Will BJP get a majority in Rajya Sabha?

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Apparently, Amit Shah's new mission is to get enough MLAs elected in J&K, Jharkhand, UP, Bihar and WB to increase BJP's tally of MPs in Rajya Sabha. This is one way to marginalize the influence of Sonia-CONartists, TM-CONartists, Laloo-ites, SP-MullahYamas, etc., in obstructing the bills from passage.

So, if BJP has a majority in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, what will happen to Sikularism?

Will Hindutva take the center stage?
 
Garibi Hatao?

Hmm......

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Apparently, Amit Shah's new mission is to get enough MLAs elected in J&K, Jharkhand, UP, Bihar and WB to increase BJP's tally of MPs in Rajya Sabha. This is one way to marginalize the influence of Sonia-CONartists, TM-CONartists, Laloo-ites, SP-MullahYamas, etc., in obstructing the bills from passage.

So, if BJP has a majority in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, what will happen to Sikularism?

Will Hindutva take the center stage?
 
Garibi Hatao?

Hmm......

India will turn into another Pakistan with upper caste Hindus bombing mosques, churches and burning, raping low caste people all over India.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Apparently, Amit Shah's new mission is to get enough MLAs elected in J&K, Jharkhand, UP, Bihar and WB to increase BJP's tally of MPs in Rajya Sabha. This is one way to marginalize the influence of Sonia-CONartists, TM-CONartists, Laloo-ites, SP-MullahYamas, etc., in obstructing the bills from passage.

So, if BJP has a majority in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, what will happen to Sikularism?

Will Hindutva take the center stage?
 
Garibi Hatao?

Hmm......

India will turn into another Pakistan with upper caste Hindus bombing mosques, churches and burning, raping low caste people all over India.

truthbetold wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Apparently, Amit Shah's new mission is to get enough MLAs elected in J&K, Jharkhand, UP, Bihar and WB to increase BJP's tally of MPs in Rajya Sabha. This is one way to marginalize the influence of Sonia-CONartists, TM-CONartists, Laloo-ites, SP-MullahYamas, etc., in obstructing the bills from passage.

So, if BJP has a majority in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, what will happen to Sikularism?

Will Hindutva take the center stage?
 
Garibi Hatao?

Hmm......

India will turn into another Pakistan with upper caste Hindus bombing mosques, churches and burning, raping low caste people all over India.

CD

before you draw your imaginary parallels between religions,  do you know of any other religion that bombs other religious structures in so many countries?  Think through before you make such wild predictions.

Incidents of violence against Christians have occurred in nearly all parts of India, it has largely been confined to north, central, and western India, in the states of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, and the capital area of New Delhi

In June 2000, four churches around India were bombed. In Andhra Pradesh, church graves were desecrated. A church in Maharashtra was ransacked.[6] In September 2008, two churches were partly damaged in Kerala.[7][8] Christian leaders described the events of September 2008 as deliberate acts by anti-socials and denied any religious motive in the attacks.

truthbetold wrote:CD,

So according to your wisdom, Hindus in India will unleash anti christian violence in the coming months and years?  We will all be alive to see how your wisdom will unfold.

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:CD,

So according to your wisdom, Hindus in India will unleash anti christian violence in the coming months and years?  We will all be alive to see how your wisdom will unfold.

Not wisdom, that was based on their track record and recent surge of such events with BJP at the helm.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:CD,

So according to your wisdom, Hindus in India will unleash anti christian violence in the coming months and years?  We will all be alive to see how your wisdom will unfold.

Not wisdom, that was based on their track record and recent surge of such events with BJP at the helm.

