Andhra Pradesh: Guntur, Tenali, Vijaywada the heartland of renowned hindi writers and poets: Yarlagadda Lakshmi Prasad

Andhra Pradesh
-
Guntur









Hindi Bhavan inaugurated at Nagarjuna University





Staff Reporter







GUNTUR: Guntur - Tenali - Vijayawada was the heartland of renowned
Hindi writers and poets, who got recognition among those who contributed
to promotion of Hindi as a national language, said Hindi Academy
Chairman Yarlagadda Lakshmi Prasad while inaugurating Hindi Bhavan on
Acharya Nagarjuna University Campus on Thursday. Formally declaring the
Rs.55-lakh building open, Mr. Lakhsmi Prasad promised to turn this Hindi
Bhavan as nerve centre of activities related to promotion of the
language in the State. He also promised to sanction Rs.2 lakh for a
library in the new building.



http://www.hindu.com/2008/05/02/stories/2008050255540500.htm

Three years ago, Rashmun copy-pastes this same "news" story and writes: Carvaka, your comments solicited on this news piece. (earlier u were claiming that most people in Guntur and Vijayawada were ignorant of hindi but the news article seems to suggest otherwise).

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/carvaka-hindi-in-guntur-and-vijayawada-838318.htm

My response: Does the news article also suggest that most people of Guntur are well-versed in Human Resource Management? I mean, HRM Bhavan in Nagarjuna University is direct, incontrovertible proof, no?

Ironically, the HRM and Yoga Bhavans seem to have been created by market forces, funded by local rich people. The Hindi Bhavan had no such luck; it was presumably funded by the taxpayer.

Here's a hint to help you wade through the hyperbole that Yarlagadda is paid to spout: if Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada is really the heartland of renowned Hindi writers and poets, you should be able to name a few of those "renowned" people. So who are these renowned writers and poets? Can you name even one without googling? I suspect not.

Rashmun has no answer. Instead, he copy-pastes the same old story after three years.

A year after his original post, he copy-pastes it in another discussion.

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/fun/rajaputhran-learning-hindi-236653.htm

Carvaka: Do you agree with Lakshmi Prasad? Can you, as a Hindi
speaker, name a few of the renowned Hindi writers and poets from
Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada?

Rashmun: I am not a hindi expert. I have read very little hindi
literature and would be hard placed to name renowned hindi writers and
poets from any of the prominent towns in Uttar Pradesh if you asked me
to do so.

Carvaka: The word "renowned" means something... something on the
order of Moliere, Chekov, Shakespeare, Kalidasa, Bhavabhuti, etc. Do you
know ANY Hindi poets or writers from the Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada
region who enjoy similar "renown"?

If a poet is not even known to highly-educated native speakers of the
language like yourself, (s)he can hardly be called "renowned!"
Rashmun never names any of those "renowned" poets and writers. Here is Max's neat summary:

it's also funny how rashmun goes trolling for articles
like this on the net and post them here to advance his thesis that
southern indians are more receptive to hindi today. that may or may not
be true, but articles like this only induce mirth.

Not having learned his lesson, Rashmun pushes the same old tired nonsense yet again.

Charvaka had himself given a few names of people he thought were 'stars' of 20th century hindi literature.

Charvaka: I can list a few modern Hindi poets / writers from
memory: Prem Chand, Maithili Sharan Gupta, Harivansh Rai Bachchan, Sohan
Lal Dwivedi, Suryakant Tripathi 'Nirala', Sumitranandan Pant. It is
fair to say these are the 20th century "stars" of Hindi literature,
although I may have a missed a few prominent names. Not one has anything
to do with Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada.

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/fun/rajaputhran-learning-hindi-236653.htm

------
all the names Charvaka gives are from the hindi speaking belt. but the discussion has moved on since then. for instance, i have given the reference to an article in the past where the writer points out that many 'stars' of hindi literature in the 20th century are to be found outside the hindi speaking belt:

Hindi is
not just the language of film songs, but also of bhajans all over
India. Non-native speakers have written nearly half of the best
literature of Hindi. Not just Ajneya, Ashak, Muktibodh, Sahani,Vaid,
Sobti, and so on, but a whole nation of Punjabis, Gujaratis,
Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Oriyas, and, indeed people from every corner
of the land, have enriched and contributed to the language.

http://www.makarand.com/acad/HindiHainHum.htm

The first telugu name i would give is the founder of hyderabad--Mohammad Quli Qutb Shah.
-----

The book's name is 'Prince Poet Lover Builder: Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah The Founder of Hyderabad'.

Some of the verses penned by Quli would not be found out of place in a contemporary bollywood film. For example this one:

suno log meri prem kahani
ke peela hai rang aashiqi ki nishani

(Listen, people, to the tale of my love
the pallid complexion signifies a lover)

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/personal/carvaka-281302.htm

the second telugu name i would give is that of Sarojini Naidu.

