Wednesday Trivia #34: Jul 31, 2012

panini press wrote:4. Kharosthi is the name of the earliest script used on the Indian subcontinent. It is dated to circa the third century BCE. It was used on coins and inscriptions to write Sanskrit, Pali and the local dialects of the region. Below is a picture of a paper strip with Kharosthi writing on it. The script was deciphered by James Princep in the early 19th century by studying coins with both Indian and Greek lettering on them. While Kharosthi was an important step in the adoption of a written alphabet in India, it differs from all Indic scripts in one crucial respect. What is the difference?

panini press wrote:6. The literal meaning of the name of this place is “abode of the deathless.” The name of this real place is also used as the name for heaven in Hindu mythology. This small riverside town today was once the capital of a mighty empire. Many centuries ago, it was home to what was likely the largest Buddhist stupa in the Indian subcontinent. Buddhist chronicles in Tibet and Sri Lanka mention the huge stupa at this place, and the Dalai Lama performed a ceremony here in 2006. After the decline of Buddhism in India, the place was buried under rubble and was rediscovered in the 19th century. Name this town.

panini press wrote:5. In the first half of the 19th century, as England was going through the Industrial Revolution, one set of laws defined the biggest political battleground. On one side were the landowning aristocrats, and on the other were capitalists and merchants who were getting wealthier and clamoring for great political and social status. Repealing these laws was the hope and dream of free trade activists whose intellectual leader was David Ricardo. The group that fought for the repeal founded the Economist magazine which is still a torchbearer for free market principles. What is the name by which these laws are known?

panini press wrote:1. The term Indochina was used in colonial times for southeast Asia, particularly the eastern portions of it that were under French control (Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos). The term Serindia is similar; it is derived from the names of India and another country. The term is most commonly used in the field of art history. In which region did Serindian art flourish, and what country?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:your turn was on august 16th:

schedule:

July 18: HK (substituting for PP)
July 25: Indo
Aug 2: HK (substituting for BW)
Aug 9: PI
Aug 16: PP
Aug 23: Indo
Aug 30: BW
Sep 6: PI
Sep 13: PP

but it is OK. you have substituted for BW this week. you will have to post a set again on august 16th.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:4. Kharosthi is the name of the earliest script used on the Indian subcontinent. It is dated to circa the third century BCE. It was used on coins and inscriptions to write Sanskrit, Pali and the local dialects of the region. Below is a picture of a paper strip with Kharosthi writing on it. The script was deciphered by James Princep in the early 19th century by studying coins with both Indian and Greek lettering on them. While Kharosthi was an important step in the adoption of a written alphabet in India, it differs from all Indic scripts in one crucial respect. What is the difference?

it is read and written from right to left. it is conjectured that panini wrote the sanskrit grammar in kharosthi on birch-bark.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:your turn was on august 16th:

schedule:

July 18: HK (substituting for PP)
July 25: Indo
Aug 2: HK (substituting for BW)
Aug 9: PI
Aug 16: PP
Aug 23: Indo
Aug 30: BW
Sep 6: PI
Sep 13: PP

but it is OK. you have substituted for BW this week. you will have to post a set again on august 16th.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:4. Kharosthi is the name of the earliest script used on the Indian subcontinent. It is dated to circa the third century BCE. It was used on coins and inscriptions to write Sanskrit, Pali and the local dialects of the region. Below is a picture of a paper strip with Kharosthi writing on it. The script was deciphered by James Princep in the early 19th century by studying coins with both Indian and Greek lettering on them. While Kharosthi was an important step in the adoption of a written alphabet in India, it differs from all Indic scripts in one crucial respect. What is the difference?

it is read and written from right to left. it is conjectured that panini wrote the sanskrit grammar in kharosthi on birch-bark.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
and here is a stamp i once divined designed:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:6. The literal meaning of the name of this place is “abode of the deathless.” The name of this real place is also used as the name for heaven in Hindu mythology. This small riverside town today was once the capital of a mighty empire. Many centuries ago, it was home to what was likely the largest Buddhist stupa in the Indian subcontinent. Buddhist chronicles in Tibet and Sri Lanka mention the huge stupa at this place, and the Dalai Lama performed a ceremony here in 2006. After the decline of Buddhism in India, the place was buried under rubble and was rediscovered in the 19th century. Name this town.

either bodh gaya or gaya. the dalai lama performed a ceremony in gaya this year too (as in 2006).

