Shoot the messenger

The Congress government seems to be readying itself for Anna Hazare's fast with the same tactics they have used when they prepared for Baba Ramdev. In order to take attention away from the demand for accountability and to change the topic of conversation from the huge scams the current government has spawned, they launch an elaborate campaign of "shoot the messenger." First they discredited Baba Ramdev, which was easy to do because Ramdev was already known to be a fraud (of the "I can cure AIDS" variety). At that time, Congress netas suggested Anna Hazare was the good guy, and Ramdev the bad guy.

Now that Hazare did not back down from his demand that the Lokpal's ambit include the Prime Minister and other senior officials, they want to go after Hazare. For their sake, I wish they had found something bigger than a two-lakh-rupee trust-money-used-for-birthday scandal to smear Hazare with. Their own government ministers stands accused of robbing the exchequer of two lakh crores by the government's duly appointed watchdog, and that is just one of their many scams. Yet, they complain loudly about two lakh rupees misused for a birthday.

Such cynical politics is not surprising when it comes from a political party like the Congress or the BJP. It is interesting though, when educated Indians mindlessly toe the line of those parties (Congress now, BJP in the case of Gujarat, Mangalore, etc.) Which reminds me... perhaps my guruvu-gaaru should change the Congress motto from "garibi hatao" to "mine is one crore times bigger than yours."

Unlike Ramdev, Anna Hazare is made of sterner stuff. Hope he is fully prepared for midnight or day light arrests and lathi charge.

One intended consequence of congress's efforts to squeeze Anna Hazare out of Delhi could be that the anto corruption movement could move across the nation. jai Prakash Narayan's movement was a nation wide movement. He toured many parts of India to rousing reception. Anna should take his movement to each of nations 50 to 100 major metropolis over the coming days.

He should first tour the major Tier1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities, hold meetings and let people understand the gravity of the issues and about himself.

Then announce a nationwide hunger strike and see how the govt. can stop it.

charvaka wrote:Their own government ministers stands accused of robbing the exchequer of two lakh crores by the government's duly appointed watchdog, and that is just one of their many scams. Yet, they complain loudly about two lakh rupees misused for a birthday.

Your logic is flawed. Instead of two lakh rupees, if he had misappropriated two crores, would Hazare's crime be more serious? Or the other way around, if instead of two lakh crores, A Raja had diddled the exchequer of only two crores, would Hazare's diddle assumed greater significance?

The point is that Hazare wants to lead a moral crusade on behalf of the entire civil society against corruption. Someone aspiring that leadership mantle has to have a flawless character and evidence of misappropriation of trust money for personal purposes - whether it is to the tune of 2 lacs or 2 thousand - does erode the man's credibility. You'd see that too if instead of reflexively shooting the Congress messenger (blinded by hatred for the Empress), you would focus on the message about Hazare.

Hazare could have set a new precedent with a jointly drafted Lok Pal bill, if only he'd approached the issue in the spirit of collaboration. Instead, he pissed off the entire establishment (notwithstanding the BJP's outward show of support) with his intemperate attacks on the political class and personal attacks on the PM in recent days.

I can see this megalomaniacal streak in him which would prompt him to spend 2 lacs from the trust's funds on his personal aggrandisement. Most offputting is his tendency to refer to himself in the third person.. like Mogambo-khush-hua.."Anna doesn't back down", "Anna doesn't fear the government" etc. I mean, who talks like that in real life?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Your logic is flawed. Instead of two lakh rupees, if he had misappropriated two crores, would Hazare's crime be more serious?

Are you accusing Hazare of committing a crime? That is more than Congress has accused him of. Let me use Rashmun Method to make it clearer to you: if Hazare had been guilty of a crime, the government would have already prosecuted him for it. Since the government did not, we can conclude that he did not commit a crime.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Someone aspiring that leadership mantle has to have a flawless character

I don't think Hazare is perfect. Nobody is. In the arena of politics, that is truer than usual. If after months of effort, all that Congress can come up with to tar him is that his trust misspent 2 lakh rupees, he is way ahead of practically everyone in politics. If he can galvanize support among people, I'd rather have him lead a campaign than make the perfect the enemy of the good and wait in perpetuity for a perfect leader to show up, even as the country is robbed of 1,00,00,000 times that amount of money in just one scam.

Here is another way to think about it. Give me the names of a few actual people who have the flawless character as well as the credibility and recognition to lead an anti-corruption campaign in Hazare's stead. Rashmun said he couldn't name any one, then he had some names, but because I laughed he won't tell me. Perhaps you can do better.