The founder of Hyderabad, Mohammed Quli Qutb Shah(
b.1565; d.1611) was a prince, poet, lover, and a builder.

Mohammed
Quli was a prolific and a versatile poet. He wrote nearly 1,00,000
lines of poetry in Persian, and in every genre of what was later to be
called Urdu.

Secular Element

Before him Dakhni poetry had
been largely religious. Quli introduced the secular element into it. He
talks of nature in its variegated aspects, seasons of the year, flowers,
fruits, vegetables, gardens, social life, customs, and festivals. He
sings of the pleasures of physical love with a rare candour and abandon.
For him there is no difference between a Hindu and a Muslim:

Kufar reet kya hor Islam reet
Har ek reet mein hai ishq ka raaz

(What is the heathen’s creed -- and the Muslim’s.
Every practice is based on the secret of love.)

Further:

Main na janun Kaba o but khana o maikhana koon
Dektha hoon par kahan diktha hai tuj mukh ka safa

(I don’t know the holy Kaaba, the idol’s temple or the tavern,
I look everywhere but can’t see a face as clear as yours)


On love he has some observations of universal truth:

Suno log meri prem kahani
Keh peela hai rang ashiqui ki nishani

(Listen folks to my tale of love,
A palate complexion signifies a lover).

Figures of Speech

Quli often employs the devices of alliteration and onomatopoeia very effectively. Note the following:

Piya soon rat jagi hai so dikthi hai sudhan sarkhush
Madan sarkhush, sayan sarkhush, anjan sarkhush nayan sarkhush

(Oh lady, you have kept the whole night awake with your lover.
Cupid is happy, so are the couch, the collyrium - and your eyes)

Dan dana garja joban badal niman
Kangana jhalkar minj sunao tum

(Youth thunders like a cloud.
Let’s hear the jingle of bangles).

Unfortunately, the rhythm and internal rhyme abounding in his poetry can’t be put across in translation adequately.

Hindi element

Quli
had a sound and extensive knowledge of the Hindi ragas. He mentions
Asavari, Dhanashree, Gauri, Malahar, Kalyan, Basant and Ramkali in his
poems. He declares his preference for music in the following couplet:

Mere sang mil bajaati sankh gaati, Sankhara abhran
Sriraga jo gati istri to mujko bhati hai

(She who plays the conch with me and sings Snakhrabhram,
The one who sings Sriraga -- that woman I like).

Quli’s
choice of subjects was unlimited. The entire range of life in its
variations was covered by him. His idiom sprang from the soil and his
language was the one spoken by the common people in their daily lives.
He has been compared to Nazeer Akbar Abadi of Agra (1740-1830) as a
people’s poet. But Nazeer was a plebian, whereas Quli was a ruler.

His range

Quli
is a poet of sight and sound, of relish and savour, of fragrance and
redolence, of spice and flavour, of sunrise and daylight, of rhyme and
rhythm, of dance and music – of the celebration of life. His poetry
glorifies all phases of biological existence. He rejoices in seasons of
the year, the rhythmic succession of which makes the sum of our
life-spring, monsoon, winter, summer. He celebrates festivals,
birthdays, weddings, New Year Days. On each topic, there is not one
poem, but many. As life’s cycle goes on, he reverts to each of these
recurring events with renewed vigour. He doesn’t get bored with life,
because every aspect of it excites him. There is no pessimism or
cynicism in him. He is an extrovert whose reaction to events is always
positive. He gloats on being the favourite ‘servant’ of the Prophet and
the Imams, which made him a favourite of Fate. He glories in being a
ruler and living a life ease and sensuality. A pure sense of life
pulsates through his writings.

A Misconception

Some people
say that Mohammed Quli was also a poet in Telugu. No such claim has
been substantiated. I have been able to find only three words of Telugu
in his entire anthology – ‘Em Mari em’.


His invocation at the inauguration of the new city of Bhagnagar, has become famous:

Mera sheahar logan soon mamoor kar
Rakhya joon tun darya mein min Ya Sami

(O God, fill my city with people, as you have the river with fish)


Obviously
this prayer was heard and the city now suffers from over- population.
It has one of the highest rates of growth in the country!


For
his legendary love for Bhagmati, and his rich and enchanting poetry,
Mohammed Quli has won a permanent place in the hearts of the people of
the city. An annual festival is held to commemorate him. Generations of
singers have sung his poems. Amongst them the most popular is:

Piya baj pyala piya jai na; piya baj ik til jiya jai na
Kate hain piya bin saburi karo; kaha jai amma kiya jai na
Nahi ishq jis woh bada koodh hai; kadi us say mil baisa jai na
Qutb Shah na do mujh divane ko pand; diwane ko kuch pand diya jai na


(Without the lover one cannot drink the cup!
Without him one cannot live for a moment.
They counsel patience in the absence of love.
Ah! It is easier said than done.
One unacquainted with love is a half-wit!
Don’t ever have anything to do with him.
Don’t give me any advice to a lunatic like me
You can’t din sense into an insane person).


