This is really sick (Rashmun, what do you think about this?)

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2784876.ece

Dignity denied even in death for Vrindavan widows


The bodies of widows who die in government-run shelter homes in Vrindavan are taken away by sweepers at night, cut into pieces, put into jute bags and disposed of as the institutions do not have any provision for a decent funeral. This, too, is done only after the inmates give money to the sweeper!

This shocking fact has come to light in a survey by the District Legal Services Authority (DLSA) on the “Plight of Forsaken/Forlorn Women — Old and Widows Living in Vrindavan and Radius.”

Taking cognisance of a report published in The Hindu on August 11 on the plight of the widows living in Vrindavan in Mathura district of Uttar Pradesh, Justice Altamash Kabir, Executive Chairperson of the National Legal Services Authority, had asked the U.P. State Legal Services Authority to survey the conditions of the women.

The terms of reference also included ascertaining whether there were peculiar family circumstances which led to abandonment of the women by their families or children which was actionable under Section 24 of the Maintenance and Welfare of Parents and Senior Citizens Act, 2007.

The report, a copy of which is available with The Hindu, has recommended that the District Magistrates be directed to protect the property and property rights of these women. It wanted them to take necessary steps to restore the property to the destitute women in accordance with law which would facilitate their return home and enable them to lead a dignified life.

It has also suggested that legal aid clinics be set up to generate awareness among these women about various Acts and their rights and provide assistance wherever needed.

The District Legal Services Authority in its report quoted Mithilesh Solanki, a widow living in Swadhar Mahila Ashray Kendra, Chaitanya Vihar (Vrindavan), to reveal the “sorry state of affairs and disheartening fact that sweepers take away the dead bodies in the night, cut them into pieces and dispose them of in jute bags.”

The institution, started by the Union Ministry of Women and Child Development in 2006 and run by a non-governmental organisation Akhil Bharatiya Maa Sharda Samaj Kalyan Samiti, does not undertake the responsibility of arranging funerals.

Similar conditions prevail in another residential institution established by the U.P. Mahila Samaj Kalyan Nigam — the only of its kind run by the State government under its Meera Sahbhagini scheme.

The report, prepared by Sapna Tripathi, ACJM and Vijay Bahadur Yadav, chairman (DLSA) and district judge, Mathura along with some other members is based on personal interaction with the widows and the data provided by the government and non-government agencies. The official figures provided by the District Probation Office and Social Welfare Department at Mathura puts the number of abandoned women in the entire district at 3151 — a large number of whom were shunned by their conservative and orthodox families in certain parts of West Bengal and persuaded or even forced by the family members to live a ‘sacred widowed life' in Vrindavan after the death of her husband.

In most cases widows are denied remarriage even after the death of their husband in childhood or young age. While some are forced to leave the marital home and native place by the family members just to avoid maintenance in old age and bearing the burden of a non-productive family member, many others leave their homes due to physical and mental torture.

The report details the plight of these women, some of whom get a monthly pension of Rs. 300 and a measly quantity of food grain and sugar which is woefully inadequate for survival. As a result, they are forced to beg and sing in temples from where they can earn two or three rupees a day.

The living quarters are unhygienic with little or no facilities for toilets and drinking water. Medical facilities are only on paper. But due to lack of education, the women are often deprived of the paltry sum they are entitled to under the National Social Assistance Programme, Antodaya Scheme and Food Money Scheme as the funds are often pilfered.

Recommending setting up of sufficient shelter homes with proper facilities, the DLSA report said the Centre and the State governments are expected to fulfil the basic needs guaranteed by the Constitution and protect the human rights of the widows. It has also suggested proper audit of the funds received by the NGOs and private charitable institutions.

===> Was Ambedkar correct when he said that Hindus have no conscience?

More facts would have to be known about this but it seems to me to be a social and economic problem rather than a religious problem.

How old are these widows? Are some of them able to work? Is it possible to train them in some skills so that they can sustain themselves? This is what came to my mind when i read the report.

Rashmun wrote:More facts would have to be known about this but it seems to me to be a social and economic problem rather than a religious problem.

My words tend to raise your temperature, so here are the words of another person who has often been mistaken for me. Perhaps his identity will prompt you to think again about the issue.

The widows of Vrindavan are the starkest examples of how Hindu society treats women who lose their husbands. But it is disingenous to claim that they represent freakish cases of cruelty in individual families.

In reality, Hindu society has centuries-old rules governing the lives of widows. If they did not have the good sense to follow the puranic prescription of voluntarily dying on their husband's pyre, society was determined to deliver a longer death through humiliation and boredom.

Remarriage was out, since lying with a man other than the husband was considered sinful. To ensure lifelong sexual abstinence,
they had to stick to a plain sattvik diet and actively avoid tempting other men by shedding all the accoutrements of feminine beauty - long hair, fine clothes, jewelry, makeup. And above all, they were considered inauspicious and harbingers of bad fortune and could not take part in any family rituals.

That is how the discrimination against widows begins. Once you declare a family member inauspicious, and start dictating
every aspect of their public as well as personal life, you have already relegated them to second, lower class of humanity. The ritualistic, socially-sanctioned stripping away of human rights sets the stage for further stripping away of economic rights by greedy family members and the subsequent abandonment.

So while you choose to focus on that latter part, which by the way is universal and by no means an Indian monopoly,
you also need to acknowledge the former - which is quite unique to Hinduism.

[quote="charvaka"]

Rashmun wrote:More facts would have to be known about this but it seems to me to be a social and economic problem rather than a religious problem.

My words tend to raise your temperature, so here are the words of another person who has often been mistaken for me. Perhaps his identity will prompt you to think again about the issue.

