A Kashmiri pandit in a FB video

by Seva Lamberdar Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:37 pm

https://www.facebook.com/supportformodi/videos/435438787313304/UzpfSTEwMDAwODg4MTY4NDY5NToyMTM1MTAwMjEzNDYyNjgx/

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:49 am

Looks like you are supporting this move. Are you suggesting that end justifies the means, no matter however undemocratic the means are. Unlike me, you were an adult during 1975 emergency, you probably have seen authoritarian stand of govt, firsthand and still are OKAY with it!!

by Seva Lamberdar Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:04 am

"The reality of Article 370 in Indian Constitution" -- https://such.forumotion.com/t46953-the-reality-of-article-370-in-indian-constitution

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:17 am

I asked you whether the end justifies the undemocratic means i.e. taking away basic rights of a citizen in a democracy. You have not answered that question.

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:28 am

Just an example of suffering of a common family due to the [authoritarian] act of govt. and supreme court.

https://thewire.in/rights/kashmir-article-370-srinagar-curfew-lal-ded-hospital

What the unabashed support of people of India/Indian origin to the recent govt. action told me was - Majority of these people wouldn't recognize democracy even if it walked up to them and bit their noses off.

by Seva Lamberdar Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:12 am

The rules and clauses in science and politics etc., which have no sound basis and might have originated without a clear understanding of things / situations should be terminated.

Bhupinder Singh Hooda backs Centre's Article 370 move, says 'Congress has lost its way' .....
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/bhupinder-singh-hooda-backs-centres-article-370-move-says-congress-has-lost-its-way/articleshow/70724510.cms

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:33 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:The rules and clauses in science and politics etc., which have no sound basis and might have originated without a clear understanding of things / situations should be terminated.

Are you saying that core principles of democracy (individual rights, consent of the governed etc.,) are flawed thus should be dropped/bent to suite one's narrative?

by Seva Lamberdar Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:56 am

Article 370 in Indian Constitution was not on equal individual rights but specially skewed (one way) rights / privileges,

"The reality of Article 370 in Indian Constitution" -- https://such.forumotion.com/t46953-the-reality-of-article-370-in-indian-constitution

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:03 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Article 370 in Indian Constitution was not on equal individual rights but specially skewed (one way) rights / privileges,

"The reality of Article 370 in Indian Constitution" -- https://such.forumotion.com/t46953-the-reality-of-article-370-in-indian-constitution

Keep deflecting. No one is debating the validity of Article 370, the question is whether the complete lock-down of Kashmir is considered democratic or not. I see that you've no answer.

by Seva Lamberdar Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:07 pm

"On our way back to the hotel, we saw an aggressive protest by an unruly crowd carrying Pakistani flags and shouting slogans against India and our Prime Minister. A lot of people were watching them. We just felt it was our duty to tell them to not abuse our country or our Prime Minister. You have a problem with abrogation of Article 370, which totally is an internal matter, and it has nothing to do with you all," she (Ms. Ilmi) added.
(https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/shazia-ilmi-to-protesters-with-pak-flags-in-seoul-dont-abuse-our-pm-2086613)

>>> Article 370 is completely an internal matter for India. It is therefore Indian Govt's responsibility to maintain / ensure peace, law and order in the state during any action / decision related to Article 370, including its abrogation.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:53 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote: "On our way back to the hotel, we saw an aggressive protest by an unruly crowd carrying Pakistani flags and shouting slogans against India and our Prime Minister. A lot of people were watching them. We just felt it was our duty to tell them to not abuse our country or our Prime Minister. You have a problem with abrogation of Article 370, which totally is an internal matter, and it has nothing to do with you all," she (Ms. Ilmi) added.
(https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/shazia-ilmi-to-protesters-with-pak-flags-in-seoul-dont-abuse-our-pm-2086613)

>>> Article 370 is completely an internal matter for India. It is therefore Indian Govt's responsibility to maintain / ensure peace, law and order in the state during any action / decision related to Article 370, including its abrogation.

Incidentally, the talk of referendum makes sense in relation to the parts of Kashmir taken over militarily and by force, such as PoK and CoK, and not the territory (IoK) which joined India willingly looking for protection and peace against invaders while even signing the Instrument of Accession with India.

by southindian Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:23 am

Pakis are squirming and are puzzled. Smile

In the past, they never saw a Pro-active India that can take a stand and a govt. that can work as a unit to resolve issues.

In the past, J&K was locked down many times and once for 53 days when a terrorist died and bandh called by Gellani. These bastards didn't talk about inconvenience then. Prevention is always better than cure and there's no reason to lose lives because of violence. The govt. is easing out restrictions every day and peaceful protests are fine.

The assholes want to hear gruesome news from J&K, that helps them to spread hatred.