Mohammed
Quli is regarded as the first Urdu poet with an anthology to his
credit. Dr.Zore edited his anthology for the first time in 1940.
Professor Syeda Jaffar brought out a more extensive volume in 1985.

Mohd. Quli’s three successors were also poets. We will meet them next time.

http://narendralutherarchives.blogspot.com/2006/12/prince-poet-lover-builder.html

Charvaka: The poem below sounds very contemporary in its word
choice... I am surprised because most of the old Hindi poetry I've read
from that time (Kabir, Tulsi, Rahim, etc.) doesn't.

-------------

--> the hindi couplet Charvaka is referring to is this one:

suno log meri prem kahani
ke peela hai rang aashiqi ki nishani
(Listen, people, to the tale of my love
the pallid complexion signifies a lover)

the poet is the great Mohammad Quli Qutb Shah--the founder of Hyderabad city who was also an excellent poet.

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/personal/carvaka-281302.htm

Besides Quli Qutb Shah, another very interesting ruler is Ibrahim Adil Shah of the Adil Shahi dynasty. His kingdom included parts of present day Andhra and also parts of present day Karnataka. Some interesting facts about this king:

The fifth king of the Adil Shahi dynasty is known in the Indian history as "Jagadguru Badshah." He tried to bring in cultural harmony, between the Shias and the Sunnis and between Hindus and Muslims through music. He was a great lover of music, played musical instruments, sang and composed praises of Hindu deities Saraswati and Ganapati. He wrote the book Kitab-E-Navras (Book of Nine Rasas) in Dakhani.
It is a collection of 59 poems and 17 couplets. According to his
court-poet Zuhuri, he wrote it to introduce the theory of nine Rasas,
which occupies most important place in Indian aesthetics,
to acquaint people who were only brought up in Persian ethos. The book
opens with prayer to Saraswati, the Goddess of learning. He claimed that
his father was divine Ganapati and mother the Holy Saraswati. For him,
the Tanpura personified learning -- "Ibrahim the tanpurawala became
learned due to grace of god, living in the city of Vidyanagari"
(Vidyanagari is the earlier name of Bijapur.)

Ibrahim II publicly declared that all he wanted was Vidya or
learning, music, and Guruseva (serving the teacher). He was a devotee of
Hazrat Banda Nawaj, the Sufi saint of Gulbarga. He has composed a prayer to him to bestow Vidya or learning and charitable disposition.

He founded a new township Navraspur
to give concrete shape to his musical conception or idea of a musical
city. He had a temple built inside the precincts of the palace which
still exists.

Bijapur attracted best musicians and dancers of the period because
the king was famous as a great connoisseur and patron of music and it
was a unique privilege to get recognition from him.

[edit] Kitabe Nauras


bhaka nyari nyari bhava ek kaha turuk kaha barahaman

Whether a Muslim or a Brahmin with different language—emotion is the same.

nouras soor juga joti ani saroguni yusat sarasuti mata ibrahim parasada bhayi dooni

Oh mother Saraswati! Since you have blessed Ibrahim, his work Navras will last for long

He has composed poems on his wife Chand Sultana, his Tanpura Motikhan and his elephant Atish Khan. He spoke Marathi, Dakhani, Urdu and Kannada languages fluently, and like his predecessors, employed several Hindus in top posts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Adil_Shah_II
-------

Multiple long posts from Rashmun, so let me summarize.

* Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada, which according to the article Rashmun repeatedly peddles, is the heartland of renowned Hindi poets and writers.

Name	Native Telugu	From G-T-V*	Lived in G-T-V for a long time	Wrote major works in Hindi	Relevant to topic
Mohd. Quli Qutb Shah	No	No	No	Kinda	No
Sarojini Naidu	No	No	No	No	No
Ibrahim Adil Shah II	No	No	No	Kinda	No

LOL!

Rashmun wrote:the writer points out that many 'stars' of hindi literature in the 20th century are to be found outside the hindi speaking belt:

Hindi is
not just the language of film songs, but also of bhajans all over
India. Non-native speakers have written nearly half of the best
literature of Hindi. Not just Ajneya, Ashak, Muktibodh, Sahani,Vaid,
Sobti, and so on, but a whole nation of Punjabis, Gujaratis,
Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Oriyas, and, indeed people from every corner
of the land, have enriched and contributed to the language.

http://www.makarand.com/acad/HindiHainHum.htm

Not even the ardent Hindi promoter was shameless enough to add Telugus to that list, but Rashmun is not similarly inhibited. Thanks to the idiot Yarlagadda who is paid to make nonsensical claims about Hindi, Rashmun blindly copy-pastes the same claims every so often while he is unable to name a single renowned Hindi poet from the G-T-V region. Heartland, my foot.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:the writer points out that many 'stars' of hindi literature in the 20th century are to be found outside the hindi speaking belt:

Hindi is
not just the language of film songs, but also of bhajans all over
India. Non-native speakers have written nearly half of the best
literature of Hindi. Not just Ajneya, Ashak, Muktibodh, Sahani,Vaid,
Sobti, and so on, but a whole nation of Punjabis, Gujaratis,
Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Oriyas, and, indeed people from every corner
of the land, have enriched and contributed to the language.

http://www.makarand.com/acad/HindiHainHum.htm

Not even the ardent Hindi promoter was shameless enough to add Telugus to that list, but Rashmun is not similarly inhibited. Thanks to the idiot Yarlagadda who is paid to make nonsensical claims about Hindi, Rashmun blindly copy-pastes the same claims every so often while he is unable to name a single renowned Hindi poet from the G-T-V region. Heartland, my foot.

