Semitization of Hinduism

by confuzzled dude Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:19 pm

That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:31 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/

>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:08 am

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.

I hope so too but I haven't seen any erudite SuCH scholar let alone moderate Hindus condemn this lunacy.

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:17 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
I hope so too but I haven't seen any erudite SuCH scholar let alone moderate Hindus condemn this lunacy.

>>>Moderate Hindus are capable of that, but you have a better shot at eliciting condemnation from them when there is an honest assessment of the root cause. If that is swept under the rug, the end result is going to be the opposite i.e. driving more moderates to the right. In fact, the fundamentalism is substantially due to this syndrome, more so than an ideological buy-in into any militant version of Hinduism or any monolithic Hinduism. It has already turned political.

by southindian Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:25 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/

Conversion is Islamic and Christian evil and Hindus should stay away from it. Hindus should stop doing an Islamic/Christian practice.

by pravalika nanda Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:42 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.

** what on earth does this have to do with hinduism? those people live in a democracy and have civil rights, don't they? they have the right to choose to convert and they should be allowed to make that choice whether or not we like it. just like no one stopped you from eating meat or leaving india you can't stop them from leaving the hindu fold. it's a democracy, dammit. i can't believe you do not see that we're impinging on their civil rights. what is wrong with you?

by pravalika nanda Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:48 pm

southindian wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
Conversion is Islamic and Christian evil and Hindus should stay away from it. Hindus should stop doing an Islamic/Christian practice.

you have to be pretty enlightened to be a hindu. when you take away the social elements of hindu society you're left with a set of thoughts and ideals that are meant to allow you to be your own master and gain enlightenment. other religions are about things like the sheperd, the sheep, messengers and gods etc - really about following your master. that type of thing is ideal for people who're very poor or not very bright.

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:59 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
** what on earth does this have to do with hinduism? those people live in a democracy and have civil rights, don't they? they have the right to choose to convert and they should be allowed to make that choice whether or not we like it. just like no one stopped you from eating meat or leaving india you can't stop them from leaving the hindu fold. it's a democracy, dammit. i can't believe you do not see that we're impinging on their civil rights. what is wrong with you?

>>>My turn: what on earth does your post, replete with details on my diet habits and leaving india and others' civil rights, have to with my post? Or are you responding to someone else?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:12 pm

UCC is the answer

Get all 4 major groups together and get a consensus UCC within a specific time. Dump all the holy books to the prayer room in every house, and throw the UCC at everyone outside the house.

by pravalika nanda Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:05 pm

Kris wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
** what on earth does this have to do with hinduism? those people live in a democracy and have civil rights, don't they? they have the right to choose to convert and they should be allowed to make that choice whether or not we like it. just like no one stopped you from eating meat or leaving india you can't stop them from leaving the hindu fold. it's a democracy, dammit. i can't believe you do not see that we're impinging on their civil rights. what is wrong with you?
>>>My turn: what on earth does your post, replete with details on my diet habits and leaving india and others' civil rights, have to with my post? Or are you responding to someone else?

I am talking to you. It is not a religious matter when the most desperate of the poor are manipulated by these strongmen into giving up their newly-chosen faith. In a democracy, it becomes an issue of denying people their basic civil rights and dignity. You cannot justify it or soften it by saying that it is not an unexpected reaction to proselytization.

by pravalika nanda Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:09 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:UCC is the answer

Get all 4 major groups together and get a consensus UCC within a specific time. Dump all the holy books to the prayer room in every house, and throw the UCC at everyone outside the house.

oh will there be a room where we can dump all the secular-elites and their molly-coddled minorities?

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:09 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
I hope so too but I haven't seen any erudite SuCH scholar let alone moderate Hindus condemn this lunacy.

>>>Moderate Hindus are capable of that, but you have a better shot at eliciting condemnation from them when there is an honest assessment of the root cause. If that is swept under the rug, the end result is going to be the opposite i.e. driving more moderates to the right. In fact, the fundamentalism is substantially due to this syndrome, more so than an ideological buy-in into any militant version of Hinduism or any monolithic Hinduism. It has already turned political.

