most important reason why the death penalty should be abolished everywhere

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ? Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

>>> I would be in favor of doing away with it and instead going the lifetime imprisonment route in the case of heinous crimes. That will eliminate the possibility of the wrongful execution in cases like Hilton's. However, it has to be with a guarantee from the state that a lifetime imprisonment means exactly that- no commutation, no technicality- driven releases, no lifetime really means 14 years or 14 months etc. In other words, a mass murderer cannot be out again in open society to kill more people.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

what does "all lying" mean?

Kris wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

>>> I would be in favor of doing away with it and instead going the lifetime imprisonment route in the case of heinous crimes. That will eliminate the possibility of the wrongful execution in cases like Hilton's. However, it has to be with a guarantee from the state that a lifetime imprisonment means exactly that- no commutation, no technicality- driven releases, no lifetime really means 14 years or 14 months etc. In other words, a mass murderer cannot be out again in open society to kill more people.

The problem with these IS, Taliban terrorists is that as long as they are alive more lives are at risk as soon or later, there will be demand for the release/exchange of these killers. It has happened before in India, US, and elsewhere. So handing down death sentence for these will certainly save more lives in the future.

Would you not hang serial killers (who have no remorse) or those who "rip off" fetuses from pregnant women? So the death sentence should be revisited and should be restricted to killers of "society" with strict checks/balances. All the 142 releases from death rows are remnants of the yesteryear racism. With technology such mistakes can be minimized. But, just as in anything there can be no 100% guarantee.

swapna wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

what does "all lying" mean?

You will not understand as your english knowledge is very rudimentary.

Ammachi is "all knowing" when it comes to the English language.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kris wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Yes.. I agree....except in cases of mass murders, clear-cut bombing cases

Do you want death penalty should not have been carried out on Kasab - one of the bombers who was responsible for the killing of 189 people in Bombay?

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

>>> I would be in favor of doing away with it and instead going the lifetime imprisonment route in the case of heinous crimes. That will eliminate the possibility of the wrongful execution in cases like Hilton's. However, it has to be with a guarantee from the state that a lifetime imprisonment means exactly that- no commutation, no technicality- driven releases, no lifetime really means 14 years or 14 months etc. In other words, a mass murderer cannot be out again in open society to kill more people.

The problem with these IS, Taliban terrorists is that as long as they are alive more lives are at risk as soon or later, there will be demand for the release/exchange of these killers.  It has happened before in India, US, and elsewhere.  So handing down death sentence for these will certainly save more lives in the future.

Would you not hang serial killers (who have no remorse) or those who "rip off" fetuses from pregnant women?  So the death sentence should be revisited and should be restricted to killers of "society" with strict checks/balances.   All the 142 releases from death rows are remnants of the yesteryear racism.  With technology such mistakes can be minimized. But, just as in anything there can be no 100% guarantee.

Good points there. Instead of blindly advocating to abolish death sentences for one and all, one has to consider these points. Yeah, it's kinda easy to talk against death sentences and anyone can do it to seem cool. But there are points to ponder:

Life sentence should mean a complete life sentence, without the chance of a parole, without the possibility of the convict even seeing the outside world. Will that be ensured? Has there been any convict in India who has been locked up for life till now? I very much doubt that. Life sentence in India was for a max of 14 yrs. (I know a couple (father and son) who's been sentenced to life imprisonment for a double murder serving the sentence for only 7 yrs, instead of 14). Someone said it changed now. Dunno abt that. Even if it for the full life term, will it be ensured that the person will not see the light of the outside world? Highly doubt it. Think Charles Shobaraj, the conman and mass murderer, who escaped from the maximum security Tihar and later released.

As Uppili said, it's a thread to give life sentences to terrorists. The burden of safeguarding them all the time is huge. It's also a threat to the security of the country and its citizens. We can expect kidnappings (think the home minister's daughter(Mufti Mohammad Syed's daughter Rubaiya)  being kidnapped in exchange for the terrorists and the hijacking of the indian airlines flight to Khandahar and the demand for the release of the dreaded terrorists. The then home minister, Advani, shamelessly went to Khandahar and handed over the terrorists. A newly wedded bridegroom on his way back for his honeymoon lost his life.  "The hostage crisis lasted for seven days and ended after India agreed to release three militants – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood Azhar. These militants have since been implicated in other terrorist actions, such as 9/11, the kidnap and murder of Daniel Pearl and Mumbai terror attacks."-wiki. How many lives have been lost again?

btw, with the DNA technology, the criminal investigations and thereby the criminal justice system have improved tremendously. Cases such as the ones in the OP are becoming very rare. Can't hang on to the flaws 30 yrs ago to make some point now. No one will be sentenced to death without concrete, sure and solid evidence of the crime.

