Modi has no guts

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:05 pm

https://such.forumotion.com/t29837-modi-has-guts#190873

I do not have all the facts. But read the above thread and the news item.

This indicates Modi has no guts to pull up Sushma swaraj (a Brahmin) as foreign minister for policy contradictions with PMO but fires Sujatha singh ( a dalit) and then unleashes publicity that she is incompetent. If any one is incompetent , it is Sushma as these are all serious political policies.

Why is modi unwilling to take on Sushma? Is it because he is afraid to take on Brahmin clique in BJP?

Modi has no guts.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:58 pm

I think you've completely misunderstood the noble intentions of this administration. Don't you ever forget that honorable PM sacrificed everything & devoted his life for the betterment of this country. Why are you bringing Brahmin angle into this. Modiji would do no such thing, he was merely following his Dharma. Coming from humble beginnings, he wouldn't have become a PM had he been an insecure-control-freak.

P.S: I almost forgot that there is a portfolio for foreign affairs and Sushma Swaraj is the appointed minister, given how our PM has been the be all and end all of all the foreign policy action thus far.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:04 pm

truthbetold wrote:https://such.forumotion.com/t29837-modi-has-guts#190873

I do not have all the facts. But read the above thread and the news item.

This indicates Modi has no guts to pull up Sushma swaraj (a Brahmin) as foreign minister for policy contradictions with PMO but fires Sujatha singh ( a dalit) and then unleashes publicity that she is incompetent. If any one is incompetent , it is Sushma as these are all serious political policies.

Why is modi unwilling to take on Sushma? Is it because he is afraid to take on Brahmin clique in BJP?

Modi has no guts.

hahaha ...have you joined the Pseudo-iSlamic party of Mian Daud ?

Sujatha Singh was a remnant of the Cong(i) governments. All her mistakes were on policies during that govt. Just look at how the US, Japan, and Europeans are after India and how they treated India BEFORE 2014... If anything, the Nuclear deal was brokered by Jaishankar now and then. Same goes with Japanese relations and Modi visit to US last August.

Sujatha Singh is just as capable as Rahul and became foreign secretary due to her "birthright" as a Dalit and daughter of ex-IB Chief.

Please feel free to join Mian Daud and the Masterabetor Mir-alat Darul-Allah

by rawemotions Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:11 pm

truthbetold wrote:https://such.forumotion.com/t29837-modi-has-guts#190873

I do not have all the facts. But read the above thread and the news item.

This indicates Modi has no guts to pull up Sushma swaraj (a Brahmin) as foreign minister for policy contradictions with PMO but fires Sujatha singh ( a dalit) and then unleashes publicity that she is incompetent. If any one is incompetent , it is Sushma as these are all serious political policies.

Why is modi unwilling to take on Sushma? Is it because he is afraid to take on Brahmin clique in BJP?

Modi has no guts.

May be you should arm yourselves with facts before jumping to conclusions.

It is well known that Sujatha was appointed based on seniority and NOT based on merit. It is believed that even MMS wanted Jaishankar and 10 Janpath overruled and got Sujatha posted. Peer IFS officers had written letters requesting that Jaishankar be posted, so that, merit rather than seniority, be the criteria for appointing someone for the top job in MEA.

Ministers are not involved in all decisions. Bureaucrats basically run the show and give advice to ministers on policy matters. Ministers are involved only in key aspects, ONLY after bureaucrats raise the issue. The question is whether the bureaucrat took the key decisions after consulting Sushma and whether the lacunae attributed to her is all due to her actions. If she did take all the decisions quoted in the articles after consulting Sushma, then what you say is right. It is Sushma who should take the blame. However, it is well known that Modi/PMO gets work done with bureaucrats.

Without knowing all the details it would be ridiculous to assume that these actions were all taken after consulting Sushma. In her own interviews Sujatha has not blamed Sushma for not defending her. Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that some decisions were indeed made by Sujatha OR that she did not give all the information necessary for Sushma to take the correct decision on an issue.

In addition, it is incorrect to say Sushma alone defines policies for MEA and buck stops there. In every major country, there is some overlap between MEA and the PM'/President's office. For example when Barack Obama visited here, Kerry was not present. He came earlier and did the ground work. So policy directions for MEA bureaucrats come from both the Minister as well as PMO. It is the bureaucrats job to walk the tightrope (please see Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister series) and execute the stated policies.

