DArk knight tragedy

by Impedimenta Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:15 am

OMG!

but i do want to go see it sunday :-( was eagerly waiting for the release

by doofus_maximus Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 am

Another moron with a gun.

by garam_kuta Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:41 am

doofus_maximus wrote:Another moron with a gun.

whoa ! amman is loaded with ammo now ??? affraid

j/k

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:12 pm

look at us! so inured to gun violence. another year, another gun lunatic. it doesn't even elicit a response any more. we'll just go on, the NRA and its acolytes will yell and scream about second amendment rights and draw some stupid ass analogies between cars and guns and we'll just keep going until the next rampage. and those of us who hate the NRA just have to hope the next lunatic doesn't arrive in our neighborhood.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:15 pm

let me guess the right wing's new and improved version of the standard argument. one word - norway. as if that explains everything.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:17 pm

boji aka mulaizhagan - there is fodder here for you too. turns out the gunman was pursuing a neuroscience ph.d. so much for neuroscience ph.d's.

by FluteHolder Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:45 pm

Govt/ppl will never realise the dangers of Gun. Guns should only with law enforcement.

I guess NRA pays to both parties for campaign finance?

by Guest Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:11 pm

This one was a different kind. Used gas, claimed to have explosives, and didn't shoot himself (or got shot down).

by Hellsangel Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:09 pm

FluteHolder wrote:Govt/ppl will never realise the dangers of Gun. Guns should only with law enforcement.

I guess NRA pays to both parties for campaign finance?

Airport- Mexico City

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:19 am

Impedimenta wrote:OMG!

but i do want to go see it sunday :-( was eagerly waiting for the release

Does not shock me anymore. This has become an annual ritual. Shooting, condemnation, NRA keeps a low profile, people discuss what should be done, the dead are buried, more condemnation...

then something else comes along and people move on.

Not any different from the pattern of any iSalaamic killing and the process that follows in India.

by truthbetold Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:17 am

Also notice that dems went silent on gun control for several years. Supreme court pretty much drove the nail into the coffin.

by MulaiAzhagi Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:37 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/james-eagan-holmes-held-in-colorado-shooting/2012/07/20/gJQA213UyW_story.html?hpid=z1

===> I know a guy, a Tamil Iyer with an M.Sc from IIT who took 10 years to get his Ph.D in Chemistry.

He was brilliant, was good in research and published papers very soon after he started his Ph.D program. But he had a problem with the foreign language requirement. He had a hard time passing French.

So he transferred to another university and finished his Ph.D there. It took him a total of ten years.

It does not bother him. He now teaches at a well known state university.

My friend is also now happily married to an Iyengar.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:51 pm

nothing explains this sort of behavior other than losing one's marbles, but grad school can be a very lonely and punishing place. ph.d's are tough, there are no set completion points like you have when you take an undergraduate course with assignments and exams. your relationship with your advisor, his or her funding situation, and the usual ups and downs of everyday work in a lab can all really take an emotional toll. add to that petty jealousies, pressure to publish, grant deadlines, competition with fellow graduate students, and boy-girl relationship problems and it could make for a deadly brew of circumstances. i wonder if there were faculty members with watchful eyes who sensed something wasn't aright with this guy.

by Kris Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:54 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/james-eagan-holmes-held-in-colorado-shooting/2012/07/20/gJQA213UyW_story.html?hpid=z1

===> I know a guy, a Tamil Iyer with an M.Sc from IIT who took 10 years to get his Ph.D in Chemistry.

He was brilliant, was good in research and published papers very soon after he started his Ph.D program. But he had a problem with the foreign language requirement. He had a hard time passing French.

So he transferred to another university and finished his Ph.D there. It took him a total of ten years.

It does not bother him. He now teaches at a well known state university.

My friend is also now happily married to an Iyengar.

