Paul Ryan for VP?
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truthbetold
Maria S
MaxEntropy_Man
Obnoxious
8 posters
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Paul Ryan for VP?
So they say. I would have preferred Santorum.
Obnoxious- Posts : 752
Join date : 2012-05-09
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
i'd have preferred the silk smitha of the GoP, sexy sarah.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Looks like it's almost official..will be very shortly.
Never paid much attention to Mr. Paul Ryan..
Early impressions..
A handsome and somewhat sexy man..goodness those blue eyes are strikingly attractive (*I don't say that often, and think dark brown and black eyes are the most attractive!)
He seems to have middle class roots- background..not from the Ivy League-s, which are appealing:)
Apparently, he is an Ayn Rand's admirer of philosophies..I dont' care for her self-absorption/obsession (some call it fascism, I don't) in the name of individualism..so that is a big turn off.
Really don't like the idea of privatizing Entitlements- Medicare and Social Security at all, which he seems to be pushing.
Let's see if he can deal with the extreme scrutiny/digging up of personal info..and onslaught.
Hmm..It's all Men- four men..well, it is what is:)
Game on!
Never paid much attention to Mr. Paul Ryan..
Early impressions..
A handsome and somewhat sexy man..goodness those blue eyes are strikingly attractive (*I don't say that often, and think dark brown and black eyes are the most attractive!)
He seems to have middle class roots- background..not from the Ivy League-s, which are appealing:)
Apparently, he is an Ayn Rand's admirer of philosophies..I dont' care for her self-absorption/obsession (some call it fascism, I don't) in the name of individualism..so that is a big turn off.
Really don't like the idea of privatizing Entitlements- Medicare and Social Security at all, which he seems to be pushing.
Let's see if he can deal with the extreme scrutiny/digging up of personal info..and onslaught.
Hmm..It's all Men- four men..well, it is what is:)
Game on!
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Interesting and bold choice.
+ves
Maria covered looks part.
Strong conservative policy wonk has ideas
Bold to suggest changes(some say gutted) to entitlements
Speaks coherently likely strong debater
Tea party hero christian favorite
-ves
total obstructionist no compromise idealist
House leader with very rigid stances
gives dems lot of ways to attack
Joins romney to house republican sins
General comments
ryan is no sarah palin wisconsin is lost obama mn and iowa could be his focus.
+ves
Maria covered looks part.
Strong conservative policy wonk has ideas
Bold to suggest changes(some say gutted) to entitlements
Speaks coherently likely strong debater
Tea party hero christian favorite
-ves
total obstructionist no compromise idealist
House leader with very rigid stances
gives dems lot of ways to attack
Joins romney to house republican sins
General comments
ryan is no sarah palin wisconsin is lost obama mn and iowa could be his focus.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Whoa! That was fast..Good Morning TBT!
Liked your balanced views and totally agree!
Bold Choice (will give Romney that!)
Seems fiesty-articulate-can be a good debater.
He is a Catholic Conservative..will help with those Christian-base/Southern votes.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Maria
Out here some people feel if you are sleeping in summer after sun rise you are too lazy.
I am trying to learn more about ryan. He is a serious policy guy but his policies could be detrimental to poor. He probably would be more effective if he is willing to listen and learn from the other side. He is young and he has time. Is his time now? I want to see obama continue for four more.
Romney is a stuffed shirt and paul is somewhat similar except he is not smart enough to be as arrogant as romney.
Out here some people feel if you are sleeping in summer after sun rise you are too lazy.
I am trying to learn more about ryan. He is a serious policy guy but his policies could be detrimental to poor. He probably would be more effective if he is willing to listen and learn from the other side. He is young and he has time. Is his time now? I want to see obama continue for four more.
Romney is a stuffed shirt and paul is somewhat similar except he is not smart enough to be as arrogant as romney.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
truthbetold wrote:Maria
He is a serious policy guy but his policies could be detrimental to poor. He probably would be more effective if he is willing to listen and learn from the other side.
what does the above even mean? everyone in politics, esp with presidential office dreams are all serious policy guys and policies are almost always detrimental to "a sector" of the population. I am not sure how and why that plays in his candidacy.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.
Impedimenta- Posts : 2791
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
truthbetold wrote:Maria
Out here some people feel if you are sleeping in summer after sun rise you are too lazy.
