Diggy Raja delivers body blow to Thackerays (and assorted regionalists and regional chauvinists)

MUMBAI: Stung by Congress leader Digvijaya Singh's statement that Maharashtra's Thackeray family originally hailed from Bihar, Shiv Sena executive president Uddhav Thackeray hit back on Thursday, saying Digvijaya was "mad".

"That man (Digvijaya Singh) is mad," an irritated Thackeray burst out to reporters who questioned him on the issue.

The Congress leader, however, was only quoting from a book penned by Uddhav's grandfather, Prabodhankar Thackeray, father of Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray.

Uddhav admitted that although his grandfather's book, "Mazhi Jeevangatha" (An Autobiography), does mention that the Thackerays' origins trace back to Bihar, it did not refer to his family, but only to the clan of Thakres.

"What he (Prabodhankar Thackeray) has written does not refer to my family, but to the entire Thakre community which lives in Bihar," Uddhav claimed.

Uddhav accused Singh of making "attempts to exploit the issue politically". He was at pains to dismiss the matter, which had come to a head after he had demanded that Bihari migrants entering Maharashtra in search of work ought to be given special permits.

Singh, on his part, has gone hammer and tongs at the Thackerays, flashing copies of the book, first published in 1995 when the Shiv Sena-Bharatiya Janata Party alliance was ruling Maharashtra.

The book, now enjoying wide publicity, has also emerged as a rallying point for anti-Thackeray lobbies.

The Congress leader pointed to sections of the book - highlighted for effect - that told of Maharashtra's numero uno political family and its origins in Bihar.

According to the author, the Thackerays originally hailed from Magadh in Bihar and migrated to Bhopal and later to Pune, in search of employment opportunities.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Uddhav-says-Digvijaya-is-mad-never-mind-what-granddad-wrote/articleshow/16279692.cms

i posted a bit more to clarify your math q the other day. did you see it?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i posted a bit more to clarify your math q the other day. did you see it?

i did yes. many thanks.

Rashmun wrote:According to the author [the thackeray daddy], the Thackerays originally hailed from Magadh in Bihar and migrated to Bhopal and later to Pune, in search of employment opportunities.

ROFL!

What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well said....

anybody who comes to maharashtra and becomes a maharashtrian by culture is a marathi .

the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis .

anyway i am not opposed to them coming to maharashtra ..

ashdoc wrote:the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis.

ya ya, blame the victim. well, how would you know they do not convert to marathi culture? it is not that they have a choice in this matter. nor did the thakres of yore who migrated to maharashtra. the situation might be slightly different now because of shorter distances (faster connectivity) and assimilation might take longer or might never happen. nobody likes to assimilate by choice -- assimilation is a messy business that disrupts one's cultural status quo. blaming someone for NOT assimilating is retrograde because you are, in reality, blaming the changed times, the changed realities, modernity. there is cruelty in your thinking -- these are migrant workers. you call them at will, kick them out at will (when there is no work). and to add insult to injury, you blame these poor people for not assimilating.

ashdoc wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well said....

anybody who comes to maharashtra and becomes a maharashtrian by culture is a marathi .

the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis .

anyway i am not opposed to them coming to maharashtra ..

I have inside information that these "Biharis" who are causing problems in Maharshtra are actually kids of PakiSatani - Bangla Biharis who sneaked into India after 1971.

That is why they get along so well with the illegal Beggardeshis in Maharashtra.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
blaming someone for NOT assimilating is retrograde

i am not blaming anyone for not assimilating . nor am i opposed to biharis coming to maharashtra .

i am only telling the difference between thackerays and real biharis . thackerays may have come from bihar long ago but are assimilated now and are marathis .

ashdoc wrote:i am not blaming anyone for not assimilating . nor am i opposed to biharis coming to maharashtra .

i am only telling the difference between thackerays and real biharis . thackerays may have come from bihar long ago but are assimilated now and are marathis .

OK. i misread you in that case.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

ashdoc wrote:the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis.

you blame these poor people for not assimilating.

Yes, I am blaming them. Biharis or Telugus or Tamils coming to Maharashtra to live for years must learn the language and use the language in daily life and send their children to learn Marathi. Otherwise they should be kicked out of Maharashtra.

Kayalvizhi wrote:Biharis or Telugus or Tamils coming to Maharashtra to live for years

will maharashtra state guarantee them permanent employment? and subsidized housing so that they can invite their spouses and family? deala or no deala?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:Biharis or Telugus or Tamils coming to Maharashtra to live for years

will maharashtra state guarantee them permanent employment? and subsidized housing so that they can invite their spouses and family? deala or no deala?

