Pakistani businessmen investing in India

http://dawn.com/2012/04/22/pakistani-businessmen-investing-in-india/


===> Do you really think it is a good idea?

The answer is pretty obvious. NO!. The whole thing is a joke. What exactly can impoverished Pakistan invest in India ?
It wants to export more to save its economy. It is seeking free movement of people to support this. The last time this was done, many never went back. .

There is a very good wake-up article.
Security Implications of Economic Relations With Pakistan

When you have dealings between a secular country and an Islamic Country with an infamous history (the country seems to substitute trust with deceit), appropriate safeguards are a must.

When an entire population is brought up with a notion, that India is an unfinished business of their Islamic conquest, all we would have is just trouble. Unless their school textbooks are changed, nothing positive is going to emerge. Every act of good faith will be mis-used to achieve their mis-guided objectives of eventual conquest. Now all that Defa-e-Pakistan has to do, is just support shell companies who can eventually provide safe houses/passage to sleeper cells, ready to be activated at the appropriate time.

If Pakistan seeks trade ties, India should also get transit rights to export goods to Afghanistan. Why doesn't it allow it ? It doesn't because it doesn't trust India. Whereas Indians are asked to trust Pakistan. Everything is one-sided. Pakistan wants trade ties not because they genuinely feel that it helps to keep their terrorists at bay. They want trade ties, because they want to get rich and are their economy is in doldrums. Pakistan needs trade ties much more than India needs it. Still our media is going to town, asking for MMS to reciprocate Pakistan just agreeing to establish a negative list of trade goods. Why exactly should India respond to an act Pakistan does to benefit itself is a mystery that no media person is willing to ask ?

There might be 1 in 10 genuine cases, but past history indicates that most are bad apples.

What could have India done, if anyway we have to relax trade norms ? Trade is good, but given the history , preventing mis-use is critical.

India should add in safeguards and penalties for bad behaviour, and there should be legal cover via a Parliament approved act to automatically enforce these provisions, lest the local politics be used to prevent them from being acted upon.


For example,

a) Build a state of the art scanner with US help, on all trucks/Ships/Air Cargo coming in Pakistan, irrespective of their origin OR method of transport, and also request voluntary self-inspection at their ports

b) Ensure complete biometrics for all people visiting from Pakistan.

c) at the first sign of trouble
- a shell company discovered OR
- business channels used for smuggling (fake currency, narcotics, Arms), OR
- intelligence collected to support future acts of terrorism against economic targets,
OR
- money used to support acts against secularism
OR
- money used to fund acts that are against law and order,
OR
- money laundering or their banks funding dubious institutions in India
OR
- their banks funding dubious charities or indulge in other activities not
required to support normal trade)
OR
- Visas mis-used in any manner
OR
- their business institutions supporting any act against the state (proof to be solely determined by India)

the visa relaxation regime/duty free regime for imports from Pakistan/ registration of Pakistani Banks, should be automatically stopped for a period of at least 20 years. Pakistan's Chamber of Commerce should be held responsible for this, and they should be aware of the consequences. If the consequences are known, PCC will be careful. We all know what happened, when 10,000 folks were given Visas to visit India in the name of passion of cricket.


d) Blacklist all such persons for 25 years.

Most of the time, Pakistan continues to commit acts and within a few months tries to use Wagah candle vigils & foolish media supporters in India to get India to go back to "all is well" mode.

Raw
Did you ever go back and read your dire predictions of the past? While some amount of due
Diligence is required investing on both sides of border is good for long term relationship among people. Some pakis are asking similar qiestions.

A little bit less passion and more objectivity would help.

Please refresh my memory on so called predictions.

Pakistani actions are there for the whole world to see and even the US is beginning to understand (in a widespread manner) Pakistani Duplicity (so called Al Taqiya). Now they must know what we are up against. Seasoned foreign policy analysts are coming around to the correct view that India is becoming the sponge that is taking all the punches that would have been otherwise directed against the west.

Answer this question ?
If Pakistan seeks trade ties, India should also get transit rights to export goods to Afghanistan. Why doesn't it allow it ? It wants trust but does not trust us in return. What about this ?

Regarding your comments. I never said we should NOT allow trade. My points
a) They are agreeing to trade now because it benefits them and they desperately need this. The benefit to India is marginal. Thus the media is tomtoming as it as a great benefit for India. It is nothing of that sort. The whole thing is a charade. They use Defa-e-Pakistan to claim that they are doing it against great opposition, just to get more concessions from India, very similar to the way LeT/Taliban was used to wring concessions from US. LeT is almost a column of their Army. Everyone knows this.

b) However, I know we cannot prevent trade ties, at least to encourage the so called moderates, it is a useful tool. We need people within Pakistan to fight for us NOT everyone in Pakistan against us. I also understand this simple strategy. However, please understand that in Pakistan for every 1 genuine person, three terrorists conniving with the state apparatus misuses any channel. So my post is all about ways to monitor, and most of all, implement automatic shutdown procedures to prevent Misuse. There are clear points there. I do not understand why you feel this is NOT objective.

The post in southasiaanalysis.org explains the dangers, but does not touch upon safeguards
http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers51/paper5004.html

This stick is extremely important. The consequences are the only way to make Pakistan behave. Because, if the mis-use happens, the moderates now can blame the extremists on their side rather than us, because the consequences are well defined upfront.