I am trying to learn more about ryan. He is a serious policy guy but his policies could be detrimental to poor. He probably would be more effective if he is willing to listen and learn from the other side. He is young and he has time. Is his time now? I want to see obama continue for four more.
Romney is a stuffed shirt and paul is somewhat similar except he is not smart enough to be as arrogant as romney.
I am among that "some people"..am always an early-riser:)
I am watching Ryan live..as everyone..Oops, poor Mr. Romney, he mixed up Pres and VP..
Ok, back to early impressions..after that grand entry- running down the battleship like a combo of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tim Tebow..good looks and energy cut both ways..although he is "telegenic"..he seems a little too young..more collegeish-internish. After few mins..he lost my concentration listening to his stump speech..will go back and try to focus again..
Will be back later.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Maria
agree with you on ryan's run to the mike and first 3 quarters of his speech. While he did not commit any blunders he was parroting often used repub right wing lines. While it may be ok to barrow from the library of right and famous i feel he did not use that part of his speech effectively.
However he hit upon a good theme towards the end saying america was found on an idea. He maintained that freshness till the end. If he can expand on the last few minutes of his speech and stop pushing difficult to sell romney he may be effective.
one silly point. I am distracted by that lock of hair that is out of place on the back of his head.
agree with you on ryan's run to the mike and first 3 quarters of his speech. While he did not commit any blunders he was parroting often used repub right wing lines. While it may be ok to barrow from the library of right and famous i feel he did not use that part of his speech effectively.
However he hit upon a good theme towards the end saying america was found on an idea. He maintained that freshness till the end. If he can expand on the last few minutes of his speech and stop pushing difficult to sell romney he may be effective.
one silly point. I am distracted by that lock of hair that is out of place on the back of his head.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Impy
'you are angry and you are mad' (to barrow a phrase from charvaka).
i will ignore the nastiness of your reply but try to respond to your reaction.
what does the above even mean? everyone in politics, esp with presidential office dreams are all serious policy guys and policies are almost always detrimental to "a sector" of the population. I am not sure how and why that plays in his candidacy.
tbt: your question is better directed to ryan himself. He calls himself a policy nerd. Unlike your belief
Out of 435 congressmen only a select few were considered serious policy wonks.
tbt:there is a difference between policies that help a group and policies that take away important support systems they currently have.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.[/quote]
'you are angry and you are mad' (to barrow a phrase from charvaka).
i will ignore the nastiness of your reply but try to respond to your reaction.
what does the above even mean? everyone in politics, esp with presidential office dreams are all serious policy guys and policies are almost always detrimental to "a sector" of the population. I am not sure how and why that plays in his candidacy.
tbt: your question is better directed to ryan himself. He calls himself a policy nerd. Unlike your belief
Out of 435 congressmen only a select few were considered serious policy wonks.
tbt:there is a difference between policies that help a group and policies that take away important support systems they currently have.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.[/quote]
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Impy
You liking ryan or romney has little bearing on facts or my opinion on them.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Tbt: are you suggesting us low lifes who do not know successful rich people do not know how they think and behave? Based on your assessment of our knowledge base you think we the voting public should refrain from judging the candidate romney?
Why is calling romney arrogant considered flippant? What do you know about my knowledge of romney's political history. I am assuming you are aware that romney was in public eye from 80s olympics mass governor 2008 presidential repub nominee and current repub nominee. He has a well publicized public comment history that provides reasonable insight into his class philosophy and thinking. While i am not be as smart as you are i do pay attention the world aroud me.
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.[/quote]
You liking ryan or romney has little bearing on facts or my opinion on them.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Tbt: are you suggesting us low lifes who do not know successful rich people do not know how they think and behave? Based on your assessment of our knowledge base you think we the voting public should refrain from judging the candidate romney?
Why is calling romney arrogant considered flippant? What do you know about my knowledge of romney's political history. I am assuming you are aware that romney was in public eye from 80s olympics mass governor 2008 presidential repub nominee and current repub nominee. He has a well publicized public comment history that provides reasonable insight into his class philosophy and thinking. While i am not be as smart as you are i do pay attention the world aroud me.