At the end of the day, the PM and his council of ministers, cannot be expected to deliver if he/she cannot rely on the bureaucrats who run the show. The bureaucrats serve at the pleasure of ministers.
Having been appointed by UPA it is too much for Sujatha to expect continuing to serve in NDA. She is taking
advantage of the magnanimity of NDA in continuing with an UPA appointed bureaucrat. Without blindly changing to someone , they continued with her. Then they found a better candidate for MEA who was due to retire on Jan 31st. So she was asked to move out of MEA to make way for him.

Reports indicate that Sushma did ask Sujatha about an alternate post. But she refused and wanted to retire. End of story.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:11 pm

An interesting line from that TOI article linked to the GUTS thread. As said in national scripture, PM is Sarvantaryami & and the sole actor, everyone else is his puppet.

Jaishankar's elevation means Modi now has a direct connection with the ministry

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:13 pm

Uppili

Complete higwash. You have made no real argument.

Your argument is it is good enough for you that sujatha is a dalit and she is appointed by congress. Both bogus arguments to prove incompetency. TOI article listed items that made PMO unhappy. Each of them had foreign minister stamped on them. If any one is incompetent it is Sushma.

As i said several times before, modi has no balls to deal with sushma and he is trying to send signal to sushma by firing a dalits (who do not have much of a voice in NDA). Shame on modi.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:19 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:An interesting line from that TOI article linked to the GUTS thread. As said in national scripture, PM is Sarvantaryami & and the sole actor, everyone else is his puppet.
Jaishankar's elevation means Modi now has a direct connection with the ministry

Well...did you complain when 10 Janpath - Sonia Mata - was controlling, deciding, and running (and looting) with the entire cabinet, including Madam Mohan Singh - as "servants"?

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:20 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Ministers are not involved in all decisions. Bureaucrats basically run the show and give advice to ministers on policy matters.

Completely agreed; honorable PM should shut his trap, stop taking credit for everything under the sun, and rest in Himalayas while bureaucrats are running the show.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:26 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:An interesting line from that TOI article linked to the GUTS thread. As said in national scripture, PM is Sarvantaryami & and the sole actor, everyone else is his puppet.
Jaishankar's elevation means Modi now has a direct connection with the ministry

Well...did you complain when 10 Janpath - Sonia Mata - was controlling, deciding, and running (and looting) with the entire cabinet, including Madam Mohan Singh - as "servants"?

Well, UPA is not running the country, no point in bringing them up in every discussion and comparing with them. If electorate wanted continuation of UPA policies they would've elected UPA. People are realizing that "acche din" will never arrive under this feku leadership.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:28 pm

Raw,

I will try to answers to some of the questions raised by your conjuctures.

RAW: "Having been appointed by UPA it is too much for Sujatha to expect continuing to serve in NDA."

Nonsense. She is a career officer. NDA is not doing her any additional favors than any other officer. She is working to put food on her table just like any other IAS/IFS officer. No more, no less.

"She is taking advantage of the magnanimity of NDA in continuing with a UPA appointed bureaucrat."

What an ignorant statement. She is not a UPA appointed bureacrat. SHe is a career officer of indian services. India is unlike USA where spoils go to victor. Whoever is the victor, Indian bureaucratic machine remains same (jai shanker also belongs to the same categoty).

She was given an important foreign secretary job ( plum positions go to those close to the top.) by UPA. Again this is not just UPA. It is true of NDA also. Many UPA nominees are continued by NDA (governors, secretaries and ambassadors). Syed .... is a UPA appointed spokesperson for Foreign ministry. he is still there.

Modi changed several officers posting when he took over. His ministers changed some and kept some officers. raising UPA appointment now is nothing but political idiocity.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:34 pm

Her offer to take early retirement was rejected as Prime Minister's Office wanted to delete a reference that she was doing so on the instructions of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, former Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh, whose tenure was abruptly "curtailed", said on Saturday.

Singh said External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj had informed her on January 28 afternoon that the PM wanted to appoint S Jaishankar as the Foreign Secretary.

She said she had sent a letter on that evening seeking early retirement "as instructed by the Prime Minister". But she got a call from the Prime Minister's Office "asking me if I would consider deleting it (the words)"

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sujatha-singh-pmo-pm-modi-reference-in-resignation-letter/1/416317.html

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:40 pm

Singh: That again completely uninformed and planting stories. What were the outcomes of visit to Japan? 3.5 trillion yen in investments. What is it that I should have followed-up on? Was it for the Ministry of commerce, Department of Industrial promotion, Department of economic Affairs. The civil nuclear deal. Come on.