Maharas gov does not guarantee perm employ for native Marathis. Same deal for naturalized Marathis. If Biharis don't like it go somewhere else.

Kayalvizhi wrote:Maharas gov does not guarantee perm employ for native Marathis. Same deal for naturalized Marathis. If Biharis don't like it go somewhere else.

these people are poor. they drive taxis and work in construction. the natives have outsourced these menial, bottom rung jobs to them. if you want them to assimilate, it is your moral imperative to provide them a secure environment (permanent jobs and subsidized housing so that they can bring their families). if you intend to keep them contractual (and you do!) then don't insist on assimilation. deala or no deala?

When we came to US, no one offered perem job or subsidized housing. We did not insists on speaking in Hindi as Biharis do in Mumbai. Will Biharis coming to US insist on doing everything in Hindi?

No one ask them to come to Mumbai.

Shirish Parkar of Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) correctly pointed out, “People from other states come to Maharashtra because of their need, not ours. It should be made imperative for them to learn Marathi.”

You can read the full spoeech etc at
http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0501.html

Kayalvizhi wrote:When we came to US, no one offered perem job or subsidized housing. We did not insists on speaking in Hindi as Biharis do in Mumbai. Will Biharis coming to US insist on doing everything in Hindi?

wrong. you are a liar. indian and pakistani cab drivers and magazine stall owners in the US live in indian ghettos and continue with their indian culture. ditto for the white collar immigrants. there is no "force" on them to assimilate. indians, UP/biharis, in the west indies still continue with their distinctive "indian community" hue and there is no "force" on them to assimilate. most assimilate "in time" because they have uprooted themselves from their motherland. the biharis have not uprooted themselves from bihar for their future in mumbai is uncertain. why are you forcing them to assimilate when you are not able to provide them the prospect of permanent employment and affordable housing?

sitting in the USA, for decades i imagine, you keep on carping tamil tamil tamil. have you made a single meaningful contribution in the threads about the upcoming US elections in this forum? you should be deported from the USA, pronto, for not assimilating.

I discuss American politics with fellow Americans. Most of you in this forum are not Americans but are from India and its occupied territories who afre not US citizens.

Kayalvizhi wrote:I discuss American politics with fellow Americans. Most of you in this forum are not Americans but are from India and its occupied territories who afre not US citizens.

why don't you discuss eelam with eelam supporters too? most of us in this forum are not eelam-ites but are from india who are US citizens.

because india is responsible for eelam massacres

but the biharis have not uprooted themselves from bihar for their future in mumbai is uncertain. why are you forcing them to assimilate when you are not able to provide them the prospect of permanent employment and affordable housing in maharashtra?

Kayalvizhi wrote:because india is responsible for eelam massacres

>>>And your Captain?

Kayalvizhi wrote:When we came to US, no one offered perem job or subsidized housing. We did not insists on speaking in Hindi as Biharis do in Mumbai. Will Biharis coming to US insist on doing everything in Hindi?

when you cames to the USA, you insists airlines makes announcement in tamil, you proud london metro display in tamil, you happies singapore airlines serve tamil food, you engry mc donald not advertize in tamil (but does in hindi). tamil tamil tamil too much you always always insists. liar.

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well , i have started this topic ( from the link you gave ) on another forum---

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/politics-society/41432-tamil-fulminations-against-alleged-hindian-arrogance.html

ashdoc, why did you get banned from echarcha?

wow, your post got 7 pages of responses there already.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ashdoc, why did you get banned from echarcha?

echarcha is owned by my cousin sunit katkar . like me he is marathi .

between 2009 and 2011 echarcha was largely dominated by me and i used to start maximum number of threads and also my movie reviews were quite popular . also i used to post on military and defence related matters .

this fact was resented by a moderator ( ID--amthalal ) who funds money for running echarcha and is very influential there .
obviously since he funds money for running echarcha he thinks it is his baap-ki-jagir . he is gujarati and always hated maharashtrians and the fact that a maharashtrian was dominating echarcha was anathema to him .

now for the past one year my cousin has left the administratorship of echarcha because he got busy in some personal matters . during this time amthalal saw his chance .

someone started creating dupe IDs and abusing members on echarcha . amthalal saw his chance and poisoned everyone's ears that i was doing the gaali galoch . my own cousin sunit katkar was told that i was doing the gaali galoch and he came and gave maa behen gaalis to me . in reality the person who was doing the gaali galoch had the ID mallu rider . he is a muslim from kerala and was incensed that islam is regularly abused on echarcha . actually amthalal had access to IP logs and could have told the truth about mallu rider . but he deliberately told false information to my cousin . obviously the fact that my own cousin loaded me with gaalis of maa behen variety was distressing for me . i began to think about leaving echarcha .