Any rationale person would know that even if you make the borders visa free, OR even allow free movement of people like Europe Defa-e-Pakistan is going to mis-use this and Pakistan (government/media/everybody) will claim it is the handiwork of non-state actors. Why?

Their world view is defined by what is in their school textbooks.

Prove me wrong if you can. I know what crap is written there OR their distorted world view. This can be seen among even educated elite living in US. You cannot easily erase their worldview taught during the Zia years. Not everyone goes to Wikipedia to check whether what is being taught as history is correct or NOT. Half of them think they are Ghazni's progeny's and are just waiting to Invade India again. They think entire India should be invaded again to be made part of Islamic Caliphate. You think you can reason with them ?


How much ever due diligence we do, you can never be perfect in catching misuse, especially those that are backed by a state. The steps outlined above are not arbitrary, but clear cut steps we need to take before we can open the gates, to safe guard ourselves. There is no point claiming we did nothing, after a Mumbai type attacks happen and lament ourselves. You do not need to advertise all these in public, but do it slowly and silently. The genuine ones who want to trade will come to trade, irrespective of whether they get their biometrics taken, very much similar to the lines Indians stand in US immigration counters.

If you have something tangible and useful to comment please do. Otherwise if it is all about your prejudice about the sweet nature of Pakistanis, please keep that to yourselves. We should judge Pakistan ONLY by its actions, NOT by words. Anybody who understands history of Indian relations with Pakistan, and knows past actions of Pakistan, should know this by now. If you do not I suggest you educate yourself with a little bit of that history.


After the foolishness exhibited by UPA (they relaxes procedures on Visa as soon as they came to power, what happened, Headely came), with an attitude similar to yours, we all know what happened.

Whether it be the Visa relaxation for cricket OR "cultural exchanges".. Let us not simply sit and wait for another problem, rather contribute something constructive.

Even if this spawns a debate, that is good. But I do not have much hopes. At the height of Mumbai attacks, many intellectuals from IIM professors to others suggested ways to combat Pakistan in a non-violent manner. Nothing came out of it.

Media today wants sensationalism, not results. Sensationalism is created only when incidents happen, NOT when incidents are prevented. In addition, the quality of bureaucrats in foreign policy leaves a lot to be desired and their decision making questionable. There are a few good ones, like those that understand how to take on China. However there are some extremely bad apples, especially those that are in charge of handling middle east. Maldives, Syria to name a few.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-pak-ready-to-resolve-all-issues-with-india-gilani/20120423.htm

The premier contended that the basic causes of terrorism and extremism were illiteracy and poverty.


This sounds to you like a country that wants to improve ?

It is more like the one who wants to obfuscate the issue and escape their crimes against Humanity in the name of illiteracy and poverty - sample given below

(against Bangladesh - millions killed and ethnic cleansing,
against Balochistan - tens of thousands killed, and illegally occupied, plunder of natural resources,
against Indian J&K - induced ethnic cleansing and tens of thousands killed,
against Pakistan Occupied Kashmir - Forced Occupation, Demographic Invasion and suppression of rights, presence of terror groups
against Afghanistan - Occupation of the country by proxy , killing of thousands of innocents, and encouraging a repressive society in
the name of coveting territory , resources)

It does not matter what a few people say. The establishment triumvirate (Army, ISI, terrorists) have basically the same views, but with different shades.


It is Ironic that India has been helping them, it helped 90000 pow escape criminal trials for genocide during Bangladesh war of independence, it kept quiet when Pakistani rangers mutilated 5 soldiers during Kargil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saurabh_Kalia

On the contrary, when Pakistan soldiers (unacknowledged by their own country) died in Kargil war , India draped their coffins with Pakistani flag as a mark fo respect. India has come a long way, and Pakistan wants to go back to medieval 10th century. Within that country rampant Punjabi domination of Sindh, Balochs, Kashmiris , Shias, Ahmediyas continues. Hindus/Sikhs were ethnically cleansed from 10% to 1%. That wasteland has a preponderance of medieval barbarians and thugs.

India has to deal with Pakistan, but needs to understand the basic makeup of its society. For every 1 normal person, who wants to raise his voice, there are 3 more squelching them, and are bigoted, Islamic Supremacists, dreaming of Caliphate and 72 virgins. So understand the threat when dealing with them. Their women have no voice. Not safeguarding India against these marauders is foolish. More are getting produced with their warped education system.

Many Paki journalists have been writing the same. Has anything happened. Nothing ? Why is the ratio 3:1 and why is it that more are being added to the 3, rather than 1 ? It is because of their warped education system.

The bottomline, Unless their education system is fixed, nothing is going to change for India, as the basic makeup of their society is going to be the same. India can do all it wants to reach out to the minority 25% (1 out of 4), however it has to guard itself against the majority 75%. These folks use Political Islam to silence the minority 25%'s views, and as in every other Islamic country, the minority 25% are not able to challenge the majority at least for the forseeable future. Even if they do, the ruling triumvirate ensures that this does not happen and indirectly encourage the bigoted. The Army is firmly in the 75% Camp, and that is a big portion of the problem, please note the top leadership of the Army contains educated individuals.

This is what I remember saying a while back, and I do not think anything has changed. Infact more countries are coming around to this view.