Singh: About what? You had eight months of the most successful foreign policies that any new government has implemented. On Tuesday, before the government was sworn-in, I got a call from Arun Jaitley telling me what I thought of the ideas of the SAARC leaders to be invited, it didn't take me half a second to respond and say 'great idea, we will go for it' and they landed on Sunday. I had three days. I doubt that many FS would have done it.

Singh: No, it PM is the proof. I and briefed him twice before the leaders came, the third time the night, they were sworn-in. They came. After that the visit to Bhutan, my idea. I said you must have a bilateral visit to the neighbourhood before the multilateral BRICS summit. On the BRICS summit, it was not just one secretary but three secretaries who went, I went because it would have been the first meeting with President Putin. The visit to Japan, I put it forward, the visit to US. I cant think of one idea that I can think where I have fell short-off.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:43 pm

Raw

What is ministers responsibility and what is secretary's responsibility? What is PMO's responsibility? This changes from govt to govt at some level. But in all cases political policies are the prerogative of political leadership.

Example 1: Criticism of Isreal - Political issue. Long established policy is that India is critical of isreal. Modi wants to change it. Who is responsible for changing foreign ministry direction? A bureaucrat? absolutely not. Sushma.

Example 2: Voting against Isreal: again political. enough said. If this vote is against GOI policy, why did not sushma make amends by public overtures or issueing some compensatory mesages etc. Nothing.

Example 3: Not following on Japan: Again what was the follow up action that sushma had drawn and sijata did not follow? No one knows. If SUshma noticed, why did she not order sujata to shape up and do what is necessary?

example 4; Danish PM invitation: Where was sushma again?

Final example: Sushma did not fire sujata or asked her to be fired or in any way wanted her out of her office. In fact news reports, suggests that she wanted sujata to continue to the end of her term that 7 more months. That indicates that Sushma is not dissatisfied by her. Sujata was carrying out her boss's wishes.

The problem is between SUshma and modi. Modi chose to send sushma a message by firing sujata. Modi's press division unleashed publicity spreading the dalit angle and UPA (sonia etc) angle.

Raw you do not have any legs to stand on in your argument. No sensible information on incompetency. No insubordination. This political crookery.

I would not have cared except people on this board and many place in India modi insinuated firing sujata singh is ok because she is a dalit and therefore incompetent.

Shame on modi and his lack of guts.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:44 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:An interesting line from that TOI article linked to the GUTS thread. As said in national scripture, PM is Sarvantaryami & and the sole actor, everyone else is his puppet.
Jaishankar's elevation means Modi now has a direct connection with the ministry

Well...did you complain when 10 Janpath - Sonia Mata - was controlling, deciding, and running (and looting) with the entire cabinet, including Madam Mohan Singh - as "servants"?
Well, UPA is not running the country, no point in bringing them up in every discussion and comparing with them. If electorate wanted continuation of UPA policies they would've elected UPA. People are realizing that "acche din" will never arrive under this feku leadership.

Yes it IS important to bring them up - at least in YOUR discussion and those by your ILK - bcz of your blind criticism without looking at the cause and completely ignoring the root of the issues. What you say applies only after 3 years and when Modi prepares for his next stint. Till then it is a continuous process and the past pays a role in the transition.

But these are too advanced for you and requires a pair of binoculars and not a telescope as you are using.

by rawemotions Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:45 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw,

I will try to answers to some of the questions raised by your conjuctures.

RAW: "Having been appointed by UPA it is too much for Sujatha to expect continuing to serve in NDA."

Nonsense. She is a career officer. NDA is not doing her any additional favors than any other officer. She is working to put food on her table just like any other IAS/IFS officer. No more, no less.

"She is taking advantage of the magnanimity of NDA in continuing with a UPA appointed bureaucrat."

What an ignorant statement. She is not a UPA appointed bureacrat. SHe is a career officer of indian services. India is unlike USA where spoils go to victor. Whoever is the victor, Indian bureaucratic machine remains same (jai shanker also belongs to the same categoty).