>>> I can almost picture the mother bellyaching in Mylapore " if only he had passed french 101, an iyer girl would have taken him. So close, and yet so far" Smile

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:59 pm

this is from the times; just look at the stuff he was able to buy legally (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/shooting-at-colorado-theater-showing-batman-movie.html?hp):

In the last 60 days Mr. Holmes had purchased four guns at local gun
shops, Chief Oates said. And through the Internet, he bought more than
6,000 rounds of ammunition: more than 3,000 rounds for the assault
rifle, 3,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition for the two Glocks, and
300 rounds for the 12-gauge shotgun. The guns were all bought legally, a
federal law enforcement official said.

i wonder if hellsangel and his republican NRA friends still think all this is the equivalent of owning and using a car. when you cause an accident by driving drunk you end up killing people, but nothing of this magnitude. why do we allow people to have the ability to cause mass carnage? it's a simple question really. i can understand people who hunt for sport, but why do they need to have the ability to possess such horrific weapons which can unleash tremendous violence? why o why?

by MulaiAzhagi Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Kris wrote:

My friend is also now happily married to an Iyengar.

>>> I can almost picture the mother bellyaching in Mylapore " if only he had passed french 101, an iyer girl would have taken him. So close, and yet so far" Smile

[/quote]

===> Kris,

I think you are onto something.

While he was at IIT Madras, my Iyer friend fell in love with an Iyer girl.

Unfortunately, he and his lover belonged to the same gothra. His mother was dead set against this 'incestuous' relationship.

By marrying an Iyengar, he was punishing his mother. But it is still better than taking a gun and shooting a lot of people.

by FluteHolder Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:10 pm

While they govt is not much able to control illegal gun sales, they could atleast monitor the legal gun owners (something like credit check -Gun ownership check/record) and have periodical (6 month/1year) 'sanity check' at local police station/shrink and they gun owners should be able to pay for the bill/time.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:14 pm

FluteHolder wrote:While they govt is not much able to control illegal gun sales, they could atleast monitor the legal gun owners (something like credit check -Gun ownership check/record) and have periodical (6 month/1year) 'sanity check' at local police station/shrink and they gun owners should be able to pay for the bill/time.

this guy bought everything legally, had no run ins with the police other than one traffic violation, no criminal record nothing. absolutely nothing. how would it have helped you to check his credit or gun ownership record?

by Kris Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:16 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:nothing explains this sort of behavior other than losing one's marbles, but grad school can be a very lonely and punishing place. ph.d's are tough, there are no set completion points like you have when you take an undergraduate course with assignments and exams. your relationship with your advisor, his or her funding situation, and the usual ups and downs of everyday work in a lab can all really take an emotional toll. add to that petty jealousies, pressure to publish, grant deadlines, competition with fellow graduate students, and boy-girl relationship problems and it could make for a deadly brew of circumstances. i wonder if there were faculty members with watchful eyes who sensed something wasn't aright with this guy.

>>>In broader terms, I also wonder if this is the downside to an extremely invidualistic society, where people do their own thing relatively unquestioned. The law of averages would suggest whackos exist in every society to more or less the same degree, but the acting out of the fantasies is curtailed where the group dynamics involve more human interaction.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:17 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:Another moron with a gun.

what about the morons who elected the representatives who won't pass laws that limit the sale of freakishly horrific weapons? what about the morons who side with the NRA every single time? what about the morons who fund the lobbies for gun ownership? what about the morons who allow these morons to be able to purchase weapons of mass destruction? can we talk about them for a change?

by Kris Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:18 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:
Kris wrote:

My friend is also now happily married to an Iyengar.

>>> I can almost picture the mother bellyaching in Mylapore " if only he had passed french 101, an iyer girl would have taken him. So close, and yet so far"

===> Kris,

I think you are onto something.

While he was at IIT Madras, my Iyer friend fell in love with an Iyer girl.

Unfortunately, he and his lover belonged to the same gothra. His mother was dead set against this 'incestuous' relationship.

