State of Failure

by Hellsangel Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:48 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15109629

by Guest Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:03 pm

good article HA. it's funny how most of the muslims who migrated out of india (i was watching a lok sabha channel debate earlier this evening) were from bihar (mohajirs) and not punjab, rajasthan or gujarat. it is another matter that muslims from bengal decided to move to bangladesh -- it was a second religious division after the first failed one (by the british).

by artood2 Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:51 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:good article HA. it's funny how most of the muslims who migrated out of india (i was watching a lok sabha channel debate earlier this evening) were from bihar (mohajirs) and not punjab, rajasthan or gujarat. it is another matter that muslims from bengal decided to move to bangladesh -- it was a second religious division after the first failed one (by the british).

Facts from Lok Sabha debate!!!! haha!!

OTOTH, Why go to Pakistan when Bangladesh is nearer (to Bihar)?

by charvaka Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:48 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:good article HA. it's funny how most of the muslims who migrated out of india (i was watching a lok sabha channel debate earlier this evening) were from bihar (mohajirs) and not punjab, rajasthan or gujarat. it is another matter that muslims from bengal decided to move to bangladesh -- it was a second religious division after the first failed one (by the british).

AFAIK, a lot of Biharis actually ended up in Bangaldesh. (Many of them still remain in Bangladesh, and have been in a state of limbo for generations now.) Most of the Mohajirs are not from Bihar; they are from the United Provinces and Delhi, which, outside of the regions that became Pakistan / Bangladesh, had the highest concentrations of Muslims in British India. The original support for Partition did not come from Bengal or Punjab where Muslims were in a majority; it came from UP.

by Guest Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:23 am

artood2 wrote:Facts from Lok Sabha debate!!!! haha!!

no, not from a lok sabha debate but from a partition debate aired on lok sabha tv.

OTOTH, Why go to Pakistan when Bangladesh is nearer (to Bihar)?

many did go to bangladesh. some went to pakistan.

charvaka wrote:AFAIK, a lot of Biharis actually ended up in Bangaldesh. (Many of them still remain in Bangladesh, and have been in a state of limbo for generations now.) Most of the Mohajirs are not from Bihar; they are from the United Provinces and Delhi, which, outside of the regions that became Pakistan / Bangladesh, had the highest concentrations of Muslims in British India. The original support for Partition did not come from Bengal or Punjab where Muslims were in a majority; it came from UP.

yes, you are right. i had forgotten this. though the mohajir movement started in aligarh, i cannot get the numbers on the net for how many migrated from each province in india or a comparative figure.

by Guest Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:15 am

charvaka wrote:AFAIK, a lot of Biharis actually ended up in Bangaldesh...Most of the Mohajirs are not from Bihar; they are from the United Provinces and Delhi

ok, found something (which contradicts your assertion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bihari_Muslims#Disapora wrote:During the Partition of India in the summer of 1947 many Bihari Muslims migrated to both Pakistan and Bangladesh. The majority (approx 3 million) went to Pakistan and settled down in the Province of Sindh, especially in Karachi. The Pakistanis of Bihari origin are clubbed under Muhajirs. Those that went to Bangladesh lived in Dhaka where they remain till now. Many of them have gained voting rights and many are termed as stranded Pakistanis.

by Guest Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:50 am

artood2 wrote:OTOTH, Why go to Pakistan when Bangladesh is nearer (to Bihar)?

one of the reasons was that many of these bihari muslims were descendants of pathans -- many carrying the ubiquitous surname khan*. so migrating to west pakistan was a return to homeland for them (notwithstanding the fact that they finally settled in karachi). other reasons were the language barrier in bangladesh (the future of urdu in bangladesh was still uncertain i'd imagine). lastly, they must have followed the aligarh muslim movement, the proponents of which were arguing for a migration, of that area's people -- UP & delhi, to west pakistan.

* there were many muslims in bengal (now bangladesh) then who were similar descendants of pasthuns but they had adopted the local language over urdu.

by Guest Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:36 pm

*bump*

by charvaka Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
artood2 wrote:OTOTH, Why go to Pakistan when Bangladesh is nearer (to Bihar)?

one of the reasons was that many of these bihari muslims were descendants of pathans -- many carrying the ubiquitous surname khan*. so migrating to west pakistan was a return to homeland for them (notwithstanding the fact that they finally settled in karachi). other reasons were the language barrier in bangladesh (the future of urdu in bangladesh was still uncertain i'd imagine). lastly, they must have followed the aligarh muslim movement, the proponents of which were arguing for a migration, of that area's people -- UP & delhi, to west pakistan.

* there were many muslims in bengal (now bangladesh) then who were similar descendants of pasthuns but they had adopted the local language over urdu.

Thanks for posting this. I stand corrected. I was under the impression that Biharis mostly went to Bangladesh, probably because of the much-publicized plight of the Biharis after the independence of Bangladesh.

by artood2 Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:13 pm

I am not sure if Biharis are descendants of Pathans but language is a big consideration. A Mohajir was a second class citizen in Pakistan until Musharraf came to power. Karachi was the center of MQM (Mohajir Quami Movememnt) unrest before that.

by Guest Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:16 am

artood2 wrote:I am not sure if Biharis are descendants of Pathans but language is a big consideration. A Mohajir was a second class citizen in Pakistan until Musharraf came to power. Karachi was the center of MQM (Mohajir Quami Movememnt) unrest before that.

no not all bihari muslims are descendants of pathans but many are or style themselves as descendants of pathans. and many were poor unlike the rich descendants in the entertainment industry we are familiar with (who, otoh, were once poor). this diaspora was/is not confined to bihar and bengal/bangladesh but was/is found in in gujarat, mp, maharashtra, up and delhi also. i think we tend to underestimate the number of this diaspora. travelling through bihar, bengal and up, i have come across countless such muslims (who, of course, did not migrate). here's a list by provinces. UP leads the list.

yes, mohajirs were victimized by pashtuns in karachi.

by charvaka Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:19 am

Are Kabuliwalahs still around in Bengal?

by Guest Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:07 am

very much. they are an indelible part of the landscape here. once (or twice) a year they have a community meet in the maidan where they discuss their affairs and receive couriers from kabul and despatch messages, money, goods. their trade, moneylending, also flourishes: mainly among poor muslims of bengal.

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