Akbar, Father of H-M synthesis in modern Indian cuisine

by Guest Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:52 am

During Akbar period (1556 AD) Akbar sets up a royal kitchen employing over 400 cooks including many Rajputs. It was this royal kitchen where Hindu cooks fused Persian and Hindustani cooking techniques, and ingredient to create new Royal dishes. These foods have come to be known as Mughalai Cuisine.... Babar planted fruits, Humayun introduced some Iranian dishes, but the fusion of Iran and Hindustan dishes did not start till Akbar. This fusion came to be known as Mughalai Cuisine.

Therefore, in my opinion Akbar was the father of modern Indian Cuisine. I have included some the recipes from Akbar period and I have also interpreted some these recipes.

http://www.indiacurry.com/faqhistory/hfaqfathercuisine.htm

by confuzzled dude Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:36 am

What? Akbar is father of Idli, Dosa, Pesarattu?

by Guest Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:00 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:What? Akbar is father of Idli, Dosa, Pesarattu?

i am not claiming that. But he (or strictly speaking the chefs patronized by him) made a definite contribution to several important elements which make up modern Indian cuisine. For example:

In India, the iconic kulfi was introduced by the Mughals. Made with snow, harvested from the Himalayas, it was prepared with reduced milk and was introduced to the royal kitchens during the reign of Akbar.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/trends/frosty-feasts/101009.html

by Guest Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Kulfi was originally made using snow procured from the Himalayas. Later on, the mughals discovered that they could make ice by mixing salt petre in water. Besides Kulfi, the snow/ice was also used for making various cooling iced drinks (sharbats) at the Mughal court.

by Seva Lamberdar Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:12 pm

Rashmun wrote:Kulfi was originally made using snow procured from the Himalayas. Later on, the mughals discovered that they could make ice by mixing salt petre in water. Besides Kulfi, the snow/ice was also used for making various cooling iced drinks (sharbats) at the Mughal court.

Did mughlas mix saltpetre into water making the latter turn into ice?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:15 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:What? Akbar is father of Idli, Dosa, Pesarattu?

How do you think Jalaluddin got the title Akbar? He was also the father of the following:

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2016/09/01/toronto-zoo-welcomes-baby-camel/male-bactrian-camel-calf--toronto-zoo-3.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x734.jpg

http://img.xcitefun.net/users/2015/01/376741,xcitefun-baby-donkey-6.jpg

http://www.minipiginfo.com/uploads/5/4/3/0/54308893/1450011941.png

http://www.holidogtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/baby-horse-cover_720.png

by Guest Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:46 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Kulfi was originally made using snow procured from the Himalayas. Later on, the mughals discovered that they could make ice by mixing salt petre in water. Besides Kulfi, the snow/ice was also used for making various cooling iced drinks (sharbats) at the Mughal court.
Did mughlas mix saltpetre into water making the latter turn into ice?

read the 'Historical Background' section (pages 4-5) of this paper:

http://www.academia.edu/1136936/Reviving_the_Use_of_Saltpetre_for_Refrigeration_a_Period_Technique

by Guest Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:19 pm

there is some south indian connection with Akbar's eating habits: the mughal emperor enjoyed eating curd rice as this article correctly says:

Imagine what a scandal it would be when, centuries later, they discover that the emperor of emperors, conqueror of conquerors, was a closet vegetarian. Tauba! Won’t history judge him for eating just once a day? Or for starting a meal with curd and rice (curd and rice!) when the imperial kitchen is battle-ready to produce a hundred dishes at a twitch?

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/WeqgReVP4p8FPMI13QddnJ/Resurrecting-recipes-Fowl-play-at-Akbars-court.html

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:03 pm

Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

by Guest Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:39 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

----

from VA Smith's 'Akbar the Great Moghul':

Akbar was a foreigner in India. He had not a drop of
Indian blood in his veins. On the father's side he was
a direct descendant in the seventh generation from Marlowe's
Tamerlane, the great Amir Timur, a Central Asian Turk. In
some manner, the exact nature of which is not known, he
was descended through a female from the same stock as
Chingiz Khan, the Mongol ' scourge of Asia ' in the thirteenth
century. The particular branch of the Turks to which
Akbar's ancestors belonged was known by the name of
Chagatai or Jagatai, because they dwelt in the regions
beyond the Oxus which had formed part of the heritage of
Chagatai or Jagatai, the second son of Chingiz.