By marrying an Iyengar, he was punishing his mother. But it is still better than taking a gun and shooting a lot of people.[/quote]

>>>>himself ! Smile

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:23 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:nothing explains this sort of behavior other than losing one's marbles, but grad school can be a very lonely and punishing place. ph.d's are tough, there are no set completion points like you have when you take an undergraduate course with assignments and exams. your relationship with your advisor, his or her funding situation, and the usual ups and downs of everyday work in a lab can all really take an emotional toll. add to that petty jealousies, pressure to publish, grant deadlines, competition with fellow graduate students, and boy-girl relationship problems and it could make for a deadly brew of circumstances. i wonder if there were faculty members with watchful eyes who sensed something wasn't aright with this guy.

>>>In broader terms, I also wonder if this is the downside to an extremely invidualistic society, where people do their own thing relatively unquestioned. The law of averages would suggest whackos exist in every society to more or less the same degree, but the acting out of the fantasies is curtailed where the group dynamics involve more human interaction.

kris -- we should try to analyze the motives and the societal conditions that spawn this sort of insanity. there is certainly a lot of merit to that. these days ph.d. programs are waking up to these sort of hidden issues and are trying to do something about it at the local level if not at the university level. more social get togethers, outings, and weekly group meetings where group members hash out problems and differences.

but there is also a practical side to preventing these things and that's easy to fix if there is political will and it frustrates me every time something like this happens that one side just gives up all too easily fearing the political and financial power of the other side.

by Kris Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:35 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:nothing explains this sort of behavior other than losing one's marbles, but grad school can be a very lonely and punishing place. ph.d's are tough, there are no set completion points like you have when you take an undergraduate course with assignments and exams. your relationship with your advisor, his or her funding situation, and the usual ups and downs of everyday work in a lab can all really take an emotional toll. add to that petty jealousies, pressure to publish, grant deadlines, competition with fellow graduate students, and boy-girl relationship problems and it could make for a deadly brew of circumstances. i wonder if there were faculty members with watchful eyes who sensed something wasn't aright with this guy.

>>>In broader terms, I also wonder if this is the downside to an extremely invidualistic society, where people do their own thing relatively unquestioned. The law of averages would suggest whackos exist in every society to more or less the same degree, but the acting out of the fantasies is curtailed where the group dynamics involve more human interaction.

kris -- we should try to analyze the motives and the societal conditions that spawn this sort of insanity. there is certainly a lot of merit to that. these days ph.d. programs are waking up to these sort of hidden issues and are trying to do something about it at the local level if not at the university level. more social get togethers, outings, and weekly group meetings where group members hash out problems and differences.

but there is also a practical side to preventing these things and that's easy to fix if there is political will and it frustrates me every time something like this happens that one side just gives up all too easily fearing the political and financial power of the other side.

>>>> I share your frustration on this and I don't understand the fascination with guns and the easy access to them. Sadly, this event is not going to catalyze a reversal of the tide either on this.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:39 pm

those who fail to learn from history, despite being bludgeoned on the head with it repeatedly, are doomed to repeat it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:01 pm

82% of the NRA membership is against terrorists being able to buy guns. what a relief!

by FluteHolder Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:[this guy bought everything legally, had no run ins with the police other than one traffic violation, no criminal record nothing. absolutely nothing. how would it have helped you to check his credit or gun ownership record?

Well, After 9/11, every truck rental or unusual chemical purchse is being monitored for suspected terror activity, so why cannot they institute similar kind of check for unusual purchase of heavy arms and each check should show the already bought inventory and how it was used and if purchased more rounds, place of intended use (whether it is for hunting or firing range etc) should be monitored. I guess NRA would stub this effort but if they are serious about stopping these kind of incidents no other way.

by MulaiAzhagi Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:28 am

He reportedly failed a preliminary exam before pulling out of the program, according to ABC News' Denver affiliate KMGH-TV. It is unclear if the exam was related to his decision to leave the program.