She was given an important foreign secretary job ( plum positions go to those close to the top.) by UPA. Again this is not just UPA. It is true of NDA also. Many UPA nominees are continued by NDA (governors, secretaries and ambassadors). Syed .... is a UPA appointed spokesperson for Foreign ministry. he is still there.

Modi changed several officers posting when he took over. His ministers changed some and kept some officers. raising UPA appointment now is nothing but political idiocity.

I am not the one who projected a conjecture. You jumped to conclusions by saying Sushma is involved in all decisions. I just pointed out that there are no facts to jump to such a conclusion. We may never know.

Regarding the rest, she is a bureaucrat, and she is entitled to some JOB in any government department NOT necessarily the top job of a ministry like MEA. You seem to know nothing about the workings of the Indian bureaucracy. UPA/Congress repeatedly shuffled the secretaries of each department as soon as they took power. They did it in 2004.

The NDA is well within its rights to change the secretary of MEA to someone else and shunt her out to because of her alleged congress connections to get the job (let us not forget that Jaishankar was considered even them to be a better candidate). They are a thousand other jobs an officer can take where there is less interaction with ministers. Heads of PSU's, Corporations for IAS and training academies/vice-Consuls, ambassadors for IFS. There is no hard and fast rule about keeping someone or bringing someone to replace the incumbent and shunt them out. Despite the fact that she was appointed only due to seniority and not because she was the best candidate around, they tried her for sometime, found somebody better and got that person in. It is universally agreed even by peer IFS officers that Jaishankar is more meritorious.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:48 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw

What is ministers responsibility and what is secretary's responsibility? What is PMO's responsibility? This changes from govt to govt at some level. But in all cases political policies are the prerogative of political leadership.

Example 1: Criticism of Isreal - Political issue. Long established policy is that India is critical of isreal. Modi wants to change it. Who is responsible for changing foreign ministry direction? A bureaucrat? absolutely not. Sushma.

Example 2: Voting against Isreal: again political. enough said. If this vote is against GOI policy, why did not sushma make amends by public overtures or issueing some compensatory mesages etc. Nothing.

Example 3: Not following on Japan: Again what was the follow up action that sushma had drawn and sijata did not follow? No one knows. If SUshma noticed, why did she not order sujata to shape up and do what is necessary?

example 4; Danish PM invitation: Where was sushma again?

Final example: Sushma did not fire sujata or asked her to be fired or in any way wanted her out of her office. In fact news reports, suggests that she wanted sujata to continue to the end of her term that 7 more months. That indicates that Sushma is not dissatisfied by her. Sujata was carrying out her boss's wishes.

The problem is between SUshma and modi. Modi chose to send sushma a message by firing sujata. Modi's press division unleashed publicity spreading the dalit angle and UPA (sonia etc) angle.

Raw you do not have any legs to stand on in your argument. No sensible information on incompetency. No insubordination. This political crookery.

I would not have cared except people on this board and many place in India modi insinuated firing sujata singh is ok because she is a dalit and therefore incompetent.

Shame on modi and his lack of guts.

You have too high an opinion of our Netas and their intellectual capacity. If what you say applies (the buck stops at the Ministers' table), then the UPA ministers, including the Prime Servant - should have been fired repeatedly on a weekly basis.

by rawemotions Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:50 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Raw

What is ministers responsibility and what is secretary's responsibility? What is PMO's responsibility? This changes from govt to govt at some level. But in all cases political policies are the prerogative of political leadership.

Example 1: Criticism of Isreal - Political issue. Long established policy is that India is critical of isreal. Modi wants to change it. Who is responsible for changing foreign ministry direction? A bureaucrat? absolutely not. Sushma.

Example 2: Voting against Isreal: again political. enough said. If this vote is against GOI policy, why did not sushma make amends by public overtures or issueing some compensatory mesages etc. Nothing.

Example 3: Not following on Japan: Again what was the follow up action that sushma had drawn and sijata did not follow? No one knows. If SUshma noticed, why did she not order sujata to shape up and do what is necessary?

example 4; Danish PM invitation: Where was sushma again?

Final example: Sushma did not fire sujata or asked her to be fired or in any way wanted her out of her office. In fact news reports, suggests that she wanted sujata to continue to the end of her term that 7 more months. That indicates that Sushma is not dissatisfied by her. Sujata was carrying out her boss's wishes.

The problem is between SUshma and modi. Modi chose to send sushma a message by firing sujata. Modi's press division unleashed publicity spreading the dalit angle and UPA (sonia etc) angle.