If we don't have alternative leaders of requisite moral character to satisfy Manish Tiwari, Digvijay Singh, Rashmun, and you, I am fine if Hazare continues to lead the campaign in the meanwhile.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:I can see this megalomaniacal streak in him which would prompt him to spend 2 lacs from the trust's funds on his personal aggrandisement.

The retired judge did not really question his personal integrity; the accusation is that the trust money was used to felicitate him on his birthday. Presumably, his supporters felicitated him using that money.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Most offputting is his tendency to refer to himself in the third person.. like Mogambo-khush-hua.."Anna doesn't back down", "Anna doesn't fear the government" etc. I mean, who talks like that in real life?

I am sure there are a hundred irritating things about him. Hunger-strike (aka emotional blackmail) as political tool being one of them. I also have serious concerns about his ability to manage large organizations; from the allegations regarding his trusts, it is clear that he is an awful administrator and doesn't know how to keep his subordinates from taking advantage of his bad management. But all said, he is a person who has galvanized support in the country for a campaign against corruption. And the government is using shoot-the-messenger tactics in order to distract the media from the real issue, which is the all-pervasive corruption in our government. Like I said in my first message here, I can understand the government's political motivations to attack the messenger. I was merely wondering why educated Indians who are not members of the government or the ruling party would toe that party line.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

charvaka wrote:Their own government ministers stands accused of robbing the exchequer of two lakh crores by the government's duly appointed watchdog, and that is just one of their many scams. Yet, they complain loudly about two lakh rupees misused for a birthday.

Your logic is flawed. Instead of two lakh rupees, if he had misappropriated two crores, would Hazare's crime be more serious? Or the other way around, if instead of two lakh crores, A Raja had diddled the exchequer of only two crores, would Hazare's diddle assumed greater significance?

The point is that Hazare wants to lead a moral crusade on behalf of the entire civil society against corruption. Someone aspiring that leadership mantle has to have a flawless character and evidence of misappropriation of trust money for personal purposes - whether it is to the tune of 2 lacs or 2 thousand - does erode the man's credibility. You'd see that too if instead of reflexively shooting the Congress messenger (blinded by hatred for the Empress), you would focus on the message about Hazare.

Hazare could have set a new precedent with a jointly drafted Lok Pal bill, if only he'd approached the issue in the spirit of collaboration. Instead, he pissed off the entire establishment (notwithstanding the BJP's outward show of support) with his intemperate attacks on the political class and personal attacks on the PM in recent days.

I can see this megalomaniacal streak in him which would prompt him to spend 2 lacs from the trust's funds on his personal aggrandisement. Most offputting is his tendency to refer to himself in the third person.. like Mogambo-khush-hua.."Anna doesn't back down", "Anna doesn't fear the government" etc. I mean, who talks like that in real life?

Desperate criticism. There is a difference between 2 lakhs spent on a birthday celebration vs 2 crore celebration. There is a difference between 2 crore corruption vs 2 lakh crore corruption. One can be naive and argue there are all the same. They are not. Legal arguments do not make sense in public arena. Anna's supporters over zealous celebrations do not fall in the same category as country economy hurting 2 lakh crore corruption. Arguing other wise betrays inability to differentiate between big and real problems vs small and inconsequential errors.

charvaka wrote:Are you accusing Hazare of committing a crime?

Me?? Sir, perish the thought. I'm a simple man and not a "we". Anyway, maybe you haven't been following the news in India that closely. Just fyi, notwithstanding Hazare's loud, somewhat ludicrous explanation that he never celebrated his birthday and equally disingenuous justification that the money had been returned to the trust (after all the uproar), the Sawant Commission held him responsible for violations of various sections of the Bombay Public Trust Act which constitute offences under Sections 66 and 67 of the Bombay Public Trust Act.

charvaka wrote:That is more than Congress has accused him of.

I don't particularly care what the Congress accuses him of - their views are incidental to mine. OTOH, it increasingly appears that the Congress party's words and deeds are your frame of reference in any debate. Which is a pity.

charvaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Someone aspiring that leadership mantle has to have a flawless character

I don't think Hazare is perfect. Nobody is. In the arena of politics, that is truer than usual. If after months of effort, all that Congress can come up with to tar him is that his trust misspent 2 lakh rupees, he is way ahead of practically everyone in politics.

