Obama's gun control proposals -- what do you think?

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:43 pm

A few weeks ago, we had discussions here about the possibility of some actual executive and / or legislative action as a result of the Newtown massacre. I was skeptical of any real change happening, but it looks at least for the moment like Obama is determined to try. On the day of the event, his press secretary said the wrong thing, but in the wake of the tragedy, the administration has made some good moves. Here is a summary of his proposals: http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/obama-gun-control-plan-numbers/story?id=18229809

What do you think of the proposed changes? Which proposals do you like / dislike? What is the likelihood that any of this will be implemented?

by Hellsangel Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:44 pm

panini press wrote:What is the likelihood that any of this will be implemented?

Ha ha ha

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:46 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:What is the likelihood that any of this will be implemented?
Ha ha ha

You can laugh, but I think there is a small but real chance that the NRA's lobbying for the firearms industry won't succeed this time. At least the executive orders will go through. If in addition to that we can get the ban on high-capacity magazines, that will mark a big improvement from the status quo.

by Sandee2020 Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:53 pm

Only gun control will not solve the problem of guns misuse. First control the mentally ill who have access to these weapons and use it to kill humans.

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:58 pm

Sandee2020 wrote:Only gun control will not solve the problem of guns misuse. First control the mentally ill who have access to these weapons and use it to kill humans.

Yes, and that's why improvements to mental health infrastructure are part of the proposed package:

... the White House is asking Congress to spend on efforts to improve mental health, law enforcement, school security and the federal background check system...

--- $50 million to train over 5,000 mental health professionals who work with youth.

--- $40 million to help school districts cooperate with outside organizations on mental health referrals.

--- $25 million to develop "innovative state-based strategies supporting young people ages 16 to 25 with mental health or substance abuse issues."

--- $25 million to "offer students mental health services for trauma or anxiety, conflict resolution programs, and other school-based violence prevention strategies."

--- $15 million to train teachers and others who work with kids to recognize and respond to signs of mental illness.

by goodcitizn Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 pm

panini press wrote:
Sandee2020 wrote:Only gun control will not solve the problem of guns misuse. First control the mentally ill who have access to these weapons and use it to kill humans.
Yes, and that's why improvements to mental health infrastructure are part of the proposed package:

... the White House is asking Congress to spend on efforts to improve mental health, law enforcement, school security and the federal background check system...

--- $50 million to train over 5,000 mental health professionals who work with youth.

--- $40 million to help school districts cooperate with outside organizations on mental health referrals.

--- $25 million to develop "innovative state-based strategies supporting young people ages 16 to 25 with mental health or substance abuse issues."

--- $25 million to "offer students mental health services for trauma or anxiety, conflict resolution programs, and other school-based violence prevention strategies."

--- $15 million to train teachers and others who work with kids to recognize and respond to signs of mental illness.

You have listed most of the areas where Obama's plan will definitely help provided Congress buys off on the budget and its allocation. For example, 90% of the $4.45 billion is allocated to add 15,000 cops --over $250,000 per cop! That said, we need more cop presence particularly in high crime areas in the major metros where gun-related homicides are due to gangs and drug dealers. I know of some areas in Chicago where even cops are reluctant to go.

This is an elaborate subject where the pros & cons of the 2nd Amendment rights, Fire Arms Protection Act, Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act etc., can be debated for hours. In the past NRA has been very successful in limiting research and research findings involving violence due to guns by lobbying against budget allocation for such studies. ATF has also needed strong leadership. You can easily find many articles in these areas.

Here are a couple to ponder: http://www.ibtimes.com/gun-violence-research-could-be-unlocked-obama-proposals-1020388

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9807174/New-NRA-anti-gun-control-advert-attacks-elitist-hypocrite-Obama.html

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:08 pm

I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

by goodcitizn Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:10 pm

panini press wrote:I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

What did you think of NRA's new ad video? These guys are relentless.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:14 pm

panini press wrote:I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

The NRA will lose out... just like the Tobacco Industry and the AMA. The cops and the Mayors are against NRA - which is being successfully painted as Smith & Wesson Lobby.

It will take time, but NRA will become Non-Relevant Assholes in a decade.

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:14 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
panini press wrote:I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

What did you think of NRA's new ad video? These guys are relentless.

I think it will be counterproductive. NRA is overreacting -- and overreaching -- because they are surprised about the scope of Obama's proposal. People will see it as too negative, and it will hurt the NRA more than it will hurt Obama.

by Idéfix Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:17 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
panini press wrote:I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

The NRA will lose out... just like the Tobacco Industry and the AMA. The cops and the Mayors are against NRA - which is being successfully painted as Smith & Wesson Lobby.

It will take time, but NRA will become Non-Relevant Assholes in a decade.

NRA is the Smith & Wesson lobby. They work for the firearms industry. According to an article I read recently, more than 70% of NRA members support mandatory background checks, but NRA opposes it. Why? Because mandatory background checks might hurt the revenues of the firearms industry. (I posted the article a week or two ago).

by goodcitizn Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:23 am

panini press wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
panini press wrote:I was surprised to learn that the NRA and the firearms industry successfully lobbied against research into the causes of gun violence. This is no different from the tobacco industry's shenanigans a few decades ago.

What did you think of NRA's new ad video? These guys are relentless.
I think it will be counterproductive. NRA is overreacting -- and overreaching -- because they are surprised about the scope of Obama's proposal. People will see it as too negative, and it will hurt the NRA more than it will hurt Obama.

I hope you are right. Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment) through its Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) for lobbying against stricter gun control acts. It continues to carry a lot of political clout with the republicans, especially the far right. Obama has an uphill battle in his hands with his proposed plan. Hope he does a better job with it than Obamacare, his achilles heel.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:40 am

goodcitizn wrote:Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment)

i see.

by goodcitizn Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:03 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment)
i see.

Good catch! Obama's gun control proposals -- what do you think? 459784477

by Idéfix Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:47 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment)
i see.

You can't... Obama's gun control proposals -- what do you think? 6351639973_555db09687_b

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:14 am

panini press wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment)
i see.
You can't...

that's precisely what i said about you, long ago. i must have hurt you. i didn't intend to, but i meant what i said.

by Idéfix Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:19 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
panini press wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:Over the years IRA's mission has shifted from gun education & firearms safety to gun rights (as part of the 2nd amendment)
i see.
You can't...
that's precisely what i said about you, long ago. i must have hurt you. i didn't intend to, but i meant what i said.

Oh, you did? Sorry I forgot about that. Perhaps it's the march of time, but lately you have been consistently missing the big picture, hence that visual.

by goodcitizn Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:20 am

Here's David Horsey's political commentary in Los Angeles Times. Good stuff.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-obamas-gun-control-20130115,0,6816836.story

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