KMGH was told that even if Holmes did fail the exam, he would not have been kicked out of the program because students have an opportunity to improve their grades with an oral exam.

"I don't know any of that and I don't know that we have any of that information on him," Anschutz Medical Campus spokeswoman Jacque Montgomery told ABCNews.com.

The university said Holmes gave no reason for asking to withdraw from the program.

Last year, Holmes applied to the University of Arizona, according to statement by the school, but was rejected, KPHO-TV in Phoenix reported.

===> I have been rejected by so many universities. What is the big deal?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:37 am

~~uppili~~ - i mean mulaiazhagan-- where did you read this? this is really scary. failing a ph.d. qualifying exam especially when you have a chance for a redo is such a flimsy reason for flipping out. these kinds of incidents involving university students are becoming a bit too frequent.

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:38 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Last year, Holmes applied to the University of Arizona, according to statement by the school, but was rejected, KPHO-TV in Phoenix reported

===> I have been rejected by so many universities. What is the big deal?

Breasty Beauty, I hope you realize that you've just confessed to yet another indicator that you might be a potential mass shooter. Have you renewed your NRA membership yet?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:~~uppili~~ - i mean mulaiazhagan-- where did you read this? this is really scary. failing a ph.d. qualifying exam especially when you have a chance for a redo is such a flimsy reason for flipping out. these kinds of incidents involving university students are becoming a bit too frequent.

Many schools have a one-time preliminary exam and then 2 time comprehensive exam. The first one, which is given in the first/second semester PhD students - weeds out the absolute duds. These duds are told to convert their PhD into a MS program, get the degree and get the hell out. Most schools have diluted this except some in highly competitive programs.

So this guy must have flunked and asked to do a MS instead and leave. He being a BS to straight PhD I am not too surprised. Glad at some schools still try to maintain some standards.

P.S. dont be too surprised if I showed up at your office door sometime next month - you have been warned (Of course, I am anti-gun and u need not worry on that account).

by MulaiAzhagi Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:11 pm

Max,

This is the link

http://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-movie-shooting-james-holmes/story?id=16829552#.UAwz1GF-mSo

BTW, a Ph.D in computer science from UT Austin told me that they had no qualifying exam (or was it comprehensive exam?) there. They had to take some required courses.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:02 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Max,
This is the link

http://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-movie-shooting-james-holmes/story?id=16829552#.UAwz1GF-mSo

BTW, a Ph.D in computer science from UT Austin told me that they had no qualifying exam (or was it comprehensive exam?) there. They had to take some required courses.

This is exactly what I am referring to. I knew a guy who did PhD at Austin in Comp sci and had to go through both preliminary AND Comprehensive exam followed by research at full swing. I suspect that they removed the preliminary exam and replaced the comprehensive exam given half-way through with this Research Preparation exam (meaning an eye-wash exam). As such only absolutely hopeless/useless guys are told to quit PhD (for his own good). Now, with less people opting for PhD, even Austin has removed them. BTW, in any case the PhD students have to take 2 years of coursework in all universities - still.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:59 pm

look how the NRA has gone all silent. not a peep whenever the shit hits the ceiling like it just did. only behind the scenes silent muffling of debate. that's their style, while we on the other side cry ourselves hoarse. assholes.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:30 pm

I heard someone telling yesterday Democratic party has become a party of fringe elements and I said the republican party has become a party of fringe groups that believe in extremism - NRA, Anti-Abortion, Christists, Tax breaks for the Looters, etc.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:57 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I heard someone telling yesterday Democratic party has become a party of fringe elements and I said the republican party has become a party of fringe groups that believe in extremism - NRA, Anti-Abortion, Christists, Tax breaks for the Looters, etc.

