Got it wrong on Kerala

by MulaiAzhagi Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:42 pm

So everybody knows everybody and knows somebody in each area – the same is true in Kerala. There’s not really a Muslim city and Hindu city, or Muslim districts and Hindu districts like there are in Gujarat or in places like Hyderabad. In Kerala, Muslims and Christians and Hindus are side by side.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/17/multiculturalism_can_be_saved/

===> Wrong.

Mallapuram district in Kerala is indeed a Muslim district.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:So everybody knows everybody and knows somebody in each area – the same is true in Kerala. There’s not really a Muslim city and Hindu city, or Muslim districts and Hindu districts like there are in Gujarat or in places like Hyderabad. In Kerala, Muslims and Christians and Hindus are side by side.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/17/multiculturalism_can_be_saved/

===> Wrong.

Mallapuram district in Kerala is indeed a Muslim district.

Depends: If the author is white, then the article must be true.

by chameli Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:45 am

this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

by Kris Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:28 pm

chameli wrote:this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

by chameli Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:52 pm

yep definitely relative..

as compared to the rest of the country .

Nor have i seen a single keralite argue about his religion or enquire into another's religion and react accordingly

he seems to be content ..

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:46 pm

Kris wrote:
chameli wrote:this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

the mappila riots are THE favorite incident that those who'd like to deny that differences in hindu-muslim animosity exist across the country, like to cite. by and large (this being the key phrase) kerala and TN are devoid of the spectacular conflagrations that we have seen for instance in uttharapradesham, kashmir, and bombay. admittedly kashmir is more complex and it probably is not fair to paint it as a simple hindu-muslim problem.

by Kris Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
chameli wrote:this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

the mappila riots are THE favorite incident that those who'd like to deny that differences in hindu-muslim animosity exist across the country, like to cite. by and large (this being the key phrase) kerala and TN are devoid of the spectacular conflagrations that we have seen for instance in uttharapradesham, kashmir, and bombay. admittedly kashmir is more complex and it probably is not fair to paint it as a simple hindu-muslim problem.

>>>>Differences do exist in the different parts of the country on this issue, presumably due to the histories, but my understanding is radicalization of islamic groups is very much a fact now in Kerala. On the issue of Kashmir, the hindu-muslim aspect is at the core of the problem. The much touted Kashmiriyat (I think that is the term) is pretty much a veiled reference to an islamic kashmir, at least the way it has evolved.

by Guest Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:52 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
chameli wrote:this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

the mappila riots are THE favorite incident that those who'd like to deny that differences in hindu-muslim animosity exist across the country, like to cite. by and large (this being the key phrase) kerala and TN are devoid of the spectacular conflagrations that we have seen for instance in uttharapradesham, kashmir, and bombay. admittedly kashmir is more complex and it probably is not fair to paint it as a simple hindu-muslim problem.

>>>>Differences do exist in the different parts of the country on this issue, presumably due to the histories, but my understanding is radicalization of islamic groups is very much a fact now in Kerala. On the issue of Kashmir, the hindu-muslim aspect is at the core of the problem. The much touted Kashmiriyat (I think that is the term) is pretty much a veiled reference to an islamic kashmir, at least the way it has evolved.

Kashmiriyat (Kashmiri: कश्मीरीयत, کشمیریّت; translation: Kashmiri-ness) is the ethno-national and social consciousness and cultural values of the Kashmiri people. Emerging approximately around the 16th century, it is characterised by religious and cultural harmony, patriotism and pride for their mountainous homeland of Kashmir. The tradition of Kashmiriyat has been deeply affected by the ongoing Kashmir conflict and by communal violence between Muslims and Hindus.
However in recent 2007 poll conducted by the Centre for the Study of
Developing Societies in New Delhi, 84 percent of people in Srinagar want
to see the return of Kashmiri Pandits.^[1]
A MORI survey found that within the Kashmir Valley, 92% respondents
opposed the state of Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or
ethnicity.^[2]
^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiriyat}

by Guest Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:56 pm

I am currently reading a book called 'Subhashitavali: An anthology
of comic, erotic, and other verse'; it is an anthology of verses
collected by a Kashmiri scholar Vallabhadeva in circa 15th century A.D..
The book i have is an english translation of the original Sanskrit by
A.N.D. Haksar.Verse 425, pg 124 of Haksar's book has the following
verse:

"Why serve Krishna
who churned and hurt me,
and sleeps all day
upon my waves?
Better wait on someone
who understands, is kindly
and always wide awake."

