bedrock of american economy and foreign policy

contractual adherence and enforcement of contracts by law are two ideas that are foundational to american business, and is the reason why over the last two centuries the world has flocked to the US and why the US economy has done so well. so too foreign policy -- when the US give you its word, it stands by it. by contrast the orangegutan has flouted every law, has a string of bankruptcies trailing him, and lies blatantly. these are very unamerican qualities. if the mob that's rooting for him has its way, we are doomed.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:contractual adherence and enforcement of contracts by law are two ideas that are foundational to american business, and is the reason why over the last two centuries the world has flocked to the US and why the US economy has done so well. so too foreign policy -- when the US give you its word, it stands by it. by contrast the orangegutan has flouted every law, has a string of bankruptcies trailing him, and lies blatantly. these are very unamerican qualities. if the mob that's rooting for him has its way, we are doomed.

oh i forgot to my mention this in my reply to swap-na in the other thread, the frequency of the max/ohara "sky-will-fall-if" posts is directly proportional to trump's standing in the polls.

Take a chill pill, man! The world won't end and the sky won't fall.

garam-kuta wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:contractual adherence and enforcement of contracts by law are two ideas that are foundational to american business, and is the reason why over the last two centuries the world has flocked to the US and why the US economy has done so well. so too foreign policy -- when the US give you its word, it stands by it. by contrast the orangegutan has flouted every law, has a string of bankruptcies trailing him, and lies blatantly. these are very unamerican qualities.  if the mob that's rooting for him has its way, we are doomed.

oh i forgot to my mention  this in my reply to swap-na in the other thread, the frequency of the max/ohara "sky-will-fall-if" posts is directly proportional to trump's standing in the polls.

a) i am not scarlet o'hara.
b) you haven't said anything earth-shattering. of course i get more worried as the orange monkey's numbers improve.

silvermani wrote:Take a chill pill, man! The world won't end and the sky won't fall.

i am afraid it will this time.

for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble. i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble.  i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

One has to choose the lesser of the two evils. Are you comfortable opening the doors to thousands who come from a culture and belief system which doesn't believe in secularism, has no respect for other religions, is against gays and lesbians, looks down upon women, looks at the world with the view of 'us and them'? Some of its ppl could be radicalized and have no qualms to resort to terrorism and hurt the 'other'. I don't want US to become another Germany or another France or another Belgium or have it go to the point of desperation of Brexit.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble.  i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

One has to choose the lesser of the two evils. Are you comfortable opening the doors to thousands who come from a culture and belief system which doesn't believe in secularism, has no respect for other religions, is against gays and lesbians, looks down upon women, looks at the world with the view of 'us and them'? Some of its ppl could be radicalized and have no qualms to resort to terrorism and hurt the 'other'. I don't want US to become another Germany or another France or another Belgium or have it go to the point of desperation of Brexit.

There is no chance the US will become like Europe when it comes to unbridled refugee immigration. If you think that, you are thoroughly unfamiliar with the asylum process and the immigration laws of the US, despite being an immigrant yourself. US immigration is one of the toughest in the world with multiple checks and balances. However, there is no way to reduce the possibility to zero. There is always the chance that someone who came in legally satisfying all checks and balances radicalizes after getting here. There is also the chance that someone who was born and raised here radicalizes in adulthood. There is no way to stop that. If you think the orange monkey is going to stop that, good luck to you.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble.  i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

One has to choose the lesser of the two evils. Are you comfortable opening the doors to thousands who come from a culture and belief system which doesn't believe in secularism, has no respect for other religions, is against gays and lesbians, looks down upon women, looks at the world with the view of 'us and them'? Some of its ppl could be radicalized and have no qualms to resort to terrorism and hurt the 'other'. I don't want US to become another Germany or another France or another Belgium or have it go to the point of desperation of Brexit.

There is no chance the US will become like Europe when it comes to unbridled refugee immigration. If you think that, you are thoroughly unfamiliar with the asylum process and the immigration laws of the US, despite being an immigrant yourself. US immigration is one of the toughest in the world with multiple checks and balances. However, there is no way to reduce the possibility to zero. There is always the chance that someone who came in legally satisfying all checks and balances radicalizes after getting here. There is also the chance that someone who was born and raised here radicalizes in adulthood. There is no way to stop that. If you think the orange monkey is going to stop that, good luck to you.

Live in your own lala la world. No, the orange monkey may not stop the radicalization, but will reduce the chances by not opening the flood gates to all those ppl coming in. The grandma will surely increase the chances by bringing in scores and scores of them.

I was in Dubai recently. The city has only 17% locals. The rest are immigrant workers. No, none of the outsiders can have the citizenship of the country. They are and will always remain outsiders. Why doesn't it give citizenship like the western countries? Why not? All hell will break loose if a western country does that. 
And it's a very affluent city. We see petro dollars at work everywhere. So...why can't these people accept the refugees? Why are the western countries obligated to take them in?

 The city tour guide started the tour from a very affluent areas with beautiful homes called Jumeira. The city tour guide declares, 'this is where the locals live. No outsider is allowed to own property here. They can rent from the locals, but they can't buy it.' Really? What's with this segregation? You can't imagine such things in the western world. 

