I'm sure this is a random shooting

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:27 am

The suspect was identified as Omar Mateen, a 29-year-old U.S. citizen whose family is believed to be from Afghanistan. Federal officials are investigating Mateen's possible ties to radical terror organizations.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/orlando-fla-ap-gunman-wielding-000000701.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:41 am

How were the gun/s obtained? This is just the situation I had talked about many times on this board. Terrorism is always going to be with us. The easy availability of guns enables it.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 am

yeah, that's more important than the motive to shoot up a place on orders of his sky daddy

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:47 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:yeah, that's more important than the motive to shoot up a place on orders of his sky daddy

They are always going to have a motive. You and I cannot do anything about a screwed up way of thinking. We can only focus on what we can control. I'd also like to know about intelligence failures. Why didn't we pick this up if it was coordinated? If it was a lone gunman type situation like San Bernardino, there is nothing to do be done about that. Your party and its acolytes didn't even want to enact legislation that would prevent gun sales to terrorists.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:50 am

everything else is to be blamed except the elephant in the room, huh? ok then

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:51 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:everything else is to be blamed except the elephant in the room, huh? ok then

Exactly my thoughts, but I suspect we are thinking about different elephants. Radical Islamic terrorist scumbags are not going away anytime soon. But your party can stop enabling them. That we can and we should do. That's the elephant in the room that you can't seem to spot.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:53 am

How strict are the gun laws in France or Belgium? If you can't get guns, use planes. Stupid libbies are so focused on guns that they're willing to give terrorism pass.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:54 am

Hellsangel wrote:How strict are the gun laws in France or Belgium? If you can't get guns, use planes. Stupid libbies are so focused on guns that they're willing to give terrorism pass.

No one's giving terrorism a pass. But why are idiotic conservatives unwilling to pass legislation that bans gun sales to terrorists and deeper background searches?

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:56 am

I'm sure that quip makes you feel smart, but it only exposes your bias. not a word about islamic fundies and the legitimate fear concerning their ongoing immigration but focus on intelligence failures, republican party and nra...surprising you didnt work in trump, modi and chaddis into it somehow to complete the roundup of usual suspects.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:06 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:How strict are the gun laws in France or Belgium? If you can't get guns, use planes. Stupid libbies are so focused on guns that they're willing to give terrorism pass.

No one's giving terrorism a pass. But why are idiotic conservatives unwilling to pass legislation that bans gun sales to terrorists and deeper background searches?

Listen, Il Professore, there are millions of law-abiding gun owners. They're not out there acting like this is the wild west. Drunk driving is illegal, yet thousands are killed or maimed by drunk drivers each year. You tell me how to curb drunk driving. If you don't have a solution, don't try to impose your Libby biases on law-abiding gun owners. Most crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:07 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:

The suspect was identified as Omar Mateen, a 29-year-old U.S. citizen whose family is believed to be from Afghanistan. Federal officials are investigating Mateen's possible ties to radical terror organizations.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/orlando-fla-ap-gunman-wielding-000000701.html

Tell me one country where guns are not available.

If he had no guns, the MoFo iSlami would have taken the sword and killed a few. The link is clearely iSlam and the Koran and worse the Ramzan time. The more the muslims chant peace peace, the more the "few" jehaids they support scream "piece piece".

It may be fashionable in trying to sound all fair, secular, broad-minded, and imparitial intellectual. But only an absolute idiot will still blame guns than the more powerful destructive tools that most shooters have in their possession - kOran.

A couple of more of these Trump will be in.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:10 am

Or to use Il Professore's favorite recent example. Rape is illegal, yet thousands are raped each year. Why not have back ground checks for every penis owner?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:22 am

....

FP Staff Jun 12, 2016 17:02 IST

#Christina Grimmie #Florida nightclub shooting #Florida shooting #NewsTracker #Orlando #Orlando Police #Pulse night club #The Voice
73 Comments

48

3

Florida: In a shooting that took place at the Pulse nightclub at Florida, 50 people were killed and 53 injured, according to Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer.

"We have cleared the building, and it is with great sadness that I share we have not 20 but 50 casualties in addition to the shooter," Dyer told a news briefing. The City of Orlando has a declared state of emergency, tweeted the Orlando police.

Previously, it was reported that at least 20 were killed and 42 people injured. The shooting began early on Sunday, with Orlando police reporting "multiple injuries". At a press conference earlier in the day, the Orlando Police said that the 42 injured have been rushed to many hospitals.

The FBI has confirmed that there were no other immediate threats.

The gunman has been identified as Omar Mateen of Port St. Lucie, Florida. U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson identified the shooter in the Sunday incident. He cited law enforcement officials in speaking to reporters. CBS News said Mateen was born to Afghan parents in 1986.

