A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

by Rishi Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:29 pm

http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?id=60833&sid=1AXT&ext=PDF&lcl=A-shared-Y-chromosomal-heritage-between-Muslims-and-Hindus-in-India.pdf&usr=EternalWhiner&doc=102522717&key=key-yfzd3stqlfn3jiuwj01

by truthbetold Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:16 pm

India Muslims are from basic indian stock except for a group that consists of Middle East, turkey and Persian heritage. So it should not surprise that Y chromosome results.

by Kayalvizhi Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:44 pm

A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of ~~India~~ northern plains of South asia

by truthbetold Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:50 pm

Kayak,
You have to improve your horizons. Muslims in tn share Y chromosomes with your father. Is your father some kind of North Indian?

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:51 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of ~~India~~ northern plains of South asia

Is it your contention that Nawabs of Arcot were not Tamilians?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:53 pm

it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

by Rishi Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of ~~India~~ northern plains of South asia

Is it your contention that Nawabs of Arcot were not Tamilians?

Yes in my opinion.

They were outsiders, agents of NI Muslim rulers. They trace their lineage to Nizam, Turks etc.

The Nawabs treated local Tamils as slaves.

IMO an Anglo-Indian guy in Chennai is more Tamil than these Nawabs of Arcot.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:59 pm

http://www.indowindow.com/akhbar/article.php?article=132&category=4&issue=19

Long before a powerful sultanate came to be set up in Delhi and its environs, trading groups from West Asia brought Islam to western and southern India through maritime commerce, and it was an extension of the same process that eventually brought that religion to what is today the most populous Muslim country in the world, namely Indonesia. But this Islam, which is linked intimately to the Indian Ocean and its trade, seems to have a difficult time penetrating the consciousness even of exhibition-makers, museum-keepers and self-styled Islamologists.

Of these communities, the Mappila Muslims of Kerala are relatively well-known, and it is only the recent elevation to the country’s highest office of A P J Abdul Kalam that has brought some popular attention to the Tamil-speaking Muslims of the south-eastern coast. Known as Maraikkayars, from the Tamil word marakkalam (meaning boat), and distinct from the Urdu-speaking Muslims of the Arcot area, one can find traces of this community in the area running from Rameswaram to Kanyakumari from at least the ninth century, besides another nucleus in the area around Naguru.

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Rishi wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of ~~India~~ northern plains of South asia

Is it your contention that Nawabs of Arcot were not Tamilians?

Yes in my opinion.

They were outsiders, agents of NI Muslim rulers.

They trace their lineage to Nizam, Turks etc.

The Nawabs treated local Tamils as slaves.

The first nawab of Arcot may have been an agent of an NI ruler. But subsequent generations of nawabs who were born and brought up in TN should be considered Tamils.

If nawabs of Arcot treated Tamils as slaves then how come the present nawab is invited as chief guest on special occasions in various temples in TN including Kapaleeshwara.

The Nawabs donated land for the temple tank for Kapaleeshwara, helped build Parthasarathi and also helped fund various other temples in TN.

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:09 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

The destruction of the Hindu kingdom of Vijayanagar (which included almost all of present day SI) by the Bahamani rulers was perhaps the most ferocious conquest the Indian sub-continent has witnessed.

Many Telugus in particular have been permanently scarred by this conquest because the state language of these kings was Telugu.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:10 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

The destruction of the Hindu kingdom of Vijayanagar (which included almost all of present day SI) by the Bahamani rulers was perhaps the most ferocious conquest the Indian sub-continent has witnessed.

Many Telugus in particular have been permanently scarred by this conquest because the state language of these kings was Telugu.

what does this have to do with what i said about mappillas and marakkayars?

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

The destruction of the Hindu kingdom of Vijayanagar (which included almost all of present day SI) by the Bahamani rulers was perhaps the most ferocious conquest the Indian sub-continent has witnessed.

Many Telugus in particular have been permanently scarred by this conquest because the state language of these kings was Telugu.

what does this have to do with what i said about mappillas and marakkayars?

It is wrong to think that only (many, not all) NI's have been scarred by the Mohammedan conquest of India. SI's (many, not all) have also been scarred because of the ferocious destruction of Vijayanagar by the Bahamani rulers.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

The destruction of the Hindu kingdom of Vijayanagar (which included almost all of present day SI) by the Bahamani rulers was perhaps the most ferocious conquest the Indian sub-continent has witnessed.

Many Telugus in particular have been permanently scarred by this conquest because the state language of these kings was Telugu.

what does this have to do with what i said about mappillas and marakkayars?