Funny, the morons are talking about getting access to internet and phones (not milk and bread) so they spread morphed, Photoshoped images, the one posted by BBC a week ago.

These angry and uneasy snakes of societies, I tell ya! Smile

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:09 pm

Btw why the plebiscite / referendum in Indian Kashmir according the U.N.? There is no justification for it, considering India did not occupy and overtake J&K by aggression and force, but merely accepted it and defended it from being run over and overtaken by Pakistani attackers, after it (J&K) willingly joined India peacefully by signing the Instrument of Accession with India in Oct. 1947.

by southindian Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:38 pm

J&K became part of India..... peacefully.
Kashmiris never wanted freedom and became part of India. No issues.
India-Pak agreed that both India-Pak Army will not attack each other.
Pak then played game and sent tribals (Pak soldiers in tribal dress) to infiltrate into Kashmir, captured large part of Kashmir (POK). Indian forces retaliated, captured some back, then Nehru went to UN security council to stop fighting and asked to do a plebiscite.
UN said, fine it will happen after 3 steps
#1 Pakistani infiltrators will go back from POK to Pakistan.
#2 India will reduce army in India's Kashmir.
#3 UN will send observer for referendum

#1 never happened.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:41 am

southindian wrote:J&K became part of India..... peacefully.
Kashmiris never wanted freedom and became part of India. No issues.
India-Pak agreed that both India-Pak Army will not attack each other.
Pak then played game and sent tribals (Pak soldiers in tribal dress) to infiltrate into Kashmir, captured large part of Kashmir (POK). Indian forces retaliated, captured some back, then Nehru went to UN security council to stop fighting and asked to do a plebiscite.
UN said, fine it will happen after 3 steps
#1 Pakistani infiltrators will go back from POK to Pakistan.
#2 India will reduce army in India's Kashmir.
#3 UN will send observer for referendum

#1 never happened.

While the UN edict on plebiscite / referendum in PoK & CoK might make sense because those areas of Kashmir were taken over militarily (by force) by Pakistan & China, but why should Indian Kashmir be asked to do the same considering it joined with India peacefully by signing the Instrument of Accession with India? There was no reason for India to agree to such a condition, no matter it might be required from PoK (or CoK).

by southindian Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:58 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
southindian wrote:J&K became part of India..... peacefully.
Kashmiris never wanted freedom and became part of India. No issues.
India-Pak agreed that both India-Pak Army will not attack each other.
Pak then played game and sent tribals (Pak soldiers in tribal dress) to infiltrate into Kashmir, captured large part of Kashmir (POK). Indian forces retaliated, captured some back, then Nehru went to UN security council to stop fighting and asked to do a plebiscite.
UN said, fine it will happen after 3 steps
#1 Pakistani infiltrators will go back from POK to Pakistan.
#2 India will reduce army in India's Kashmir.
#3 UN will send observer for referendum

#1 never happened.
While the UN edict on plebiscite / referendum in PoK & CoK might make sense because those areas of Kashmir were taken over militarily (by force) by Pakistan & China, but why should Indian Kashmir be asked to do the same considering it joined with India peacefully by signing the Instrument of Accession with India? There was no reason for India to agree to such a condition, no matter it might be required from PoK (or CoK).

Because that idiot Nehru went to UN and offered to do a plebiscite in whole of J&K.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:16 am

southindian wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
southindian wrote:J&K became part of India..... peacefully.
Kashmiris never wanted freedom and became part of India. No issues.
India-Pak agreed that both India-Pak Army will not attack each other.
Pak then played game and sent tribals (Pak soldiers in tribal dress) to infiltrate into Kashmir, captured large part of Kashmir (POK). Indian forces retaliated, captured some back, then Nehru went to UN security council to stop fighting and asked to do a plebiscite.
UN said, fine it will happen after 3 steps
#1 Pakistani infiltrators will go back from POK to Pakistan.
#2 India will reduce army in India's Kashmir.
#3 UN will send observer for referendum

#1 never happened.
While the UN edict on plebiscite / referendum in PoK & CoK might make sense because those areas of Kashmir were taken over militarily (by force) by Pakistan & China, but why should Indian Kashmir be asked to do the same considering it joined with India peacefully by signing the Instrument of Accession with India? There was no reason for India to agree to such a condition, no matter it might be required from PoK (or CoK).
Because that Nehru went to UN and offered to do a plebiscite in whole of J&K.

Whatever Nehru did or said after J&K had already joined India peacefully by signing the Instrument of Accession (IoA) with India in Oct. 1947, it's probably time for India to remind the U.N. about India's legitimacy already in J&K (without the need for a referendum) according to the original IoA signed by J&K for a peaceful union with India in Oct. 1947, unlike in the cases of Pakistan and China which need to establish their legitimacy (through plebiscites etc.) in their Kashmiri areas (PoK and CoK) after having captured and taken them militarily by force.

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