Orlando Police, at a press conference, said that this was one of the worst mass shootings in America's history

NBC News spoke to Mateen's father Mir Seddique, who said that his son got angry, when he saw two men kissing in Miami, a couple of months ago. Seddique claimed that the shooting had nothing to do with religion and apologised for the incident.

Joke of the day. I bet the MoFo iSlami screamed "Allah-O-Akbar" while killing these people (I am sure he did not scream Holy Jesus or Rama Krishna Govinda), as any and every idiot can easily guess.

In that case, how is it not related to religion. Unless and until the politicos drop the drama of "pseudo-secular" Bullshyt statements and call it as it is, the real secularism will die replaced by Jehadism.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:43 am

his name aside, the gunman is an american born citizen of the US.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:23 pm

The politicians are going to say that their thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families and that now is not the time to politicize it. The NRA is either going to keep quiet or latch on to the terrorism angle. Sooner or later Drumpf is going to bring in and rekindle hatred against american Muslims and going to say, see I told you so. Obama will give another speech saying how he hates having to do this all over again. And then what? Wash, rinse, and repeat?

Another time I hear that the politicians are keeping the victims in their thoughts and prayers, I am going to go punch some dry wall. Why don't they take their thoughts and prayers and stick it where the sun doesn't shine?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:26 pm

I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:32 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.

Right...

I also want to know why no one is blaming iSlam and Koran for this act.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:49 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:his name aside, the gunman is an american born citizen of the US.

Born into a religion that values religion more than country.

by goodcitizn Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:52 pm

The gunman apparently made a 911 call to declare his allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston shootings. If he was on the FBI list as an ISIS sympathizer, how did he get the job as a security guard? With all the sympathy pouring in, how come there is not a single statement from the American Islamic organizations denouncing such a violent act during Holy Ramadan?

by goodcitizn Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:07 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.

Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

by goodcitizn Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:09 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:his name aside, the gunman is an american born citizen of the US.

Born into a religion that values religion more than country.

+1.

by goodcitizn Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:34 pm

goodcitizn wrote:The gunman apparently made a 911 call to declare his allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston shootings. If he was on the FBI list as an ISIS sympathizer, how did he get the job as a security guard? With all the sympathy pouring in, how come there is not a single statement from the American Islamic organizations denouncing such a violent act during Holy Ramadan?

Okay, Rasha Mubarak of the Orlando Regional Council of American-Islamic Relations has condemned this act.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:37 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

Stupid ivory-walled well dwelling libby frogs will want to use this as an excuse to impose their libby values.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:40 pm

He was just trying to follow the religious edict that Pakistan tried to codify.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Orlando-shooters-ex-wife-He-beat-me-He-was-violent-and-unstable-456548

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:02 pm

The administration is probably going soft on domestic terrorism for fear of offending any religion, which explains the FBI investigation yielding nothing.

by Propagandhi711 Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:22 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

blaming the usual go-tos will help avoid using the I-Tism word. we can conveniently skip that if enough noises are made about guns, nra, trump, racism....

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:01 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

do you know what percentage of weapons used in mass shootings have been bought illegally? and why is this an either or proposition? we can do logical and urgently needed things like preventing weapon sales to guys on watch lists AND do something about illegal gun sales. they aren't mutually exclusive.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

do you know what percentage of weapons used in mass shootings have been bought illegally? and why is this an either or proposition? we can do logical and urgently needed things like preventing weapon sales to guys on watch lists AND do something about illegal gun sales. they aren't mutually exclusive.

Do you know what percentage of homicide victims that were killed by guns were killed in mass shootings, Il Professore?

In case you don't want to answer here are the figures:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:16 pm

Legally purchased the guns that were used:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/atf-agent-orlando-shooter-purchased-his-guns-legally-in-last-few-days/

And he was on a watch list.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:19 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

do you know what percentage of weapons used in mass shootings have been bought illegally? and why is this an either or proposition? we can do logical and urgently needed things like preventing weapon sales to guys on watch lists AND do something about illegal gun sales. they aren't mutually exclusive.
Do you know what percentage of homicide victims that were killed by guns were killed in mass shootings, Il Professore?

