Uppili style facts (inaccuracies) & dual tongued BJP

This spectre haunting social conservatives throughout the land, is known as 'love jihad' — the idea that Muslim men are allegedly attempting to woo non-Muslim, especially Hindu women, with the end result being (a) marriage and/or voluntary conversion, or (b) sexual exploitation and/or forced conversion. Now, let us pause and notice how (b) is of course criminal while (a) is legal. The concept of 'love jihad' itself seems very ambiguous. We would argue that this ambiguity is deliberate.

The argument that one hears in social media and on the street, and one that is unlikely to be articulated by political representatives publicly, basically boils down to this - "They do not allow 'their' women to marry us, but they want to take 'our' women". The obvious problem with this line of argument, besides its factual inaccuracy (Muslim female-Hindu male couples are less common, but hardly unheard of) is rather simple: what about the autonomy and individual rights of the women in question? Maybe they have an opinion or two about their own lives. Maybe a few likes and dislikes as well.

Mostly the broader Sangh Parivar, including the BJP, is seen pushing this issue, often exploiting the emotions attached to it from medieval Indian history, as they are allegedly doing right now in the communal cauldron of western Uttar Pradesh. But other parties are not above playing such retrogressive cards when it suits them as well.

On one hand, the BJP talks about having a Universal Civil Code (UCC), and indeed that is a liberal reform as a UCC does not entail homogenised rituals, but simply forces the state to not have different laws for individuals based on religious identity.

Yet, the same BJP speaks in dual tongues when it is seen whipping up passions against Hindu-Muslim marriages. It also cannot bring itself to explicitly distance itself from those who would deny Muslims accommodation in their neighbourhood and those who would threaten to deport them to Pakistan at the drop of a hat. Now, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has a helpline for Hindu parents concerned about, amongst other things, their daughters being allegedly harassed by Muslim men. Who here believes that “complaints” will not also be against genuine relationships?

The BJP government’s views on a UCC are right, but they sorely lack the credibility to move on this issue. Muslim feminists are caught between being seen as supporting the orthodox mullahs on one hand and the BJP on the other.

confuzzled dude wrote:

This spectre haunting social conservatives throughout the land, is known as 'love jihad' — the idea that Muslim men are allegedly attempting to woo non-Muslim, especially Hindu women, with the end result being (a) marriage and/or voluntary conversion, or (b) sexual exploitation and/or forced conversion. Now, let us pause and notice how (b) is of course criminal while (a) is legal. The concept of 'love jihad' itself seems very ambiguous. We would argue that this ambiguity is deliberate.

The argument that one hears in social media and on the street, and one that is unlikely to be articulated by political representatives publicly, basically boils down to this - "They do not allow 'their' women to marry us, but they want to take 'our' women". The obvious problem with this line of argument, besides its factual inaccuracy (Muslim female-Hindu male couples are less common, but hardly unheard of) is rather simple: what about the autonomy and individual rights of the women in question? Maybe they have an opinion or two about their own lives. Maybe a few likes and dislikes as well.

Mostly the broader Sangh Parivar, including the BJP, is seen pushing this issue, often exploiting the emotions attached to it from medieval Indian history, as they are allegedly doing right now in the communal cauldron of western Uttar Pradesh. But other parties are not above playing such retrogressive cards when it suits them as well.

On one hand, the BJP talks about having a Universal Civil Code (UCC), and indeed that is a liberal reform as a UCC does not entail homogenised rituals, but simply forces the state to not have different laws for individuals based on religious identity.

Yet, the same BJP speaks in dual tongues when it is seen whipping up passions against Hindu-Muslim marriages. It also cannot bring itself to explicitly distance itself from those who would deny Muslims accommodation in their neighbourhood and those who would threaten to deport them to Pakistan at the drop of a hat. Now, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has a helpline for Hindu parents concerned about, amongst other things, their daughters being allegedly harassed by Muslim men. Who here believes that “complaints” will not also be against genuine relationships?

The BJP government’s views on a UCC are right, but they sorely lack the credibility to move on this issue. Muslim feminists are caught between being seen as supporting the orthodox mullahs on one hand and the BJP on the other.

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standpoint-the-deliberate-ambiguity-of-love-jihad-2011727

Kris wrote:
>>>> Would you agree that the summary of this is as follows?

Kris wrote:
1) Love-jihad is a lie. Does not happen. Other people are making this up.