the democratic party has become a pussy that quakes in fear at the NRA and its political power. there is only one politician in the entire country of any stripe making a strident and bold statement about gun control and that's michael bloomberg. every other politician is in the literal or figurative pocketbook of the NRA including at some level, the president.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:30 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:I heard someone telling yesterday Democratic party has become a party of fringe elements and I said the republican party has become a party of fringe groups that believe in extremism - NRA, Anti-Abortion, Christists, Tax breaks for the Looters, etc.

the democratic party has become a pussy that quakes in fear at the NRA and its political power. there is only one politician in the entire country of any stripe making a strident and bold statement about gun control and that's michael bloomberg. every other politician is in the literal or figurative pocketbook of the NRA including at some level, the president.

I was reading some article and was surprised to find that gun control was much more stringent in the 1800s West of Mississippi. For ex, many cities forced out of town visitors to deposit their guns before entering their cities. Imagine that happening today.

by FluteHolder Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:52 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:look how the NRA has gone all silent. not a peep whenever the shit hits the ceiling like it just did. only behind the scenes silent muffling of debate. that's their style, while we on the other side cry ourselves hoarse. assholes.

I think they should deal with NRA like what they have done with Cigarette manufacturers. The tobacco settlement caused tobacco companies to pay for health care,etc.. So Similarly, there should be a law/fund which should provide lots of $ to vicitims of gun violence like these and those should be paid by legal gun owners/NRA/and major part of the funding should come from Gun manufacturers. Only $ will speak and there is no other way to change this.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:00 am

FluteHolder wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:look how the NRA has gone all silent. not a peep whenever the shit hits the ceiling like it just did. only behind the scenes silent muffling of debate. that's their style, while we on the other side cry ourselves hoarse. assholes.

I think they should deal with NRA like what they have done with Cigarette manufacturers. The tobacco settlement caused tobacco companies to pay for health care,etc.. So Similarly, there should be a law/fund which should provide lots of $ to vicitims of gun violence like these and those should be paid by legal gun owners/NRA/and major part of the funding should come from Gun manufacturers. Only $ will speak and there is no other way to change this.

You need to establish a causal relationship so it can only be the gun manufacturers. NRA is just a bunch of people with an opinion - you can't penalize them for holding an opinion. Likewise, other gun holders.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:19 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

You need to establish a causal relationship so it can only be the gun manufacturers. NRA is just a bunch of people with an opinion - you can't penalize them for holding an opinion. Likewise, other gun holders.

they are not just a bunch of people. they are a well financed lobby machine who have a vice grip on the collective testicles of congress. politicians are terrified of them. they provide letter grades A-F for every single politician. they need to be reined in if we want to prevent more bloodshed from gun violence.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:36 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:

You need to establish a causal relationship so it can only be the gun manufacturers. NRA is just a bunch of people with an opinion - you can't penalize them for holding an opinion. Likewise, other gun holders.

they are not just a bunch of people. they are a well financed lobby machine who have a vice grip on the collective testicles of congress. politicians are terrified of them. they provide letter grades A-F for every single politician. they need to be reined in if we want to prevent more bloodshed from gun violence.

Ok, so in addition to holding a strong opinion, they are advocating it very effectively leveraging the power of numbers in a democracy. In other words, they are using the essence of democracy to their advantage.

You sir, on the other hand, are an east coast elitist who looks down on popular choices and wants to ride roughshod on the constitutional right to bear arms.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:44 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Ok, so in addition to holding a strong opinion, they are advocating it very effectively leveraging the power of numbers in a democracy. In other words, they are using the essence of democracy to their advantage.

You sir, on the other hand, are an east coast elitist who looks down on popular choices and wants to ride roughshod on the constitutional right to bear arms.

you might be saying this just to provoke a response which is fine, but i wonder if you actually drink that koolaid. you've lived in the US long enough before returning to india to know well the role of corporate lobbies in american politics. and i am sure you are well aware of the roiling controversy about the power of individuals, or rather the lack of it, against these lobbies. american democracy as strong as it is, has its faults. the outsized and IMO ultimately democracy-degrading influence of corporate lobbies is one of them. the NRA is certainly one such lobby.

by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:17 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Ok, so in addition to holding a strong opinion, they are advocating it very effectively leveraging the power of numbers in a democracy. In other words, they are using the essence of democracy to their advantage.