In case you don't want to answer here are the figures:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

This thread is about mass shootings and terrorism. If you want to discuss your favorite hoary old chestnut, gang violence in black neighborhoods, start another thread.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:20 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I want to hear about why this guy was on the FBI watch list and nothing was done about it. I want to hear about how Republican obstinacy about background checks and preventing sales to terrorists enabled this guy. I want to know how this guy got his weapons. I don't want to hear about thoughts and prayers.
Blaming the Republican Party or the NRA is not going to solve anything. The real problem is the easy availability of illegal guns and assault weapons. This blackmarket must be eradicated by legal means.

do you know what percentage of weapons used in mass shootings have been bought illegally? and why is this an either or proposition? we can do logical and urgently needed things like preventing weapon sales to guys on watch lists AND do something about illegal gun sales. they aren't mutually exclusive.
Do you know what percentage of homicide victims that were killed by guns were killed in mass shootings, Il Professore?

In case you don't want to answer here are the figures:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

This thread is about mass shootings and terrorism. If you want to discuss your favorite hoary old chestnut, gang violence in black neighborhoods, start another thread.

Yeah right. Since you want to beat your favorite whipping boy, and point to everything but Islamic terrorism.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:24 pm

BTW

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html wrote:In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

by pravalika nanda Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:39 pm

before 9/11 americans used to completely dismiss any concerns in india about pak-supported terrorism or radical islam. now it's an american problem.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:44 pm

Hellsangel wrote:BTW

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html wrote:In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquor etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:50 pm

the guns that were used were purchased legally in the last few days:
http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/158080466-story

and he was on an FBI watch list. this is squarely on the republicans, the NRA, and the people who obstinately continue to support them in the face of overwhelming evidence that this path needs to be closed. what will it take?

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:BTW

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html wrote:In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquors etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

The only gullible persons are libbies like you, who will happily yield more and more control to government. People who want to commit mass murder in the name of their religion will a way - guns or no guns. The worst mass murder was committed with no guns on 9/11. But hey ivory-tower dwelling privileged libbies like you won't get it.

by pravalika nanda Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Legally purchased the guns that were used:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/atf-agent-orlando-shooter-purchased-his-guns-legally-in-last-few-days/

And he was on a watch list.

he was american, he had rights, he had a good life, he was allowed to purchase guns just like any other american and he turns around and shoots a vulnerable group of people instead.

and frankly the more people see these kinds of incidents the more they are likely to want to keep a gun for self-defense. before you jump into some convenient conclusions let me state clearly for you that i do think that the sale of firearms should be banned.

in the case of this guy i have often read that islam actually has violent punishments for gay people and i find it difficult to believe that he wasnt motivated by his religion.

this is also going to embolden trump and strengthen his numbers.

good luck, america.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the guns that were used were purchased legally in the last few days:
http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/158080466-story

and he was on an FBI watch list. this is squarely on the republicans, the NRA, and the people who obstinately continue to support them in the face of overwhelming evidence that this path needs to be closed. what will it take?

The FBI is it obviously treating domestic terrorism threat with kid gloves coz, uh, they don't want to be offending CAIR.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:57 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:BTW

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html wrote:In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquors etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

The only gullible person are libbies like you, who will happily yield more and more control to government. People who want to commit mass murder in the name of their religion will a way - guns or no guns. The worst mass murder was committed within guns on 9/11. But hey ivory-tower dwelling privileged libbies like you won't get it.

it's like groundhog day. we just keep repeating the same arguments every time. so here we go again. thieves will always find a way, yes, but that doesn't mean we should leave our doors unlocked. people who do bank heists will always find a way, but that doesn't mean we have no use for bank vaults. sex traffickers will always find ways to traffic kids, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws that protect children.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:00 pm

oh yeah and your party members are likely not going to get too exercised about this. the victims belong to a group they dislike anyway.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:BTW

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html wrote:In 2014, 9,967 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquors etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

The only gullible person are libbies like you, who will happily yield more and more control to government. People who want to commit mass murder in the name of their religion will a way - guns or no guns. The worst mass murder was committed within guns on 9/11. But hey ivory-tower dwelling privileged libbies like you won't get it.

it's like groundhog day. we just keep repeating the same arguments every time. so here we go again. thieves will always find a way, yes, but that doesn't mean we should leave our doors unlocked. people who do bank heists will always find a way, but that doesn't mean we have no use for bank vaults. sex traffickers will always find ways to traffic kids, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws that protect children.

Here we go again, you can't bring yourself to say Islamic terrorism is the problem. But instead want to bring up all your usual straw men. We get it, it is probably an unpopular position for a Libby academic to take but maybe you should face the facts.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:05 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:BTW

Why don't you want people to get a liquor license to consume liquor?