Raw you do not have any legs to stand on in your argument. No sensible information on incompetency. No insubordination. This political crookery.

I would not have cared except people on this board and many place in India modi insinuated firing sujata singh is ok because she is a dalit and therefore incompetent.

Shame on modi and his lack of guts.

You have too high an opinion of our Netas and their intellectual capacity. If what you say applies (the buck stops at the Ministers' table), then the UPA ministers, including the Prime Servant - should have been fired repeatedly on a weekly basis.

Good one! I think TBT ought to see Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister. It is illuminating and at the same time is a good comedy.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:53 pm

And who was that minister fired in less than 4 months after he took the oath. Oh! yeah that was a South Indain who (can't speak much Hindi,) didn't care much for PM's handpicked adviser to the Minister of Railways.

by rawemotions Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:55 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw

What is ministers responsibility and what is secretary's responsibility? What is PMO's responsibility? This changes from govt to govt at some level. But in all cases political policies are the prerogative of political leadership.

Example 1: Criticism of Isreal - Political issue. Long established policy is that India is critical of isreal. Modi wants to change it. Who is responsible for changing foreign ministry direction? A bureaucrat? absolutely not. Sushma.

Example 2: Voting against Isreal: again political. enough said. If this vote is against GOI policy, why did not sushma make amends by public overtures or issueing some compensatory mesages etc. Nothing.

Example 3: Not following on Japan: Again what was the follow up action that sushma had drawn and sijata did not follow? No one knows. If SUshma noticed, why did she not order sujata to shape up and do what is necessary?

example 4; Danish PM invitation: Where was sushma again?

Final example: Sushma did not fire sujata or asked her to be fired or in any way wanted her out of her office. In fact news reports, suggests that she wanted sujata to continue to the end of her term that 7 more months. That indicates that Sushma is not dissatisfied by her. Sujata was carrying out her boss's wishes.

The problem is between SUshma and modi. Modi chose to send sushma a message by firing sujata. Modi's press division unleashed publicity spreading the dalit angle and UPA (sonia etc) angle.

Raw you do not have any legs to stand on in your argument. No sensible information on incompetency. No insubordination. This political crookery.

I would not have cared except people on this board and many place in India modi insinuated firing sujata singh is ok because she is a dalit and therefore incompetent.

Shame on modi and his lack of guts.

Jaishankar is considered more meritorious than Sujata among IFS circles. Do you deny this ?
What more do we need? Modi got a person who is more capable before he retired and requested that Sujata move to some other position. She refused, and tool retirement. What is wrong with this ? It is pure conjecture (News trader is the apt name) to assume that Modi is sending a message to Sushma, blah.. blah..blah..

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:02 pm

If modi wanted jai shanker, he should get him. I have no problem. But sujata's career was curtailed and huge negative publicity was unleashed. That is the problem.

As far as the dalit angle is considered, that is necessary to be discussed and shredded to pieces because it was ridiculous. If modi wants to build his empire on the backs of weakest of the nation while know-towing the strong castes, he will go down in flames quicker than you can imagine. India is a diverse nation and he better be the leader of all not just bjp and RSS right wingers.

I do think all the associated publicity (much of it mean spirited) is by design. Modi wanted to send a message to Sushma to shape up or else.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:27 pm

truthbetold wrote:If modi wanted jai shanker, he should get him. I have no problem. But sujata's career was curtailed and huge negative publicity was unleashed. That is the problem.

As far as the dalit angle is considered, that is necessary to be discussed and shredded to pieces because it was ridiculous. If modi wants to build his empire on the backs of weakest of the nation while know-towing the strong castes, he will go down in flames quicker than you can imagine. India is a diverse nation and he better be the leader of all not just bjp and RSS right wingers.

I do think all the associated publicity (much of it mean spirited) is by design. Modi wanted to send a message to Sushma to shape up or else.

You don't get it, do you? incompetency at bureaucrat level is not tolerated by this administration, a big NO.. PERIOD, especially reservation candidates who (are 100% incompetent) stole the opportunities from elite intelligent Brahmins. However, incompetency of political heads is welcomed i.e. starting from the top; the proof is in the pudding, look at all the right-wing nonsense that has been spouted (and is carrying on) since honorable PM took place. Did he open his mouth ever, against love jihad, ghar wapsi or any other nonsense of that nature? Do you wonder as to how such fringe groups have become strong overnight?