Kinnera wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kris wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i said that's the most important reason. there are other reasons. i am opposed to the death penalty, no ifs no buts. yes in the case of kasab too.

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

>>> I would be in favor of doing away with it and instead going the lifetime imprisonment route in the case of heinous crimes. That will eliminate the possibility of the wrongful execution in cases like Hilton's. However, it has to be with a guarantee from the state that a lifetime imprisonment means exactly that- no commutation, no technicality- driven releases, no lifetime really means 14 years or 14 months etc. In other words, a mass murderer cannot be out again in open society to kill more people.

The problem with these IS, Taliban terrorists is that as long as they are alive more lives are at risk as soon or later, there will be demand for the release/exchange of these killers.  It has happened before in India, US, and elsewhere.  So handing down death sentence for these will certainly save more lives in the future.

Would you not hang serial killers (who have no remorse) or those who "rip off" fetuses from pregnant women?  So the death sentence should be revisited and should be restricted to killers of "society" with strict checks/balances.   All the 142 releases from death rows are remnants of the yesteryear racism.  With technology such mistakes can be minimized. But, just as in anything there can be no 100% guarantee.

Good points there. Instead of blindly abolishing death sentences for one and all, one has to consider these points. Yeah, it's kinda easy to talk against life sentences and anyone can do it to seem cool. Points to ponder:

Life sentence should mean a complete life sentence, without the chance of a parole, without the possibility of the convict even seeing the outside world. Will that be ensured? Has there been any convict in India who has been locked up for life till now? I very much doubt that. Life sentence in India was for a max of 14 yrs. (I know a couple (father and son) who's been sentenced to life imprisonment for a double murder serving the sentence for only 7 yrs, instead of 14). Someone said it changed now. Dunno abt that. Even if it for the full life term, will it be ensured that the person will not see the light of the outside world? Highly doubt it. Think Charles Shobaraj, the conman and mass murderer, who escaped from the maximum security Tihar and later released.

As Uppili said, it's a thread to give life sentences to terrorists. The burden of safeguarding them all the time is huge. It's also a threat to the security of the country and its citizens. We can expect kidnappings (think the home minister's daughter(Mufti Mohammad Syed's daughter Rubaiya)  being kidnapped in exchange for the terrorists and the hijacking of the indian airlines flight to Khandahar and the demand for the release of the dreaded terrorists. The then home minister, Advani, shamelessly went to Khandahar and handed over the terrorists. A newly wedded bridegroom on his way back for his honeymoon lost his life.  "The hostage crisis lasted for seven days and ended after India agreed to release three militants – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood Azhar. These militants have since been implicated in other terrorist actions, such as 9/11, the kidnap and murder of Daniel Pearl and Mumbai terror attacks."-wiki. How many lives have been lost again?

btw, with the DNA technology, the criminal investigations and thereby the criminal justice system have improved tremendously. Cases such as the ones in the OP are becoming very rare. Can't hang on to the flaws 30 yrs ago to make some point now. No one will be sentenced to death without concrete, sure and solid evidence of the crime.

>>>With terrorists, there is potential for blackmail and hostage for prisoner exchange scenarios. That is a valid point.  One solution may be military courts to try terrorist charges and leave the death penalty option open for those courts. This is obviously a work around, but at least you are not penalizing (no pun intended) the general population for their doings. I agree with you on the life sentence having to mean life sentence and not some euphemism for 14 years.

Kris wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kris wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Why not ? when Kasab himself acknowledged the killings, CCTV showing evidence, scores of people providing evidence why should he be spared the death sentence if so given ?  Will someone suddenly show up claim Kasab is all lying ?

>>> I would be in favor of doing away with it and instead going the lifetime imprisonment route in the case of heinous crimes. That will eliminate the possibility of the wrongful execution in cases like Hilton's. However, it has to be with a guarantee from the state that a lifetime imprisonment means exactly that- no commutation, no technicality- driven releases, no lifetime really means 14 years or 14 months etc. In other words, a mass murderer cannot be out again in open society to kill more people.