Muslims in India who convert to Christianity have frequently been subjected to intolerance,[10] harassment, intimidation, and attacks by Muslims.[11] In Jammu and Kashmir, the only Indian state with a Muslim majority, a Christian convert and missionary, Bashir Tantray, was killed, allegedly by militant Islamists in 2006.[12]

The Government of Jammu-Kashmir in 2010 asked Jim Borst, a Dutch Catholic missionary, who was at that time one of the two members of the Institute Mill Hill missionary in the Kashmir valley, to leave the valley. Borst was also in charge of two schools there. According to Islamic officials the charges were forced conversions,[13] similar accusations of complicity in ″luring Muslims″ to convert to Christianity were thrown against pastor Chander Mani Khanna and Gayoor Messah also. Nevertheless the spokesperson for Indian Christians, John Dayal rejected the claim that any forced conversion took place. John Dayal stated, "A fact finding team which went to Srinagar in the wake of the arrest of Rev Khanna, and interviewed Church personnel, Ulema, school authorities and the police, found no evidence of force or fraud in baptisms that have been carried out over a period of time. Each baptism has been proved to be voluntary".[14]

In January 2012, Sharia court of Kashmir announced 'Fatwa' against Christian schools in Kashmir. It asked three priests to leave valley with the charge that they were "luring Muslims to Christianity". The court not only instructed Jammu and Kashmir government to monitor such activities in future but to also take over the management of the Christian missionary schools.[14]

In April 2012, a Christian couple was arrested with that accusation of "promoting enmity". The policemen later explained that the arrest was made "as a precaution to prevent tensions in the area." However, their children tell a completely different tale: "Our parents went to Srinagar on April 16 last year to attend a wedding. The next day, while doing some shopping at the market, talking to a salesman our father said he was Christian and they were insulted, beaten and finally arrested by local police."[15]

In May 2012, in a premeditated arson attack Muslims set fire to a Catholic church.[16]

Concerning these issues Father Mathew Thomas, pastor of Holy Family commented "With these gestures, the Muslim community is trying to intimidate the Christian minority. But there are not even 400 Christians in Srinagar: I appeal to Omar Abdullah, chief minister, a Muslim who studied in Christian institutions. He must protect the entire population of Srinagar, including minorities."[16]

A Muslim mob with Imprimatur of Local Imam, in April 2013, attacked a group of seven British Christians including five women and two children, who were living in Shivpora for about four years. Muslims hurled stones at their vehicles and house. The reason they claimed was to stop conversion to Christianity.[10]

On February 5, 2013 eight Americans and four Koreans were attacked by an Islamic mob at 10 pm because of allegations of forced conversions propagated from a Facebook page. Some of the ruffians threw stones at the walls outside the hotel where the tourists were staying, but owing to the intervention of policemen, injuries were avoided. The Facebook page showed an image of three oriental women and first line of a long caption stated, "Attention Kashmir!!! Islam in Kashmir is under attack, Christians trying to convert Muslims

A Christian priest, K. K. Alavi in Manjeri, a 1970 convert from Islam,[18] thereby raised the ire of his former Muslim community and received many death threats. An Islamic terrorist group named "The National Development Front" actively campaigned against him.[19] Muslim clerics are known to hold up Alavi as a prime example of an enemy of Islam even during prayers.[19] In that area traditional Christianity is considered blasphemy.[19]

In the southern state of India, Kerala which has an ancient pre-Islamic community of Eastern Rite Christians, Fundamentalists chopped off the hand of Professor T.J.Joseph due to allegation of blasphemy of prophet.[20] On 4 July 2010, a group of eight people in a Maruti Omni waylaid the Professor near his home at Muvattupuzha. Joseph was pulled out of his car along with his sister and 85-year old mother. They were attacked with knives, swords, axes and home-made bombs. Professor Joseph’s right hand was chopped off at the wrist and thrown away. He also suffered wounds to other parts of his body. His left hand from the wrist also has been severely damaged. His sister and aged mother of 85 years old also suffered injuries.[21][22][23] According to police, the attack was carried out by an eight member team consisting of Savad of Asamannoor, Pareeth of North Vazhakkulam, Shobin of Kothamangalam, Nazar of Aluva, Shajil of Muvattupuzha, Shamsuddin of Perumbavoor, Shanvas and Jamal.[24]

Hellsangel wrote:You really should try reading the links you post, Comrade.

