one of them is the muslim lady Bibi Nancharamma. There are other temples in Andhra Pradesh where Bibi Nancharamma is the female consort. For instance, the Lakshmi Venkateshwara temple in Kadappa:

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/28/stories/2009032851010300.htm

In Tamil Nadu, one of the consorts of Lord Vishnu in the Srirangam Temple is Thuluka Nachiar (literarlly, 'Turkish Princess') who some say is the same person as Bibi Nancharamma. Some hindus seem to think that this concept of a hindu God is demeaning to muslims and islam; actually such people find this demeaning to themselves and to hinduism. They link i have to the Hindu article about the Kadappa temple shows a picture of muslim women clad in burqas worshipping inside this temple. Such a thing is unheard of in north india. These temples with the muslim Goddess seem to represent a bold attempt by some South Indian hindu intellectuals to give unity to hindus and muslims by declaring a consort of a male hindu deity to be a muslim woman. it is similar to declaring the Budha to be a hindu God.

i think all such temples in South India with the muslim Goddess as (one of the) female consort of the male hindu deity should be identified. it could be the subject of research by some PhD scholars. the origin and history of when exactly the muslim Goddess came into being could be one of the topics investigated. the stories about a Sultan's daughter falling in love with Lord Venkateshwara/Vishnu and then going upto the male idol and merging into it is an obvious myth. What must have happened is that there must have been some muslim woman who was a passionate devotee of Lord Vishnu/Venkateshwara--just like Meera Bai or Andal. Some clever hindus decided to declare her a Hindu Goddess with the objective being to achieve religious synthesis and communal harmony.

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the typical legend about Bibi Nancharamma goes like this:

Bibi Nancharamma's Love Story

Devotees believe that Bibi Nanchari is reincarnation of Bhudevi (Mother Earth). You can find a temple devoted to her in one of the avenues of India's largest temple in Srirangam (Tiruchirapally), comprising of 7 avenues in 156 acres.  Srirangam temple is rich in wealth and architecture. Its beauty is described in Silappadikaram, a Tamil epic, in third century. This temple was robbed by several muslim kings, several times. According to the history of Tirumala temple, the main idol of lord Ranganatha was kept here for safe custody.  The main deity Ranganatha can be seen in the temple with Sridevi and Bhudevi on both sides. For devotees it is a feast to the eyes, to see the beauty of the deities decorated with precious ornaments.

Devotees though they worship Bibi Nancharamma, little they knew about her and her love story which culminated in the marriage of Nanchari with Sriranga. The story goes like this. After robbing the temple, Sultan gave the idol of Ranganatha to his daughter, as a toy to play with. Sultan's daughter soon after seeing the idol fell in love with its beauty and always kept it at her side. Upon pleading by priests, Sultan gave back the idol to the temple, while his daughter was asleep. As Sultan's daughter could not live with out seeing Sriranganatha, she went to Srirangam, had darshan of the lord and merged into him. In the temple constructed in her memory, roti, butter and dal are offered to the lord and his consort as offerings which are liked by Tulukka Nachiar (Bibi). Vaikuntha Ekadasi is celebrated as the chief festival at this temple for 20 days.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/telugublog/H7JscikA20o/I7L3dHSncOEJ

the first time i heard about Bibi Nancharamma was through a senior telugu colleague. when i first mentioned this on sulekha, Charvaka would not believe me and started challenging me. He ultimately backed down when some other telugus supported what i was saying. What this indicates is that many south indians do not know of their own rich cultural heritage.

The guardians of religious purity may squirm at the inter-religious coupling. But this, indeed, is a tradition preserved to date in the leading Vaishnav temple of Tamil Nadu - the Srirangam temple in Tiruchirapalli or Trichy. In this huge temple complex (the largest in tamil Nadu, perhaps even India), Lord Vishnu is known as Sri Ranganathaswamy and is depicted as reclining on the thousand-headed serpent of eternity. And one of his main consorts is Thalukka Nachiyar, which apparently means 'respected Muslim lady' in Tamil. [In the most famous temple ceremony] he is supposed to serve her for ten days.

- See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta3/tft/article.php?issue=20130215&page=21#sthash.kH1GGVkB.dpuf

You are wasting your time on this. There won't be any H-M synthesis in India. Even if liberal and sikular Hindus want such a synthesis, the mullahs and insecure M men will oppose any M woman marrying outside the faith. Moreover, such a synthesis is not in the interest of Hindus as Ms don't consider H a proper religion.