The problem with these IS, Taliban terrorists is that as long as they are alive more lives are at risk as soon or later, there will be demand for the release/exchange of these killers.  It has happened before in India, US, and elsewhere.  So handing down death sentence for these will certainly save more lives in the future.

Would you not hang serial killers (who have no remorse) or those who "rip off" fetuses from pregnant women?  So the death sentence should be revisited and should be restricted to killers of "society" with strict checks/balances.   All the 142 releases from death rows are remnants of the yesteryear racism.  With technology such mistakes can be minimized. But, just as in anything there can be no 100% guarantee.

Good points there. Instead of blindly advocating to abolish death sentences for one and all, one has to consider these points. Yeah, it's kinda easy to talk against death sentences and anyone can do it to seem cool. But there are points to ponder:

When abolishing death sensences, life sentence should mean a complete life sentence, without the chance of a parole, without the possibility of the convict ever seeing the outside world. Will that be ensured? Has there been any convict in India who has been locked up for life till now? I very much doubt that. Life sentence in India was for a max of 14 yrs. (I know a couple (father and son) who've been sentenced to life imprisonment for a double murder, serving the sentence for only 7 yrs, instead of 14). Someone said it changed now. Dunno abt that. Even if it for the full life term, will it be ensured that the person will not see the light of the outside world? Highly doubt it. Think Charles Shobaraj, the conman and mass murderer, who escaped from the maximum security Tihar and later released.


As Uppili said, it's a threat to give life sentences to terrorists. The burden of safeguarding them all the time is huge. It's also a threat to the security of the country and its citizens. We can expect kidnappings (think the home minister's daughter(Mufti Mohammad Syed's daughter Rubaiya)  being kidnapped and released in exchange for the terrorists and the hijacking of the indian airlines flight to Khandahar and the demand for the release of the dreaded terrorists. The then home minister, Advani, shamelessly went to Khandahar and handed over the terrorists. A newly wedded bridegroom on his way back for his honeymoon lost his life. And.... "The hostage crisis lasted for seven days and ended after India agreed to release three militants – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood Azhar. These militants have since been implicated in other terrorist actions, such as 9/11, the kidnap and murder of Daniel Pearl and Mumbai terror attacks."-wiki. How many lives have been lost again?

btw, with the DNA technology, the criminal investigations and thereby the criminal justice system have improved tremendously. Cases such as the ones in the OP are becoming very rare. Can't hang on to the flaws 30 yrs ago to make some point now. No one will be sentenced to death without concrete, sure and solid evidence of the crime nowadays.

>>>With terrorists, there is potential for blackmail and hostage for prisoner exchange scenarios. That is a valid point.  One solution may be military courts to try terrorist charges and leave the death penalty option open for those courts. This is obviously a work around, but at least you are not penalizing (no pun intended) the general population for their doings. I agree with you on the life sentence having to mean life sentence and not some euphemism for 14 years.

yup!

*the typos in my previous post have been fixed here.

life sentences (without parole) in states that don't have the death sentence like MA are always for life. one reason for doing away the death sentence is to avoid mistakes. another is to be opposed to it in principle. more and more countries have abolished the death penalty. the US (in some states) and india are two amongst very few that have chosen to retain it.

america's death penalty in the US is in serious trouble in any case because worldwide the pharma companies that used to supply the lethal injection drugs are refusing to do so as they don't want their names associated with these drugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ? Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ?  Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ?  Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

OK...now to the other part of thepost that you "conveniently" ignored...

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ?  Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

OK...now to the other part of thepost that you "conveniently" ignored...

i didn't ignore it. i am sure there are opponents to the death penalty amongst the 189 + 1 innocent families. why do you think they are opposed to it despite losing family members? you are from the land of gandhi. why do you think he was opposed to the death penalty?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:life sentences (without parole) in states that don't have the death sentence like MA are always for life.

As long as the system is fool proof to let the dangerous convicts get locked up in prison for life, doing away with death penalty is fine. US is capable of that. India is not. Unless that is achieved, ppl can't talk against death penalties. Let's first talk abt improving the justice system, internal security in india before talking abt abolishing death penalties.  Ppl didn't want another plane hijacking and khandahar kinda incident wrt kasab and quite justly so.