One says:

Muslims in India who convert to Christianity have frequently been subjected to intolerance,[10] harassment, intimidation, and attacks by Muslims.[11] In Jammu and Kashmir, the only Indian state with a Muslim majority, a Christian convert and missionary, Bashir Tantray, was killed, allegedly by militant Islamists in 2006.[12]

The Government of Jammu-Kashmir in 2010 asked Jim Borst, a Dutch Catholic missionary, who was at that time one of the two members of the Institute Mill Hill missionary in the Kashmir valley, to leave the valley. Borst was also in charge of two schools there. According to Islamic officials the charges were forced conversions,[13] similar accusations of complicity in ″luring Muslims″ to convert to Christianity were thrown against pastor Chander Mani Khanna and Gayoor Messah also. Nevertheless the spokesperson for Indian Christians, John Dayal rejected the claim that any forced conversion took place. John Dayal stated, "A fact finding team which went to Srinagar in the wake of the arrest of Rev Khanna, and interviewed Church personnel, Ulema, school authorities and the police, found no evidence of force or fraud in baptisms that have been carried out over a period of time. Each baptism has been proved to be voluntary".[14]

In January 2012, Sharia court of Kashmir announced 'Fatwa' against Christian schools in Kashmir. It asked three priests to leave valley with the charge that they were "luring Muslims to Christianity". The court not only instructed Jammu and Kashmir government to monitor such activities in future but to also take over the management of the Christian missionary schools.[14]

In April 2012, a Christian couple was arrested with that accusation of "promoting enmity". The policemen later explained that the arrest was made "as a precaution to prevent tensions in the area." However, their children tell a completely different tale: "Our parents went to Srinagar on April 16 last year to attend a wedding. The next day, while doing some shopping at the market, talking to a salesman our father said he was Christian and they were insulted, beaten and finally arrested by local police."[15]

In May 2012, in a premeditated arson attack Muslims set fire to a Catholic church.[16]

Concerning these issues Father Mathew Thomas, pastor of Holy Family commented "With these gestures, the Muslim community is trying to intimidate the Christian minority. But there are not even 400 Christians in Srinagar: I appeal to Omar Abdullah, chief minister, a Muslim who studied in Christian institutions. He must protect the entire population of Srinagar, including minorities."[16]

A Muslim mob with Imprimatur of Local Imam, in April 2013, attacked a group of seven British Christians including five women and two children, who were living in Shivpora for about four years. Muslims hurled stones at their vehicles and house. The reason they claimed was to stop conversion to Christianity.[10]

On February 5, 2013 eight Americans and four Koreans were attacked by an Islamic mob at 10 pm because of allegations of forced conversions propagated from a Facebook page. Some of the ruffians threw stones at the walls outside the hotel where the tourists were staying, but owing to the intervention of policemen, injuries were avoided. The Facebook page showed an image of three oriental women and first line of a long caption stated, "Attention Kashmir!!! Islam in Kashmir is under attack, Christians trying to convert Muslims

And also says:

A Christian priest, K. K. Alavi in Manjeri, a 1970 convert from Islam,[18] thereby raised the ire of his former Muslim community and received many death threats. An Islamic terrorist group named "The National Development Front" actively campaigned against him.[19] Muslim clerics are known to hold up Alavi as a prime example of an enemy of Islam even during prayers.[19] In that area traditional Christianity is considered blasphemy.[19]

In the southern state of India, Kerala which has an ancient pre-Islamic community of Eastern Rite Christians, Fundamentalists chopped off the hand of Professor T.J.Joseph due to allegation of blasphemy of prophet.[20] On 4 July 2010, a group of eight people in a Maruti Omni waylaid the Professor near his home at Muvattupuzha. Joseph was pulled out of his car along with his sister and 85-year old mother. They were attacked with knives, swords, axes and home-made bombs. Professor Joseph’s right hand was chopped off at the wrist and thrown away. He also suffered wounds to other parts of his body. His left hand from the wrist also has been severely damaged. His sister and aged mother of 85 years old also suffered injuries.[21][22][23] According to police, the attack was carried out by an eight member team consisting of Savad of Asamannoor, Pareeth of North Vazhakkulam, Shobin of Kothamangalam, Nazar of Aluva, Shajil of Muvattupuzha, Shamsuddin of Perumbavoor, Shanvas and Jamal.[24]

truthbetold wrote:Can you tell us how many Christians were killed by hindu zealots in Vajpayee rule and  how many more were killed in different states ruled by BJP?  While you are at it can you add numbers for similar incidents in non BJP states?