You sir, on the other hand, are an east coast elitist who looks down on popular choices and wants to ride roughshod on the constitutional right to bear arms.

you might be saying this just to provoke a response which is fine, but i wonder if you actually drink that koolaid. you've lived in the US long enough before returning to india to know well the role of corporate lobbies in american politics. and i am sure you are well aware of the roiling controversy about the power of individuals, or rather the lack of it, against these lobbies. american democracy as strong as it is, has its faults. the outsized and IMO ultimately democracy-degrading influence of corporate lobbies is one of them. the NRA is certainly one such lobby.

i was discussing this issue with an american who told me that having a gun helps the poor in the U.S. feed themselves through hunting. it was for this reason that he supported the NRA position. what do you think about this?

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:13 am

Rashmun wrote:
i was discussing this issue with an american who told me that having a gun helps the poor in the U.S. feed themselves through hunting. it was for this reason that he supported the NRA position. what do you think about this?

utter unadulterated baloney. the poor in the US go to mcdonalds to feed themselves. look at the economics of obesity in the US and you'll know what i am saying is the truth.

in any case even if that were true, why do people who hunt for food need these horrific automatic weapons that can discharge 100 rounds without reloading?

by Idéfix Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:41 am

Here are annual homicide rates and numbers for some of the largest rich countries (source: Wikipedia)

United States - 11,127 (3.601/100,000)
Canada – 165 (0.484/100,000)
Germany – 381 (0.466/100,000)
France – 255 (0.389/100,000)
Australia – 65 (0.292/100,000)
United Kingdom – 68 (0.109/100,000)
Japan – 39 (0.030/100,000)

That's right, the homicide rate in the US is between 8 and 100 times more than that in other developed countries which have better gun control. The irony is that "pro-life" people who want to restrict abortion rights want no part of gun control that will save the lives of thousands of people every year.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:12 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you might be saying this just to provoke a response which is fine, but i wonder if you actually drink that koolaid.

Haha not at all. But there is an elaborate point I might eventually make. Or not.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you've lived in the US long enough before returning to india to know well the role of corporate lobbies in american politics. and i am sure you are well aware of the roiling controversy about the power of individuals, or rather the lack of it, against these lobbies.

Yes. I agree with you when it comes to the banking lobby, the sugar lobby and so on which are known to hijack public policy to further the commercial interests of specific industries. However, the NRA is not a corporate lobby. Their advocacy certainly benefits the gun makers but that is incidental. This is an grassroots organization driven by ideology. They espouse a popular and constitution-backed PoV which they advocate leveraging the power of their numbers and funding (aka "essence of democracy"). Just because you disagree with that PoV doesn't make them any more democracy-degrading than, say, moveon.org.

by Maria S Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 pm

panini press wrote:Here are annual homicide rates and numbers for some of the largest rich countries (source: Wikipedia)

United States - 11,127 (3.601/100,000)
Canada – 165 (0.484/100,000)
Germany – 381 (0.466/100,000)
France – 255 (0.389/100,000)
Australia – 65 (0.292/100,000)
United Kingdom – 68 (0.109/100,000)
Japan – 39 (0.030/100,000)

That's right, the homicide rate in the US is between 8 and 100 times more than that in other developed countries which have better gun control. The irony is that "pro-life" people who want to restrict abortion rights want no part of gun control that will save the lives of thousands of people every year.

In the US:

*Surely, gun culture-easy access to firearms is a huge problem (Nope, hunting is just a smokescreen, and I live in places where people do cling to guns-lots of them..and they can hunt very well without all the automatic/semi-automatic firearms).