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.[/quote]
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
[/quote]truthbetold wrote:Impy
You liking ryan or romney has little bearing on facts or my opinion on them.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Tbt: are you suggesting us low lifes who do not know successful rich people do not know how they think and behave? Based on your assessment of our knowledge base you think we the voting public should refrain from judging the candidate romney?
Why is calling romney arrogant considered flippant? What do you know about my knowledge of romney's political history. I am assuming you are aware that romney was in public eye from 80s olympics mass governor 2008 presidential repub nominee and current repub nominee. He has a well publicized public comment history that provides reasonable insight into his class philosophy and thinking. While i am not be as smart as you are i do pay attention the world aroud me.
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.
Mr. Mittons put the Palnists in his pocket by picking Ryan.
So we have a great combo: the Tax break for the "Rich Ryan" as VP and "Milk the Tax Laws to become rich" Romney.
Goodie...so in all this, Biden is the weak link. Let us see.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Impedimenta wrote:truthbetold wrote:Maria
He is a serious policy guy but his policies could be detrimental to poor. He probably would be more effective if he is willing to listen and learn from the other side.
what does the above even mean? everyone in politics, esp with presidential office dreams are all serious policy guys and policies are almost always detrimental to "a sector" of the population. I am not sure how and why that plays in his candidacy.
i like that guy. Also you flippantly call Romney arrogant. i wonder why. because he is rich, successful and makes more money than anyone you or me know?
Ryan is a clever choice. he is young, intelligent and conservative.
Imp the chimp,
His policies help only one sector of population that is rich. Even if their policies are detrimental to one sector, it does matter. More so when they are fighting on the economic platform.
Why is romney arrogant. Well Cookiegate, Wanna bet $10,000?, my friends are nascar owners, his press secretary "kiss my ass"(not fired), etc, etc.
Obnoxious- Posts : 752
Join date : 2012-05-09
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
McCain picked Palin to energize his base and alienated independents in the process. Romney picked Ryan to energize his base. Both McCain and Romney were too liberal for the GOP base, and the conservative wingnuts thought they needed to bolster their conservative credentials in their VP. Both caved in to that pressure. Time -- and the economy -- will tell whether Romney's cave in works any better than McCain's did. But the nature of a party that consistently picks a right-of-center candidate in primaries, and then tries to push him to the far right in the general, is quite fascinating.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
i think this pick is a sign of weakness, not strength. surely this is not going to peel any votes off obama's base or independents. the only reason he'd pick ryan is because he is not completely certain that he has solidified his own base, just like mccain was not sure of his own base in 08.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
a very interesting opinion piece in the post today.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/with-ryan-pick-romney-doubles-down-on-economic-radicalism/2012/08/11/7f8e67a2-e3b2-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html
if romney really signs on to the ryan plan in all its glory, it's going to be like the french revolution. the second amendment is going to become really consequential.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/with-ryan-pick-romney-doubles-down-on-economic-radicalism/2012/08/11/7f8e67a2-e3b2-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html
In picking Ryan, Romney is confirming his commitment to full-flown economic radicalism — something that he had kept well disguised until the Tax Policy Center study unmasked it. The central idea driving the GOP ticket is not just that tax hikes on the rich must be avoided at all costs. It’s that dramatically reducing the tax burden on the wealthy — coupled with deep cuts to social programs and a quasi-voucherizing of Medicare — is the route back to prosperity.
Call it the “Ryan/Romney vision.” Not the “Romney/Ryan vision.” The “Ryan/Romney vision.” The Ryan pick was urged upon Romney by conservatives who wanted him to “go bold,” i.e., to confirm beyond doubt that he will govern from the Ryan blueprint. “We want the Ryan budget,” Grover Norquist said recently, adding that the paramount requirement in the next president is that he have “enough working digits to handle a pen” to sign it. The Ryan pick is a triumph for this wing of the party
if romney really signs on to the ryan plan in all its glory, it's going to be like the french revolution. the second amendment is going to become really consequential.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
and here is that tax policy study frequently referred to in the washington post opinion piece. a lot of detail. good weekend reading:
http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2012/08/01-tax-reform-brown-gale-looney
http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2012/08/01-tax-reform-brown-gale-looney
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
that tax policy study is a must read folks. PLEASE read it, especially if you are planning to vote for the R&R ticket. here are some portions that may be relevant to working stiffs like us raising families that you may not know about.