Oh I see it's never a fault of these Hindu fundamentalist goons of RSS, Bajrang Dal, VHP etc., and moderate Hindus are merely reacting or driven by the ground realities unlike moderate Muslims whom we always want to be unbiased (and set high moral standards) no matter what the root cause was.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:09 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:[
Oh I see it's never a fault of these Hindu fundamentalist goons of RSS, Bajrang Dal, VHP etc., and moderate Hindus are merely reacting or driven by the ground realities unlike moderate Muslims whom we always want to be unbiased (and set high moral standards) no matter what the root cause was.

You mean to say all those muslim-apologist secularists and the liberatis and the RSS- criticising media are NOT hindus ?

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:41 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
I hope so too but I haven't seen any erudite SuCH scholar let alone moderate Hindus condemn this lunacy.

>>>Moderate Hindus are capable of that, but you have a better shot at eliciting condemnation from them when there is giving you what an honest assessment of the root cause. If that is swept under the rug, the end result is going to be the opposite i.e. driving more moderates to the right. In fact, the fundamentalism is substantially due to this syndrome, more so than an ideological buy-in into any militant version of Hinduism or any monolithic Hinduism. It has already turned political.
Oh I see it's never a fault of these Hindu fundamentalist goons of RSS, Bajrang Dal, VHP etc., and moderate Hindus are merely reacting or driven by the ground realities unlike moderate Muslims whom we always want to be unbiased (and set high moral standards) no matter what the root cause was.

>>>I am giving you what my take is on why Hinduism is become more militant. As Uppili says in his post, there are Hindus in the media who are questioning this. If there is no honest discussion of root causes, the problem is going to get worse than you think. Not only will moderate hindus not show disapproval, they will in fact start joining the ranks of the religious right (in the Indian context). This polarization tendency is common when these issues become politicized. It is happening already in India as I said before. We see it in this country as well.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:53 pm

Kris wrote:
>>>I am giving you what my take is on why Hinduism is become more militant. As Uppili says in his post, there are Hindus in the media who are questioning this. If there is no honest discussion of root causes, the problem is going to get worse than you think. Not only will moderate hindus not show disapproval, they will in fact start joining the ranks of the religious right (in the Indian context).

Isn't that why they're called anti-nationals, unpatriotic, are asked to leave the country and are beaten (physically) by moderates and elites

Kris wrote:
This polarization tendency is common when these issues become politicized. It is happening already in India as I said before. We see it in this country as well.

And who is responsible for this, Isn't this the direct reflection of current government and its policies?

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:56 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
** what on earth does this have to do with hinduism? those people live in a democracy and have civil rights, don't they? they have the right to choose to convert and they should be allowed to make that choice whether or not we like it. just like no one stopped you from eating meat or leaving india you can't stop them from leaving the hindu fold. it's a democracy, dammit. i can't believe you do not see that we're impinging on their civil rights. what is wrong with you?
>>>My turn: what on earth does your post, replete with details on my diet habits and leaving india and others' civil rights, have to with my post? Or are you responding to someone else?
I am talking to you. It is not a religious matter when the most desperate of the poor are manipulated by these strongmen into giving up their newly-chosen faith. In a democracy, it becomes an issue of denying people their basic civil rights and dignity. You cannot justify it or soften it by saying that it is not an unexpected reaction to proselytization.

>>>>I don't know if you are aware of people who proselytize standing on street corners who yell at passers-by that they will go to hell, for following the wrong religion and their religion is trash. At that point, the issue of is not the civil rights of someone else who wants to convert, but the right of the listener not to be trashed in his own neighborhood. To continue your analogy of my personal choices, it would be like me distributing pamphlets and shouting at my neighbors that they are eating garbage and losers because they have chosen to live in India.

P.S. On a personal level, I have no interest in religion beyond at a philosophical level. I find most religious diktats to range from the banal to folk wisdom, at best. Abrahamic religions have an abundance of these, but Hinduism is no slouch either, due to tradition. In that sense,I can't excited about who stays in what religion or who converts.