Yes, but the problem is that he is NOT in politics. By calling all politicians as crooks, he has positioned himself as being above politics and politicians. For someone who's placed himself on a high pedestal, as some kind of an incorruptible archangel launching a moral crusade against those corrupt pols, his integrity and reputation are everything. And the Justice Sawant commission report puts a question on that. OTOH, if he wants to be in politics, let him do so legitimately, by contesting the elections.

charvaka wrote:the accusation is that the trust money was used to felicitate him on his birthday. Presumably, his supporters felicitated him using that money.

Haha..I suggest you brush up on the nuances of managing a trust, and the statutory fiduciary responsibilities involved, before toeing the Hazare line and repeating such ridiculous defences.

charvaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Most offputting is his tendency to refer to himself in the third person.. like Mogambo-khush-hua.."Anna doesn't back down", "Anna doesn't fear the government" etc. I mean, who talks like that in real life?

I am sure there are a hundred irritating things about him.

No, this goes beyond being annoying. It betrays his messianic complex. His entire stance in this crusade has been that of my-way-or-the-highway, indicating his intolerance for others' opinions. And if one goes into the content of his "bill", it really amounts to setting up an extra-constitutional authority without checks or balances. For someone who fetishizes democracy in other contexts, I'm surprised by your support for Hazare & Co's entirely undemocratic enterprise. So I guess hatred for Empress trumps even the fetish for democracy.

charvaka wrote:I was merely wondering why educated Indians who are not members of the government or the ruling party would toe that party line.

I too wonder about educated Indians blindly following self-appointed "leaders" who never won any election but want to legislate unilaterally; who harbor messiah-complexes and seek to lead moral crusades with less than a spotless personal record. Specific to you, I can't also help wonder if the only reason for such behavior -- despite harboring reservations about said messiah's proclivity for emotional blackmail and dubious leadership and administrative abilities -- is only an irrational, visceral hatred for the government in power. So anyone who appears to challenge the government, be it a clown baba, a self-righteous messiah or who have you, suddenly becomes an icon worth supporting, irrespective of the substance of the challenge or the credibility of the challenger.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:violations of various sections of the Bombay Public Trust Act which constitute offences under Sections 66 and 67 of the Bombay Public Trust Act.

One more time: are they criminal offenses?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:lead moral crusades with less than a spotless personal record.

I notice you have no recommendations of people with spotless personal records to lead the charge against corruption in India. So now that you have established that Hazare is bad, India gets to live with the government that its own watchdog said robbed it of 2 lakh crore rupees in just one scam.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:an irrational, visceral hatred for the government in power.

I understand why it might seem so to you. After all, that is what my views regarding the BJP look like to its blind supporters.

BTW, do you support the arrest of Hazare?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
The point is that Hazare wants to lead a moral crusade on behalf of the entire civil society against corruption. Someone aspiring that leadership mantle has to have a flawless character and evidence of misappropriation of trust money for personal purposes - whether it is to the tune of 2 lacs or 2 thousand - does erode the man's credibility.

By the same logic, the only people who are allowed to point a finger at Anna Hazare, talk about his shortcomings, accuse him of anything, etc. should be people with 'flawless character'. That would instantly disqualify pretty much everybody in the government from saying anything untoward about him. LOL!

charvaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:violations of various sections of the Bombay Public Trust Act which constitute offences under Sections 66 and 67 of the Bombay Public Trust Act.

One more time: are they criminal offenses?

It is truly a sorry commentary on the followers of this messiah if his moral authority to lead the crusade against corruption comes from striking a distinction between a crime under the IPC versus a violation of some other Indian law. How different is your defence from what Nitin Gadkari's for Yeddy's nepotism?

charvaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:lead moral crusades with less than a spotless personal record.

I notice you have no recommendations of people with spotless personal records to lead the charge against corruption in India.

Sharp eyesight you have. Yes, I'm not in the nominations business.

charvaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:an irrational, visceral hatred for the government in power.

I understand why it might seem so to you. After all, that is what my views regarding the BJP look like to its blind supporters.

Ok, I believe you - I have no idea what your views look like to the blind supporters of any party. Please also understand that disagreeing with your opinions doesn't make anyone a blind supporter of any party.

charvaka wrote:BTW, do you support the arrest of Hazare?

I've no idea about the reasons for his arrest, for me to take a stance on it. But Hazare's rhetoric of the last couple of days were around how he would never accept any police restrictions on his protest. If that was what led to his arrest, I don't have any sympathy for him. He needs to realize that he's not above the law.