later amthalal asked one of his chamchas ( ID--Dirty ) to abuse me . when i abused him back one of the moderators ( ID--jaispeaks ) began to delete my abuses while keeping dirty's abuses intact . later jaispeaks himself began to abuse me . so finally realising that the whole mods/admin panel of echarcha was against me , i left the forum .

after i left an ID ( ungalibaaz ) again started abusing echarchans . once again amthalal blamed this attack on me !! actually i had nothing to do with either the attacks of mallu rider or ungalibaaz . the real reason for blaming me is jealousy of my success and jealousy of my dominance of echarcha . this time i was banned .

the fact is that with my cousin no longer at the helm of echarcha ( though he is still its owner ) the mods/admin panel wants his marathi relatives like me out too . thats the real reason .

my god! what a fantabulous story! thanks very much for taking the time to explain in detail. good you joined such (too). i appreciate your posts. i am now glad that mumbai did not secede to gujarat. though my admiration for jeh has not gone down, i'm glad i've got to see, first hand, the jingoistic side of some gujjus. i'm also convinced now that moderators are the bane of most forums. yuck @ mods.

ashdoc wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well said....

anybody who comes to maharashtra and becomes a maharashtrian by culture is a marathi .

the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis .

anyway i am not opposed to them coming to maharashtra ..

when thackerays first came to maharashtra from bihar it is fair to assume that they did not start speaking marathi straightaway. some of them with natural linguistic abilities may have started speaking marathi relatively quickly but it is probable that a fair number of the first generation thackerays who migrated from bihar did not speak marathi at all or could only speak a few words and phrases of it. it is only the descendants of the first generation thackeray immigrants to maharashtra (born and brought up in maharashtra) who learnt how to speak proficiently in marathi.

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

Tamils have been living in Sri Lanka for centuries. Yet many if not most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not know Sinhala which is the language of the vast majority of Sri Lankans. Is this fair? is this just?

Rashmun wrote:

ashdoc wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well said....

anybody who comes to maharashtra and becomes a maharashtrian by culture is a marathi .

the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis .

anyway i am not opposed to them coming to maharashtra ..

when thackerays first came to maharashtra from bihar it is fair to assume that they did not start speaking marathi straightaway. some of them with natural linguistic abilities may have started speaking marathi relatively quickly but it is probable that a fair number of the first generation thackerays who migrated from bihar did not speak marathi at all or could only speak a few words and phrases of it. it is only the descendants of the first generation thackeray immigrants to maharashtra (born and brought up in maharashtra) who learnt how to speak proficiently in marathi.

so what ??

that does not mean thackerays are not marathis now . they certainly are marathis .

ashdoc wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

ashdoc wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well said....

anybody who comes to maharashtra and becomes a maharashtrian by culture is a marathi .

the ones coming from bihar today dont convert to marathi culture and remain biharis .

anyway i am not opposed to them coming to maharashtra ..

when thackerays first came to maharashtra from bihar it is fair to assume that they did not start speaking marathi straightaway. some of them with natural linguistic abilities may have started speaking marathi relatively quickly but it is probable that a fair number of the first generation thackerays who migrated from bihar did not speak marathi at all or could only speak a few words and phrases of it. it is only the descendants of the first generation thackeray immigrants to maharashtra (born and brought up in maharashtra) who learnt how to speak proficiently in marathi.

so what ??

that does not mean thackerays are not marathis now . they certainly are marathis .

if regionalism chauvinism would have been alive at the time the thackerays first arrived in Maharashtra (when most of the first generation Thackerays in Maharashtra did not speak Marathi) the thackerays too would have been thrashed and asked to obtain special permits to work and intimidated on a regular basis. this never happened to them from what we know based on the autobiography of Bal Thackeray's father.
the point is that if someone from bihar comes temporarily to maharashtra for work then it is unfair to ask him to get special permits and insist through physical intimidation and hooliganism that he speak Marathi when he is easily able to get by without speaking Marathi. Of course if the bihari settles down in Maharashtra permanently and then has children then it is reasonable to expect the bihari's children to grow up knowing Marathi.