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:43 pm

CD

In my opinion, this whole sujata affair is a warning shot to Sushma swaraj.

Sushma is gentle (vajpayee) type likable person and she is conducting her foreign policy in similar style. She probably failed to read signals on isreal. It is also possible that someone in US delegation may have wanted sujata's head as price for the whole khobragade incident. Sushma herself developed a decent rapport with sujata and did not see a problem in her. Hence Modi's choice of sujata to be sent packing.

Sushma would have made a perfect foreign minister for a low key guy like mms but she may not be a good fit for high profile and aggressive modi. It make take an year or more but she will be moved another portfolio.

by truthbetold Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:49 pm

CD

My two cents on fring groups and fringe elements within BJP and RSS.

May of the fringe groups got bolstered because modi's govt would react differently and at different speed with regards to their actions.

Many of them do not feel obligated to modi and want to use the opportunity to build up their base. Hence the hyper activity.

Some of the activity in UP is not all innocent. religious tension is good for religious leaning sides on both sides of aisle. So they both play aggressor and defender on different issues but are in the forefront of religious battles. BJP and SP are primary instigators in these cases with BSP and congress also fishing in the troubled waters.

by rawemotions Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:22 pm

truthbetold wrote:If modi wanted jai shanker, he should get him. I have no problem. But sujata's career was curtailed and huge negative publicity was unleashed. That is the problem.

As far as the dalit angle is considered, that is necessary to be discussed and shredded to pieces because it was ridiculous. If modi wants to build his empire on the backs of weakest of the nation while know-towing the strong castes, he will go down in flames quicker than you can imagine. India is a diverse nation and he better be the leader of all not just bjp and RSS right wingers.

I do think all the associated publicity (much of it mean spirited) is by design. Modi wanted to send a message to Sushma to shape up or else.

If a well qualified person is there within the administration, Modi wants her/him.
At the end of the day the Cabinet Secretary is the head of civil service. If the Cabinet secretary wants to shuffle people, nothing comes in the way.

It was Sujata's choice to curtail her career. She might have been ok as an administrator, but now a better qualified person came along and she was asked to move somewhere else to make way for him. But she decided to retire. So many bureaucrats quietly move to other posts. She wanted publicity, and got a nose cut, when it came out that even MMS did not favor her for the job and wanted Jaishankar.

What is this Dalit angle and why is that relevant here? The sub-culture she belongs to has nothing to do with this.
Anyway, calling a Foreign secretary of India who's father is a governor, part of a weaker section is a Joke.

Modi wants good achievers and performing people (from within the administration),
irrespective of what community they belong to. So calling Modi as someone who does not care about weaker sections, when all his actions are focused on Jobs and facilities he wants to create for the poor, just because he asked for a replacement of MEA secretary, (who happened to be a Dalit) is ridiculous. The media nowadays is hell bent on creating controversies, out of nothing for Modi's administration. The same media kept quiet, during the UPA regime which did many such appointments.

I do not agree to your conjecture that Modi is sending a message to Sushma.
That is pure baloney, and the kind of stuff that news traders make. You are free to circumspect about all this, and float conspiracy theories, but it is a waste of time.

I do not see any reason for Media to give special focus on NDA government All appointments are questioned, but the same media did not question the competency of folks appointed to censor board, ICHR etc.. during UPA-1 and UPA-2.
Media in India is becoming highly partisan.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:32 pm

I bet Sujatha Q Singh sought and received Sonia's approval before resigning.

mark my words:

She will be given a Cong(i) ticket at the next UP election.

She belongs to the weaker section? my foot. She belongs to the elite and elite of the elite and I bet she never set foot in a slum or ate with another TRUE, poor, and really WEAK Dalit.

She belongs to the category of people among BC/OBC/SC/ST who corner and garner all the quota seats with their money and power.

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:11 am

truthbetold wrote:https://such.forumotion.com/t29837-modi-has-guts#190873

I do not have all the facts. But read the above thread and the news item.

This indicates Modi has no guts to pull up Sushma swaraj (a Brahmin) as foreign minister for policy contradictions with PMO but fires Sujatha singh ( a dalit) and then unleashes publicity that she is incompetent. If any one is incompetent , it is Sushma as these are all serious political policies.

Why is modi unwilling to take on Sushma? Is it because he is afraid to take on Brahmin clique in BJP?