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:5. In the first half of the 19th century, as England was going through the Industrial Revolution, one set of laws defined the biggest political battleground. On one side were the landowning aristocrats, and on the other were capitalists and merchants who were getting wealthier and clamoring for great political and social status. Repealing these laws was the hope and dream of free trade activists whose intellectual leader was David Ricardo. The group that fought for the repeal founded the Economist magazine which is still a torchbearer for free market principles. What is the name by which these laws are known?

laissez faire?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:1. The term Indochina was used in colonial times for southeast Asia, particularly the eastern portions of it that were under French control (Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos). The term Serindia is similar; it is derived from the names of India and another country. The term is most commonly used in the field of art history. In which region did Serindian art flourish, and what country?

wild guess. if indochina is SE asia, serindia is central asia -- area bordering china and india (upper reach of silk road)?

indophile wrote:1. Ceylon

indophile wrote:2. Ashoka

indophile wrote:4. Kharoshti is written right to left, like Arabic

indophile wrote:6. Amaravati in AP.

indophile wrote:5. Comparitive Advantage (in trade)

7. Brazil.

Silk Smitha wrote:7. Amtrak?

panini press wrote:Correct. The book I just read also suggests that Chanakya may have been a student of Panini at Takshashila.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:Correct. The book I just read also suggests that Chanakya may have been a student of Panini at Takshashila.

and the book is...?

panini press wrote:Here are some hints:

3. His father Daniel was a gentleman of independent means and a friend of David Hume and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The son graduated with first-class honors from Cambridge as the Ninth Wrangler in mathematics. He served as an Anglican curate in Surrey. He had a cleft lip and palate that affected his speech. He was a professor of History and Political Economy at the East India Company College at Haileybury, where he was a colleague and friend of John Stuart Mill. He enjoyed a warm personal friendship with the famous economist David Ricardo, although they had constant and vigorous disagreements about economics. His students called him “Pop.” He wrote many books and papers, but he is most remembered now for an essay he began writing after an argument about a topic with his father. This essay was cited by Charles Darwin as a key influence in developing the theory of natural selection. Name this priest-mathematician-economist who influenced biology.

Hint: The nickname his students gave him -- Pop -- is short for a longer English word. The professor is now remembered mostly in connection with that longer word.

5. In the first half of the 19th century, as England was going through the Industrial Revolution, one set of laws defined the biggest political battleground. On one side were the landowning aristocrats, and on the other were capitalists and merchants who were getting wealthier and clamoring for great political and social status. Repealing these laws was the hope and dream of free trade activists whose intellectual leader was David Ricardo. The group that fought for the repeal founded the Economist magazine which is still a torchbearer for free market principles. What is the name by which these laws are known?

Hint: The law in question barred the importation of a type of agricultural produce into England, unless the local price of that product was above an artificially high level. This ensured that prices for that type of product remained high, resulting greater rents for agricultural lands, thereby benefiting the aristocratic landlords.

7. Indian Railways operates for the most part Broad Gauge (aka Indian Gauge) tracks with a distance of 1.676 m (5.5 feet) between the two tracks. It is broader than the Standard Gauge used in North America, Europe, China and Australia. The idea is that a broader gauge provides greater stability and increases ride comfort. The Delhi and Kolkata Metro systems use this gauge, while the other systems under construction opted for Standard Gauge. Broad Gauge is pervasive in the subcontinent, but not common overseas. One particular transit system in the US uses this gauge, and two countries in South America use it extensively. Name either country or the US transit system that uses Indian Gauge.

Hint: The US transit system serving a major metropolitan area was built in the '60s and '70s. The two Latin American countries are large neighbors usually at odds with each other. Neither of them is Brazil.

indophile wrote:Interesting. Chanakya was supposed to be Chandragupta Maurya's teacher/advisor. Chandragupta Maurya was around in early 300 B.C (Alexander's invasion was 326 B.C, and Chandragupta became king of Magadha after that event). So Chanakya must be a 300s B.C. man. But Panini reportedly wrote his Ashtadhyaayi (8-chaptered work on Sanskrit grammar, all 46 modern pages of it) during 600s B.C. So Chanakya being a student of Panini appears not plausible, or something is amiss.