If anyone peddles such H-M synthesis in NI, there will be a blood bath. In SI, people will just be annoyed and think of the sikular synthtists as crazies.

Here is a better solution for India - Hindus should get together and minimize internal differences, do to H-M synthesis crazies what Shankara did to Buddhists, educate M women so that they will turn their backs to the 7th century dogma, and provide job opportunities for educated M women. This will delegate CONmen, MullahYama and Laloo to the dust bin and liberate UP and Bihar from BIMARU-backwardness.

aren't you bored with posting the same old shit for over fifteen years? do you have any other interests besides hindu muslim synthesis?

most younger people in my family are moving away from religion which is playing an ever diminishing role in their lives.

besides declaring a muslim woman to be a hindu Goddess, here is another example of an attempt at religious synthesis by what seems to now have been a determined effort by South Indian hindu intellectuals to unite hindus and muslims:

in Kerala, when one goes to worship the temple the Ayappa temple at Sabarimala, the devotee is also supposed to go pay his respects a nearby mosque dedicated to a muslim man known as Vaavar. Now Vaavar must have been a muslim person who became a devotee of Ayappa, but he seems to have been raised to Godhead in as much as he is described as helping Ayappa in fighting against demons. Lord Ayappa himself instructed the king of that region existing long ago to build a mosque in honor of Vavar. And devotees to Ayappa are obliged to pay their respects to Vaavar before paying their respect to Ayappa.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:aren't you bored with posting the same old shit for over fifteen years? do you have any other interests besides hindu muslim synthesis?

most younger people in my family are moving away from religion which is playing an ever diminishing role in their lives.

You are being too harsh. You just have to put up with Childish originality-laccking people.

haven't you ever noticed a 2 year that loves to keep playing the same cartoon or TV ad over and over 10 times a day every day ?

Rashmun wrote:besides declaring a muslim woman to be a hindu Goddess, here is another example of an attempt at religious synthesis by what seems to now have been a determined effort by South Indian hindu intellectuals to unite hindus and muslims:

in Kerala, when one goes to worship the temple the Ayappa temple at Sabarimala, the devotee is also supposed to go pay his respects a nearby mosque dedicated to a muslim man known as Vaavar. Now Vaavar must have been a muslim person who became a devotee of Ayappa, but he seems to have been raised to Godhead in as much as he is described as helping Ayappa in fighting against demons. Lord Ayappa himself instructed the king of that region existing long ago to build a mosque in honor of Vavar. And devotees to Ayappa are obliged to pay their respects to Vaavar before paying their respect to Ayappa.

here is another similar example:


For this reason, the presiding deity at Palani attracts people from all over
the world. Even the orthodox Muslims make regular visits to the Palani temple and
worship the Lord. For them, the Lord is known as Palani Bādshah. Palani āntavar
lights the spiritual path by which the pilgrims walk through in search of their spiritual goal
to attain self realisation.


http://palani.org/saravanan.htm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:You are wasting your time on this. There won't be any H-M synthesis in India. Even if liberal and sikular Hindus want such a synthesis, the mullahs and insecure M men will oppose any M woman marrying outside the faith. Moreover, such a synthesis is not in the interest of Hindus as Ms don't consider H a proper religion.

If anyone peddles such H-M synthesis in NI, there will be a blood bath. In SI, people will just be annoyed and think of the sikular synthtists as crazies.

Here is a better solution for India - Hindus should get together and minimize internal differences, do to H-M synthesis crazies what Shankara did to Buddhists, educate M women so that they will turn their backs to the 7th century dogma, and provide job opportunities for educated M women. This will delegate CONmen, MullahYama and Laloo to the dust bin and liberate UP and Bihar from BIMARU-backwardness.

actually H-M synthesis exists in north india, and not just through the sufi shrines. The greatest hindi poet to have written devotional hindu poetry was arguably a muslim called Raskhan who lived at the time of Akbar and Jahangir and who belonged to the royal mughal family. He was so madly in love with Lord Krishna that he started living in Mathura and Vrindavan and died there. His samadhi (tomb) exists today near Vrindavan. Now, as per hindu tradition, Raskhan was such a great devotee of Lord Krishna that when he died Krishna himself had lighted the funeral pyre which consumed Raskhan's corpse (following which his ashes were buried).