Modi has no guts.

You're right to conclude that this is a Modi-Swaraj power play. Sujatha Singh was just collateral damage. This is Modi's style with anyone who crosses him. The Cabinet role for Swaraj was a grudging concession to the Advani camp. Since then, he's done everything possible to remind her of her insignificance and redundancy. Expect many more humiliations ahead until she finally quits on her own.

by rawemotions Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:38 pm

rawemotions wrote:
truthbetold wrote:If modi wanted jai shanker, he should get him. I have no problem. But sujata's career was curtailed and huge negative publicity was unleashed. That is the problem.

As far as the dalit angle is considered, that is necessary to be discussed and shredded to pieces because it was ridiculous. If modi wants to build his empire on the backs of weakest of the nation while know-towing the strong castes, he will go down in flames quicker than you can imagine. India is a diverse nation and he better be the leader of all not just bjp and RSS right wingers.

I do think all the associated publicity (much of it mean spirited) is by design. Modi wanted to send a message to Sushma to shape up or else.
If a well qualified person is there within the administration, Modi wants her/him.
At the end of the day the Cabinet Secretary is the head of civil service. If the Cabinet secretary wants to shuffle people, nothing comes in the way.

It was Sujata's choice to curtail her career. She might have been ok as an administrator, but now a better qualified person came along and she was asked to move somewhere else to make way for him. But she decided to retire. So many bureaucrats quietly move to other posts. She wanted publicity, and got a nose cut, when it came out that even MMS did not favor her for the job and wanted Jaishankar.

What is this Dalit angle and why is that relevant here? The sub-culture she belongs to has nothing to do with this.
Anyway, calling a Foreign secretary of India who's father is a governor, part of a weaker section is a Joke.

Modi wants good achievers and performing people (from within the administration),
irrespective of what community they belong to. So calling Modi as someone who does not care about weaker sections, when all his actions are focused on Jobs and facilities he wants to create for the poor, just because he asked for a replacement of MEA secretary, (who happened to be a Dalit) is ridiculous. The media nowadays is hell bent on creating controversies, out of nothing for Modi's administration. The same media kept quiet, during the UPA regime which did many such appointments.

I do not agree to your conjecture that Modi is sending a message to Sushma.
That is pure baloney, and the kind of stuff that news traders make. You are free to circumspect about all this, and float conspiracy theories, but it is a waste of time.

I do not see any reason for Media to give special focus on NDA government All appointments are questioned, but the same media did not question the competency of folks appointed to censor board, ICHR etc.. during UPA-1 and UPA-2.
Media in India is becoming highly partisan.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/sujatha-singh-a-bright-diplomat-could-not-keep-pace-with-pm-modis-foreign-policy-vision/articleshow/46056326.cms?intenttarget=no

by rawemotions Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:52 pm

rawemotions wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
truthbetold wrote:If modi wanted jai shanker, he should get him. I have no problem. But sujata's career was curtailed and huge negative publicity was unleashed. That is the problem.

As far as the dalit angle is considered, that is necessary to be discussed and shredded to pieces because it was ridiculous. If modi wants to build his empire on the backs of weakest of the nation while know-towing the strong castes, he will go down in flames quicker than you can imagine. India is a diverse nation and he better be the leader of all not just bjp and RSS right wingers.

I do think all the associated publicity (much of it mean spirited) is by design. Modi wanted to send a message to Sushma to shape up or else.
If a well qualified person is there within the administration, Modi wants her/him.
At the end of the day the Cabinet Secretary is the head of civil service. If the Cabinet secretary wants to shuffle people, nothing comes in the way.

It was Sujata's choice to curtail her career. She might have been ok as an administrator, but now a better qualified person came along and she was asked to move somewhere else to make way for him. But she decided to retire. So many bureaucrats quietly move to other posts. She wanted publicity, and got a nose cut, when it came out that even MMS did not favor her for the job and wanted Jaishankar.

What is this Dalit angle and why is that relevant here? The sub-culture she belongs to has nothing to do with this.
Anyway, calling a Foreign secretary of India who's father is a governor, part of a weaker section is a Joke.

Modi wants good achievers and performing people (from within the administration),
irrespective of what community they belong to. So calling Modi as someone who does not care about weaker sections, when all his actions are focused on Jobs and facilities he wants to create for the poor, just because he asked for a replacement of MEA secretary, (who happened to be a Dalit) is ridiculous. The media nowadays is hell bent on creating controversies, out of nothing for Modi's administration. The same media kept quiet, during the UPA regime which did many such appointments.