Silk Smitha wrote:

panini press wrote:Here are some hints:

3. His father Daniel was a gentleman of independent means and a friend of David Hume and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The son graduated with first-class honors from Cambridge as the Ninth Wrangler in mathematics. He served as an Anglican curate in Surrey. He had a cleft lip and palate that affected his speech. He was a professor of History and Political Economy at the East India Company College at Haileybury, where he was a colleague and friend of John Stuart Mill. He enjoyed a warm personal friendship with the famous economist David Ricardo, although they had constant and vigorous disagreements about economics. His students called him “Pop.” He wrote many books and papers, but he is most remembered now for an essay he began writing after an argument about a topic with his father. This essay was cited by Charles Darwin as a key influence in developing the theory of natural selection. Name this priest-mathematician-economist who influenced biology.

Hint: The nickname his students gave him -- Pop -- is short for a longer English word. The professor is now remembered mostly in connection with that longer word.

5. In the first half of the 19th century, as England was going through the Industrial Revolution, one set of laws defined the biggest political battleground. On one side were the landowning aristocrats, and on the other were capitalists and merchants who were getting wealthier and clamoring for great political and social status. Repealing these laws was the hope and dream of free trade activists whose intellectual leader was David Ricardo. The group that fought for the repeal founded the Economist magazine which is still a torchbearer for free market principles. What is the name by which these laws are known?

Hint: The law in question barred the importation of a type of agricultural produce into England, unless the local price of that product was above an artificially high level. This ensured that prices for that type of product remained high, resulting greater rents for agricultural lands, thereby benefiting the aristocratic landlords.

7. Indian Railways operates for the most part Broad Gauge (aka Indian Gauge) tracks with a distance of 1.676 m (5.5 feet) between the two tracks. It is broader than the Standard Gauge used in North America, Europe, China and Australia. The idea is that a broader gauge provides greater stability and increases ride comfort. The Delhi and Kolkata Metro systems use this gauge, while the other systems under construction opted for Standard Gauge. Broad Gauge is pervasive in the subcontinent, but not common overseas. One particular transit system in the US uses this gauge, and two countries in South America use it extensively. Name either country or the US transit system that uses Indian Gauge.

Hint: The US transit system serving a major metropolitan area was built in the '60s and '70s. The two Latin American countries are large neighbors usually at odds with each other. Neither of them is Brazil.

Chile & Argentina? Is that BART? My second guess would be LA's rail system.

panini press wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

panini press wrote:Correct. The book I just read also suggests that Chanakya may have been a student of Panini at Takshashila.

and the book is...?

https://such.forumotion.com/t7290-ashoka-by-charles-allen

indophile wrote:Interesting. Chanakya was supposed to be Chandragupta Maurya's teacher/advisor. Chandragupta Maurya was around in early 300 B.C (Alexander's invasion was 326 B.C, and Chandragupta became king of Magadha after that event). So Chanakya must be a 300s B.C. man. But Panini reportedly wrote his Ashtadhyaayi (8-chaptered work on Sanskrit grammar, all 46 modern pages of it) during 600s B.C. So Chanakya being a student of Panini appears not plausible, or something is amiss.

indophile wrote:Interesting. Chanakya was supposed to be Chandragupta Maurya's teacher/advisor. Chandragupta Maurya was around in early 300 B.C (Alexander's invasion was 326 B.C, and Chandragupta became king of Magadha after that event). So Chanakya must be a 300s B.C. man. But Panini reportedly wrote his Ashtadhyaayi (8-chaptered work on Sanskrit grammar, all 46 modern pages of it) during 600s B.C. So Chanakya being a student of Panini appears not plausible, or something is amiss.

Silk Smitha wrote:5. Corn law?

panini press wrote:

Silk Smitha wrote:5. Corn law?

Correct, the Corn Laws were a major topic in the early days of free trade.

panini press wrote:Here are a few more hints.
3. His father Daniel was a gentleman of independent means and a friend of David Hume and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The son graduated with first-class honors from Cambridge as the Ninth Wrangler in mathematics. He served as an Anglican curate in Surrey. He had a cleft lip and palate that affected his speech. He was a professor of History and Political Economy at the East India Company College at Haileybury, where he was a colleague and friend of John Stuart Mill. He enjoyed a warm personal friendship with the famous economist David Ricardo, although they had constant and vigorous disagreements about economics. His students called him “Pop.” He wrote many books and papers, but he is most remembered now for an essay he began writing after an argument about a topic with his father. This essay was cited by Charles Darwin as a key influence in developing the theory of natural selection. Name this priest-mathematician-economist who influenced biology.