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:04 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>>I am giving you what my take is on why Hinduism is become more militant. As Uppili says in his post, there are Hindus in the media who are questioning this. If there is no honest discussion of root causes, the problem is going to get worse than you think. Not only will moderate hindus not show disapproval, they will in fact start joining the ranks of the religious right (in the Indian context).
Isn't that why they're called anti-nationals, unpatriotic, are asked to leave the country and are beaten (physically) by moderates and elites
Kris wrote:
This polarization tendency is common when these issues become politicized. It is happening already in India as I said before. We see it in this country as well.
And who is responsible for this, Isn't this the direct reflection of current government and its policies?

>>>We are going round and round here,maybe because this is a chicken-egg scenario. If the media keeps insisting it is only Hindus (implying Hindu capriciousness) and refuses to have an honest discussion on why they getting turned off, this will get worse. I am not sure on your second point. The current government has been in power a few months. It may have come to power capitalizing on hindu backlash, rather than the other way around. A bigger part of the story behind that of course is the economic stagnation, but this just added to it.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:11 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>>I am giving you what my take is on why Hinduism is become more militant. As Uppili says in his post, there are Hindus in the media who are questioning this. If there is no honest discussion of root causes, the problem is going to get worse than you think. Not only will moderate hindus not show disapproval, they will in fact start joining the ranks of the religious right (in the Indian context).
Isn't that why they're called anti-nationals, unpatriotic, are asked to leave the country and are beaten (physically) by moderates and elites
Kris wrote:
This polarization tendency is common when these issues become politicized. It is happening already in India as I said before. We see it in this country as well.
And who is responsible for this, Isn't this the direct reflection of current government and its policies?

1. All that name calling did not stop those unbiased, objective, secular, superior hindus from criticising or character assasination of the so called bad Chaddi hindus. DId it ?

THEN WHY NOT THE "GOOD, UNBIASED, SUPERIOR Moderate/Secular Muslims" DON'T criticize the IS and LeT and IM with the same intense name calling and character abuse ?

2. extending that to the Indian situation, the 60 yr congress rule and muslim appeasement and apologetic prostituting attitude of the "so called Secular Baffoons" are the reason for the hardening of the bad Chaddi hindus.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:28 pm

CD:

Sikularism is dying in India.

That is a good sign!

Hinduism will regain its natural characteristic - a tolerant and Secularism-friendly tradition.

Hopefully, Muslims and Christians will learn from Parsis on how to thrive on Indian soil. If they don't, they will continue to be losers.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:49 pm

Kris wrote:
>>>We are going round and round here,maybe because this is a chicken-egg scenario. If the media keeps insisting it is only Hindus (implying Hindu capriciousness) and refuses to have an honest discussion on why they getting turned off, this will get worse.

Would you say the same about American MSM for their focus on Trayvon Martin, Ferguson etc., Are they not having honest discussion by insisting that it is only blacks that are suffering?

Kris wrote:
I am not sure on your second point. The current government has been in power a few months. It may have come to power capitalizing on hindu backlash, rather than the other way around. A bigger part of the story behind that of course is the economic stagnation, but this just added to it.

It is very clear that RSS is calling all the shots, influencing policy making. Is it a coincident that these incidents are becoming common by the day with NDA at the helm.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:53 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:CD:

Sikularism is dying in India.

That is a good sign!

Hinduism will regain its natural characteristic - a tolerant and Secularism-friendly tradition.

Hopefully, Muslims and Christians will learn from Parsis on how to thrive on Indian soil. If they don't, they will continue to be losers.

That is a good sign but communal polarization is rearing its ugly head which is not at all good.

by Kris Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:33 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>>We are going round and round here,maybe because this is a chicken-egg scenario. If the media keeps insisting it is only Hindus (implying Hindu capriciousness) and refuses to have an honest discussion on why they getting turned off, this will get worse.
Would you say the same about American MSM for their focus on Trayvon Martin, Ferguson etc., Are they not having honest discussion by insisting that it is only blacks that are suffering?
Kris wrote:
I am not sure on your second point. The current government has been in power a few months. It may have come to power capitalizing on hindu backlash, rather than the other way around. A bigger part of the story behind that of course is the economic stagnation, but this just added to it.
It is very clear that RSS is calling all the shots, influencing policy making. Is it a coincident that these incidents are becoming common by the day with NDA at the helm.