--> he did mention that people from every corner of India have contributed to the language and he made it clear that the list he had given is not comprehensive by adding the words 'and so on' after giving a few names of hindi writers whose native language was not hindi.

--> Quli Qutb Shah is considered one of the founding fathers of modern hindustani. it is not so easy for any regionalist to dismiss him by claiming that he was a minor poet. you yourself were taken aback when i first posted his hindi couplet. let us read your statement again:

Charvaka: Mohammad Quli was known as a good king, and going by the
accounts I've read, he cared about his people. He was known as a
romantic at heart, and was a scholar in Persian and Urdu. Incidentally,
he was Akbar's contemporary. The poem below sounds very contemporary in
its word choice... I am surprised because most of the old Hindi poetry
I've read from that time (Kabir, Tulsi, Rahim, etc.) doesn't.

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/personal/carvaka-281302.htm

charvaka wrote:Multiple long posts from Rashmun, so let me summarize.

* Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada, which according to the article Rashmun repeatedly peddles, is the heartland of renowned Hindi poets and writers.

Name	Native Telugu	From G-T-V*	Lived in G-T-V for a long time	Wrote major works in Hindi	Relevant to topic
Mohd. Quli Qutb Shah	No	No	No	Kinda	No
Sarojini Naidu	No	No	No	No	No
Ibrahim Adil Shah II	No	No	No	Kinda	No

--> i am not a regionalist like you. all i have to do to prick your regionalist bubble is give names of hindi writers from Andhra. It is not me but Y.Lakshmi Prasad who claims that Guntur-Tenali-Vijaywada have produced well known hindi writers. you can spin all you want to but you cannot get away from the fact that Quli Qutb Shah was a telugu, a major poet, and one of the founding fathers of modern hindustani. Moreover, Quli Qutb Shah did not compose poetry in telugu.
By the way, where was Quli Qutb Shah born? His tomb is in Vijaywada. Could it be that Vijaywada was his native city?

--> the chayawadi poets who you claim are 'renowned figures' in hindi are actually held in something akin to disrespect by some hindi experts i have spoken to. The reason? chayawadi poets place a lot of emphasis on form and style so much so that they tend to sacrifice content. but i see that you will continue to claim that your names are the real 'renowned figures' and the names given by others are not. Is it your contention that you are a hindi expert?

so a bunch of non-telugu guys who lived amidst telugus and wrote some minor works in hindi qualify as telugus writing in hindi?
got it. by this token ramanujan is a british mathematician.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so a bunch of non-telugu guys who lived amidst telugus and wrote some minor works in hindi qualify as telugus writing in hindi?
got it.

is it your contention that a muslim in andhra should be called a non-telugu even if he has lived all his life in andhra?Moreover, Quli Qutb Shah as i am repeatedly pointing out is not a minor poet but a major poet. He is widely regarded to be one of the founding fathers of modern Hindustani language.

i didn't say that. what did he speak as an infant to his mother and father?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't say that. what did he speak as an infant to his mother and father?

i can't answer that. He certainly knew telugu.

it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

--> Should the nawabs of Arcot be considered tamilians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawab_of_the_Carnatic

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

so rajagopalachari knew english and he wrote a commentary of the ramayanam in tamil. does he qualify as an englishman writing in tamil?

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

--> Should the nawabs of Arcot be considered tamilians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawab_of_the_Carnatic

i don't think they consider themselves tamils.

rashmun: i have to give you an A+ for creativity though.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

--> Should the nawabs of Arcot be considered tamilians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawab_of_the_Carnatic

i don't think they consider themselves tamils.

--> and what did they then think of themselves? North Indians?

--> Btw, did you know that-- in the nineteenth century--one of the Nawabs of Arcot constructed the sacred water tank outside the Kapaleeshwar temple in Chennai?

it's a good bet they speak urdu at home. i'd take that as a working definition, i.e. you are linguistically what you grew up speaking at home.

yes i know you have read the article about them in the hindu newspaper.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's a good bet they speak urdu at home. i'd take that as a working definition, i.e. you are linguistically what you grew up speaking at home.

yes i know you have read the article about them in the hindu newspaper.

actually, i read this:

http://www.iis.ac.uk/SiteAssets/pdf/muslim_saints.pdf

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's a good bet they speak urdu at home. i'd take that as a working definition, i.e. you are linguistically what you grew up speaking at home.

yes i know you have read the article about them in the hindu newspaper.