The blood of the Turki tribes in Central Asia was much blended with
that of the Mongols. Jahanglr, Akbar's son, recognized the
relationship by priding himself on observing the customs
of Chingiz as well as the regulations of Timur. ' Mogul ',
the designation by which European writers usually indicate
the Timurid dynasty of India, is merely another form of
' Mongol '. Akbar was much more a Turk than a Mongol
or Mogul, and his mother was a Persian.

The character of Akbar, so far as it depended upon
heredity, was thus based on three distinct non-Indian
strains of blood existing in his proximate ancestors, namely,
the Turk or Turki, the Mongol or Mogul, and the Persian
or Iranian strains. The manners and customs of his court
exhibited features which were derived from all the three
sources, Turki, Mongol, and Iranian. During the early
years of his reign Indian influences counted for little, the
officers and courtiers surrounding him being divided into
two parties, the Turks— Mongol or Chagatai and Uzbeg —
on the one side, and the Persians on the other. But after
Akbar had attained maturity the pressure exercised by his
Indian environment rapidly increased, so that in sentiment
he became less and less of a foreigner, until in the later
years of his life he had become more than half an Hindu.
His personal conduct was then guided mainly by Hindu
dharma,* or rules of duty, modified considerably by the
precepts of Iranian Zoroastrianism. The Turki and Mongol
elements in his nature were kept so much in the background
that he was reputed by Hindus to be a reincarnation of
a Brahman sage.

https://archive.org/stream/akbargreatmogul100smituoft/akbargreatmogul100smituoft_djvu.txt

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:32 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

by Guest Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:35 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:45 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.

what part of central Asia? The link to Indian / Hindustani music and food from that in central Asia (including Mongolia) seems even weaker than from the Middle East etc.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 am

The only proper music for Muslims is "iSlamic Sama Veda" directed towards the authoritarian Gaud. Other Musics (directed at anything other than Gaud) are blasphemy. So, if there is music in central Asia, it must be pre-iSlamic. Hence, belongs to Native and Pagan cultures (that had links with other parts of the Ancient world). Semitic faiths have strictly prescribed food (preparation and ingredients). They could not be responsible for all these foods that Rashmun is peddling. Same goes for a lot of other things - Muslim architecture (belongs to pre-iSlamic Persia), Muslim math (belongs to older cultures like India and others), Muslim Science (belongs to older cultures), etc.

The only things original to Muslims (central Asian or Aabic) are: to smell the donkeys and camels, lifting their buts while facing the Pagan rock at the centre of Arab hegemony, calling non-believers infidels and kafirs, and wiping their butts with rocks when they relieve themselves. Real iSlam does not allow changes to the 7th century dogma. Therefore, Science, Math, logic, developments in food, music, etc., etc., are outside this dogma. PBUH won't allow that. Mountains are placed on earth to stop earth quakes and the moon is much larger than the stars..........

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:34 am

iSlamic "Sama Veda":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolV-slw_AM

Real Sama Veda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5ecFZDe6z4

by Guest Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 am

Emperor Jahangir (reign 1605—1627) was a great patron of the arts whose fondness for wine was well known. The emperor also had a passion for objects made of jade or jadelike hardstones and is said to have owned five hundred such cups. This one is made from a rare hardstone, the carving of which would have required great skill and patience. The Persian inscription contains mystical allusions to imperial power and its connection with ‘the water of life’ (wine). Although drinking was forbidden in Islam, some Mughal rulers regarded it as a means of achieving spiritual transcendence.

Because jade was not readily available in India during the rule of the Mughal emperors, jade-like stones were used to make imperial gifts, such as this wine cup.

Although Quranic law forbids the consumption of alcohol, Emperor Jahangir was known for his fondness of wine. The inscription, carved on the borders at both rim and foot, begins, “This is the cup of water [of life], nourisher of the soul / Of King Jahangir [son of] King Akbar.” At the bottom is the Hijri date 1021, or 1612, the seventh year of Jahangir’s reign.

http://risdmuseum.org/art_design/objects/493_wine_cup_of_emperor_jahangir

by Guest Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:22 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Akbar was born and brought up in India and therefore a Hindustani by birth and bringing up. Thus there is no question for his contributions, directly or indirectly, in music or cuisine etc. to be considered as having the mughal connection or labeled as mughalai. They inherently, by virtue of Akbar's birth and bringing up in India, were nothing but Indian / Hindustani.