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:aren't you bored with posting the same old shit for over fifteen years? do you have any other interests besides hindu muslim synthesis?

most younger people in my family are moving away from religion which is playing an ever diminishing role in their lives.

as long as communal killings (like what happened in Muzzafarnagar, UP, not too long ago) continue to take place in which hindus and muslims keep slaughtering each other, this subject will continue to be of relevance. The subject will no longer be of much relevance after the fight for communal harmony has been won, but as of now it continues to be a living subject.

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:You are wasting your time on this. There won't be any H-M synthesis in India. Even if liberal and sikular Hindus want such a synthesis, the mullahs and insecure M men will oppose any M woman marrying outside the faith. Moreover, such a synthesis is not in the interest of Hindus as Ms don't consider H a proper religion.

If anyone peddles such H-M synthesis in NI, there will be a blood bath. In SI, people will just be annoyed and think of the sikular synthtists as crazies.

Here is a better solution for India - Hindus should get together and minimize internal differences, do to H-M synthesis crazies what Shankara did to Buddhists, educate M women so that they will turn their backs to the 7th century dogma, and provide job opportunities for educated M women. This will delegate CONmen, MullahYama and Laloo to the dust bin and liberate UP and Bihar from BIMARU-backwardness.

actually H-M synthesis exists in north india, and not just through the sufi shrines. The greatest hindi poet to have written devotional hindu poetry was arguably a muslim called Raskhan who lived at the time of Akbar and Jahangir and who belonged to the royal mughal family. He was so madly in love with Lord Krishna that he started living in Mathura and Vrindavan and died there. His samadhi (tomb) exists today near Vrindavan. Now, as per hindu tradition, Raskhan was such a great devotee of Lord Krishna that when he died Krishna himself had lighted the funeral pyre which consumed Raskhan's corpse (following which his ashes were buried).

of course, Raskhan remains a devotee of Krishna--albeit a very special devotee because of his ardent devotion. It is only in South India that we see muslim people being elevated to the status of hindu godesses or gods (like Bibi Nancharamma/Thuluka Nacchiaar, Vaavar, etc.) in a manner similar to how Budha was declared to be a hindu God.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:You are wasting your time on this. There won't be any H-M synthesis in India. Even if liberal and sikular Hindus want such a synthesis, the mullahs and insecure M men will oppose any M woman marrying outside the faith. Moreover, such a synthesis is not in the interest of Hindus as Ms don't consider H a proper religion.

If anyone peddles such H-M synthesis in NI, there will be a blood bath. In SI, people will just be annoyed and think of the sikular synthtists as crazies.

Here is a better solution for India - Hindus should get together and minimize internal differences, do to H-M synthesis crazies what Shankara did to Buddhists, educate M women so that they will turn their backs to the 7th century dogma, and provide job opportunities for educated M women. This will delegate CONmen, MullahYama and Laloo to the dust bin and liberate UP and Bihar from BIMARU-backwardness.

Vakavaka, did u see the picture in the article at the link:

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/28/stories/2009032851010300.htm

how do u react to seeing muslims inside a hindu temple and praying? do u welcome this or are u opposed to this?

these scenes are only to be seen in south india. north indian muslims do not throng to an actual hindu temple.

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It was a perfect picture of religious harmony on Telugu New Year day. Thousands of Muslim devotees thronged the temple of Devunikadapa on the outskirts of Kadapa town on Tuesday to celebrate Ugadi with fervour.

Several burqa-clad women and men wearing 'namaz ki topi' (skull cap) with children in tow waited in long queues to offer prayers to the deity of Lord Venkateswara at the temple. They believe the entire year would be prosperous if they worship the god at Devunikadapa. Scores of Muslims from nearby Chittoor and Anantapur districts also flocked to the temple to offer prayers.

Mehrunnisa of Rayachoti in Kadapa district said her family has been praying at the temple for the past 30 years.

"Whether it is Allah or Balaji, there is only one supreme power. We strongly believe peace and prosperity will prevail by offering prayers at Devunikadapa temple," she said.

Located 120 km from Tirupati, the temple became famous as it is considered the gateway to the famed Tirumala temple. The word Kadapa was derived from 'Gadapa' which means threshold.

"The devout visit this temple before setting out on Tirumala pilgrimage or worship the Lord during their return journey from Tirumala," Tirupati Rao, a historian, said.

Amir Saheb, an octogenarian from Proddatur, said the 500-year-old temple was constructed during the period of Vijayanagara dynasty.