I do not agree to your conjecture that Modi is sending a message to Sushma.
That is pure baloney, and the kind of stuff that news traders make. You are free to circumspect about all this, and float conspiracy theories, but it is a waste of time.

I do not see any reason for Media to give special focus on NDA government All appointments are questioned, but the same media did not question the competency of folks appointed to censor board, ICHR etc.. during UPA-1 and UPA-2.
Media in India is becoming highly partisan.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/sujatha-singh-a-bright-diplomat-could-not-keep-pace-with-pm-modis-foreign-policy-vision/articleshow/46056326.cms?intenttarget=no

Modi shuffles two more secretaries for non-performance in Smart Cities/Housing for All project
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/modi-govt-carries-out-another-secy-level-reshuffle/

There is a need to bring in experts to consult on technology, program implementation etc.. Bureaucrats may not have all the knowledge to frame policies and they should go ahead and bring consultants to help them.

by truthbetold Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:34 pm

Raw

you jump in without looking for the starting point of the argument and repeat your tangential arguments. No one is disputing need for efficiency or the right of PM to get his own team.

Issue came up because the firing was described as a result of dalit inefficiency and all reservation candidates are incompetent.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:42 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw

you jump in without looking for the starting point of the argument and repeat your tangential arguments. No one is disputing need for efficiency or the right of PM to get his own team.

Issue came up because the firing was described as a result of dalit inefficiency and all reservation candidates are incompetent.

She was not fired. she was asked to step down. unfortunately, she could not move to a parallel post as it was a very senior post. so She RETIRED.

wht do you expwect. to keep an inefficient person to continue and let a skillful person to retire ?

by rawemotions Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:42 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw

you jump in without looking for the starting point of the argument and repeat your tangential arguments. No one is disputing need for efficiency or the right of PM to get his own team.

Issue came up because the firing was described as a result of dalit inefficiency and all reservation candidates are incompetent.

No I am not! This issue has no relation to the what sub-culture a person belongs to. Other FS who have been transferred were not dalits.

But, I am saying that your conspiracy theories about Sushma etc.. are wrong. Many points now confirm to the same. I read news traders who fish in muddy waters and float theories. I am surprised you were taken in by all that.

- This is not a one off incident. Other secretaries who did not perform have also be shifted.
- The articles I quote clearly said Modi has been keeping work away from Sujata for months.
She had an inkling of what is happening. She tried to make it a Political issue , instead of moving ON
and got a nose cut, when things came out about how she used Political connections to get appointed
rather than on Merit.
- For the record Sushma is visiting China accompanied by new FS Jaishankar (a person with experience in China)
Chinese can be difficult to deal with even with experienced folks.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:53 pm

..in the mean time, what happened to that honest Sand Mafia IAS cutie officer that was humiliated by the SP and Cong(i) politicians.

I heard quite a few good things about district collectors - 3 or 4. They are all young women in late 20s or early 30s and very down to earth and even approachable.

by truthbetold Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:00 pm

rawemotions wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Raw

you jump in without looking for the starting point of the argument and repeat your tangential arguments. No one is disputing need for efficiency or the right of PM to get his own team.

Issue came up because the firing was described as a result of dalit inefficiency and all reservation candidates are incompetent.
No I am not! This issue has no relation to the what sub-culture a person belongs to. Other FS who have been transferred were not dalits.

But, I am saying that your conspiracy theories about Sushma etc.. are wrong. Many points now confirm to the same. I read news traders who fish in muddy waters and float theories. I am surprised you were taken in by all that.

- This is not a one off incident. Other secretaries who did not perform have also be shifted.
- The articles I quote clearly said Modi has been keeping work away from Sujata for months.
She had an inkling of what is happening. She tried to make it a Political issue , instead of moving ON
and got a nose cut, when things came out about how she used Political connections to get appointed
rather than on Merit.
- For the record Sushma is visiting China accompanied by new FS Jaishankar (a person with experience in China)
Chinese can be difficult to deal with even with experienced folks.

Raw

you are dense man. This discussion started because someone said that.

On the message to sushma, we will differ. I do not buy your party line defense. I am betting it is a signal to sushma and we will see how things develop over the next year.

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