1) You lost me on American MSM(?) or the connection to what we are discussing. With regard to blacks/police conflict, the American media has sufficient representation on both sides. It is a healthy discussion in that sense.

2) Assuming RSS is calling the shots for sakes of this discussion ( I have no idea one or the other), why are people signing up ? What is driving that? I am assuming many are erstwhile moderates.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:25 am

Kris wrote:
1) You lost me on American MSM(?) or the connection to what we are discussing. With regard to blacks/police conflict, the American media has sufficient representation on both sides. It is a healthy discussion in that sense.

But here in Virginia majority of the right thinks MainStream Media is biased towards minorities. I wonder if it is similar line of thinking by the right in India giving bad press to Indian media.

Kris wrote:
2) Assuming RSS is calling the shots for sakes of this discussion ( I have no idea one or the other), why are people signing up ? What is driving that? I am assuming many are erstwhile moderates.

People signing up? I didn't quite get that.

by pravalika nanda Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:13 pm

Kris wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>>I agree that it will take away from the pluralism and diversity of Hinduism, but this is not the first time a religion has changed. Constantine qualitatively changed Christianity from a religion given to mystical spirituality to a state religion with hard boundaries. It happens when religion and politics become conflated. Unfortunately, you cannot stop that reaction to an aggressive political Islam or a proselytization-oriented Christianity. Still I am hopeful that given Hinduism's innate differing philosophical systems, this will not get to the 'one book, one congregation' level.
** what on earth does this have to do with hinduism? those people live in a democracy and have civil rights, don't they? they have the right to choose to convert and they should be allowed to make that choice whether or not we like it. just like no one stopped you from eating meat or leaving india you can't stop them from leaving the hindu fold. it's a democracy, dammit. i can't believe you do not see that we're impinging on their civil rights. what is wrong with you?
>>>My turn: what on earth does your post, replete with details on my diet habits and leaving india and others' civil rights, have to with my post? Or are you responding to someone else?
I am talking to you. It is not a religious matter when the most desperate of the poor are manipulated by these strongmen into giving up their newly-chosen faith. In a democracy, it becomes an issue of denying people their basic civil rights and dignity. You cannot justify it or soften it by saying that it is not an unexpected reaction to proselytization.
>>>>I don't know if you are aware of people who proselytize standing on street corners who yell at passers-by that they will go to hell, for following the wrong religion and their religion is trash. At that point, the issue of is not the civil rights of someone else who wants to convert, but the right of the listener not to be trashed in his own neighborhood. To continue your analogy of my personal choices, it would be like me distributing pamphlets and shouting at my neighbors that they are eating garbage and losers because they have chosen to live in India.

** well in india the proselytizers are not merely a nuisance, nor are they simple misled individuals - they are part of a well-funded, well-orchestrated movement that speaks hatefully of hinduism and takes vicious advantage of the hindu poor. it is a fact that they are the ones who first assault a poor hindu person's right to practice his faith and live in peace with his family. these are vicious thugs and ideally the indina govt would look into it protecting the hindus' right to practice their religion without having to deal with the cacophony of these christian thugs who take advantage of their poverty and lack of education. in fact if they were left alone this whole problem would not surface in the first place.

**however after they have converted I do not see why hindu thugs want to re-convert them, it is undemocratic. it's one thing when Christian thugs with foreign money want to disrupt the peace in the country but it is unacceptable when hindus want to engage in reconversion, particularly when these are our people and we ought to think about protecting our democratic values. i don't think we can compromise on that cuz that's the only good thing going for india. so india needs legislation on this matter cuz in the long run it would contribute to some peace and quiet in the country. but secular-elites and minorities have already decided amongst themselves that the best thing to do is pretend that chaddis are the only fuck-ups and let shit happen as long as it doesn't touch them in their ivory towers. so my best bet is nothing's gonna change.