Thinking thus, and cognizant
of your fame, O King,
the sea of milk has here arrived
in the guise of snow to serve you.

On pg x of the introduction to his book, Haksar tells us that the
reference to the 'King' in the verse is Sultan Zainu'l Abidin. In
Haksar's own words:

"The subject of one (v. 425) is clearly Sultan Zainu'l
Abidin (1420-1470), a famous ruler of Kashmir who is known to have
patronized Sanskrit letters."

The dates given for the king by Haksar are the years during which
he ruled i.e. the years during which he was king of Greater Kashmir.

I vaguely remembered hearing or reading of some Kashmiri muslim
king who was very liberal in his religious outlook and who was an
atavistic version of Akbar; it was clearly Zainu'l Abidin. I tried
searching for biographical information on this king online, and this is
what i found:

Zain-ul-Abidin’s accession to the Kashmir throne ushered in an
era of peace, religious tolerance, justice, material progress,
prosperity and glory of the valley. He has truly been called Budshah for
his benevolence. He is chiefly being remembered for the following:

1. Recall of the Hindus: For bringing order in the country, he
wanted the old class of officials, the Pundits, back with guarantee of
full civil and religious liberties. Providence also helped. He fell
seriously ill. He was cured by the famous physician Shri Bhat. The king
wanted to give him a valuable gift. Shri Bhar refused to take anything
for himself. Instead he wanted the king to remove all restrictions on
Pundits imposed by Sikandar including poll tax (Jazia). The king at once
granted him the request. He took the following steps:

a) Pundits could perform their religious functions freely.
b) Made Shri Bhat his prime minister.
c) All persecutionary laws made by Sikandar were withdrawn.
d) Thos who had migrated, were invited back and most of them did come.
e) People were permitted to build new temples, some old ones were repaired.
f) The king built two temples near Ishbur with land grants.
g) Poill tax (Jazia) was abolished.
h) Killing of cows was banned.
i) During Hindu festivals, the king himself abstained from eating meat.
j) Killing of fish in springs sacred to Hindus was forbidden.
k) He would take part in Hindu festivals and go on pilgrimage to Hindu Tirthas including once to the holy Sharada Temple.

2. a) He built numerous houses for widows of Brahmins killed in the reigns of Sikandar and Ali Shah.
b) He got Hindu Shastras including Mahabharata translated into Persian.
c)
He entrusted administration to Pundits, encouraged them to learn
Persian before it became the official language. Shri Bhat, Tilakacharya,
Shiva Bhatt, Simha Bhatt, Bodhi Bhatt and Shri Ramanand were some of
the learned men and prominent administrators.

3. Development of Arts & Crafts: Zain-ul-Abidin recognised the ability and zeal of Kashmiris
to
learn certain arts and crafts, which he had learnt while at Samarqand.
He introduced: a) Carpet Making. b) Papier Machie. c) Wood Carving. d)
Silj Weaving. e) Paper Making. f) Stone Cutting & Poilishing etc. g)
Window Cutting. h) Gold Beating. He invited competent teachers and
craftsmen to train his subjects endowed with talent and natural
aptitude. Soon these products acquired great fame in Asia and Europe.
Pt. Anand Kaul says, “Zain-ul-Abidin turned Kashmir into a garden of
industry.” Most of these are the bedrock of Kashmir economy even today.

4. Public Works: Zain-ul-Abidin built many towns and villages.
He built several canals, many of them have been repaired or
reconstructed and are under use. Bijbehara, Mansbal, Zainagir, Shahkul
at Bawan are some of them revived for use. His engineer Damra Kach paved
a road with stones. He also made Zaina Kadal, the first wooden bridge
in Kashmir. The Sultan introduced wooden architecture. His 12 storeyed
Zoona Dab is well known. (Also refer Pages 6,7,8 of Information Digest
Vol.1)

In short Zain-ul-Abidin reversed the policy of his father
Sikandar Butshikan, re-established a regime of religious tolerance,
introduced measures to generate employment, improved irrigation and the
economy of his State. And therefore called Budshah.