It is wrong to think that only (many, not all) NI's have been scarred by the Mohammedan conquest of India. SI's (many, not all) have also been scarred because of the ferocious destruction of Vijayanagar by the Bahamani rulers.

the bahamani rulers were also from the north. the mappillas and the marakkayars had nothing to do with them.

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:27 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:it is historical fact that the tamilians of TN and kerala are of a different origin. their presence in india precedes by many centuries, the invaders of the north. they arrived on indian shores to trade, not conquer and pillage. they are variously known as mappillas and marakkayars and have more in common with the muslims of indonesia and malaysia.

incidentally the word mappiLLai in tamil and possibly malayalam means son-in-law. the name for the kerala muslims is not accidental. they arrived in india to trade but ended up staying and marrying the local hindu women and integrated into the local population. the name marakkayar has the same origin as mara-kalam or kattu-maram which means wooden raft, for that is how these folks arrived on TN and kerala shores. the english word catamaran, from tamil kattu-maram, has the same origin as marakkayar.

The destruction of the Hindu kingdom of Vijayanagar (which included almost all of present day SI) by the Bahamani rulers was perhaps the most ferocious conquest the Indian sub-continent has witnessed.

Many Telugus in particular have been permanently scarred by this conquest because the state language of these kings was Telugu.

what does this have to do with what i said about mappillas and marakkayars?

It is wrong to think that only (many, not all) NI's have been scarred by the Mohammedan conquest of India. SI's (many, not all) have also been scarred because of the ferocious destruction of Vijayanagar by the Bahamani rulers.

the bahamani rulers were also from the north. the mappillas and the marakkayars had nothing to do with them.

The Bahamani rulers were from Southern and Central India. They were ruling parts of present day Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, and also Maharashtra. We will agree I think that Maharashtra should be considered as neither NI nor SI.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:42 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahmani_Sultanate

The sultanate was founded on 3 August 1347 by governor Ala-ud-Din Hassan Bahman Shah, a Persian (Tajik) [3] descent from Badakhshan, who revolted against the Sultan of Delhi, Muhammad bin Tughlaq.

this is a very curious phenomenon. for all his interest in hinduism, islam, and synthesis, rashmun has never displayed any curiosity about an older islamic presence in kerala and TN that i have posted about. it's probably because this has no connections to north india or to urdu and is thoroughly indigenized with malayali and tamil cultures. the arcot nawabs and the nizams of hyderabad by contrast have demonstrable connections to the north. you are so transparent rashmun.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:53 pm

there's an entire book on the subject. the political evolution of muslims in tamil nadu and madras.

from page 36 in the book:

while the urdu-speaking aristocratic-merchant elite were thus playing a dominating role in muslim politics of south india, dravidian language speaking muslims like tamil muslims, whose social and historical origins were different from the former, never possessed the ruling traits or mentality. they were in many respects and independent muslim group, more embedded in the tamil hindu cultural milieu, though they shared the same religion, islam, with urdu-speaking muslims. they seem not to have been much affected by british settlement in the south at the cost of the urdu-speaking muslims, for their social relationship with the latter was never very important and they rarely associated themselves with them in governing the country. for the tamil muslims, it was just a change of masters and they seem to have taken the least interest in who governed the country

.

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:15 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahmani_Sultanate

The sultanate was founded on 3 August 1347 by governor Ala-ud-Din Hassan Bahman Shah, a Persian (Tajik) [3] descent from Badakhshan, who revolted against the Sultan of Delhi, Muhammad bin Tughlaq.

this is a very curious phenomenon. for all his interest in hinduism, islam, and synthesis, rashmun has never displayed any curiosity about an older islamic presence in kerala and TN that i have posted about. it's probably because this has no connections to north india or to urdu and is thoroughly indigenized with malayali and tamil cultures. the arcot nawabs and the nizams of hyderabad by contrast have demonstrable connections to the north. you are so transparent rashmun.

Just take a look at the maps of the five Bahamani kingdoms which together destroyed Vijayanagar. You will find that some of them include parts of present day Karnataka and AP.

The fact remains that the first language of the vast majority of Muslims in south India is Urdu or some variant of Dakhini. I find it curious that you had to be educated about the existence of the southern Indian language Dakhini by a North Indian.