Abolition of death penalty is a joke. Indian state uses encounter (all most always fake) to kill people without any fear of judicial reaction. Indian intellectuals should first talk about extra judicial killings before talking about legally sanctioned death penalty.

truthbetold wrote:Abolition of death penalty is a joke. Indian state uses encounter (all most always fake) to kill people without any fear of judicial reaction. Indian intellectuals should first talk about extra judicial killings before talking about legally sanctioned death penalty.

Even the police don't believe in the indian justice system. Hence the encounters. Improve the justice system first.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/most-boston-residents-prefer-life-term-over-death-penalty-in-marathon-case-poll-shows.html?

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ?  Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

OK...now to the other part of thepost that you "conveniently" ignored...

i didn't ignore it. i am sure there are opponents to the death penalty amongst the 189 + 1 innocent families. why do you think they are opposed to it despite losing family members? you are from the land of gandhi. why do you think he was opposed to the death penalty?

Are you doing a Rashmun on us ?..??? I am talking about YOUR views. You are assuming there may be opponents and next sentence you are make it a fact. By the same token there must be an overwhelming majority in that 189+1 who are for death penalty. Why do you think they are all for death penalty?

Gandhi was opposed to death penalty bcz until his death only Indians were being hung by the Brits and politically it was the most prudent.

So back to your comments on the 189+1....now...

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Didn't you state in a post where we were discussing some serial killer/rapist/kidnapping or some such crime that in THAT case you would approve death sentence ?  Perhaps, someone else might dig up and "re-post" your post here.

We are talking about India here. The moment a terrorist is put in jail - Gitmo or Tihar - he becomes a valuable prize/weapon.

Didn't the Kandahar hijacking resulted in the death of a newly wed groom ? The release of the three terrorists led to more terrorism in India to this day - including the Bombay bombings.

What is your comment on that and to the victims of the 1+189 innocent families?

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

OK...now to the other part of thepost that you "conveniently" ignored...

i didn't ignore it. i am sure there are opponents to the death penalty amongst the 189 + 1 innocent families. why do you think they are opposed to it despite losing family members? you are from the land of gandhi. why do you think he was opposed to the death penalty?

Are you doing a Rashmun on us ?..???  I am talking about YOUR views.  You are assuming there may be opponents and next sentence you are make it a fact.  By the same token there must be an overwhelming majority in that 189+1 who are for death penalty. Why do you think they are all for death penalty?

Gandhi was opposed to death penalty bcz until his death only Indians were being hung by the Brits and politically it was the most prudent.

So back to your comments on the 189+1....now...

i simply don't believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. no human being has the right to take the life of another. there are no conditions attached to my belief.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i said i am for chemical castration of child rapists.

OK...now to the other part of thepost that you "conveniently" ignored...

i didn't ignore it. i am sure there are opponents to the death penalty amongst the 189 + 1 innocent families. why do you think they are opposed to it despite losing family members? you are from the land of gandhi. why do you think he was opposed to the death penalty?

Are you doing a Rashmun on us ?..???  I am talking about YOUR views.  You are assuming there may be opponents and next sentence you are make it a fact.  By the same token there must be an overwhelming majority in that 189+1 who are for death penalty. Why do you think they are all for death penalty?

Gandhi was opposed to death penalty bcz until his death only Indians were being hung by the Brits and politically it was the most prudent.

So back to your comments on the 189+1....now...

i simply don't believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. no human being has the right to take the life of another. there are no conditions attached to my belief.

ya, even locking them up in the jails is so cruel. No families to live with, no career, no ambition, no purpose to live.... that's so cruel! No human has the right to lock another human up like that and ruin their lives.

Kinnera wrote:
ya, even locking them up in the jails is so cruel. No families to live with, no career, no ambition, no purpose to live.... that's so cruel! No human has the right to lock another human up like that and ruin their lives.

your needless sarcasm notwithstanding, my opinion is also the majority opinion in 140 countries of the world.

Kinnera wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Abolition of death penalty is a joke. Indian state uses encounter (all most always fake) to kill people without any fear of judicial reaction. Indian intellectuals should first talk about extra judicial killings before talking about legally sanctioned death penalty.

Even the police don't believe in the indian justice system. Hence the encounters. Improve the justice system first.