Third, we have not examined whether it would be politically realistic to reduce tax expenditures—provisions like the mortgage interest deduction, charitable giving, the tax benefit for health insurance, the EITC, and the child tax credit, etc,—by 58 percent for those earning less than $200,000, and to eliminate such features entirely for all households earning more than $200,000. These are extremely popular tax breaks, not just for the taxpayers who benefit directly from lower tax bills, but also from other parties who benefit indirectly such as charities and their constituents, or the home building industry. For instance, no recent major reform plan has proposed entirely eliminating the deduction for charitable contributions for higher-income individuals. If certain tax expenditures, say for charitable giving, mortgage interest, or health insurance were scaled back by the same percentage for everyone instead of eliminated, then the requirement of revenue neutrality would require even larger tax increases on middle- and lower-income households.
Fourth, it is unlikely to be technically and practically feasible to design the tax expenditure cuts to occur “starting at the top” as we have assumed. If it is not, then any revenue-neutral plan will be even less progressive than we have estimated and will generate larger tax cuts for high-income households and larger net tax increases for low- and middle-income households. In our analysis we have assumed that tax expenditures could be eliminated exclusively for high-income groups (but not for lower-income groups) to illustrate the most progressive possible distribution of tax burdens possible given the specified tax rates. In practice, such a policy would require that these benefits be phased out over some income range, increasing marginal tax rates in that range. Our analysis implicitly assumes that these benefits would be phased out immediately and in full as a household’s income rises from $200,000 to $200,001—this would create an enormous tax on that particular dollar of income, which is one reason why such a plan is not likely to implemented. More realistically, benefits would probably be phased-out more gradually, which would mean raising less revenue from high-income households and an even larger tax shift to lower- and middle-income households.
Taken together, these qualifications suggest that a reform that cuts income tax rates uniformly, preserves individual income tax expenditures aimed at saving and investment, and makes up the revenue by cutting individual income tax expenditures will wind up shifting the tax burden to middle- and lower-income households and away from high-income households.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
if romney really signs on to the ryan plan in all its glory, it's going to be like the french revolution. the second amendment is going to become really consequential.
If the recent opinion polls are any indication, you have no cause for worry!
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Hellsangel wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
if romney really signs on to the ryan plan in all its glory, it's going to be like the french revolution. the second amendment is going to become really consequential.
If the recent opinion polls are any indication, you have no cause for worry!
better to be paranoid and do what it takes till 11/6.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Hellsangel wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
if romney really signs on to the ryan plan in all its glory, it's going to be like the french revolution. the second amendment is going to become really consequential.
If the recent opinion polls are any indication, you have no cause for worry!
More importantly, the SaamiYaar has given the ruling.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Paul Ryan is a KKK+Looter+right wing extremist all rolled into one in a respectful clothing called Congressmen.
The 71 yr old is right. They have been paying 7 to 12% of their pay into SS and Medicare for 30+ years into what I will call a Govt. pension and post-retirement health care plan. PERIOD.
To call that a tax burden is nothing but taking a Loan (remember the Govt treasury takes this SS+Medicare from the Health and Human resources and places a "I Owe You" note in the Gajana Box") and refusing to pay back the loan. Is it any different than what Madoff did ? No wonder Ryan loves the "plan". Hope there is another bill introduced to cut off ALL life-time health insurance and pension for all congressmen once they leave congress.
This dude whose great grandfather, grandfather, and father died at 59, 57. 56 is the one likely to have BP and cardiac arrest and not live to 71. No amount of gymming in the Congress is likely to help - if one follows the latest medical research. All that exercise can only help improve his qualifty of life and looting, and not prolong the life.
As they say in desh...his fate was sealed when he was born to his parents and into that family. So he BETTER protect SS and medicare.
The 71 yr old is right. They have been paying 7 to 12% of their pay into SS and Medicare for 30+ years into what I will call a Govt. pension and post-retirement health care plan. PERIOD.
To call that a tax burden is nothing but taking a Loan (remember the Govt treasury takes this SS+Medicare from the Health and Human resources and places a "I Owe You" note in the Gajana Box") and refusing to pay back the loan. Is it any different than what Madoff did ? No wonder Ryan loves the "plan". Hope there is another bill introduced to cut off ALL life-time health insurance and pension for all congressmen once they leave congress.