**i'm getting bored, ciao.

P.S. On a personal level, I have no interest in religion beyond at a philosophical level. I find most religious diktats to range from the banal to folk wisdom, at best. Abrahamic religions have an abundance of these, but Hinduism is no slouch either, due to tradition. In that sense,I can't excited about who stays in what religion or who converts.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:51 pm

Looks like it didn't take that long for this particular Modi Mausi to get disheartened by her hriday samrat's incompetence

Why is the Prime Minister allowing the RSS to steal his mandate? I ask this question wherever I go these days and frankly I have no answer.

Yet there exists today the bizarre situation in which our strongest prime minister in decades is allowing Hindu fanatics in the Lok Sabha and Hindu fanatical organisations outside to blacken his image. The MPs who have been most offensive wear saffron robes signifying asceticism and renunciation. So what they are doing in Parliament instead of in some Himalayan cave is a valid question. But since they have found their way into the Lok Sabha, why is the Prime Minister not publicly rebuking them for dragging Hindutva into his mandate in the ugliest way? We barely recovered from that Sadhvi calling all Muslims ‘bastards’ when her brother in saffron pronounced that Nathuram Godse was a patriot. Both these MPs expressed regret when their remarks caused a public furore, but it is not possible to ever apologise for such things.

If we need proof that these fanatics have RSS approval, it is evident in the zeal with which the BJP’s ‘alma mater’ is trying to convert Muslims and Christians ‘back’ to Hinduism. The Sanatana Dharma does not permit proselytisation. But try telling that to those loonies rampaging about the derelict, desperately poor shanties of Uttar Pradesh trying to bring Muslims and Christians ‘home’.

For his government, the worst consequence is that the RSS has succeeded in changing the subject. So six months on, when we should have been talking about reforms in governance and the economy, we are talking about cow urine remedies and religious tensions. By now his ministers should have put before us a list of proposed reforms for sectors ranging from energy and the railways to policing and healthcare. That these are desperately needed is obvious from the horrible healthcare tragedies in Chhattisgarh and Punjab and from the recent rape in an Uber taxi.

Where economic reforms are concerned, there has so far been only talk. Not only has Modi’s government continued policies that brought the economy to its knees, it has not even rid us of laws (land acquisition, companies law) that have made doing business in India even more difficult than it already was.

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/fifth-column-stop-hindutva-now/99/

by Kris Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:16 am

>>>I think it is a subset of the secular (and maybe minority) crowd, but that is the crowd that gets on the soapbox in the media. Other than that aspect of it, the action-reaction scenario you have highlighted is what my point is in this thread. This is not case of what should be. It is a case of what it is.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:29 am

confuzzled dude wrote:Looks like it didn't take that long for this particular Modi Mausi to get disheartened by her hriday samrat's incompetence...

Oh Confu, don't you know? She must have been a CONgoon supporter to begin with.

by SomeProfile Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:09 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
That individual proselytisation, let alone mass conversion, has no place in the live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith is blithely ignored by these saffron crusaders, who have mounted a concerted campaign to ‘semitise’ Hinduism and turn it into a religious ideology based, in the manner of Islam and Christianity, on the concept of ‘One book, one congregation, one people’.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/hindu-conversion-how-hinduism-is-being-turned-more-islamic-and-christian/

"Live-and-let-live ethos of the Hindu faith"?? Hahaha! rofl

Look at the assholes appeal to Hinduism's "live-and-let-live ethos" when the shoe is on the other foot. clap

FYI - Dharma does not teach any blind "live-and-let-live ethos". Dharma teaches sustainable practices. If any practice or lifestyle - internal or external - threatens sustainability, Dharma won't turn the other cheek and say "live-and-let-live". Dharma encourages wiping out the threat from the roots. When you are faced with a weed or a pest or a rabid dog that threatens your own safety, you don't hide and say, "live-and-let-live". Islam and Christianity are such unsustainable pests.

Why are Islam and Christianity unsustainable? Because their core tenet is that they are the only true paths, and they are the only ones which have any right to exist. That's an unsustainable point of view and such views should be wiped out.

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