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquors etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

The only gullible person are libbies like you, who will happily yield more and more control to government. People who want to commit mass murder in the name of their religion will a way - guns or no guns. The worst mass murder was committed within guns on 9/11. But hey ivory-tower dwelling privileged libbies like you won't get it.

it's like groundhog day. we just keep repeating the same arguments every time. so here we go again. thieves will always find a way, yes, but that doesn't mean we should leave our doors unlocked. people who do bank heists will always find a way, but that doesn't mean we have no use for bank vaults. sex traffickers will always find ways to traffic kids, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws that protect children.
Here we go again, you can't bring yourself to say Islamic terrorism is the problem. But instead want to bring up all your usual straw men. We get it, it is probably an unpopular position for a Libby academic to take but maybe you should face the facts.

did you suddenly go blind? i have used those precise words twice in this thread.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:12 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

there is nothing that has the killing power (people killed/unit time) and easily accessible to people who want to kill in the US, than assault weapons like AR-15s. analogies with cars, knives, liquors etc are just designed by the NRA to obfuscate the issue and distract and collect gullible people like you to their cause.

and there is no use in harping about not talking about islam. i have already said radical islam is a huge problem, but you are not going to change the hearts and minds of millions of people who are sold on the correctness of their beliefs, no matter how badly you want that to happen. what you can do is protect yourself with robust intelligence gathering and sensible measures like preventing people on terror watch lists from accessing assault weapons. does this really need to be repeated so many times? if this simple point escapes you and others like you who unfortunately have legislative power, we have no hope.

The only gullible person are libbies like you, who will happily yield more and more control to government. People who want to commit mass murder in the name of their religion will a way - guns or no guns. The worst mass murder was committed within guns on 9/11. But hey ivory-tower dwelling privileged libbies like you won't get it.

it's like groundhog day. we just keep repeating the same arguments every time. so here we go again. thieves will always find a way, yes, but that doesn't mean we should leave our doors unlocked. people who do bank heists will always find a way, but that doesn't mean we have no use for bank vaults. sex traffickers will always find ways to traffic kids, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws that protect children.
Here we go again, you can't bring yourself to say Islamic terrorism is the problem. But instead want to bring up all your usual straw men. We get it, it is probably an unpopular position for a Libby academic to take but maybe you should face the facts.

did you suddenly go blind? i have used those precise words twice in this thread.

Then stick with that. Instead of getting on your soapbox about your usual straw men.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:15 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Then stick with that. Instead of getting on your soapbox about your usual straw men.

he may have been motivated by islam, but he was enabled by the NRA and rethuglicans' obstinacy about passing a simple logical legislation.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:20 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Then stick with that. Instead of getting on your soapbox about your usual straw men.

he may have been motivated by islam, but he was enabled by the NRA and rethuglicans' obstinacy about passing a simple logical legislation.

Maybe by the fact that the FBI has decided to go soft on domestic Islamic terrorism under this administration. A simple fact privileged libbies like you won't acknowledge.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:22 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Then stick with that. Instead of getting on your soapbox about your usual straw men.

he may have been motivated by islam, but he was enabled by the NRA and rethuglicans' obstinacy about passing a simple logical legislation.
Maybe by the fact that the FBI has decided to go soft on domestic Islamic terrorism under this administration. A simple fact privileged libbies like you won't acknowledge.

if the FBI do not have the legal tools they need because the rethuglicans block every sensible piece of legislation, they are going to be weakened more and more.

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Then stick with that. Instead of getting on your soapbox about your usual straw men.

he may have been motivated by islam, but he was enabled by the NRA and rethuglicans' obstinacy about passing a simple logical legislation.
Maybe by the fact that the FBI has decided to go soft on domestic Islamic terrorism under this administration. A simple fact privileged libbies like you won't acknowledge.

if the FBI do not have the legal tools they need because the rethuglicans block every sensible piece of legislation, they are going to be weakened more and more.

Yeah, blame the Republicans for Obambi's priorities and policies. Your idol can do no wrong.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:27 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325100/NRA-defends-blocking-bill-stop-terrorists-getting-guns-emerges-TWO-THOUSAND-suspected-extremists-freely-purchased-firearms-U-S.html

by Hellsangel Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325100/NRA-defends-blocking-bill-stop-terrorists-getting-guns-emerges-TWO-THOUSAND-suspected-extremists-freely-purchased-firearms-U-S.html

A criteria that even the ACLU has criticized. Are you suddenly in opposition to the ACLU, Il Professore?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:32 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325100/NRA-defends-blocking-bill-stop-terrorists-getting-guns-emerges-TWO-THOUSAND-suspected-extremists-freely-purchased-firearms-U-S.html
A criteria that even the ACLU has criticized. Are you suddenly in opposition to the ACLU, Il Professore?

i don't support an organization blindly. if the ACLU is opposed to this, then in this instance i disagree with the ACLU. if you are on a watch list or if you are a suspected of terrorism, i want the government to hold off on selling guns to you until you are properly investigated.

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