--> the possibility should not be ruled out that they spoke in tamil with their mothers and in urdu with their fathers. another possibility is that they spoke in a mix of tamil and urdu with their parents.

but your claims seem rather silly and labored rashmun. we've all survived this long without this need for a forced blurring of the edges of our cultural identities. if we have problems in india it's not because we have distinct identities. so the bigger question is, why are you so afraid of them?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but your claims seem rather silly and labored rashmun. we've all survived this long without this need for a forced blurring of the edges of our cultural identities. if we have problems in india it's not because we have distinct identities. so the bigger question is, why are you so afraid of them?

--> just one example of the problematic features of regionalism and regional chauvinism:

--> https://such.forumotion.com/t2222-krishna-river-will-flow-full-of-blood-shameless-regional-chauvinist

Rashmun wrote:it is not so easy for any regionalist to dismiss him by claiming that he was a minor poet.

Please observe the table I setup above very carefully. Move back a foot from the screen while observing it, if you need to. There are a couple of considerations that do not apply to him, that are highly relevant to this thread. (Hint: G-T-V.)

Rashmun wrote:It is not me but Y.Lakshmi Prasad who claims that Guntur-Tenali-Vijaywada have produced well known hindi writers.

And you are the one who has been peddling this nonsense for years on CH. Not once, not twice. Challenged both times, failed to produce names both times. Still shameless enough to peddle the same nonsense. If you disagree with Y. Lakshmi Prasad about G-T-V being (hahaha) the heartland of (excuse me, hahaha) renowned Hindi poets and writers, all you needed to do is not peddle it one more time.

Rashmun wrote:the fact that Quli Qutb Shah was a telugu

That is a fact only inside your head. Mohammad Quli did not consider himself a Telugu. He modeled his new city after Isfahan in Persia, because he was proud of the Persian ancestry of the Qutb Shahis. He was not a native Telugu speaker. Considering him a Telugu would be like considering you a Kannadiga because you lived in Karnataka for a few years without learning Kannada.

Rashmun wrote:His tomb is in Vijaywada.

Where did you get this "nugget" of "wisdom"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb_Shahi_Tombs

Sultan Muhammed Quli Qutub Shah's mausoleum
is, by far, the grandest of the Qutub Shahi tombs. Built in 1602 A.D.,
the tomb is situated on a terrace of 65m square and 4m high. A flight of
steps leads to the mausoleum proper, which is 22 m square on the
outside and 11 m square on the inside. There are entrances on the
southern and eastern sides. The tomb itself is situated in a vault below
the terrace. Inscriptions in Persian and the Naskh scripts decorate the tomb.

The said tomb is near Golconda in Hyderabad. Keen observers might note the lack of a Telugu inscription on this "Telugu" king's tomb!

Rashmun wrote:Could it be that Vijaywada was his native city?

Could it be that you are singularly shameless? BTW, it is Vijayawada, not Vijaywada.

Rashmun wrote:Is it your contention that you are a hindi expert?

No.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:got it. by this token ramanujan is a british mathematician.

i haven't paid much attention to the telengana issue, but i am almost
certain that is is not just the cut and dry carving up of regional identities
that you seem to be claiming it is. there are always underlying economic
issues when it comes to strife of this kind. you probably paint it like that because
it makes for a convenient and lazy narrative and it serves your (not so hidden)
purpose of blurring indians' individual cultural identities.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun: i have to give you an A+ for creativity though.

That, and shamelessness. It takes creativity to come up with crap like this once. To do the same thing thrice -- that's just shamelessness.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i haven't paid much attention to the telengana issue, but i am almost
certain that is is not just the cut and dry carving up of regional identities
that you seem to be claiming it is. there are always underlying economic
issues when it comes to strife of this kind. you probably paint it like that because
it makes for a convenient and lazy narrative and it serves your (not so hidden)
purpose of blurring indians' individual cultural identities.

Obviously there are underlying economic issues at play here. Rashmun has another reason for citing Telangana. That is the fact that I am from Telangana. Just like he posts what some critics of Charvaka philosophers said to tar their opponents when he is upset with me, he will post statements like this.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

If it suits Rashmun's story, he can produce a few random links that vouch for Thyagaraja being a Pashto.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:It is not me but Y.Lakshmi Prasad who claims that Guntur-Tenali-Vijaywada have produced well known hindi writers.

And you are the one who has been peddling this nonsense for years on CH. Not once, not twice. Challenged both times, failed to produce names both times. Still shameless enough to peddle the same nonsense. If you disagree with Y. Lakshmi Prasad about G-T-V being (hahaha) the heartland of (excuse me, hahaha) renowned Hindi poets and writers, all you needed to do is not peddle it one more time.

