Did India discover Pythagoras theorem?

by rawemotions Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:26 am

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/did-india-discover-pythogoras-theorem-a-top-mathematician-answers/20150109.htm

Excerpts
[size=36]Another standard would involve," he adds, "the requirement of a document that explicitly states the Pythagorean theorem -- the geometric theorem. That first occurs about 800 BC in India in the Shuba Sutra of Baudhayan."[/size]
"There's the first explicitly written theorem that ways that if you have a right triangle, the square of the length of the hypotenuse is the sum of the square of the length of the two legs. That is written for the first time as a theorem for a general triangle in the Shuba Sutra of Baudhayan... At least, that's the first recorded instance."
"In that sense, if you want hard scientific evidence, it's accurate to say that the Pythagorean theorem was first (recorded) in India in about 800 BC. Another standard could go beyond a mere statement," says Dr Bhargava.
One can go further than that -- which is the standard that mathematicians often use -- that while it's nice to have the explicit statement but if there's no proof well, then, maybe they (the ancient culture being studied) didn't know it," he says
"The Shuba Sutras do contain proofs in some special cases and contain numerical proofs in general, but the first actual rigorous proof of the Pythagorean theorem that's on record originates in China -- after the Shuba Sutra."
"So in China in school textbooks they often call it the Gougu theorem. And that was first given in a Chinese manuscript some years later (the Zhou Bi Suan Jing, the material for which dates back to sometime between the 1046 BC and 256 BC)."
"So maybe the statement of the theorem went from India to China, but the actual proof -- the complete, rigorous proof -- was given in China, at least as far as written records go. That's why the Chinese ... (named) the Pythagorean theorem after the person who first proved it (and) who was in China."

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:09 am

shulba sutra, not shuba sutra. there is much stronger evidence for indian first claims on other mathematics, but the claim for Pythagorean theorem is not strong.

by rawemotions Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:25 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:shulba sutra, not shuba sutra. there is much stronger evidence for indian first claims on other mathematics, but the claim for Pythagorean theorem is not strong.

Yes I know it is called Shulba Sutra. But what can the hapless journalist do if his education system does not even talk about this ?

Anyway, are you saying the Fields Medal winner is wrong ? Just stating something for the heck of it, without facts is meaningless.

This is one point on which Dr Harshvardhan is clearly right. Dr Bhargava clearly says, the first stated definition of the theorem connecting it to Geometry is in the Shulba Sutras.

I do not think that we do not need any more discussions on this.
If you have new evidence, then state it here and also kindly send it to Dr Manjul Bhargava, so that he may issue a rejoinder or amend the article.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:34 am

statement of something is not proof. further the dates of the sulbha sutra are not definitive (quite a range) and overlap with pythagoras.

by rawemotions Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:44 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:statement of something is not proof. further the dates of the sulbha sutra are not definitive (quite a range) and overlap with pythagoras.

Again some blind statements without actual proofs.
I am sure the Fields medal winner (Considered equivalent of Nobel Prize in Mathematics) who has admitted to studying these texts as a young boy, has thought about all these carefully before he said this. So I would take his word any day than yours. I am sorry to say your desperate and feeble attempts to muddy the waters is not succeeding.
When an authority speaks we need to give it the respect it deserves. Dismissing it outright is not wise. This is the end of discussion as far as I am concerned and I reckon for most Indians. The journalist has done a great service to India by taking the efforts to interview Dr Bhargava.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:52 am

rawemotions wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:statement of something is not proof. further the dates of the sulbha sutra are not definitive (quite a range) and overlap with pythagoras.

Again some blind statements without actual proofs.
I am sure the Fields medal winner (Considered equivalent of Nobel Prize in Mathematics) who has admitted to studying these texts as a young boy, has thought about all these carefully before he said this. So I would take his word any day than yours. I am sorry to say your desperate and feeble attempts to muddy the waters is not succeeding.
When an authority speaks we need to give it the respect it deserves. Dismissing it outright is not wise. This is the end of discussion as far as I am concerned and I reckon for most Indians. The journalist has done a great service to India by taking the efforts to interview Dr Bhargava.

firstly, i was trying to have a polite discussion with you about this. so why this hostility, may i ask? the contributions of ancient indians to mathematics is a subject that has interested me for a long time. making appeals to authority by way of giving references is fine, but is not the be all and end all of everything. we don't need bharagava level mathematics to understand euclidean geometry. it's quite accessible to people with a better than average mathematics exposure. further, bhargava surely is a great mathematician, but he is not the final word on historical matters which is the provenance of mathematical historians.

dismissing something outright is not good, but so also accepting something simply because it comes from a place of authority.

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