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Can you tell us how many Christians were killed by hindu zealots in Vajpayee rule and  how many more were killed in different states ruled by BJP?  While you are at it can you add numbers for similar incidents in non BJP states?

Didn't BJD has alliance with BJP in Orissa, for a longtime?

confuzzled dude wrote:
Selective reading disorder? Where did those links deny what I had said about right-wing Hindu zealots acts? and what's with this tendency to infer/twist any criticism of extremist Hindu savagery as a support of atrocities committed by other communities?

truthbetold wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Can you tell us how many Christians were killed by hindu zealots in Vajpayee rule and  how many more were killed in different states ruled by BJP?  While you are at it can you add numbers for similar incidents in non BJP states?

Didn't BJD has alliance with BJP in Orissa, for a longtime?

IS that all the data you have?

confuzzled dude wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_violence_in_India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Malegaon_bombings

US State Department[edit]

truthbetold wrote:CD

RSS is a bigoted organization.  It has indulged in acts of violence.  But do not confuse RSS with hindus.  Do not confuse India with a religion. Despite its weakness, it is still one of the best developing economies and thriving democracy.  Its democratic institutions are stronger than some of the western developed nations. It is not a UK or US but it is no less in democratic adherence than italy.
It is far ahead of Turkey, south africa, and brazil. 

Your attempts to portray that India will suddenly turn into an anti christian or anti muslim or something similar to pakistan is an utterly baseless canard. That is part of the failed pseudo secular argument against right wing hindu leaning BJP electoral fortunes. 

RSS poses a danger. So did congress corruption and incompetence. Indian people chose BJP. It is a risk.  But it is a risk indian people are forced to take given the circumstances (including the possibility of Rahul gandhi's leadership). 

India can easily throw away extreme govts in future as it did in the past. So relax and enjoy your stay in India.

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:CD

RSS is a bigoted organization.  It has indulged in acts of violence.  But do not confuse RSS with hindus.  Do not confuse India with a religion. Despite its weakness, it is still one of the best developing economies and thriving democracy.  Its democratic institutions are stronger than some of the western developed nations. It is not a UK or US but it is no less in democratic adherence than italy.
It is far ahead of Turkey, south africa, and brazil. 

Your attempts to portray that India will suddenly turn into an anti christian or anti muslim or something similar to pakistan is an utterly baseless canard. That is part of the failed pseudo secular argument against right wing hindu leaning BJP electoral fortunes. 

RSS poses a danger. So did congress corruption and incompetence. Indian people chose BJP. It is a risk.  But it is a risk indian people are forced to take given the circumstances (including the possibility of Rahul gandhi's leadership). 

India can easily throw away extreme govts in future as it did in the past. So relax and enjoy your stay in India.

I do not confuse RSS with all Hindus nor Jihadists with all Muslims; that trait belongs to our resident patriots. I was responding to Vakavaka's musings "Will Hindutva take the center stage?" And the fact that Venkaiah Naidu and other ministers are feeling proud of their RSS roots doesn't bode well for NDA or India. Our supreme orator Modiji appears to be tongue tied when it comes to right wing activities.

truthbetold wrote:
"I do not confuse RSS with all Hindus" 


your posts do not support that statement. "India will turn into another Pakistan with upper caste Hindus bombing mosques, churches and burning, raping low caste people all over India."  Is that not your statement?

truthbetold wrote:CD

RSS is a bigoted organization.  It has indulged in acts of violence.  But do not confuse RSS with hindus.  Do not confuse India with a religion.

confuzzled dude wrote:Does Murthal incident tell us something?

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/murthal-highway-mass-gang-rape-jat-agitation-haryana-national-media-arnab-goswami-mahishasur-barkha-dutt-the-tribune-smriti-irani/story/1/9266.html