--> I posted several posts on the prevalence of Hindi in Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. One of them was this post. I have posted this twice in the past, and i shall post it again in discussions about hindi in andhra pradesh. The reason for this is as follows:

--> It is possible that some telugu more knowledgeable than you, and less biased than you, will shed more light on hindi writers in guntur-tenali-vijaywada. after all, new posters appear all the time in any online forum.

--> you may keep whining, but do not forget your surpise when confronted with the hindi writing of Quli Qutb Shah for the very first time.

Charvak wrote:

Rashmun wrote:the fact that Quli Qutb Shah was a telugu

That is a fact only inside your head. Mohammad Quli did not consider himself a Telugu. He modeled his new city after Isfahan in Persia, because he was proud of the Persian ancestry of the Qutb Shahis. He was not a native Telugu speaker. Considering him a Telugu would be like considering you a Kannadiga because you lived in Karnataka for a few years without learning Kannada.

--> he may have have been proud of his ancestry, but if he was born and brought up in Andhra then he should be considered a native of Andhra. Particularly since his family had been in A.P. for several generations.

--> On what basis do you make the claim that he was not a native telugu speaker? for instance, do you know what language he would use when speaking to his father and mother?

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:His tomb is in Vijaywada.

Where did you get this "nugget" of "wisdom"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb_Shahi_Tombs

Sultan Muhammed Quli Qutub Shah's mausoleum
is, by far, the grandest of the Qutub Shahi tombs. Built in 1602 A.D.,
the tomb is situated on a terrace of 65m square and 4m high. A flight of
steps leads to the mausoleum proper, which is 22 m square on the
outside and 11 m square on the inside. There are entrances on the
southern and eastern sides. The tomb itself is situated in a vault below
the terrace. Inscriptions in Persian and the Naskh scripts decorate the tomb.

The said tomb is near Golconda in Hyderabad. Keen observers might note the lack of a Telugu inscription on this "Telugu" king's tomb!

--> if you google using the keywords "quli qutb shah vijaywada", the seventh link has the title "The tomb of Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah, Vijayawada, India"

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Could it be that Vijaywada was his native city?

Could it be that you are singularly shameless? BTW, it is Vijayawada, not Vijaywada.

--> It was an honest mistake that i made and i have stated how i made it. But that did not stop you from calling me names in your usual Charvako manner!

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Is it your contention that you are a hindi expert?

No.

--> That did not stop you from giving a list of hindi writers who you thought were renowned, but who are actually considered mediocre by hindi experts i have spoken to.

charvaka wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun: i have to give you an A+ for creativity though.

That, and shamelessness. It takes creativity to come up with crap like this once. To do the same thing thrice -- that's just shamelessness.

--> it is you who is being shameless. even though you have been caught with your pants down on several occasions, you continue with your filth. for instance, only recently you claimed in a response to my post that it is the congress leader Digvijay Singh claims that he is an important leader. but that was false. it was the person who took Digvijay's interview who claimed this and substantiated the claim by giving specific instances of how Digvijay's controversial positions later became the official position of the Congress party. Earlier you had opined that Digvijay is a clown--in the process you only ended up declaring yourself to be a clown.

charvaka wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

If it suits Rashmun's story, he can produce a few random links that vouch for Thyagaraja being a Pashto.

--> Remember what your detractor Seva called you on some occasions: 'Mudboy'!

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i haven't paid much attention to the telengana issue, but i am almost
certain that is is not just the cut and dry carving up of regional identities
that you seem to be claiming it is. there are always underlying economic
issues when it comes to strife of this kind. you probably paint it like that because
it makes for a convenient and lazy narrative and it serves your (not so hidden)
purpose of blurring indians' individual cultural identities.

--> Of course there are underlying economic issues. But that does not mean that UPites and Biharis should get beaten up and accused of taking away jobs from the Marathi Manoos in Maharashtra. Or Biharis getting beaten up in Assam. Or Nagas fighting with Kukis in North East India.

--> Likewise, from a caste angle, it should not be the case that jats should have clashes with dalits in Punjab. Or that OBCs should have clashes with dalits in large parts of India.

--> With respect to Tamil Nadu, it should not be the case that the two tumbler system continues to be in existence. (btw, did you know about this practice?)


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_supreme-court-asks-tamil-nadu-to-get-rid-of-2-tumbler-system_1534265

--> notice that just as there is a regional identity, there is also a
caste identity. i am for the demolition of both regional identity and
caste identity and replacing it with a national identity. At the very least, national identity must come first before regional identity or caste identity or religious identity. this is my opinion.

Rashmun wrote:I have posted this twice in the past, and i shall post it again in discussions about hindi in andhra pradesh. The reason for this is as follows:

--> It is possible that some telugu more knowledgeable than you, and less biased than you, will shed more light on hindi writers in guntur-tenali-vijaywada. after all, new posters appear all the time in any online forum.