[quote="Rashmun"]

ashdoc wrote:
if regionalism chauvinism would have been alive at the time the thackerays first arrived in Maharashtra (when most of the first generation Thackerays in Maharashtra did not speak Marathi) the thackerays too would have been thrashed and asked to obtain special permits to work and intimidated on a regular basis. this never happened to them from what we know based on the autobiography of Bal Thackeray's father.
the point is that if someone from bihar comes temporarily to maharashtra for work then it is unfair to ask him to get special permits and insist through physical intimidation and hooliganism that he speak Marathi when he is easily able to get by without speaking Marathi. Of course if the bihari settles down in Maharashtra permanently and then has children then it is reasonable to expect the bihari's children to grow up knowing Marathi.

at that time there wasnt a perceived overload of migrants to maharashtra so there was no opposition to thackerays at that time .

so they became marathis .

now times are different . there is a perceived overload of migrants to maharashtra .

so the thackerays who are marathis now are opposed to it .

no , i am not supporting them on this issue . if you want to oppose them oppose by all means but not on the basis that they are not marathis and are biharis .

ashdoc wrote: at that time there wasnt a perceived overload of migrants to maharashtra so there was no opposition to thackerays at that time .

so you think! you know, there is a tribe of gujaratis in TN who still speak a quaint gujarati (they are the un-assimilated types) in addition to tamil. scholars tried retracing their point of origin in gujarat by the linguistic markers in their old-gujarati-speak. they found that the closest kin of that dialect was to be found in maharashtra! one interpretation is: their ancestors were from gujarat but moved or got pushed to maharashtra. so much for jingoism!

[quote="ashdoc"]

Rashmun wrote:

ashdoc wrote:
if regionalism chauvinism would have been alive at the time the thackerays first arrived in Maharashtra (when most of the first generation Thackerays in Maharashtra did not speak Marathi) the thackerays too would have been thrashed and asked to obtain special permits to work and intimidated on a regular basis. this never happened to them from what we know based on the autobiography of Bal Thackeray's father.
the point is that if someone from bihar comes temporarily to maharashtra for work then it is unfair to ask him to get special permits and insist through physical intimidation and hooliganism that he speak Marathi when he is easily able to get by without speaking Marathi. Of course if the bihari settles down in Maharashtra permanently and then has children then it is reasonable to expect the bihari's children to grow up knowing Marathi.

at that time there wasnt a perceived overload of migrants to maharashtra so there was no opposition to thackerays at that time .

so they became marathis .

now times are different . there is a perceived overload of migrants to maharashtra .

so the thackerays who are marathis now are opposed to it .

no , i am not supporting them on this issue . if you want to oppose them oppose by all means but not on the basis that they are not marathis and are biharis .

in my opinion the phrase 'overload of migrants to Maharashtra' would only be used by someone who suffers from the disease of regional chauvinism. i am not accusing you of suffering from this disease; it is possible that others--and not you--perceive this 'overload'. India is a free country and anyone is permitted to settle anywhere. Physical intimidation and thrashing of immigrants to Maharashtra cannot be tolerated. One important reason for this is that this will result in physical intimidation and thrashing of Maharashtrians settled in other states.

And another point: immigrants to Mahrashtra are not just from Bihar, so why are the Thackerays insisting on special work permits only for Biharis? It used to be case a few decades ago that the Thackerays would thrash South Indians; now the target has become Biharis. The overall strategy seems to be to win power through inculcating hatred based on regionalism and regional chauvinism.

Bottomline is that the Thackerays and their kind are a menace to the unity and integrity of India and can legitimately be accused of behavior akin to treason.

another point to note is that the density of population (people per square km) in Maharashtra is less than the national average and significantly less than the same figure for U.P.,Bihar, or TN.

Rashmun wrote:
And another point: immigrants to Mahrashtra are not just from Bihar, so why are the Thackerays insisting on special work permits only for Biharis? It used to be case a few decades ago that the Thackerays would thrash South Indians; now the target has become Biharis.

reason for this is that the hindutva agenda is already hijacked by shiv sena . raj has to carve a niche for himself---so he has to find new targets and finds them in the hapless bhaiyyas and biharis .

ashdoc wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:What body blow? Thackaray's ancestors might have come from Bihar but they have become Maharashtrians over the years.

Hindi and Hindian Arrogance Test our Patience

http://www.tamiltribune.com/10/0401.html

well , i have started this topic ( from the link you gave ) on another forum---

[url=http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/politics-society/41432-tamil-fulminations-against-alleged-hindian-arrogance.html

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/politics-society/41432-tamil-fulminations-against-alleged-hindian-arrogance.html[/quote[/url]]



Its getting huge response there (over 150 replies). Thanks

Kayalvizhi wrote:

Its getting huge response there (over 150 replies). Thanks

TS can do this single-handedly...

Kayalvizhi wrote:Its getting huge response there (over 150 replies). Thanks

yaaaa, much more than facebook. let's go register there and create more pandemonium in that thread. deala or no deala?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:Its getting huge response there (over 150 replies). Thanks

your introductory post is also getting HUGE-ilarious responses.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/introductions-greetings/41500-introducing-kayal.html