*The other major issues..poor Health Care/No Health Ins. coverage- for millions (Mental Health Care System is messed up- with stigma and no access for those who perhaps really need it).

*Prison culture..booming industry..with so many profiting from them..perhaps like in no other country.

*Movie violence..the "blurring" of "real and reel" in the minds of esp. young people..who are obsessed with violent images..combine all the other factors..Yes, for mature minds (like us- the smart and wise:) we are so good in separating the realities and fantasies:)) But, for a young person..already unstable..the line is rather thin.

*Lack of family structure/support.

and others..

Obviously..after all this..no one can prevent all of the tragic events..But, it's worth trying to decrease these fatalities in the US, where there is such a disconnect..where 40-50 die every die- because of gun violence..and it's an attitude of "us vs. them" - (it's their problem)..until them are no longer isolated and are part of our world..

Having vented..sadly- nothing may happen..Gun Control, Health Care System changes..nope, frustrating indeed.
*Rich Country- kindly look up the most recent stats: Rich for some, sure)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-poverty-on-track-to-reach-46-year-high-suburbs-underemployed-workers-children-hit-hard/2012/07/22/gJQA3Xa01W_story.html

To me, everything is interconnected..if you want to solve problems..have to sincerely look at all the challenges.

by artood2 Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:33 pm

Maria S wrote:
panini press wrote:Here are annual homicide rates and numbers for some of the largest rich countries (source: Wikipedia)

United States - 11,127 (3.601/100,000)
Canada – 165 (0.484/100,000)
Germany – 381 (0.466/100,000)
France – 255 (0.389/100,000)
Australia – 65 (0.292/100,000)
United Kingdom – 68 (0.109/100,000)
Japan – 39 (0.030/100,000)

That's right, the homicide rate in the US is between 8 and 100 times more than that in other developed countries which have better gun control. The irony is that "pro-life" people who want to restrict abortion rights want no part of gun control that will save the lives of thousands of people every year.

In the US:

*Surely, gun culture-easy access to firearms is a huge problem (Nope, hunting is just a smokescreen, and I live in places where people do cling to guns-lots of them..and they can hunt very well without all the automatic/semi-automatic firearms).

*The other major issues..poor Health Care/No Health Ins. coverage- for millions (Mental Health Care System is messed up- with stigma and no access for those who perhaps really need it).

*Prison culture..booming industry..with so many profiting from them..perhaps like in no other country.

*Movie violence..the "blurring" of "real and reel" in the minds of esp. young people..who are obsessed with violent images..combine all the other factors..Yes, for mature minds (like us- the smart and wise:) we are so good in separating the realities and fantasies:)) But, for a young person..already unstable..the line is rather thin.

*Lack of family structure/support.

and others..

Obviously..after all this..no one can prevent all of the tragic events..But, it's worth trying to decrease these fatalities in the US, where there is such a disconnect..where 40-50 die every die- because of gun violence..and it's an attitude of "us vs. them" - (it's their problem)..until them are no longer isolated and are part of our world..

Having vented..sadly- nothing may happen..Gun Control, Health Care System changes..nope, frustrating indeed.
*Rich Country- kindly look up the most recent stats: Rich for some, sure)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-poverty-on-track-to-reach-46-year-high-suburbs-underemployed-workers-children-hit-hard/2012/07/22/gJQA3Xa01W_story.html

To me, everything is interconnected..if you want to solve problems..have to sincerely look at all the challenges.

all the things you mentioned relates to creation of anti-social elements/psychos. gun control is simply taking the gun out of their hands. While you work on fixing those guys please take the automatics away.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:06 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:those who fail to learn from history, despite being bludgeoned on the head with it repeatedly, are doomed to repeat it.

If you haven't watched yesterday's Daily Show, check it out. Jon Stewart captures how Fox News talking heads have been saying explicitly that we should NOT have a national debate about guns at this point.

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