OK, go ahead and post. I will call you out on the lies in this article too. And every time you will have to admit that you can't produce even one name to backup the false claims. Also, I will use the table above every time you post this. The peddling of Sarojini Naidu as a Telugu who is a renowned Hindi poet -- that's just too hilarious.

Please post this often; it will be funny to post that table every time in response.

Rashmun wrote:if he was born and brought up in Andhra then he should be considered a native of Andhra.

Hint: Not every native of Andhra is a native Telugu speaker.

Rashmun wrote:On what basis do you make the claim that he was not a native telugu speaker? for instance, do you know what language he would use when speaking to his father and mother?

I do know that the formal court language was Farsi, and the informal language was early Dakhni Urdu. That is what MQQS wrote in. His inscriptions are all in Farsi, including the one on his tomb. It was three generations later that his MQQS's grandson's son-in-law wrote Telugu poetry, and it was considered a huge novelty that he that. So we can be certain that MQQS was not a native Telugu speaker.

Rashmun wrote:if you google using the keywords "quli qutb shah vijaywada", the seventh link has the title "The tomb of Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah, Vijayawada, India"

If you are an honest person, you should introspect on your research methods based on this faux pas. Instead of verifying your information, you begin speculating about his native city being Vijayawada! Even Wikipedia has good info on MQQS. Instead of looking up what you are writing about, you do such an amateurish job of picking any random nonsense and posting it here. You seriously need to rethink your methods, Rashmun.

Rashmun wrote:

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Is it your contention that you are a hindi expert?

No.

--> That did not stop you from giving a list of hindi writers who you thought were renowned, but who are actually considered mediocre by hindi experts i have spoken to.

You said a few times on old CH that my knowledge of Hindi was better than yours. Is that true or false?

charvaka wrote:Multiple long posts from Rashmun, so let me summarize.

* Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada, which according to the article Rashmun repeatedly peddles, is the heartland of renowned Hindi poets and writers.

Name	Native Telugu	From G-T-V*	Lived in G-T-V for a long time	Wrote major works in Hindi	Relevant to topic
Mohd. Quli Qutb Shah	No	No	No	Kinda	No
Sarojini Naidu	No	No	No	No	No
Ibrahim Adil Shah II	No	No	No	Kinda	No

Munni! Kitna badnam hona hai tujhe? Hindi ki bat chod tu, aur jake roza rakh.

yeah good luck with all that rashmun.

Rashmun wrote:i am for the demolition of both regional identity and caste identity and replacing it with a national identity. At the very least, national identity must come first before regional identity or caste identity or religious identity. this is my opinion.

Demolition Man, this has already been tried. And failed spectacularly. You were going to write a blog about it.

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it's like this. saint thyagaraja lived and died in present day TN. but nobody would mistake him for a tamil.

If it suits Rashmun's story, he can produce a few random links that vouch for Thyagaraja being a Pashto.

--> Remember what your detractor Seva called you on some occasions: 'Mudboy'!

Sure, I also remember the names he called you, but that's not pertinent to this discussion.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:I have posted this twice in the past, and i shall post it again in discussions about hindi in andhra pradesh. The reason for this is as follows:

--> It is possible that some telugu more knowledgeable than you, and less biased than you, will shed more light on hindi writers in guntur-tenali-vijaywada. after all, new posters appear all the time in any online forum.

OK, go ahead and post. I will call you out on the lies in this article too. And every time you will have to admit that you can't produce even one name to backup the false claims. Also, I will use the table above every time you post this. The peddling of Sarojini Naidu as a Telugu who is a renowned Hindi poet -- that's just too hilarious.

--> Do you deny that Sarojini Naidu is a telugu? Further, do you deny that Sarojini Naidu has hindi works to her credit? We all know who are the 'renowned' hindi writers according to you. Here is a for the list of names you gave claiming them to be 'renowned' hindi writers.

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:On what basis do you make the claim that he was not a native telugu speaker? for instance, do you know what language he would use when speaking to his father and mother?

I do know that the formal court language was Farsi, and the informal language was early Dakhni Urdu. That is what MQQS wrote in. His inscriptions are all in Farsi, including the one on his tomb. It was three generations later that his MQQS's grandson's son-in-law wrote Telugu poetry, and it was considered a huge novelty that he that. So we can be certain that MQQS was not a native Telugu speaker.

--> The basis of whether he was a native telugu speaker is neither his court language nor his inscriptions. The basis is what was the language he would use when talking to his father or mother in private?

--> For instance, Akbar's court language was persian. All the official documents of his court are also in persian. But Akbar's native language was Turki (Chagatai dialect) in the sense that he would use Chagatai Turki when talking to his family members in private. Chagatai Turki, it should be remembered, was the native language of Babur.

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:if you google using the keywords "quli qutb shah vijaywada", the seventh link has the title "The tomb of Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah, Vijayawada, India"

If you are an honest person, you should introspect on your research methods based on this faux pas. Instead of verifying your information, you begin speculating about his native city being Vijayawada! Even Wikipedia has good info on MQQS. Instead of looking up what you are writing about, you do such an amateurish job of picking any random nonsense and posting it here. You seriously need to rethink your methods, Rashmun.