This dude whose great grandfather, grandfather, and father died at 59, 57. 56 is the one likely to have BP and cardiac arrest and not live to 71. No amount of gymming in the Congress is likely to help - if one follows the latest medical research. All that exercise can only help improve his qualifty of life and looting, and not prolong the life.
As they say in desh...his fate was sealed when he was born to his parents and into that family. So he BETTER protect SS and medicare.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
what galls me is that cutting SS and medicare despite folks paying into it their entire lives is a-ok because they are "entitlement" programs, but continuing a low tax rate for income earned by capital gains and dividends is not entitlement. it's truly shameful that the old man was handcuffed and taken away. shameful.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:what galls me is that cutting SS and medicare despite folks paying into it their entire lives is a-ok because they are "entitlement" programs, but continuing a low tax rate for income earned by capital gains and dividends is not entitlement. it's truly shameful that the old man was handcuffed and taken away. shameful.
I am all for disbanding the social security system - for those who start working from NOW ON. That still does not solve the problem of finding money to pay all those current/past payers. With the govt. in deficit, it can only tax the people to pay the past payers - wait... Ryan is against that as well.
So here it is. Put a inheritance tax of 80% to pay the past payers. Looks like Ryan-Romney will follow the Madoff Model and loot the entire Pension system.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
the problem is that for too long the public has let the GoP even define the terms of the argument. i don't understand why a program into which the citizenry has been paying money out of their paychecks, and from which they were promised a benefit is allowed to be called an "entitlement". an entitlement is when you pay nothing, but get a benefit. contrast this with capital gains and dividend income which is taxed at a lower rate. why isn't the difference between the tax rate of ordinary income and dividend and capital gains income called an entitlement?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
a very detailed article in the new yorker about the keys to understanding paul ryan. forget the flashy 16 pointers and the sound bites. read this. paul ryan is a very important man, way more important than the worthless automaton at the top of the ticket. we better get to know him.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
If someone's policies benefit the richest 1% at the expense of the middle class and the poor, that is a potential political problem in a democracy. Ryan looks good and speaks well, but his policies are all about redistribution of wealth, only from the middle class and the poor to the rich.Impedimenta wrote:what does the above even mean? everyone in politics, esp with presidential office dreams are all serious policy guys and policies are almost always detrimental to "a sector" of the population. I am not sure how and why that plays in his candidacy.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
Corporate welfare = boost for job creation = good. Human welfare = encouraging laziness = bad.MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the problem is that for too long the public has let the GoP even define the terms of the argument. i don't understand why a program into which the citizenry has been paying money out of their paychecks, and from which they were promised a benefit is allowed to be called an "entitlement". an entitlement is when you pay nothing, but get a benefit. contrast this with capital gains and dividend income which is taxed at a lower rate. why isn't the difference between the tax rate of ordinary income and dividend and capital gains income called an entitlement?
In the last cycle, the GOP made much of Joe the Plumber and Obama's response to him about redistribution. Even McCain brought that up in the last debate. And now Romney has signed on to a rather explicit redistribution agenda. On multiple issues, the Romney-Ryan agenda is about redistributing money from the relatively poorer to the relatively richer. Give the ultra-rich huge tax cuts, funded by tax increases for everyone else, and by destroying medicare and passing on the burden to old people.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
surely means testing is coming for people of our generation to get SS and medicare benefits. i think that's inevitable and ready to accept it, but only if the govt has a tax policy for means testing for capital gains and dividend income.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
I think the whole premise of Republicans like Ryan trying to solve the impending problems of social security and medicare is a false one. They do not seek to fix those programs, they seek to destroy them. And they prove that amply when they seek to give bigger and bigger tax-cuts to the super rich, while reducing benefits for the middle class and the poor.MaxEntropy_Man wrote:surely means testing is coming for people of our generation to get SS and medicare benefits. i think that's inevitable and ready to accept it, but only if the govt has a tax policy for means testing for capital gains and dividend income.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Paul Ryan for VP?
panini press wrote:.... while reducing benefits for the middle class and the poor.
who inexplicably want to vote for them while depending on those very benefits.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
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