Kris wrote:
2) Muslim women are free to whomever they want, regardless of the man's religion.

Kris wrote:
3) UCC is a bad thing in general.

The BJP government’s views on a UCC are right, but they sorely lack the credibility to move on this issue

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:
>>>> Would you agree that the summary of this is as follows?

No

Kris wrote:
1) Love-jihad is a lie. Does not happen. Other people are making this up.

For the most part

Kris wrote:
2) Muslim women are free to whomever they want, regardless of the man's religion.

I personally know a few accounts of these. It doesn't mean all of them are absolutely free. Since you did not mention Hindus, Do you think Hindu women do not have any pressure?
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/honour-killing-parents-murder-girl-for-marrying-her-boyfriend-arrested/459822-62.html

Kris wrote:
3) UCC is a bad thing in general.

The BJP government’s views on a UCC are right, but they sorely lack the credibility to move on this issue

What does the above line mean?

Kris wrote:
1) To any extent, this love-jihad is a sick idea. Do you agree?

Kris wrote: 2) I also have some personal knowledge on this count and have seen women severely stifled. The question is, does this religion allow men but forbids women to do the same?  If Hindu women have pressure on this count it needs to be dealt with separately. Besides, the article is not about Hindu women and I am not speaking on their behalf. 

Kris wrote: 3)  I have no idea where BJP stand on this. The question is on UCC as a concept.

I am not trying to out you on the spot, but rather trying to determine whether we have some common premise to discuss this further. If there isn't one, we are not going to come to any agreement. Other than that, these issues also form the underpinnings of why many Islamic societies are different from societies making social progress. We can deny this, but it is what it is.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:
1) To any extent, this love-jihad is a sick idea. Do you agree?

I think we are taking this out of context, yes it is a sick idea but it is not the main theme or norm of those marriages; there will always be a few misguided people in every community so you can't blame everyone for the machinations of a few. This kind of thing happens with love marriages among Hindus too where they harass the girl for dowry.

confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140824/nation-politics/article/%E2%80%98love-jihad%E2%80%99-be-poll-plank-uttar-pradesh-bjp
-> Here we go .. BJP choosing communal platform yet again..

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140824/nation-politics/article/%E2%80%98love-jihad%E2%80%99-be-poll-plank-uttar-pradesh-bjp
-> Here we go .. BJP choosing communal platform yet again..

Fantastic.....Great...

Hey... why do you (guys) whine.  Look back...did I tell BJP SHOULD play openly communal card.  After all, YOU guys called it Communal all these years, and now why do you whine when they call your bluff...

This is a well thought out strategy....this will Unify all hindus and open begin to realize the covert threat posed by the Koranists.  Mark my words...The message from UP will reverberate in Maharashtra and Haryana and J & K... Yes...you will be shocked when BJP becomes the main opposition there - and perhaps, even win a majority. Ask me how.

Keep up the unification of Hindus - Amit ji.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140824/nation-politics/article/%E2%80%98love-jihad%E2%80%99-be-poll-plank-uttar-pradesh-bjp
-> Here we go .. BJP choosing communal platform yet again..

Fantastic.....Great...

Hey... why do you (guys) whine.  Look back...did I tell BJP SHOULD play openly communal card.  After all, YOU guys called it Communal all these years, and now why do you whine when they call your bluff...

This is a well thought out strategy....this will Unify all hindus and open begin to realize the covert threat posed by the Koranists.  Mark my words...The message from UP will reverberate in Maharashtra and Haryana and J & K... Yes...you will be shocked when BJP becomes the main opposition there - and perhaps, even win a majority. Ask me how.

Keep up the unification of Hindus - Amit ji.

I'm afraid this will only increase honor killings of their daughters by Hindu parents and will further divide the country.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

BJP, in respect to iSlam, has dumped issue of love-jihad. Openly comes out in support of hindu women and to protect them from minority men...

Now this is straight talk..

....After breathing fire over 'love jihad', BJP today dropped mention of it in the party's political resolution but continued to rake up the issue of alleged crime by men of minority community against Hindu women

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

BJP, in respect to iSlam, has dumped issue of love-jihad. Openly comes out in support of hindu women and to protect them from minority men...

Now this is straight talk..

....After breathing fire over 'love jihad', BJP today dropped mention of it in the party's political resolution but continued to rake up the issue of alleged crime by men of minority community against Hindu women

Why, those idiots couldn't find any stats to backup their lies?