[From http://zaan.net/vol4/2.html ]

http://rashmun.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/09/sultan-zain-ul-abidin-of-kashmir-an-atavistic-akbar-2.htm

by Kris Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:41 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
chameli wrote:this particular district may be muslim packed bit i have heard this again and again that in Kerala there is very little religion based discrimination

.all religions live peaceably here

also many Keralites are communists and therefore atheists

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

the mappila riots are THE favorite incident that those who'd like to deny that differences in hindu-muslim animosity exist across the country, like to cite. by and large (this being the key phrase) kerala and TN are devoid of the spectacular conflagrations that we have seen for instance in uttharapradesham, kashmir, and bombay. admittedly kashmir is more complex and it probably is not fair to paint it as a simple hindu-muslim problem.

>>>>Differences do exist in the different parts of the country on this issue, presumably due to the histories, but my understanding is radicalization of islamic groups is very much a fact now in Kerala. On the issue of Kashmir, the hindu-muslim aspect is at the core of the problem. The much touted Kashmiriyat (I think that is the term) is pretty much a veiled reference to an islamic kashmir, at least the way it has evolved.

Kashmiriyat (Kashmiri: कश्मीरीयत, کشمیریّت; translation: Kashmiri-ness) is the ethno-national and social consciousness and cultural values of the Kashmiri people. Emerging approximately around the 16th century, it is characterised by religious and cultural harmony, patriotism and pride for their mountainous homeland of Kashmir. The tradition of Kashmiriyat has been deeply affected by the ongoing Kashmir conflict and by communal violence between Muslims and Hindus.
However in recent 2007 poll conducted by the Centre for the Study of
Developing Societies in New Delhi, 84 percent of people in Srinagar want
to see the return of Kashmiri Pandits.^[1]
A MORI survey found that within the Kashmir Valley, 92% respondents
opposed the state of Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or
ethnicity.^[2]
^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiriyat}

>>>>The first time I heard this term was in Sulekha. It may have been one of Lalita Pandit's contributions. The feedback to this was either this concept itself has not turned out as expected or the idea itself is complete wishful thinking, given the current state of affairs. I meant to say the latter in my last post.

by Kris Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:32 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:

>>> This is relative. Its not as though Kerala has been completely free of conflicts.

The Mappila riots are case in point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappila_riots

the mappila riots are THE favorite incident that those who'd like to deny that differences in hindu-muslim animosity exist across the country, like to cite. by and large (this being the key phrase) kerala and TN are devoid of the spectacular conflagrations that we have seen for instance in uttharapradesham, kashmir, and bombay. admittedly kashmir is more complex and it probably is not fair to paint it as a simple hindu-muslim problem.

>>>>Differences do exist in the different parts of the country on this issue, presumably due to the histories, but my understanding is radicalization of islamic groups is very much a fact now in Kerala. On the issue of Kashmir, the hindu-muslim aspect is at the core of the problem. The much touted Kashmiriyat (I think that is the term) is pretty much a veiled reference to an islamic kashmir, at least the way it has evolved.

Kashmiriyat (Kashmiri: कश्मीरीयत, کشمیریّت; translation: Kashmiri-ness) is the ethno-national and social consciousness and cultural values of the Kashmiri people. Emerging approximately around the 16th century, it is characterised by religious and cultural harmony, patriotism and pride for their mountainous homeland of Kashmir. The tradition of Kashmiriyat has been deeply affected by the ongoing Kashmir conflict and by communal violence between Muslims and Hindus.
However in recent 2007 poll conducted by the Centre for the Study of
Developing Societies in New Delhi, 84 percent of people in Srinagar want
to see the return of Kashmiri Pandits.^[1]
A MORI survey found that within the Kashmir Valley, 92% respondents
opposed the state of Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or
ethnicity.^[2]
^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiriyat}

>>>>The first time I heard this term was in Sulekha. It may have been one of Lalita Pandit's contributions. The feedback to this was either this concept itself has not turned out as expected or the idea itself is complete wishful thinking, given the current state of affairs. I meant to say the latter in my last post.

>>>>The link below reflects what I was talking about. In the interest of fairness, if I remember correctly Lalita spoke fondly of the idea of Kashmiriyat.

http://soulinexile.blogspot.com/2007/01/kashmiriyat-true-story.html

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