The tour ends at old dubai where the immigrants live. 'Their living condition is nothing like that of the locals. They live in ghettos.' How sad! The immigrants aren't integrated into the main stream, on par with the locals. Aren't those poor souls in the ghettos turn into terrorists? (the reason the libbies give for muslim radicalization in the western societies)

There's a mosque every couple of miles, but i didn't see even a single temple or church anywhere. Maybe they are not allowed despite having so many people of other faiths. That's the secularism that the country follows.

No, no pork anywhere either. Strictly prohibited. no, not even in the western five star hotel. 

Dubai is supposed to be the most progressive city. Can imagine how it would be in the other countries. 

Anyway the point is, why isn't any of the affluent muslim country taking in any of the refugees?

FluteHolder wrote:One has to choose the lesser of the two evils.
>>
Though I may never vote for either, you have to see this as similar to TN people in voting for arrogant AMMA or moronic KARUNA? They have to choose better among the 2.

Yeah...it's a shame that we have such crappy candidates this time.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble.  i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

you want to be differentiated? since you like orange so much, he might assign orange lotus, to be stitched on your clothes, to differentiate Indian Hindus from other brown people. Green moon suits well for muslims, and so on. Maybe add stars for Bangladeshis, no wait, that will go back to Jews.

Poisonous mushrooms to poisonous skittles, earth does go round.

Scarlet O'Hara wrote:
you want to be differentiated?

no. i want to be as anonymous and ignored as the average white person in a crowd.

Oh yeah...the paranoia of the white american i see here is similar to the paranoia created by the libbies about modi voters. Anyone who supported him were labelled as  chuddies, the hindutva forces, the intolerant, the ignorant and uneducated, etc and hinduism was projected as an intolerant religion, which is against secularism, intolerant of other religions, yada yada...and the country is going to be doomed if modi is elected, etc. 

Half the country supports Trump, as of the polls now. So, are you guys saying that all immigrants need to fear them coz they are the monsters? Are you guys trying to say that white americans are bad? Jeez!

Asking for strict vetting of the refugees is not islamophobia. When congress was letting in thousands of bangladeshi immigrants illegally and issuing them the adhaar cards/ration cards scrupulously so they can vote for them...it changed the demography of the region and is causing law and order problems and thorough resentment of the locals. No wonder Assam went to BJP in the assembly poll this time. The democratic party is trying to do the same now here wrt the muslim refugees. They want to turn the whole of america blue slowly. They know that muslims are going to always vote for democrats...so bring them in! It doesn't matter what it does to the country.

Kinnera wrote:They know that muslims are going to always vote for democrats, so bring them in.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/republicans-muslim-vote-george-w-bush-donald-trump/419481/

Kinnera wrote:
Asking for strict vetting of the refugees is not islamophobia.

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

What happens once a refugee is referred to the U.S.?

Our government performs its own intensive screening, a process that includes consultation from nine different government agencies. They meet weekly to review a refugee’s case file and, if appropriate, determine where in the U.S. the individual should be placed. When choosing where to place a refugee, officials consider factors such as existing family in the U.S., employment possibilities and special factors like access to needed medical treatment.

How do we know the refugees aren’t terrorists?

Every refugee goes through an intensive vetting process, but the precautions are increased for Syrians. Multiple law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies perform “the most rigorous screening of any traveler to the U.S.,” says a senior administration official. Among the agencies involved are the State Department, the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. A DHS officer conducts in-person interviews with every applicant. Biometric information such as fingerprints are collected and matched against criminal databases. Biographical information such as past visa applications are scrutinized to ensure the applicant’s story coheres.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:They know that muslims are going to always vote for democrats, so bring them in.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/republicans-muslim-vote-george-w-bush-donald-trump/419481/

Minuscule! As many muslims vote for bjp as they vote for republicans. Though their faith doesn't agree with most of the so called 'libbie' policies of the democrats, they are going to vote for them. Why do you think the dems are so keen to bring them here? Vote bank politics! Same thing in Europe too.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
Asking for strict vetting of the refugees is not islamophobia.

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

What happens once a refugee is referred to the U.S.?

Our government performs its own intensive screening, a process that includes consultation from nine different government agencies. They meet weekly to review a refugee’s case file and, if appropriate, determine where in the U.S. the individual should be placed. When choosing where to place a refugee, officials consider factors such as existing family in the U.S., employment possibilities and special factors like access to needed medical treatment.

How do we know the refugees aren’t terrorists?

Every refugee goes through an intensive vetting process, but the precautions are increased for Syrians. Multiple law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies perform “the most rigorous screening of any traveler to the U.S.,” says a senior administration official. Among the agencies involved are the State Department, the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. A DHS officer conducts in-person interviews with every applicant. Biometric information such as fingerprints are collected and matched against criminal databases. Biographical information such as past visa applications are scrutinized to ensure the applicant’s story coheres.

Whatever vetting they do, it may not help much in the long run. They or their children could be radicalized in future. Aren't we seeing that now? The home grown muslim terrorists? Some of those terrorists were born here to immigrant parents or came to US when they were little kids. That didn't stop them from being radicalized. The more their numbers, the more the chances of terrorism in the country. 