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.
what part of central Asia? The link to Indian / Hindustani music and food from that in central Asia (including Mongolia) seems even weaker than from the Middle East etc.

there were elements of persian culture ingrained in mughal culture despite the mughals coming from central asia. this is because both babur and humayun requested (and received) refuge from the Persian king of their time after they were driven away by their enemies. (Sher Shah Suri in the case of Humayun; Shaybani Khan in the case of Babur.) And hence both Babur and Humayun became persianised to an extent. Akbar's mother was a persian.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:53 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

this is a somewhat inaccurate assessment.

I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.
what part of central Asia? The link to Indian / Hindustani music and food from that in central Asia (including Mongolia) seems even weaker than from the Middle East etc.

there were elements of persian culture ingrained in mughal culture despite the mughals coming from central asia. this is because both babur and humayun requested (and received) refuge from the Persian king of their time after they were driven away by their enemies. (Sher Shah Suri in the case of Humayun; Shaybani Khan in the case of Babur.) And hence both Babur and Humayun became persianised to an extent. Akbar's mother was a persian.

just because I lived for some time in the Middle East while working, does that qualify me to call cooked in my house (by me especially) as Arabian or Middle Eastern food? No. The same thing about Humayun et al. living for a short time in Persia or Akbar having a Persian mother (perhaps from Afghanistan, which was then a part of India) does not lead to Hidnustani / Indian cuisine having the Mughal connection.

by Guest Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:54 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
I was working in the MiddleEast and became quite familiar with Local food and music there. They are different from the Indian / Hindustani food and classical music, no matter what Rashmun says about the current Indian / Hindustani food and music having been influenced long ago by Akbar and others with Mughal, Mongol or other outside flavors.

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.
what part of central Asia? The link to Indian / Hindustani music and food from that in central Asia (including Mongolia) seems even weaker than from the Middle East etc.

there were elements of persian culture ingrained in mughal culture despite the mughals coming from central asia. this is because both babur and humayun requested (and received) refuge from the Persian king of their time after they were driven away by their enemies. (Sher Shah Suri in the case of Humayun; Shaybani Khan in the case of Babur.) And hence both Babur and Humayun became persianised to an extent. Akbar's mother was a persian.

just because I lived for some time in the Middle East while working, does that qualify me to call cooked in my house (by me especially) as Arabian or Middle Eastern food? No. The same thing about Humayun et al. living for a short time in Persia or Akbar having a Persian mother (perhaps from Afghanistan, which was then a part of India) does not lead to Hidnustani / Indian cuisine having the Mughal connection.

Humayun spent several years in Persia. Persian cooks were among those employed in the royal Mughal kitchen. Please do not compare yourself with a Mughal King.

by southindian Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:28 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Mughals came to India from central asia, not middle east.
what part of central Asia? The link to Indian / Hindustani music and food from that in central Asia (including Mongolia) seems even weaker than from the Middle East etc.

there were elements of persian culture ingrained in mughal culture despite the mughals coming from central asia. this is because both babur and humayun requested (and received) refuge from the Persian king of their time after they were driven away by their enemies. (Sher Shah Suri in the case of Humayun; Shaybani Khan in the case of Babur.) And hence both Babur and Humayun became persianised to an extent. Akbar's mother was a persian.

just because I lived for some time in the Middle East while working, does that qualify me to call cooked in my house (by me especially) as Arabian or Middle Eastern food? No. The same thing about Humayun et al. living for a short time in Persia or Akbar having a Persian mother (perhaps from Afghanistan, which was then a part of India) does not lead to Hidnustani / Indian cuisine having the Mughal connection.

Humayun spent several years in Persia. Persian cooks were among those employed in the royal Mughal kitchen. Please do not compare yourself with a Mughal King.

Upa Ma'am,

You are wrong.

Akbar, his father, kids and Harem wives came to USA on H1-B visa. They did not go to Persia. He's cook in a restaurant in New Jersey.

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