Hint 1: The nickname his students gave him -- Pop -- is short for a longer English word. The professor is now remembered mostly in connection with that longer word.

Hint 2: Based on this scholar's theory, disaster was expected for India in the 1960s. When that disaster did not come to pass, his theory was relegated to the back seat in mainstream economics, although it comes up again from time to time.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

panini press wrote:Here are a few more hints.
3. His father Daniel was a gentleman of independent means and a friend of David Hume and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The son graduated with first-class honors from Cambridge as the Ninth Wrangler in mathematics. He served as an Anglican curate in Surrey. He had a cleft lip and palate that affected his speech. He was a professor of History and Political Economy at the East India Company College at Haileybury, where he was a colleague and friend of John Stuart Mill. He enjoyed a warm personal friendship with the famous economist David Ricardo, although they had constant and vigorous disagreements about economics. His students called him “Pop.” He wrote many books and papers, but he is most remembered now for an essay he began writing after an argument about a topic with his father. This essay was cited by Charles Darwin as a key influence in developing the theory of natural selection. Name this priest-mathematician-economist who influenced biology.

Hint 1: The nickname his students gave him -- Pop -- is short for a longer English word. The professor is now remembered mostly in connection with that longer word.

Hint 2: Based on this scholar's theory, disaster was expected for India in the 1960s. When that disaster did not come to pass, his theory was relegated to the back seat in mainstream economics, although it comes up again from time to time.

First hint itself was sufficient, thanks. Has to be Malthus.

panini press wrote:

indophile wrote:Interesting. Chanakya was supposed to be Chandragupta Maurya's teacher/advisor. Chandragupta Maurya was around in early 300 B.C (Alexander's invasion was 326 B.C, and Chandragupta became king of Magadha after that event). So Chanakya must be a 300s B.C. man. But Panini reportedly wrote his Ashtadhyaayi (8-chaptered work on Sanskrit grammar, all 46 modern pages of it) during 600s B.C. So Chanakya being a student of Panini appears not plausible, or something is amiss.

This is what Allen says in the footnotes regarding the Panini date.

Although traditionally dated to earlier centuries, the fact that Panini uses the word yavanani, or 'Greek script', in his Asthadhyayi points to the fourth century BCE. His mention of King Ambhi, who ruled before and after Alexander, narrows him down to that same era. The unreliable Manjusri-mula-tantra specifically links Panini to Nanda: 'the king Virasena will rule for 70 years and will be succeeded by the king Nanda. The latter's reign will endure 56 years and his friend will be the Brahman Panini. Then there will appear the king Chandragupta...'

Elsewhere in the book, Allen says the Manjusri-mula-tantra is a "tenth-century Indo-Tibetan chronicle masquerading as prophesy in the manner of the Puranas."

My own view is that this is nothing more than a speculation, albeit a fascinating speculation. Both Panini and Chanakya are considered among the greatest minds India ever produced, so what a fascinating tale if the one taught the other! The reason I don't buy Allen's claim: the presence of the word yavanani in the Asthadhyayi is not enough. The Achaemenid Persians who conquered Gandhara prior to Alexander's Madeconians fought extensively with the Greeks, and considered them primarily Ionians (yavana in Sanskrit / yunani in Farsi). So the Sanskrit word yavana would likely have been coined a long time before the Macedonians (whom even the Greeks didn't really consider their people) arrived in Gandhara. As for the claim in the 10th century book, that's distorted by 13-16 centuries of distance, so it is unreliable as Allen himself points out.

One highly speculative argument I can make for the more recent date for Panini is the fact that Ashoka's edicts were in Magadhi Prakrit, not formal Sanskrit. In later times, classical Sanskrit was the chosen form poets and kings used to perpetuate their memories. If Panini wrote his grammar circa 300 BCE, it is plausible that it took at least a couple of centuries before it attained the reputation and desirability it holds even now among intellectual circles. If OTOH he wrote circa 600 BCE, I would expect a 200 BCE ruler to be using the formal language. This is pure speculation on my part, of course -- Allen does not advance this theory.