You never answered my question. Read my dubai post above again.

Kinnera wrote:

You never answered my question. Read my dubai post above again.

I don't usually respond to posts I agree with. I happen to agree with your stance on the hypocrisy of middle east countries in not accepting refugees. In fact the energy of the immigrant refugees may benefit their economy where the locals are born retired (see here for a very nice article Rashmun posted a while ago: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/04/dubai-201104).

FluteHolder wrote:Though I may never vote for either, you have to see this as similar to TN people in voting for arrogant AMMA or moronic KARUNA? They have to choose better among the 2.

This election is more about who you DO NOT want to take over the white house. We all know either candidate is not the ideal choice.

Got to give Trump the credit though, for pulling one of the largest-scale cons of the century. People actually believe every bullshit coming out of his mouth. Amazing job.

I read on some social media a person saying, 'He is not a politician, he is one of us. He is frustrated with the system and wants to fix it'.

Huh? One of us? He is not 'one of us', unless you also are a brash billionaire inviting elite politicians to your wedding. He is one of NO one but himself. Frustrated with the system? He MILKED the system. He bullied and bribed his way into most financial gains and out of most legal/criminal troubles.

Not to mention his violent streak. His own ex-wife accused him of violent rape. So did one his business associate's wife. And if the child rape story is true, it portrays an even uglier picture of him.

Add to it various write-ups by people who co-wrote his so called famous books, or did big interviews, who all say he has a very short attention span, and even more volatile temperament. His popular tv-show Apprentice image, that has appealed to millions, was something carefully crafted by NBC folks. He will say anything to get public attention, and he will back that out again for the next public moment. One example below (a long but a good read): 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

He will keep Mexicans out? he will keep muslims out? Complete ban? where will this end? how will this work? how will he go about getting such laws passed? What will he do if he can't make such laws passed? Saying all Mexicans are rapists and all muslims are terrorists may get him to the post, but it's not going to do anything to execute anything constructive.

Do we realize that people who have the mentality of banning a certain group do not stop at that? The group he is against right now may work for you today, but is extremely harmful in the long term, especially if you are the next target. Such extremist people should never get to power.

He has no respect for laws. the other day he was lamenting how the bombing suspect will be given a trial.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/19/donald_trump_on_the_right_to_counsel_for_ahmad_khan_rahami.html

What happens if this practice becomes mainstream? What if one of our family members is wrongfully suspected of something? Will they be tortured, not given a right to represent themselves, will the whole family be tortured as well? 

People who are opposing him are not just 'libbies', as if that's a curse word these days. It's a serious concern coming from all kinds of people. But Clinton has a HUGE task to win over this group in next few weeks (watch the video on stats):

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/21/news/economy/white-working-class-government/index.html

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when the US give you its word, it stands by it.

I disagree. the u.s. flouts laws, agreements, and pacts, especially those that are international, when it is to its advantage to do so. 

it does make specious arguments that its actions did not violate any law, agreement, or pact. those arguments are usually unconvincing because they cite u.s. laws which don't apply in the countries in which they took the action.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:for the few indians on this board whose support of the orange monkey is difficult to fathom -- remember that his xenophobia knows no bounds. he and his supporters are not the sort of people who know the difference between pakistanis, bangladeshis, assorted middle-easterners, and indians. you're just another brown person -- foreign, probably one of those dreaded muslims, possibly a terrorist, and likely to cause trouble. i hope you are comfortable with what he thinks of you when you go to the polls.

i don't think there are any trump supporters in this board. there are only anti-hillary people.
the point to ponder is this.
if you find trump supporters (rather anti-hillary people) even in an indian board where there are concerns that they may be racially profiled but still the opposition to hillary trumps their concern, imagine the white majority voters who don't have such concerns.
saamiyaar(where is he?) correctly predicted(a rare case for him) how polarising she will turn out to be.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
Asking for strict vetting of the refugees is not islamophobia.

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

What happens once a refugee is referred to the U.S.?

Our government performs its own intensive screening, a process that includes consultation from nine different government agencies. They meet weekly to review a refugee’s case file and, if appropriate, determine where in the U.S. the individual should be placed. When choosing where to place a refugee, officials consider factors such as existing family in the U.S., employment possibilities and special factors like access to needed medical treatment.

How do we know the refugees aren’t terrorists?

Every refugee goes through an intensive vetting process, but the precautions are increased for Syrians. Multiple law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies perform “the most rigorous screening of any traveler to the U.S.,” says a senior administration official. Among the agencies involved are the State Department, the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. A DHS officer conducts in-person interviews with every applicant. Biometric information such as fingerprints are collected and matched against criminal databases. Biographical information such as past visa applications are scrutinized to ensure the applicant’s story coheres.

you mean the screening process will be handled by such professional agencies as
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/20/494730559/u-s-accidentally-grants-citizenship-to-more-than-850-immigrants
if they can't properly vet people already in the country and whose fingerprints are available in databases, imagine them screening people from a far away country where proper records do not exist.
all these agencies are only good for creating obstacles and harassing law-abiding people.