"Pattu vastrams (silk clothes) were used to be gifted to the presiding deity of Sri Laxmi Venkateswara Swamy on Ugadi," he recalled. Saheb, a regular to the temple, however, complained that the age-old traditions were given a go-by by the archakas now.

Temple priest Srinivasacharyulu told TOI that the tradition of Muslims offering prayers dates back to 300 years. They offer coconuts, jaggery, pulses and ghee to the Lord in huge quantities on this occasion, he said.

The legend has it that Lord Balaji married a Muslim woman Bibi Nancharamma, who was the daughter of a general, Malik Kafur, in 1311 AD, after he was immensely pleased by her devotion. "She was known as 'Thulukka Nachchiyar.' Her idol has a pride of place in Tirumala temple precincts," the priest said.

Mohd Khaleel from Penukonda in Anantapur said he has immense faith in Devunikadapa Lord.

"We offer prayers at Pedda dargah in Kapapa town and later come here to worship Lord Balaji," he said.

Meanwhile, several Muslims also thronged Tirumala shrine to offer prayers on Ugadi day.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Muslims-celebrate-Ugadi-at-Kadapa-temple/articleshow/5692166.cms

The Hindu God in a major South Indian temple eats wheat rotis (and not rice) because of his love for the muslim Goddess who is also one of his consorts. he also wears colored lungis instead of white lungis worn by hindus to please the muslim Goddess:

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ROTIS FOR LORD RANGANATHA OF SRIRANGAM...!!!


Most of us at least once would have visited Sri Rangam and worshipped  Lord Ranganatha.  Here is a small narration of why Rotis are cooked and offered to Lord Ranganatha  which many may not be aware of.

Ours is the only country where Hindus and Muslims happily lived  for centuries.Many Hindus visit Dargahs in the city and in the various states for cure of illness, blessings of Divine souls and saints.  Religious fusion does not stop with saints and their devotees. There are  shrines where the pantheon of Hindu gods and goddesses make room for Muslim consorts and companions.

At the Ranganathaswamy temple in Srirangam, a small sannidhi stands almost unnoticed in the corridor bordering the sanctum sanctorum. You might not even know that it houses the sannidhi of  Thulukka Nachiyar. She was the Muslim princess who became the divine consort of Lord Ranganatha. In Srirangam temple, the presiding deity, Ranganatha, a form of Vishnu, receives a daily offering of rotis, sweet with a heady scent of  ghee  – made with wheat (in contrast to the orthodox rice meal) and even wears colored lungis (not the white cloth worn by Hindus) to please a Muslim princess. This shows how  beloved the Thulukka Nachiyar or Bibi Nachiyar  is to Ranga.  A small painting of the princess hangs in the temple complex.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/afmc-a-batch/PtI7IUAHPFs

In Draupadi Amma temples, found in North Tamil Nadu and parts of Andhra Pradesh, one of the guardians is invariably a Muslim warlord called Muttal Ravuttar (meaning horseman).

- See more at: http://www.mid-day.com/articles/rotis-for-ranganatha/109230#sthash.mUo3VnPF.dpuf



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something to be read at leisure (this concerns details about Muttal Ravuttar and his association with the Draupadi worshipping sect):

http://books.google.com/books?id=kAjvBBzI_2sC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=muttal+ravuttan+draupadi+devotee&source=bl&ots=BfxUPEvfkt&sig=bsE-OBGtmzljJGMDPtcJsQ32ZVk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TqmnU76tOMKdyASZ44DwAg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=muttal%20ravuttan%20draupadi%20devotee&f=false

rashmun.
What happened to Tamil Nadu loving Hindi? Everybody who is anybody came out against Hindi last week.

Will you please talk to your Vellore server and Manamadurai cab driver about why everyone is agaist Hindi tweets?

Kayalvizhi wrote:rashmun.
What happened to Tamil Nadu loving Hindi? Everybody who is anybody came out against Hindi last week.

Will you please talk to your Vellore server and Manamadurai cab driver about why everyone is agaist Hindi tweets?

The politicians do not want hindi but the people of the great state of Tamil Nad want hindi. You are with the politicians while I am with the people. Regarding hindi tweets I am also opposed to asking govt servants even in hindi speaking states to be asked to tweet in Hindi. Hindi fanaticism must be opposed tooth and nail, but hindi as a utilitarian tool which allows people from different parts of the country must be allowed to nurture. Tamils in Tamil Nadu have recognized this which is why many if not most of them are eager to learn hindi.