It is not a question who should go first. Independent India saw a rise in encounters since mid 1960s to crush revolts by landless labor and girijans. There is no change after 50 years.  Only difference is that more groups such as northeast extremists, religious nuts, and few rowdy sheeters are added to original groups of leftwing extremists. Civil rights mean very little in Indian context. 

So when I hear talk of abolition of death penalty in India, it sounds so meaningless to me.  
 
India's first and only priority is to increase job opportunities to reduce poverty. Everything else must wait for 20 years.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
ya, even locking them up in the jails is so cruel. No families to live with, no career, no ambition, no purpose to live.... that's so cruel! No human has the right to lock another human up like that and ruin their lives.

your needless sarcasm notwithstanding, my opinion is also the majority opinion in 140 countries of the world.

What happened to your own original thinking? the 140 countries probably have a good judicial and political system, unlike in india. Am i for abolishing the death penalty in US? Sure. They do have multiple life sentences without a chance of a parole so that the convict doesn't come out and become a threat to the public outside. A death penalty is not necessary in that case and i have full faith in the system that the sentence will be implemented.

Can the same be said about India? nopes. The same ideal can't fit all.

i have stated my own opinion. there is nothing original about having an opinion for or against an issue that has been around ever since organized human societies came into being. there is also no shame in stating that a large majority of people in the world share one's opinion.

for example, i am sure you agree that wife beating is not a nice thing. that's not an original thought, but one that you and i share with most of the people in the world.

truthbetold wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Abolition of death penalty is a joke. Indian state uses encounter (all most always fake) to kill people without any fear of judicial reaction. Indian intellectuals should first talk about extra judicial killings before talking about legally sanctioned death penalty.

Even the police don't believe in the indian justice system. Hence the encounters. Improve the justice system first.

It is not a question who should go first. Independent India saw a rise in encounters since mid 1960s to crush revolts by landless labor and girijans. There is no change after 50 years.  Only difference is that more groups such as northeast extremists, religious nuts, and few rowdy sheeters are added to original groups of leftwing extremists. Civil rights mean very little in Indian context. 

So when I hear talk of abolition of death penalty in India, it sounds so meaningless to me.  
 
India's first and only priority is to increase job opportunities to reduce poverty. Everything else must wait for 20 years.

That has been the #1 priority for 60 years and for 600 years more. Just because one has a job does not mean he is not into bombing or serial raping/killing...google for your own examples.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i have stated my own opinion. there is nothing original about having an opinion for or against an issue that has been around ever since organized human societies came into being. there is also no shame in stating that a large majority of people in the world share one's opinion.

for example, i am sure you agree that wife beating is not a nice thing. that's not an original thought, but one that you and i share with most of the people in the world.

so also lying, stealing, cheating, taking away one's freedom, etc.

Here's the scenario: you have a rabid dog running amok on the streets and hurting ppl. What does one have to do? lock it up for sometime and let it lose again on the streets so it will continue to hurt ppl or put it to sleep or develop a system where the rabid one is separated from others so it doesn't hurt them any more forever? You are advocating the first one. I am all for the last one, but if it's not feasible, i go with the second. That's in the larger interest of the society.


PS: I have ppl like Kasab in mind when I talk the above, not a husband who murdered his wife when he caught her cheating with his best friend.

Max: Do you support death sentence for THIS guy - if caught, tried, and convicted?

Ask him this. Does he support the death penalty for this guy?

Hellsangel wrote:Ask him this. Does he support the death penalty for this guy?

"Abolish death penalty"

Absolutely! Can we write a petition to God?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/04/alabama-death-row-anthony-ray-hilton

I'm in favor of death penalty with cheapest option.

Just waste 1 bullet to save taxpayer $.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:life sentences (without parole) in states that don't have the death sentence like MA are always for life. one reason for doing away the death sentence is to avoid mistakes. another is to be opposed to it in principle. more and more countries have abolished the death penalty. the US (in some states) and india are two amongst very few that have chosen to retain it.

america's death penalty in the US is in serious trouble in any case because worldwide the pharma companies that used to supply the lethal injection drugs are refusing to do so as they don't want their names associated with these drugs.

That's too much waster of taxpayer $.

Just 1 bullet should do the job.

Blanket death sentence for any and all killing and blanket opposition to death sentence are for selfish reasons of personal extremist views