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:19 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahmani_Sultanate

The sultanate was founded on 3 August 1347 by governor Ala-ud-Din Hassan Bahman Shah, a Persian (Tajik) [3] descent from Badakhshan, who revolted against the Sultan of Delhi, Muhammad bin Tughlaq.

this is a very curious phenomenon. for all his interest in hinduism, islam, and synthesis, rashmun has never displayed any curiosity about an older islamic presence in kerala and TN that i have posted about. it's probably because this has no connections to north india or to urdu and is thoroughly indigenized with malayali and tamil cultures. the arcot nawabs and the nizams of hyderabad by contrast have demonstrable connections to the north. you are so transparent rashmun.

And the Vijayanagar kingdom was destroyed in the 16th century. In other words for three centuries the Bahamani rulers were ruling independently.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahmani_Sultanate

The sultanate was founded on 3 August 1347 by governor Ala-ud-Din Hassan Bahman Shah, a Persian (Tajik) [3] descent from Badakhshan, who revolted against the Sultan of Delhi, Muhammad bin Tughlaq.

this is a very curious phenomenon. for all his interest in hinduism, islam, and synthesis, rashmun has never displayed any curiosity about an older islamic presence in kerala and TN that i have posted about. it's probably because this has no connections to north india or to urdu and is thoroughly indigenized with malayali and tamil cultures. the arcot nawabs and the nizams of hyderabad by contrast have demonstrable connections to the north. you are so transparent rashmun.

Just take a look at the maps of the five Bahamani kingdoms which together destroyed Vijayanagar. You will find that some of them include parts of present day Karnataka and AP.

The fact remains that the first language of the vast majority of Muslims in south India is Urdu or some variant of Dakhini. I find it curious that you had to be educated about the existence of the southern Indian language Dakhini by a North Indian.

i find it curious that you refuse to even acknowledge the existence of a rich and older islamic culture in TN and kerala that has no connections to northindia or urdu.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:28 pm

cheraman juma masjid, the oldest mosque in india, located at kodunganallur kerala:

by Guest Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahmani_Sultanate

The sultanate was founded on 3 August 1347 by governor Ala-ud-Din Hassan Bahman Shah, a Persian (Tajik) [3] descent from Badakhshan, who revolted against the Sultan of Delhi, Muhammad bin Tughlaq.

this is a very curious phenomenon. for all his interest in hinduism, islam, and synthesis, rashmun has never displayed any curiosity about an older islamic presence in kerala and TN that i have posted about. it's probably because this has no connections to north india or to urdu and is thoroughly indigenized with malayali and tamil cultures. the arcot nawabs and the nizams of hyderabad by contrast have demonstrable connections to the north. you are so transparent rashmun.

Just take a look at the maps of the five Bahamani kingdoms which together destroyed Vijayanagar. You will find that some of them include parts of present day Karnataka and AP.

The fact remains that the first language of the vast majority of Muslims in south India is Urdu or some variant of Dakhini. I find it curious that you had to be educated about the existence of the southern Indian language Dakhini by a North Indian.

i find it curious that you refuse to even acknowledge the existence of a rich and older islamic culture in TN and kerala that has no connections to northindia or urdu.

I am not denying it. It is simply that I do not know enough (as yet) about this aspect of Indian history. And so I cannot comment on it.

I know though that in the 14th century the famous Moroccan traveller and explorer Ibn Batuta made his way from North India to South India. He spent some time in Lakshwadeep and because of his knowledge of Koran he was appointed a judge there. He spent a few months as a judge in Lakshwadeep (where the population in his time and also in our time is almost 100% muslim) before being struck again by the traveling itch.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:32 am

Rishi wrote:http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?id=60833&sid=1AXT&ext=PDF&lcl=A-shared-Y-chromosomal-heritage-between-Muslims-and-Hindus-in-India.pdf&usr=EternalWhiner&doc=102522717&key=key-yfzd3stqlfn3jiuwj01

There is no such thing as original Muslim chromosomal heritage. Turks, Persians, Ujbeks, UP mians, etc., had their own identity before the pieceful went there. Persian architecture, for example, is Persian. Islamists erroneously call it Islamic. Arab numerals are hardly Arabic.

Muslims of Persia, Central Asia, Turkey, Egypt, etc., were pagans before becoming camel-o-philic. I don't think they will all freeze themselves in the 7th century forever.

Coming back to chromosomes, Persian and Indian mixing isn't all that unusual. People living around Nile, Euphrates, Tigris, Indus, etc., were happily Khajuraho-ing with each other without being pieceful.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:25 pm

Sandilya,
What you wrote probably contains few grains of truth. Why don't you state your opinions directly instead of trying to disguise them in sandilya speak. There may be few readers who may not be able to decode all your pieceful messages.

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A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

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Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India

Re: A shared Y-chromosomal heritage between Muslims and Hindus of India