--> i did try checking up wikipedia but the wikipedia page on Quli Qutb Shah did not tell me about where his tomb is located.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Quli_Qutb_Shah

--> before accusing me of doing an 'amateurish job' at least admit that you were 'shaken and stirred' when i gave the hindi couplet of Quli Qutb Shah. Did i do a 'great job' in that case?

--> Notice that i always admit any mistake i make. But despite this it did not stop you from calling me names for what was an honest mistake.

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Is it your contention that you are a hindi expert?

No.

--> That did not stop you from giving a list of hindi writers who you thought were renowned, but who are actually considered mediocre by hindi experts i have spoken to.

You said a few times on old CH that my knowledge of Hindi was better than yours. Is that true or false?

--> It is true that your hindi is better than mine from whatever i have seen of your hindi.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:i am for the demolition of both regional identity and caste identity and replacing it with a national identity. At the very least, national identity must come first before regional identity or caste identity or religious identity. this is my opinion.

Demolition Man, this has already been tried. And failed spectacularly. You were going to write a blog about it.

--> Mr. President, -I wish to speak to-day, not as a Massachusetts man, nor as a Northern man, but as an American, and
a member of the Senate of the United States. It is fortunate that there is a Senate of the United States; a body not
yet moved from its propriety, not lost to a just sense of its own dignity and its own high responsibilities, and
a body to which the country looks, with confidence, for wise, moderate, patriotic, and healing counsels. It is not
to be denied that we live in the midst of strong agitations, and are surrounded by very considerable dangers to
our institutions and our government. The imprisoned winds are let loose. The East, the North, and the stormy
South combine to throw the whole sea into commotion, to toss its billows to the skies, and disclose its profoundest
depths. I do not affect to regard myself, Mr. President, as holding, or as fit to hold, the helm in this combat with
the political elements; but I have a duty to perform, and I mean to perform it with fidelity, not without a sense of
existing dangers, but not without hope. I have a part to act, not for my own security or safety, for I am looking
out for no fragment upon which to float away from the wreck, if wreck there must be, but for the good of the whole,
and the preservation of all; and there is that which will keep me to my duty during this struggle, whether the sun
and the stars shall appear, or shall not appear for many days. I speak to-day for the preservation of the Union.
"Hear me for my cause." I speak to-day, out of a solicitous and anxious heart for the restoration to the country
of that quiet and harmonious harmony which make the blessings of this Union so rich, and so dear to us all. These
are the topics I propose to myself to discuss; these are the motives, and the sole motives, that influence me
in the wish to communicate my opinions to the Senate and the country; and if I can do any thing, however little, for
the promotion of thse ends, I shall have accomplished all that I expect...

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dwebster/speeches/seventh-march.html

This can go on forever, and I know that's just what you want, now that Yarlagadda's lies which you have peddled thrice over three years have been exposed to be just that. You hope to make this a long slugfest to distract from your folly. I won't let that happen.

If you have any names of Telugu poets from Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada who are renowned poets in Hindi, now is the time to give their names. (Actually, three years ago was the right time to give their names, but better late than never.) Otherwise, feel free to slink away with your tail between your legs, and copy-paste the same "news" again in a year, KV-style, hoping and praying that either I am not around, or am too busy, or too tired of your shenanigans to call you out.

Anything short of names of people from G-T-V who are renowned Hindi poets will not attract a response from me. Have a good evening.

charvaka wrote:This can go on forever, and I know that's just what you want, now that Yarlagadda's lies which you have peddled thrice over three years have been exposed to be just that. You hope to make this a long slugfest to distract from your folly. I won't let that happen.

If you have any names of Telugu poets from Guntur-Tenali-Vijayawada who are renowned poets in Hindi, now is the time to give their names. (Actually, three years ago was the right time to give their names, but better late than never.) Otherwise, feel free to slink away with your tail between your legs, and copy-paste the same "news" again in a year, KV-style, hoping and praying that either I am not around, or am too busy, or too tired of your shenanigans to call you out.

Anything short of names of people from G-T-V who are renowned Hindi poets will not attract a response from me. Have a good evening.

---> how do we agree on the meaning of the word 'renowned'. for instance, my understanding is that several of the names in your list of 'renowned' hindi writers are actually mediocre writers.

--> secondly, i have pointed out why i posted that link a third time over a period of three years in the context of a debate on hindi in south india. it is because it is possible that some knowledgable and unbiased telugu may appear on this forum and corroborate and give more information on Yarlagadda's statement. It is even possible that Yarlagadda himself may appear on this forum if he sees that he is constantly being called a liar by someone publicly.

--> Feel free to continue on with the name calling though.

i notice that Yarlagadda has his own website:

http://www.yarlagaddalakshmiprasad.com/index_1.html