--> i do not have to agree with Merlot about everything. It is possible to disagree with someone on specific issues without going out of one's way to undermine the credibility of the person with who you are having a disagreement.

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:More facts would have to be known about this but it seems to me to be a social and economic problem rather than a religious problem.

My words tend to raise your temperature, so here are the words of another person who has often been mistaken for me. Perhaps his identity will prompt you to think again about the issue.

--> i do not have to agree with Merlot about everything.

What part of Merlot's comments do you disagree with?

Rashmun wrote:It is possible to disagree with someone on specific issues without going out of one's way to undermine the credibility of the person with who you are having a disagreement.

Excellent idea!

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:More facts would have to be known about this but it seems to me to be a social and economic problem rather than a religious problem.

My words tend to raise your temperature, so here are the words of another person who has often been mistaken for me. Perhaps his identity will prompt you to think again about the issue.

--> i do not have to agree with Merlot about everything.

What part of Merlot's comments do you disagree with?

Rashmun wrote:It is possible to disagree with someone on specific issues without going out of one's way to undermine the credibility of the person with who you are having a disagreement.

Excellent idea!

'he who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind'

Rashmun, I take it that you are scared of stating what part of Merlot's views you disagree with. That is quite cute and endearing, so I won't ask you again to state your views on this subject.

charvaka wrote:Rashmun, I take it that you are scared of stating what part of Merlot's views you disagree with. That is quite cute and endearing, so I won't ask you again to state your views on this subject.

I am sure your uncle will kiss you with pride when you narrate this incident to him. This is a cute tactic actually, be sure to give him my compliments.

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:Rashmun, I take it that you are scared of stating what part of Merlot's views you disagree with. That is quite cute and endearing, so I won't ask you again to state your views on this subject.

I am sure your uncle will kiss you with pride when you narrate this incident to him. This is a cute tactic actually, be sure to give him my compliments.

The fact that you are so demoralized that you are unwilling to put forward your own views but prefer to put forward the view of a poster who is temporarily not around (so that if any flaws in the argument are pointed out, you escape any criticism) is at some level comical.

rashmun: i hate picking sides in a fight in which i have no dog, but i can't resist reminding you that making points by quoting others is your own favorite method of debating. voltaire and bharathi's thoughts are more important to you than your own.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:rashmun: i hate picking sides in a fight in which i have no dog, but i can't resist reminding you that making points by quoting others is your own favorite method of debating. voltaire and bharathi's thoughts are more important to you than your own.

The difference is that Merlot is around; he is only temporarily missing in action. Voltaire and Bharati are long dead. It is comical to put forward the views of another poster who is around-- in their entirety-- and insist on having a debate on the views of that poster; even though one may easily misinterpret and misrepresent the poster's actual views. Why should i have a debate on Merlot's views with Charvaka and not with Merot when Merlot is actually around?

Rashmun wrote:you are unwilling to put forward your own views

The thread I already linked to contains my views at considerable length. Further links in that thread will take you through the weeks of discussion that occurred on this topic on CH. I don't want to repeat myself when my views are known quite well to CHers who care about this topic.

Rashmun wrote:Why should i have a debate on Merlot's views with Charvaka and not with Merot when Merlot is actually around?

Dear Rashmun, may I remind you that you are not having a private conservation with me? This is a public forum. If you post your disagreements with Merlot's arguments -- which I agree with -- he will be able to see them. Perhaps that is precisely what you are afraid of, but please don't pretend to misconstrue this as "debate with Charvaka on Merlot's views."

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Why should i have a debate on Merlot's views with Charvaka and not with Merot when Merlot is actually around?

Dear Rashmun, may I remind you that you are not having a private conservation with me? This is a public forum. If you post your disagreements with Merlot's arguments -- which I agree with -- he will be able to see them. Perhaps that is precisely what you are afraid of, but please don't pretend to misconstrue this as "debate with Charvaka on Merlot's views."

But Merlot is temporarily not around. He seems to have taken a break from posting. What is of concern is your demoralization to the extent that you are afraid to speak for yourself but instead insist on having a debate with me based on what Merlot has said earlier. May i remind you that we can both misinterpret and misrepresent Merlot's viewpoint. Furthermore, both Merlot and I could modify our views if we have a discussion on the subject.

Sad to see the Uncle Tactic flop yet again.

Rashmun wrote:But Merlot is temporarily not around. He seems to have taken a break from posting.

You know something Merlot doesn't. He is on chat right now.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:But Merlot is temporarily not around. He seems to have taken a break from posting.

You know something Merlot doesn't. He is on chat right now.

I am sure i will have many opportunities to discuss this and other issues with Merlot. When i said 'temporary break' i meant posting on this forum, not going on chat.

Rashmun, I'm not MIA - was just taking my time playing catch up with all the activity that takes place on SuCH while I sleep.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Rashmun, I'm not MIA - was just taking my time playing catch up with all the activity that takes place on SuCH while I sleep.

--> I realize that. I believe your activity on this forum has become intermittent in the last few days and i thought you had become busy with your work. Anyways good to see you around and hope to have many discussions with you in future.

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> Was Ambedkar correct when he said that Hindus have no conscience?

This is indeed a hindu problem. They dont like to deal with rejects - considered the waste. Be it feces that is let after the food has been utilized, trash after the contents have been used, and the old bodies after they have been exploited to the fullest, the culture wants to dispose of such "wastes" in the cheapest manner.

With prosperity and increasing middle class, people have become more selfish and the situation has gotten worse.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:This is indeed a hindu problem. They dont like to deal with rejects - considered the waste. Be it feces that is let after the food has been utilized, trash after the contents have been used, and the old bodies after they have been exploited to the fullest, the culture wants to dispose of such "wastes" in the cheapest manner.

But the religious problems occur even with young widows.